The most Limited Content: Low-Level Dungeons

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

If you don’t care about other players you should go play a solo game then or specifically que for duties that you want to play. this game is about community not looking out just for number one.

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Alternatively, Square can rework their level sync mechanic to allow the use of higher level abilities in lower level content. Thus, making it less boring for higher level players to slog through them, and making them more willing to stay. I care about other players sure. Just not enough to stay in a dungeon that forces me into a two button rotation.

You can say this game is about whatever you want. I personally say its about enjoying yourself, as all games inherently are. Its okay that we think differently.

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We aren't talking about SE just giving high level players their full kits and letting them go ham in Copperbell Mines. We are talking about SE balancing the kit in low level content, so it can be used in a low level content.

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Too much effort for something that's ultimately unnecessary anyway. How exactly would you go about "balancing" something like WAR's Inner Release, for instance?

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

While the level sync isn't the greatest system, it achieves its job on creating parity for the most part, the only outlier being stat syncing. A better solution would be to maintain parity by having jobs learn a lot more of their skills at lower levels; I've always vouched for the idea that a job's core fundamentals should be finished by level 50, with 51+ stuff only being additions/changes/etc to the core rotation. Also every job should have aoe by level 15 tbh.

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If you give a job most of its skills at a low level, what are you going to give jobs at higher levels to prevent leveling from feeling pointless?

Haha last boss of Satasha has like a unique mechanic, but yeah lets put some stack mechanics in there too. CNJ wont have medica-anything and no Cure 3.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you give a job most of its skills at a low level, what are you going to give jobs at higher levels to prevent leveling from feeling pointless?

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You don't give anyone anything that isn't level appropriate. That's what I think the whole problem is. Ideally, everyone has all the skills meant for their level, but tuned to suit the dungeon level. It would be better for everyone that way. Thing is, I don't know if it's even possible.

I *do* know that learning a rotation is much simpler when the rotation isn't changing from one instance to the next based on missing abilities. It's still a little rough hitting buttons I'm used to using in L60s in L25s even though there's nothing there.

I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually, but I gotta admit I'd be happier if I didn't have to get used to it and my abilities weren't forever changing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you give a job most of its skills at a low level, what are you going to give jobs at higher levels to prevent leveling from feeling pointless?

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Do what they did for PLD in SHB.

At level 70, the core of your PLD rotation is complete. as you go up to level 80, you don't get any abilities that drastically change the PLD rotation; only moves that complement it and add to it OGCD wise (Intervene), or swap out current abilities with new things that still keep your rotation the same functionally (Confitteor, Attonement). None of the new PLD abilities change up the rotation; merely add to it as you level up. If they make it so that every job is functionally capable before 50, with all moves you learn past 50 to simply augment and complement the rotation as you level up, you preserve leveling being important while making a much funner kit to use at lower levels.

BLM is also similar. Your rotation is extremely similar to as it was at level 70 functionally, just with small additions or new functional elements to spice up the job while keeping its core gameplay the same.

heck, even Dancer is a great showcase for this. Your rotation is basically finished as soon as you unlock it, with most of the 60+ skills merely being extensions of current abilities or OGCDs to help supplement the job.

Also, being able to do max level content is a pretty powerful motivator for getting a job to 80 and making leveling important regardless of what moves I'd learn along the way, but that's just me.

TL:DR, front load the most important rotational skills below 50, move skills that complement the rotation and not drastically change it to after 50.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

We aren't talking about SE just giving high level players their full kits and letting them go ham in Copperbell Mines. We are talking about SE balancing the kit in low level content, so it can be used in a low level content. The dungeons would still go at the same pace - the difference would be that high level players would have access to more tools, and require to do a proper rotation for the same damage.

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So a mnk should be scaled down in sastasha so that GL4 does the same amount of damage as GL1? Sounds like a waste of developer resources.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Why is my full 4 man 70+ party shoved into Sastasha when queueing for Leveling roullette, then? There is no lowlevel newbie to help. It's just needlessly frustrating.

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becuase it's random? blame rngesus. you get a bigger exp bonus from finishing the roulette than you would for getting mt. gulg - BUT the exp in total gained works out to pretty much the same amount.

Also I get Mt. gulg sometimes in levelling roulette and the amount of people that bounce immediately from there shows that sometimes people don't want to do high level content either with their whole tool kit. so it's lose lose lol

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Too much effort for something that's ultimately unnecessary anyway. How exactly would you go about "balancing" something like WAR's Inner Release, for instance?

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Does that matter though in the long run? If this game already want veterans side by side with rookies, then it should make the full deal out of it. I would rather have less bonusses and more actual gameplay. I mean, I love Red Mage for what it is: The gameplay. If I want it for the bonus only and watch a bar and a number going up, I could play a numbers game.



Story-wise for those newbies it is also fitting: Warriors of light - in plural. It nowhere says all the player characters must all be level and skill restricted newbies, it says "Duty Finder" and not "Equally levelled players" and as said before, I would not be confused if high-levelled players use their skills. It's more the opposite: I would be confused why a RDM can not raise or heal or do even a real melee rotation or when a White Mage with glowing weapons restricts him- or herself to the very basic first aid skills and you die from "something" you have skills for in your bar but greyed out.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

becuase it's random? blame rngesus. you get a bigger exp bonus from finishing the roulette than you would for getting mt. gulg - BUT the exp in total gained works out to pretty much the same amount.

Also I get Mt. gulg sometimes in levelling roulette and the amount of people that bounce immediately from there shows that sometimes people don't want to do high level content either with their whole tool kit. so it's lose lose lol

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So what you're saying is, there is no advantage to getting low level content with a high level party. You earn the same amount of XP to get through a much more boring and frustrating experience.

Seems unnecessary. If you're not helping any low level player why should you be subjected to the slog of low level dungeons? The possible dungeons should take into account the level bracket the characters are in.