If the caps/lockouts were separated by job or even by role, both sides would be happy. I get it, the cap is definitely necessary in order for the game to stay in a healthy state, but since we can play multiple jobs on the same character then why not allow us to have fun with them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdous
Typically people choose a single job to progress in coil or a single job in the newest raid, in the end it's pretty hard to optimally gear up more than 2-3 jobs, which to some people is a large part of the fun in this game.
Also, separating the caps/lockouts based on roll would encourage more DPS players to try out tank and heals, because no dps I know is going to tank or heal something (talking raids/coil mainly here) if it means they have to miss out on dps gear. The separation would give them a reason to play tank or heals after they already received their weekly loot, thereby probably improving queue times as well. Better gear for their tank/healer jobs will also give them more confidence to play them regularly because it increases their room for error.
3.0 hopefully not tome-cap reloaded
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02-28-2015, 07:41 AMDoctorPepper
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02-28-2015, 08:00 AMShougun
Separating the caps per job would mean you would affect crafting, through the purchase of the little knickknack items and those who would have bought items for another class not getting the tome items. I'm not saying it is impossible, just... would have an influence into other realms. I suppose you could create a third currency (doesn't have to be tome stone) that is limited and can only purchase knickknacks, in this way you would affect the economy less (still a bit since people may choose to use the current stone over crafting gear more often).
Also depends on if Allied Seals stay parallel in getting said ingredients, could move all ingredients to Allied Seals but I really want to see another method to obtain them then /seppuku from that system (at least when its prime time). -
02-28-2015, 08:16 AMDoctorPepper
I don't really see how it effects crafting, we're talking endgame gear here and the only endgame gear worth getting at level 50 are i110 accessories, and weapons for glamour. Those items need to be fully melded in order to actually be better than the ilvl equivalent gear that is already out of lockout and obtainable via uncapped tomes. It's always been this way in terms of crafting, they never release crafted items with a higher ilvl than whatever is obtainable by the current uncapped tome. In fact the only reason people buy the i110 items is to double up on base stats, such as vitality/strength for example, in order to get more hp for survivability, mainly in coil, and those people will buy the items anyways because they consider them better than the i130 equivalent due to double base stats.
Everything else is vanity, and honestly if anything being able to gear up more jobs will encourage people to put more effort into vanity as well because they'll be playing more jobs regularly. -
02-28-2015, 08:30 AMGardesWhat sides exactly? I have used BLM, DRG, PLD and BRD and even considered SCH on SCOB back when it was relevant due to roster issues and necessity and I still find this idea abhorrent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
Sounds like baseless assumptions to me. It's just as possible that people will just get tome caps for MORE dps jobs instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
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02-28-2015, 08:42 AMHito-Shura
I entirely agree with op on this matter.
This game is gorgeous. I love my character, the world, the story and all the add-ons that were added over the course of the year. I feel attached to the world and my character but not the game itself.
My personal opinion is that tome capping is not fun. I wish I could log on and play the game to have fun but it's not fun. What keeps me playing is friends, the world and now the very fun Gold Saucer... Not the tomes, gear or bland and boring dungeons we've been forced to do over and over and over again. Tomes is a chore, an obligation that is enforced on players to keep them actively playing if they want to gear up and control their advancement to make sure those with too much time don't upset those with less... Even worst, they now want to control how quick the players complete their extremely boring dungeons by putting doors after every groups of monsters! As for your personal advancement... You miss a week? Too bad for you friend cause you missed the train. You should have played FF14 instead of taking a break or playing on some other game you were interested in. You are now a sub-par player compared to the majority of the playerbase and there is no way for you to catch up anymore.
Players nowadays play to cap. They do not play to have fun. The devs main tool to make their players play is not the sense of fun but pure materialism and obligation. Over the year, this created animosity in the community and boredom soon turned to elitism, forcing new players to learn quickly because they would make other players lose time. Time on this game is time of boredom and that is why people want to get it over with and do not spend more boring time on wiping on simple mechanics. The system implemented in combination with the rushed, restricted, basic and reused content has destroyed a healthy community and turned it into competitive mess.
