#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

I don't even see anyone in game going on about it.

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The forum is a very small part of the community at large.
Noticing anything change ingame is probably little to nothing when it comes to the sheer amount of players compared to forum visitors.

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

I don't even see anyone in game going on about it.

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I've never seen anyone in game going on about anything except memes. Or copypasta.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I've never seen anyone in game going on about anything except memes. Or copypasta.

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yeah with the way people in game behave, you're lucky to get one "heyo" or "ggtyfp" in 10 duties, and have nothing but "gamba" venue adverts in shout. xiv players ain't exactly a talkative bunch in game.

Shame, I was going to go all Super Kami Dende when queueing as healer but I guess I won't be much rarer.

I play healer 80 percent of the time and tank sometimes too. I dont even play dps classes except just to level them for fun.

The hardest part of playing healer these days in just staying awake.

I have about 95 percent dps uptime in basically all content. GIVE ME SOMETHING BESIDES BROIL TO SPAM and a dot to refresh. Them giving us a new dot on a 2 minute cool down is just such a slap in the face. Im not even asking for like a rotation. Maybe a combo action for the ONE BUTTON aoe and single target spam. SOMETHING. its just so terrible and really sad to know that square is probably going to ignore this strike anyways. its been like 10 years since having a housing issue and thats still a thing to this day. yikes

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

snip snap

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Thanks for the engagement, bud. Every post keeps this thread alive, bubbling at the top of the page!

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Originally Posted by Pandurah

Thanks for the engagement, bud. Every post keeps this thread alive, bubbling at the top of the page!

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You're welcome dear, keep it comin'.

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

I don't even see anyone in game going on about it.

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Interesting. I commented on it yesterday in an alliance raid, and the whole party was talking about it.

Not a morning person but going to drag my rear out of bed to watch the live letter. Anyone else going to the same?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Not a morning person but going to drag my rear out of bed to watch the live letter. Anyone else going to the same?

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I'll be up anyway, but I am not expecting much

Putting any mention of healers on my bingo card.

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

yeah with the way people in game behave, you're lucky to get one "heyo" or "ggtyfp" in 10 duties, and have nothing but "gamba" venue adverts in shout. xiv players ain't exactly a talkative bunch in game.

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That's funny, I can't even recall the last time almost everyone in the group gave both a hello and a farewell in a roulette I did. This healer strike is also going so hilariously well that I was getting faster queues on DPS today than healer lol.

well it doesn't start until the launch of dawntrail, which is july 2nd... or did you not read the OP?

remember, reading is fun, and an important part of understanding what's going on.

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

well it doesn't start until the launch of dawntrail, which is july 2nd... or did you not read the OP?

remember, reading is fun, and an important part of understanding what's going on.

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Feel free to start earlier if you so desire everyone!

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

remember, reading is fun, and an important part of understanding what's going on.

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If people could read, we wouldn't have to constantly explain and re-explain what those of us with complaints on healer design actually want.

It's pretty simple really, downtime needs to be more interesting than 12111 spam, we need enough incoming damage to feel necessary (so more than what we have now, but not enough to completely annihilate unskilled healers), and for the jobs to feel unique in their playstyle.

Of course, that won't stop people from straw-manning the position into wanting us to have 20-button DPS rotations, or thinking that we want to do as much damage as a DPS, or thinking that healing as a utility should be exclusive to healers.

It's tiring, and this strike is honestly a long time coming, I'm surprised it didn't happen mid-late ShB. I just want old SCH back; a handful of DoTs and Bane, is that really so much to ask?

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

It was the first dungeon of the expansion during a media tour. Of course it's going to be easy. Why don't we have this debate after the expansion launches and not before we have even played the classes ourselves?

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KikiTia, I've heard this song a hundred times before. Same tune, different key. This is from all the way back in 2019: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5048603

"You can't criticize the changes until you've played them!"
"You can't criticize the changes until you're raiding!"
"You can't criticize the changes because the next expac will make them better!"

The Endless Waltz continues.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

If we wanna play dps instead of healers what's the issue? We are literally just playing the game like you ask us to do. Aren't we told to just go play something else if we don't like healing?

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Non-healers: "If you want to DPS, then play a DPS."

Healers: "Okay"

Non-healers: "No, not like that!"

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

My real frustration comes from that fact that Healers have been here for years. We didn't just become unhappy now with this thread. We've complained for years. People have already striked from healing, just not on any coordinated level but I have seen posts and people doing this already.

And for what? Dawntrail comes and nothing has changed. Years of feedback - just ... *poof*

I have literally thrown up my hands with having any hope for change. Maybe this time will be different. I guess the thread doesn't need my pessimism. I'm just bracing myself that this is how healing is going to be in this game.

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Going into the job trailer, the bar for my expectations was set so low that it's a tripping hazard in hell. And yet, here's Yoshida, limboing with the devil.

Throwing my hat into this ring as well. Although I don't do high-end content (mostly a scheduling thing, but partly a social anxiety thing tbh), I consider myself decent enough on SCH. Problem is, the only times I feel like this game is engaging to heal in is when shit goes so far south it hits the south pole, which if you have a halfway decent tank/group, it never does. Was already planning on just going through DT as RDM, but all the tank upgrades I've seen pretty much sealed it for me.

#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

It's actually funny, you get yelled at if you dont contribute dps as a healer.
But at the same time, healers are for heal only? So, am I allowed to ask for a small change in dps rota, or not?
Am I allowed to ask for more incoming damage, so I can heal more then? No? Why?
Isn't savage all about DPS checks? What's with all the disagreement?

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

KikiTia, I've heard this song a hundred times before. Same tune, different key. This is from all the way back in 2019: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5048603

"You can't criticize the changes until you've played them!"
"You can't criticize the changes until you're raiding!"
"You can't criticize the changes because the next expac will make them better!"

The Endless Waltz continues.

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Yeah. Especially in a game that likes to stick to its formulas as much as FFXIV does.

I'm not sure why I came back here to the forums but it still makes me so sad to see people making fun of genuine complaints and people that simply just care about the game.

If you see me around again tell me to just leave these forums are horrible for my mental health.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

It's tiring, and this strike is honestly a long time coming, I'm surprised it didn't happen mid-late ShB. I just want old SCH back; a handful of DoTs and Bane, is that really so much to ask?

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I think it didn't happen in ShB because the dev team was still very communicative at the time and haven't totally destroyed any jobs yet, the healer role and MCH were their first victims.

People still had trust and were willing to wait and see the developers rebuild from a new foundation.

They managed to lose a lot of that trust in EW so DT was simply the breaking point for a lot of people while others broke during EW.

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Originally Posted by sdr26

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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I saw that. Here's a link to Zepla's video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_-J2AMh0U
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254 likes! Thanks for your support everyone!

Schrödinger's healer strike:
Before DT launches, healer strike is
simultaneously

A) a disruptive event that impacts the player base and may incite chaos

B) a futile attempt that has absolutely zero impact on Duty Finder queues because the vast majority of people are more than happy to pick up the healer mantle and take our place.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Schrödinger's healer strike:
Before DT launches, healer strike is
simultaneously

A) a disruptive event that impacts the player base and may incite chaos

B) a futile attempt that has absolutely zero impact on Duty Finder queues because the vast majority of people are more than happy to pick up the healer mantle and take our place.

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when they look at it it is useless when they look away it is disruptive

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Schrödinger's healer strike:
Before DT launches, healer strike is
simultaneously

A) a disruptive event that impacts the player base and may incite chaos

B) a futile attempt that has absolutely zero impact on Duty Finder queues because the vast majority of people are more than happy to pick up the healer mantle and take our place.

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It's pointless when they have normal queue times, it's disruptive when their queue time is 1 minute longer than usual.

The strike is very flexible in that way.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

On the subject of tanking, I remember when EW launched, I did the Warrior nonsense and solo'd Hermis from like 55%. It really irks people but hey, I was curious back then if I could legit pull it off--not yet realizing how hilariously easy it was. Heck, I've had healers whine a little (including friends) because "Warrior really don't need heals..." Maybe we've finally reached the point where even average players have noticed how irrelevant healers have become.

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I keep seeing people say this, and then I look at my normal roulette run last night, on P5. I was WAR MT and my friend was DRK. Everything was going well until we hit Devour. Both healers and two of the DPS died with Carby at 25%. One DPS died soon after, leaving three of us. I went down first after burning through all my mits, including Holmgang and my self-heals. The other DPS died, and then it was down to my friend the DRK, who made a heroic effort but died before Undead Rebirth kicked in with Carby at 1%.

Yes, occasionally a WAR can solo a dungeon boss from around half health. But the idea that this means healers are obsolete doesn't track with my experience, especially as a DRK main. Currently I have three self-heals: Souleater, the third part of my single-target combo which I don't use onb wall-to-wall pulls because I'm doing my AoE rotation. Abyssal Drain, which is on a 60-second cooldown and shares a recast timer with Carve and Spit; if I use AD on a second w2w pull I won't have C&S for my opener against the next boss. Oh, and there's Living Dead, which is on a 5-minute cooldown and includes three different 10-second phases and most of the time I die anyway. I'm thrilled that Dawntrail includes another self-heal, not because I don't need a healer, but because it makes my favorite tank more viable.

I get that healing is in a bad state, and I think giving healers more of a DPS rotation and having more damage go out in general would be good things. I'd even agree that WAR is overtuned when it comes to self-heals in normal content, but for most tanks the solution isn't to take away our self-sustain abilities, it's to fix the problems with healers.

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Originally Posted by Bole

I still had hope for ShB because at first it did seem like they were increasing healing requirements. You noticed it in the level 71 dungeon, especially at launch on AST. WAR was still not this crazy, yet.

EW just went in a completely nonsensible direction.

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I was pretty miffed in ShB as well, but they said they needed to simplify it so they could rebulid the balance, of course... their rebuilding doesn't seem to be happening.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

I'm not sure why I came back here to the forums but it still makes me so sad to see people making fun of genuine complaints and people that simply just care about the game.

If you see me around again tell me to just leave these forums are horrible for my mental health.

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leave. these forums are horrible for mental health

I cannot express how as a healer main with over 5200 hours in this game, and not having my sub lapse a single time since I started in Stormblood, I am so desperate for the healer role to be improved. I feel like I have not only been let down, over, and over, and over after every update since Shadowbrigers, but it's to the point where I ligitamately don't feel like the role is given any consideration or respect anymore. I choose to play a healer because I want to be that kind of support in the party, I want to have that responsibility. Yet I have none of it. When almost every single piece of content in this game can be completely cleared without my role, when tanks and even DPS have so much mititation and self healing that I don't even have to pay attention to the game anymore and continue to press 1 button with no engagement at all, it's depressing. It's infuriating. I'm lucky enough that the static I'm a part of allows me to coordianate all the healing, all the cooldowns for the entire party so that I can at least feel like I'm doing my job in the role that I want to fill, but why do I have to do that in the first place? Why do I have to tell everyone else when to heal in order to fulfill the fun of that role when I'M THE ONE PLAYING THE HEALING ROLE. It's so disheartening when the communication from the dev team is so extraordinarily tone deaf when it comes to healers.

I chose to play this role. I chose this responsibility. Please let me have it when I queue up as a healer. I just want to be a healer and actually have engaging fun doing that. I'm almost at the point of begging if they would listen. I love this game to death. It means the world to me. I want nothing more than to have them finally listen to the people who play the role and know what they want from it, because it's painfully clear the developers don't play healer and don't understand what the appeal of it should be. This is the first thing I have ever posted on the official forums because I feel that strongly about this. I hope the more voices we can add the more attention we can get.

Calling it a strike is just hyperbole. The big ask. I mostly play healer for a fast queue time so hey I'll just sit and wait and get to play dps anyway. Not only taking away from the healer supply but adding to the demand is even better.

Anyway the issue isn't healers needing more damage options really. It's that there is hardly any unavoidable damage in the game at all. Boss auto attacks, they might as well do nothing and just sit there staring at you like the striking dummy they are. It's not hard or game breaking to add in a good bit of more random dispersed damage. A boss howls to start an aoe attack? Why not have that deal unavoidable damage to everyone. Trash packs can do more than just auto attack the tank. Make them occasionally target a random other player and poke em. Better yet also bring back aggro management so healers have to assess how much healing they can put out at a time and when.

And we shouldn't be catering to rpers and plotwatchers who have never seen a duty without the message, "a player is new to this duty and a bonus reward will be granted..." They will never do that content ever again. But honestly, by level 50, some amount of skill must be required to play the game. And this is an mmo like it or not. If someone can only stare blankly at their screen with drool running down their chin as they wonder if Thancred is going to cry about how much he misses Minfilia again, you're going to wipe.

And that's that. If you can't clear a piece of content, you're not going to progress. That's a video game. Is this a video game or a cutscene simulator like FF16? A silent movie? At least FF16 had the graphics for it and voice acting.

Adding unavoidable damage and cleansable effects isn't going to gate anyone who is able to get to level 50 anyway. People are citing a problem that doesn't exist. At some point the game is a game and not an rp platform.
Also raids are invalid and raider opinions are invalid. Raiders can go pay a hooker to get their balls stomped on for the same effect.

For all the people recently who say that "it's not that healer needs more damage options, it's that there's not enough damage going out", I have to ask you all.....

What do you do when there's nothing to heal? Do you keep up your damage? If so, do you not find your 2111111111112111111..... rotation boring?

There is actually zero possible way to make it so there's no downtime in this game. You can attempt to shorten the downtime, but you also have to keep in mind that the shorter the downtime becomes, the less time you also have to recover mistakes. This would undoubtedly raise the skill floor and would thus be not considered for regular dungeon content.

A solution should target all levels of play, it shouldn't be a half solution that cannot be applied to the content where healers are currently suffering an identity crisis the most.

I would love for YoshiP to play Healer for a tier. Maybe he'd understand what it's like to press the same single button 80% of the time. I feel as though not a single soul in the entire dev team actually plays healer. How could anyone let it remain the way it is for so many years? Promises of things changing in 7.2? Cool, so wait more than a year for what's likely going to be mid? Healing is just going to suck and remain bad. Better off playing DPS.

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Originally Posted by spianw

i still don't understand why cleric stance was straight up removed. it was too hard? ok, but it was also fun, so don't delete it, re-balance it. make it an optimization thing instead of a requirement. like a +5%/-5% alteration.

"Yoshida: For example, in a side scrolling game, if there aren’t any holes you can drop down into if you miss a jump, ofcourse the game would lose its stress, but it would also lose its fun."

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Non-conspiracy theory reason: Simply that cleric stance was not compatible with lag. All "stance dancing" was incompatible with lag, but as a healer, cleric stance swapped MND and INT, so if player had min-maxed MND as a healer, and not PIE, then when they hit cleric stance, they could do as much damage as a black mage does. But that's not the reality that happened. People would hit cleric stance, and then their heals would drop to 1-10% of what they should be, and if that was done at the wrong time, that wiped the party. Every time. People were mad.

You still see this effect with swiftcast. Where swiftcast will fire but then the thing you cast after it still takes the GCD time to cast. The only time swiftcast ever fires perfectly is when it's in a macro without any "wait" statements, because the game client is assured to have sent it in the same data packet.

Cleric Stance was only introduced in 1.20, so it hailed from the game's initial rework of the classes. Back when the combat involved little movement and a lot of standing in place.

The reason why "Cleric Stance" itself was bad, and say, "DPS stance" for a tank wasn't, was because Tanks had to tank swap. There is no point in the game that requires the healer to ever DPS, so having this skill at all during dungeon play was pointless. So when they removed the ability to set custom INT/MND/PIE values at level up, they had to remove Cleric Stance, because it no longer did anything. Now DPS is fixed and predictable without having to waste two GCD's to cast DPS. The DPS GCD should have just been 5s recasts, while the Healing 2.5s GCD's being affected by skill/cast speeds.

People who "weren't there" didn't experience the numerous bad "green DPS" players who played healer just to get a fast queue pop, and then they all die at the first pull. Healing isn't "1-2-3" combos where you have to be casting continuously. In 8-player content you could always tell which was the green DPS because they would switch to cleric stance and STAY in it. Healing was more "intense" by pure virtue of the number of players who just didn't know how to heal, and didn't know that they shouldn't be in Cleric stance to heal.

Cleric Stance intended only so you didn't spend 10x as long in solo MSQ content, and that skill should have been inaccessible during a party. But alas, the game's MSQ doesn't require anything but DPS, so people never required to play their non-DPS job. Tank stance is more complicated, and if the duty only requires one tank, then the tank stance should have been locked on, since there isn't a second tank to shirk enmity to. But people keep floating this notion that every job in party content must be doing 95% DPS rather than being completely optional. So a lot of ARR-era fights on the forums were this circular argument about "pure healer" (who did zero DPS) and "lazy healer" (who only used Medica and focused on DPS, even without cleric stance.) Once Cleric stance was disposed of, there was no more reason to have this argument because the time penalty to DPS was removed. Now anyone telling you to DPS can be ignored because you will DPS if you find time to, or you can just do no DPS and it won't be missed except by people violating the TOS who can't say anything.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

I would love for YoshiP to play Healer for a tier. Maybe he'd understand what it's like to press the same single button 80% of the time. I feel as though not a single soul in the entire dev team actually plays healer. How could anyone let it remain the way it is for so many years? Promises of things changing in 7.2? Cool, so wait more than a year for what's likely going to be mid? Healing is just going to suck and remain bad. Better off playing DPS.

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I dont believe Yoshida plays this game anymore. I think he used to in stormblood but I think theres a lot more distance between him and FFXIV right now

So for Clarity on whats wanted from this healerstrike is:

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You want mitigations removed from Tanks and DPS?

You want Self heals Removed from Tanks and DPS?

You want enemies to hit much harder?

You want healers to have a more decisive DPS Rotation?

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This is what I've gathered from the posts made in this thread, I promise im not trolling Im just gathering feedback confirmation.

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Originally Posted by spianw

i still don't understand why cleric stance was straight up removed. it was too hard? ok, but it was also fun, so don't delete it, re-balance it. make it an optimization thing instead of a requirement. like a +5%/-5% alteration.

"Yoshida: For example, in a side scrolling game, if there aren’t any holes you can drop down into if you miss a jump, ofcourse the game would lose its stress, but it would also lose its fun."

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It was removed because it was bad. There's a version of Cleric Stance in the game that actually makes sense called Lost Seraph Strike.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

You want mitigations removed from Tanks and DPS?

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No, at worst maybe some could do with nerfs, but otherwise mitigation is more of the tanks job than healers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

You want Self heals Removed from Tanks and DPS?

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Moreso nerfed than removed, although a large chunk can definitely be removed. They're powerful enough to make healers largely unneeded in casual content. It's one thing to have skilled players able to do content without a healer with some good planning, but currently you can get extremely sloppy and still succeed without a healer in casual content.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

You want enemies to hit much harder?

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Depends on how hard; too hard and it will affect casual players, but it certainly needs to be more than now, enough to make the healer feel warranted.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

You want healers to have a more decisive DPS Rotation?

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Yes. Doesn't need much, I'd be happy with about 4-6 regularly used buttons in a single target rotation, give or take.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

I keep seeing people say this, and then I look at my normal roulette run last night, on P5. I was WAR MT and my friend was DRK. Everything was going well until we hit Devour. Both healers and two of the DPS died with Carby at 25%. One DPS died soon after, leaving three of us. I went down first after burning through all my mits, including Holmgang and my self-heals. The other DPS died, and then it was down to my friend the DRK, who made a heroic effort but died before Undead Rebirth kicked in with Carby at 1%.

Yes, occasionally a WAR can solo a dungeon boss from around half health. But the idea that this means healers are obsolete doesn't track with my experience, especially as a DRK main. Currently I have three self-heals: Souleater, the third part of my single-target combo which I don't use onb wall-to-wall pulls because I'm doing my AoE rotation. Abyssal Drain, which is on a 60-second cooldown and shares a recast timer with Carve and Spit; if I use AD on a second w2w pull I won't have C&S for my opener against the next boss. Oh, and there's Living Dead, which is on a 5-minute cooldown and includes three different 10-second phases and most of the time I die anyway. I'm thrilled that Dawntrail includes another self-heal, not because I don't need a healer, but because it makes my favorite tank more viable.

I get that healing is in a bad state, and I think giving healers more of a DPS rotation and having more damage go out in general would be good things. I'd even agree that WAR is overtuned when it comes to self-heals in normal content, but for most tanks the solution isn't to take away our self-sustain abilities, it's to fix the problems with healers.

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I personally don't have an issue with self-heals on a tank. It's when they are so ridiculously powerful as to render the healer useless is where I take issue. The other problem is abilities like Bloodwhetting allow a WAR to heal themselves to full without having to tradeoff their DPS. It is so asinine to me that this even got green-lighted in the first place, and then they actually double-downed on their self-sustain. I'm still over here running my fingers through my hair, mystified.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't even know how someone can play such a busted-arse job with any kind of fulfillment of doing actual tanking.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I get the feeling this strike is everyone saying "design a healer that suits my specific play style" and everyone having a different play style. Some want more damage and randomized damage, some want more DPS options, some want more support options, some want to change it into a support role and add other jobs to it. In the end the problem is that there are very different wants from everyone and no matter what they choose the people that didn't get their way are going to be right back here saying the same things.

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Well, it's a good thing that we have 4 healers, then, isn't it? Not all DPS players want the same things from their jobs and different DPS jobs have different niches. Why do all healers and tanks have to be carbon copies of each other?

While I'm in agreement that healing has been on a downward spiral I end up playing it when I'm feeling lazy these days. Mind you I won't be playing it through the MSQ of DT and probably level them or phys ranged last because they kinda bore me too but that's a different topic. I couldn't imagine going through solo duties during MSQ spamming broil with the occasional biolysis. That and the new angel transformation is kinda ugly.