Dear Naoki Yoshida and the Battle Development Team,

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

In fact ASTs have been complaining about 1 nuke + 1 dot for the whole expac. Stop by the healer forums a little more often?

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Read my post properly. I said "a gigantic wave". Some asts complaining on the healer forums isn't the same as reddit and the general forums here being flooded with complaints related to healers. This is what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well they probably wouldn't struggle with red mage. And yeah, I wouldn't call it super complex. But there's more to it than you say. When to use M2 so you can weave, and some other nuances.

But yeah it's not that complex.

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No. It's not complex at all. Anyone who says it is complex is trying to give it more gameplay value than it has, or doesn't actually understand what it is like to play with a proper dps rotation.

And before anyone asks yes I completely agree that the current state of whm and ast dps is incredibly dull. Again I'm emphasise that I'm not happy with sch's dps being brought down to that level, but I also understand that it was needed for balance without compromising the return of numbers per spell casted.

EDIT: yes I do understand that there is potential complexity involved with weaving dps along with healing, but I have seen a lot of arguments against the sch's nerfs being "lower lvl content is going to be boring with the new rotation" and that sort of environment isn't exactly where you would be doing the height of complexity with weaving dps and healing. Some people like to argue that even in instances where sch is doing nothing but dps the rotation is complex anyway...which is absolutely not the case.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Exactly this happened at the start of stormblood, too. People have short memories...

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Also at the beginning of ARR, and HW. This is completely normal, terrifyingly enough.

Again stop throwing around the word homogenized. That’s an out right lie, you have similar basic kits. That is not homogenization thats actual basic design functionality. Even if your dps is basically reskins thats one aspect that has nothing to do with your job identity.

Give feedback based on your opinion but stop presenting your opinion as hard fact. Because you do not have any hard facts. The build was from early April so two months old. Not a month. Thats plenty of time for a good bit to change. If its bad try to remember 5.1 is usually when things start to balance out. If you can pause the sky is falling and provide good feedback until then you stand a better chance of getting something accomplished.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The multiple AST/MCH/MNK/WHM/DRK threads would disagree.

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Wow, I though it was only healer this time, but this is the exact same jobs than during 4.0 and the whole Stormblood !
Just AST have joined the group lol.
But yeah, this is disturbing...

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Originally Posted by Dzian

simplified so many things that they find themselves backed into a corner and have no room to expand or grow all those cool ideas

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You can have complex rotations or complex fights. It's going to be disastrous to have both. The more important thing is that the rotations are fun and in 5.0 they look like they will be.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Highly predictable and as such incredibly easy to handle. Bosses never adapt or react to what a party does they just continue to follow that exact same script every time.

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Every fight in the game is a dance. Once it's muscle memory, of course it's "easy". It's foolish to proclaim to new players that fights are "easy", because they have not learned the dance yet and therefore it is still hard for them.

They could make fights random instead of scripted. I can only guess SE have their reasons for not doing that.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Tanking has been trivialized to the point where it's press a cooldown every 45-60 seconds and that's it

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Tanking has been trivialised where it's needed to be. Blocking and autos not working from all directions and stance dancing which was too difficult for newer tanks to grasp. The bigger picture of the game is these sort of things need trivialising.

There is still positioning enemies into player AOE areas, keeping caster enemies packed together, facing the boss away to prevent cleaving, minimising movement for DPS' so they can do their positionals with minimal disruption, doing large pulls, utility like Cover to save people, provoking and shirking. All of which a brand new tank may have no clue about. A lot of tanks don't know what tank swapping is.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

You could for example bring some classic FF status ailments into the picture. Slow paralyze, Blind, Oil. Confuse. and give jobs other areas to focus on other than dps..

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Perhaps you don't hunt. Stolas puts you to sleep forcing you to consider reapplying DoTs before that happens. Mirka freezes you if you don't silence it. If you don't do mechanics Okina does a stun-knockback and applies lightning debuffs that kill a lot of players. L60 Pale Rider reflects all damage back at you at one point and still kills L70s to this day. These hunt bosses all come from dungeons and raids.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

There's also jobs. and they pretty much are homogenized within there roles.

melee is the same you might expect a monk to excel at one on one but be lacking in aoe. where a dragoon may not be quite so strong or fast but with his longer range polearm might actually be able to crack several skulls at once

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Then you get the problem of metas, where people will only choose people who main one Job, and exclude the rest. The only way to stop that being a problem is either make all jobs share the same level and gear, or homogenization.

If people had to choose a Job appropriate to the situation, they might not be very familiar with all 17 of their rotations, so they'd have to heavily simplify them.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Please don't.
Considering that the playerbase had to ask for nerfs to steps of faith and cried about Shinryu normal mode at the start of the expansion I'm going to go ahead and say that the vocal majority of the playerbase has absolutely no clue what they are doing/talking about.

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Both are problems created by the devs themself.
Ff14 comes with so little challenge that a player can basicly reach Level 70 and don't have any idea how to play their class or the game itself.

Just look at the whole ARR Dungeon Design.
They implemented dungeon mechanics and dropped them right after the dungeon or two later.

I do not want them to turn the whole thing into a Battletoads, but they need to teach players certain strats and technique to improve themself and put challenges on their path. Otherwise they need to put everything into the "easy zone". What is basicly done with the game more and more.

I play R6 Siege and when you are new to the game, you suck so hard that you start to believe you are stupid.
But over time, you get better and better, become faster and situations that overwhelmed you become managable.
But this takes time and training.
But wrapping the player into softfoam all the time will not help anybody.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There is still positioning enemies into player AOE areas, keeping caster enemies packed together, facing the boss away to prevent cleaving, minimising movement for DPS' so they can do their positionals with minimal disruption, doing large pulls, utility like Cover to save people, provoking and shirking. All of which a brand new tank may have no clue about. A lot of tanks don't know what tank swapping is.

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Sorry, but you make a fools job sound like one made for a mastermind.
Those tasks are on the same level as lets say... "They need to know how to put salt on fries" or "How to put a lid on a cup".

And if a new tank does not know about it, the job of the game should be to teach them and not make it easier and easier, till a fool is able to make it.

Like I said above, I do not want them to turn this game into Battletoads, but also not into "babys first MMO".

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Alright. I get the frustration and I can actually appreciate how you worded yourself, but can we address one or two elephants in the room?

Firstly: This dev team probably does more to listen to it’s fanbase than any dev team of any game in history. If not it is right up there with the best of them.
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I can point to multiple times the fans shouted that something wasn't right, only to be ignored, only to be proven right later.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Secondly: The “fanbase” is far bigger than the people you see on these forums as this is only the forums for english. Japanese forums are actually from my understanding happy with all the changes or waiting til they get their hands on them for feedback (something these forums could learn to do). So they are listening and implementing changes to best fit fan expectations and desires even if that is not clear to some people.

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They're not completely on board with the changes as well, they're just less vocal about their criticism but if you can read between the lines it's there. They're much more respectful about it, dancing around the issue.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Thirdly: While you have some logical basis for your assumption on dungeon balance and the necessity of heals from the past lets remember two things. Each expansion they build is ontop of a rebuilt game with jacked coding they are still sifting through so there are times that they are very limited in their design choices. Also with each expansion they sort out a little more of it and have made great strides between each of the expansion and the mechanics and damage tuning. So while there is basis to be apprehensive there is equal basis to have some hope.

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This is literally not our issue. That is completely on SE. They took the easy way out and it has been biting them in the @$$ for a while.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Fourthly: These changes could foretell a bigger picture at play that may come to fruition down the line and with everything this dev team has done for this community i think we owe them the benefit of the doubt.

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Then share that vision. Stop the speculation with a statement.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Again stop throwing around the word homogenized. That’s an out right lie, you have similar basic kits. That is not homogenization thats actual basic design functionality..

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Respectfully, you need to go look at a dictionary or google.

homogenized
adjective

Made uniform or similar.
"a homogenized society"

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Give feedback based on your opinion but stop presenting your opinion as hard fact. Because you do not have any hard facts. .

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We don't have hard facts? We have numbers and abilities right in front of us. Yes the numbers can change but the abilities aren't going to. We went through this EXACT same situation in Heavensward so we know exactly what to expect. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but to say that the jobs aren't homogenized is just being blind.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I can point to multiple times the fans shouted that something wasn't right, only to be ignored, only to be proven right later.

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"You are playing it wrong". ;)

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Again stop throwing around the word homogenized. That’s an out right lie, you have similar basic kits. That is not homogenization thats actual basic design functionality. Even if your dps is basically reskins thats one aspect that has nothing to do with your job identity..

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Respectfully, you need to go look at a dictionary or google.

homogenized
adjective

Made uniform or similar.
"a homogenized society"

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I lolled at this...

It's not unlike "casual" where people think it means "easy" and have no clue what it actually means....