No matter what people say, I refuse to believe the tome system was a good idea. It worked for the first year and that's okay but things have to change if they want to keep this game healthy. I've been playing this game since launch now and ever since it began, I felt enslaved by the obligation to run their boring content, keeping me interested only by a few friends, the world and my hopes that things will change for the better in the future. I truly wish to see things change in 3.0 but I doubt it'll happen and sadly, I will have to kneel and take it like a good boy because the devs have shown me that they will keep this tasteless recipe and won't try to innovate for the sake of bringing back life in this hell of a community. -
02-28-2015, 09:01 AMDoctorPepperWell as far as I can see there are two sides to the debate in this thread. The side that thinks no cap would allow people to max out a single job too quickly, and the side that wants to gear up multiple jobs optimally because they find it fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardes
I'm not arguing that coil isn't possible with worse gear, I'm arguing that the lockout prevents you from actively using more than one job per week to enjoy coil. Some people prefer hard content and only log on for coil and to cap tomes, it would give those people more time to enjoy themselves on a weekly basis. I really don't see how that affects you at all, maybe I'm wrong, if I am the please tell me why.
You realize I specifically said by role in your quote right? Even if I spelt the word wrong dps is a role, tank is a role, healer is a role so the only additional dps jobs would be the tanks/healers working on dps after they finish for the week. This game encourages you to play other roles anyways so what's the problem with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardes
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02-28-2015, 09:18 AMOphie-MioGosh darn preach it, son! I was going to post about this topic and my feelings about the slavery of the tome capping and how it shouldn't matter to limit how SOME players go balls to the wall crazy with grinding fast. But yea, you covered it brilliantly. The obligation of the tome capping isn't fun. It never will be again. Three other dungeons is just another place to blindly and boringly cap tomes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hito-Shura
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02-28-2015, 09:21 AMGardesMy mistake. But that's still 1350 tomes per week and I already explained in my first post how tedious it would be to cap that much each week. Also, depending on how the tomes are acquired and assigned to the roles (healer can only get healer tome kind of deal or basic 3 staged stacking 450 caps), you could possibly be worsening the DPS queues. Some people queue roulette as tank even if they intend to use their tome for another role. My first batch of poetics has been spent on tank. I don't need to spend poetics on warrior anymore and have been pouring it into dragoon but I still queue as tank for ex dungeons for the fast queues. If I have to queue as a dragoon to get dps tomes, I would be forced to join the queue as a dragoon, increasing the number of dps in queue.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
If the tome cap is structured in a way that it is essentially a 1350 cap segmented bar that fills from left to right, SE would have to provide an option the order of the segments for people who only wants to cap 1 or 2 roles each week. People that queue as tank or healer for the fast queues will abuse their 'power' even more to force even more speedruns because of the additional dungeons they have to run each week.
Current poetics and 24 main raid can already cover 2 to 3 jobs. Add in 8 man raid (coil and alexander) and you'd be able to cover 4 jobs and there's only 3 roles in this game. Again, I don't see the need for more tomes. -
02-28-2015, 09:27 AMShougunMore points means more items (since some ingredients are from tokens), and more points also means less reason to buy the third tier gear as you move to second tier faster. Before if you were going to gear one character, then all your points went to that job and no other jobs got those token gears. So you'd go get third best if you really wanted to keep everything viable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
Not suggesting you'd cause a stock market crash, I'm not sure - I just figure that it will have /an/ influence on the matter. Whatever that may be lol. -
02-28-2015, 09:36 AMDoctorPepperOk that makes a little more sense, I pretty much disregarded those in my mind because on my server the mats from dungeons already tanked. Most are worth around 500 gil on average. I can see how people doing more dungeons would have an even larger affect on that though. I would personally still prefer separated caps based on role myself. Odds are I would never cap out all 3 every week, just nice to have the option to keep doing stuff and being rewarded for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun