Crafting is fun!

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Now the fact that somebody enjoy crafting doesnt mean that the crafting system is well designed.

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Yes, it does. This is a game: that people enjoy playing it is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yes, it does. This is a game: that people enjoy playing it is all that matters.

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By your logic: Since others don't enjoy crafting that must mean that the system is poorly designed.

So apparently the system is both well and poorly designed.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yep. I play a game because I enjoy playing the game. Who'd a thunk it??

Maybe I'm atypical though. Maybe, because I have a accomplished a lot in real life, I can just relax and enjoy what I am doing without worrying about how much fake wealth I accumulate.

The people here complaining that crafting is broken because they cannot get rich by crafting anymore ... why are they obsessed with getting rich? If they enjoy the process of crafting, that should be enough, right? Some day, we'll move on to another activity or the servers will shut down, and all that gil will evaporate.

But the memories of the fun I am having will remain. So I'll take fun over gil until I run out of the latter. Because FFXIV is a game, not a job. Treat it like a job, and you will probably wind up hating it.

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I'm not disagreeing.

However many people see a benefit of a vibrant economy. Right now there is little purpose for non-crafters to buy crafted equipment. Changing that would create a more inter-connected economy which I think would be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Technically? Sure. In practice? No.

So much grind has been added to gathering and crafting that it is no longer feasible for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase to gather and craft their own stuff.



Your logic is actually one of the reasons why gathering and crafting is so bad now, and your suggestions would just make it worse.

Developers catering to greedy players and only caring about keeping prices on the MB high is what's behind all the grind that was added to the system. Yet you want them to make prices higher and force more of the playerbase to gear up via the MB.

I'm all for DoH being capable of crafting BiS items, but before that can happen, gathering and crafting have to be brought back to reasonable levels, so players crafting their own gear can become a real option.

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You just threw out to me the word "greedy" when there was no needed. I'm not greedy, i just pointed out how crafting is useless. Whats to be greedy about? If you craft HQ items it should have more value than NQ one, now would you please explain me why in most of the server we are at a point where people undercut each other to the bone and the NQ price sometimes is even higher than the HQ price? Because there is an INSANE flood of those items in the market, since its so easy to HQ that its pointless. Thats all i'm saying, Greedy has no part in this, i'm pointing out a flaw to the system. So pls dont deviate the focus of the topic. Are you seriously complaining about the "grind" to the system? leveling crafts is the most easy thing you can do in game, its blazing fast. What grind you talkin about?

Im saying 2 simple things here which you totally twisted and didnt understand apparently.
1) there must be a reason to craft something
2) if there are HQ items, there must be a value added to that.

What you mean by "crafting and gathering have to be brought back to reasonable levels"? im not understanding if you are complaining about leveling up craft job, because as i said thats one of the most easy thing to do in game.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Yea the cross class skill will def make it easier. I'm working on those skills now before i try HQ 2 star items on my GSM. The main ones are carpenter and blacksmith, with those you should have a really good shot at HQ. Even without it though you can prob get 50-60% chance at HQ through HQ mats and touches alone. Like anything, your going to get out of it what you put into it. I wouldn't say doing leves to get lvl 50 crafters is all that difficult though. I do agree, it would be nice if you didn't need the cross classes.

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I've experimented with the specialization system without using any level 50 cross class abilities recently and it is possible to HQ up to 1 star items at least. With 2* items, you might want some of the i180 pieces and some HQ components.

Aside from the reliance on rng (I got 2-3 good or excellent procs each time I used the Heart ability, which would be considered average to decent rng), the biggest issue I found was that I was consuming delineations like they were candy. 3 delineations allowed me to use master's mend 2 and nymeia's wheel twice for durability restores (120 durability), comfortably building up 10-11 IQ stacks. Crafting felt far clumsier than the high level cross class approach and byregot's miracle was underwhelming, although I did manage to use it twice.

I think it cost me at least 30k worth of materials for 67 blue scrips, which means I used around 35k worth of delineations. There probably is a more reliable way of using the system, but this method is going to get expensive if you're crafting 1* food or you happen to require a lot of delineations for non star recipes as well.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Are you seriously complaining about the "grind" to the system? leveling crafts is the most easy thing you can do in game, its blazing fast. What grind you talkin about?

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The grind was never in leveling up your DoL and DoH, the grind came after you reached 50 (now 60) with getting better gear. The grind comes from getting materials to actually craft stuff.

Just look at the items you needed to gather and craft for GC daily turn-ins at level 50, and compare them to the stuff you need in Heavensward. And this is just basic stuff. If you don't see how the grind was multiplied by a factor of 3 or more I don't know how to explain it to you.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Im saying 2 simple things here which you totally twisted and didnt understand apparently.
1) there must be a reason to craft something
2) if there are HQ items, there must be a value added to that.

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There has always been a reason to craft something: using your own gear and items. You don't need to sell stuff for DoL and DoH to have a reason to exist. That's the problem of your logic and the reason why DoL and DoH have been turned to crap.

Like I said, I'm all for DoH being able to craft BiS gear. But before that can happen, players gathering their own mats and crafting their own gear needs to be a real option. It currently isn't for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase. That's the real problem with DoL and DoH.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I just wanted to say the devs did a good job with the crafting system. It's one of the most comprehensive and fun crafting I have seen in any video game. Even better than Star Ocean 3 which had awesome crafting.

I know lots of people upset that crafting is a little more difficult then they were expecting, but I think the highest star items should be fairly difficult to make. You can get roughly 2-3 pieces of gear each week, which seems more than fair seeing as combat jobs need 2 weeks just for 1 piece.

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Totally agree. The system in lace is it's own minigame, and that's how crafting should be. I was blown away with the system coming from FFXI #fml #facewestonafullmoonforfire. Desynthesizing ? Auto synth! /cheer /fireworks. This is coming from a casual crafter also though, I make my money desynthing dungeon loot but the system is still amazing.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I do agree, it would be nice if you didn't need the cross classes.

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By rights, you don't. The basic rotation of Steady Hand, Great strides, Advanced touch, added with HQ mats will get you HQ on all cross class parts. I have a level 50 Armorer that got leveled in 1.00 and if I feed her all HQ parts I can HQ. You will still want to get every class to 60 in the end and it isn't about easy or hard. Eventually you are going to get sick of making twin thread and the optic of switching to logs or metal will break the tedium.

It's not much different than Dungeons. I've been in enough to know they are all the same. Tank and spank, run from the AoE, burn down the add's, blah, blah, blah but having a few different environments make them feel different.

Having all crafts to 60 just feels different and reduces the sense of super, micro, specialist and burn out that comes with it. Weaver elite is like being Alex dungeon elite. Sooner or later you will get sick of it.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

By your logic: Since others don't enjoy crafting that must mean that the system is poorly designed.
So apparently the system is both well and poorly designed.

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This is true of all games: none of them are fun for everyone. Which makes statements about them being "poorly designed" (except from the standpoint of the quality and efficiency of the software as software) purely subjective, and not much more meaningful than saying "it is not what I want."

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

This is true of all games: none of them are fun for everyone. Which makes statements about them being "poorly designed" (except from the standpoint of the quality and efficiency of the software as software) purely subjective, and not much more meaningful than saying "it is not what I want."

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

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But you can objectively tell when things are going good or wrong.

And 3.0 crafting is absolutely clearly going wrong, the vast mayority of crafters, whole crafting linkshells across all servers in all datacenters have said so. People like the OP are not even a number to consider compared to the ammount of people who isn`t enjoying crafting in its current state.

3.0 red scrips, forced gathering and useless end game are all, objectibly, bad.