Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

No, it isn't an unequivocal statement because it's not self evident that them undoing gender locks meant they felt like that was something that damaged the game in any significant way. Unless they come out and state that was the case, claiming such is just an assumption....

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Ah, in that case your prior statements like

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Them undoing the gender locks isn't indicative of them necessarily feeling like they were damaging to the game, but were likely just one of many avenues they could use to earn bonus points with their existing and future playerbase for the relaunch. Just because they did something to try and regain favor after their game failed so bad it damaged the entire brand doesn't mean they will always do such.

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are also merely assumptions without anything resembling hard evidence to back them up. Which according to your little wall of text here makes them effectively meaningless and inconsequential.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

If you make a claim and can't back it up, why should I provide evidence for a counter-claim? That's not how it works.

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Except you haven't provided evidence for any of your statements in any of your posts to anybody in this thread. You continue to make baseless assumption after baseless assumption, from market shares in China/Korea to the reasons why Square Enix removed the 1.0 genderlocks, and then turn around demand evidence the minute somebody posts an opinion you dislike. You don't get to keep doing that and then hide behind weasel words and phrases the minute someone calls you on it.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

There you go putting more words in my mouth, ironically it's the SAME word again.... I never said to what degree it would or could effect them, only that it was worth considering.

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While positing it with condescending image and a know-it-all attitude. Well, here is your chance to prove you do know it all; explain how a gender-locked race would boost market shares for Square Enix in China and Korea and provide evidence to back it up. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

It really isn't though. The words of the director himself, the man in charge of signing off on everything that gets put into the game, are FAR stronger...The concept art doesn't dictate what goes into the game, the director of the game does.

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And if the director does something that seriously damages the game's reputation and sales they can and will be replaced by management. Something Yoshida is well aware of considering how he got his current position and what happened to his predecessor. And we are back to the fact you haven't proved that there won't be a major backlash for them re-introducing gender-locks.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

There is evidence for both sides, it's just the evidence that they will be genderlocked is a bit stronger, such as the way they have handled the official reveal and information of Viera and the reality that developing two dual gendered races is a lot of work and thus less likely to be the road taken (but still possible).

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The official reveal were they said they were having to significantly rework the coding for the helmets and footgear to accommodate the Viera and that they were still in the process of doing so? You know, did it ever occur to you the reason they didn't show case the male Viera might be because Fran's armor was the only gear set they had that didn't cause the game to crash when they slapped it on a Viera character model?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Part of that is due to the nature of adding things to the game. This also applies to the Dramaturge, just because he personally never saw any doesn't mean there aren't any there, however it paints a picture to not expect them

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So on one hand you admit that the Dramaturge's statement doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any male Viera in Dalmasca but in the next you still say it should be considered as evidence they won't show up?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

You just proved my point that there will likely be reasons we are exceptions to being allowed into the woods so the whole argument of "male viera would attack us on sight so they have to be in the game" falls apart.

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The plot point we are heading into the Ra'tika Greatwood and your assumption that we will have some exception to the rule about them attacking outsiders while heading into the woods are two very separate things. After all, to make contact and travel with the head of the Ishgardian Heretics, Iceheart, we first had to head into their territory and get attacked by her followers.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Certainly possible, but less likely. It's more likely they try to get our help to fend of the Empire than anything.

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So you think they will get into a life and death struggle with the Empire over their homeland, demand our help, take us into their homeland to fight the Empire and somehow we will never once see male Viera, who form the main line of defense of said homeland, while fighting the Empire in the homeland, which is where all male Viera reside lore-wise? And you were the one who called other people in this thread delusional?

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I just hope Yoshi wouldn't deprive the entire playbase of something just because he didn't care for it personally. I mean, I have a lot of respect for the guy. I can't see him doing that.

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If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

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Announcing a race and only making one of the genders playable is definitely depriving people of something, doesn't matter if it was promised or not.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

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Lalalalalala I'm sick of hearing people whine about lore when they're about to add a flying car to the game as a mount and all of my neighbors have Carbuncle houses. The player character is unique and can do and be whatever they want. Following the lore to the letter would mean no cat boys, only one white mage, only one dark knight, etc. It's not a usable excuse to justify not including male Viera.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

If there are no male Vieras, I'm sure there are a lot more reasons behind it than just his personal preference. Like who knows what it takes to run a whole division of a game, I'm sure the guy knows what's awaiting him after that kind of decision and has justification. Also I don't know if it's being deprived of something if it was never promised in the first place. That wording is a bit triggering lol.

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Oh yeah, I just hope the reason behind it isn't something that's going to scratch my head and go 'Well that's lame story writing.' If it's gripping, amazing storytelling which fits into the near-apocalyptic calamity of a whole world just being purged by light - where history has to be remade and fixed in order to avoid it? Then yeah, I expect it to be something dark. Not, 'they're here, they're watching, you just can't see them'. Which always got me really, since WoL in past scenes always seems to notice when they're being watched? I remember those scenes where my character turns around and does little head tilts because he's sure he's being watched.

I can sit back and clap my hands if something insane happens, where all the male Viera unite into this twisted abomination that rampages through the wood - as a last-ditch attempt - to push back their enemies, the ultimate sacrifice for their family. But I'd want to see that. I want to see the action! I wouldn't be happy with just flavour text. I've been waiting since FF12 - since tactics wasn't my thing as a child - to see the mysterious male viera. If they're going down, I wish to see them go down in flames and glory. I want to see the emotion! Heck, I want to be a male Viera and see my kin go through this! That to me is some epic storytelling, drama, emotion and excitement.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Lalalalalala I'm sick of hearing people whine about lore when they're about to add a flying car to the game as a mount and all of my neighbors have Carbuncle houses. The player character is unique and can do and be whatever they want. Following the lore to the letter would mean no cat boys, only one white mage, only one dark knight, etc. It's not a usable excuse to justify not including male Viera.

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I... didn't say anything about lore? Are you going crazy now guy?

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Oh yeah, I just hope the reason behind it isn't something that's going to scratch my head and go 'Well that's lame story writing.' If it's gripping, amazing storytelling which fits into the near-apocalyptic calamity of a whole world just being purged by light - where history has to be remade and fixed in order to avoid it? Then yeah, I expect it to be something dark. Not, 'they're here, they're watching, you just can't see them'. Which always got me really, since WoL in past scenes always seems to notice when they're being watched? I remember those scenes where my character turns around and does little head tilts because he's sure he's being watched.

I can sit back and clap my hands if something insane happens, where all the male Viera unite into this twisted abomination that rampages through the wood - as a last-ditch attempt - to push back their enemies, the ultimate sacrifice for their family. But I'd want to see that. I want to see the action! I wouldn't be happy with just flavour text. I've been waiting since FF12 - since tactics wasn't my thing as a child - to see the mysterious male viera. If they're going down, I wish to see them go down in flames and glory. I want to see the emotion! Heck, I want to be a male Viera and see my kin go through this! That to me is some epic storytelling, drama, emotion and excitement.

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This would be really awesome! It would be absolutely epic and emotional to see your people absolutely razed to the ground and you are their last bastion of hope. It still wouldn't change the fact that the beginning of the game takes place many years before anything would happen to the male Viera, so there really would be no reason for a male Viera not to leave before then...

Uhm... why are people thinking female only to start, then unlocking male later? Unless unlocking it gives a free Fantasia it would piss off all the Mogshop haters, and a lot of people who dont care currently about the MogShop.

It'll either be locked or not locked, not unlockable through gameplay. I'm personally guessing not locked, but since I'm not planning on more than maybe an alt I dont really care. I just dont understand the unlock during gameplay idea.

Or am I misunderstanding the idea.

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Originally Posted by Pixiehawk

Uhm... why are people thinking female only to start, then unlocking male later? Unless unlocking it gives a free Fantasia it would piss off all the Mogshop haters, and a lot of people who dont care currently about the MogShop.

It'll either be locked or not locked, not unlockable through gameplay. I'm personally guessing not locked, but since I'm not planning on more than maybe an alt I dont really care. I just dont understand the unlock during gameplay idea.

Or am I misunderstanding the idea.

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I think the "unlock it later" crew are saying they release females, then the players backlash because of course they will, and then se will be like "oh people actually wanted this??? We had no ideaa!!!" or "We couldn't finish this race in time so buy it now and we'll update it later because race releases can be partially release gated like raid releases" and then they finish the race later like they did for male miqo'te, female roegadyn, and female highlander.

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

Ah, in that case your prior statements like are also merely assumptions without anything resembling hard evidence to back them up. Which according to your little wall of text here makes them effectively meaningless and inconsequential.

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You're this close to getting it. Assumptions and speculation are by their very nature without proof (that's what assume means afterall). So yes, my assumptions are not necessarily backed up by hard proof. The difference is, when I'm asking for evidence it's when people have made all encompassing statements, not necessarily just assumptions.
For example, when you said the FFXIV devs unlocked the 1.0 genderlocks because they were damaging to the game, you made a definitive statement. I asked for proof because there is a myriad of reasons why they might have done that, instead of one definitive reason you put out there.
This is why I often use words such as likely, possibly, potentially, maybe. etc. etc. Instead of hard language that confirms this or that, I don't say the devs will do X because of Y, only that they may do X because of Y.

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Except you haven't provided evidence for any of your statements in any of your posts to anybody in this thread.

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Demonstrably false, but ok. I've certainly provided evidence for any hard claims I've made. I've also directed to plenty of evidence that supports my assumptions as well.

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You continue to make baseless assumption after baseless assumption, from market shares in China/Korea

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Bringing up that FFXIV exists in the Chinese and Korean markets, as a point that the NA/JP/EU communities/playerbase aren't the only ones that matter in factoring into the decisions of the future content implemented into the game is far from baseless assumption.
Does FFXIV exist in a Chinese and Korean market? Yes. Does the communities of these two regions matter when considering what gets added to the game? Yes. Could different things appeal to those different communities that might not appeal to western ones? Yes. So in what way is that assumption unfounded?

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to the reasons why Square Enix removed the 1.0 genderlocks,

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An assumption based on the fact that they didn't rectify the genderlocks in their prior MMO, FFXI. And that they didn't rectify those genderlocks when they developed FFXIV 1.0. And that a game failing so tremendously that it damaged a 20+ year old brand and them making an unheard of revamp to an MMO would motivate them to go above and beyond and do things they might not have normally considered a priority before but knew it would earn them favor and shine positively on them at a time when they desperately needed it. So again, not an unfounded assumption at all. And again, I'm not saying they only did the gender unlocking because the game failed, but it was certainly a factor into their decision to do it, and even after doing it the director was on record as being still open to the idea of a future gender locked race meaning he hadn't completely written off the idea.

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and then turn around demand evidence the minute somebody posts an opinion you dislike.

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Once again, I ask for evidence, not demand it (you love to just misattribute things and words to me, huh. How many times do I have to correct you on that). And those requests are when someone has made a claim (not just an assumption) that the devs, yoshida, SE, whoever did or didn't do something or their motivations.

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explain how a gender-locked race would boost market shares for Square Enix in China and Korea and provide evidence to back it up. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

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I'll do that as soon as you prove how a gender-locked race would hurt market shares currently, with evidence to back it up since that's what your claim was that started this in the first place. You asserted that it "definitely damaged the 1.0 version" (A absolute statement, not an assumption in case you needed that spelled out):

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

Gender-locked races definitely damaged the 1.0 version of the game enough that one of the first things Yoshida did after taking over the project was remove them. Or have you forgotten that?

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And I said you would be hard pressed to find solid evidence backing that up. Just like you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of such a thing significantly damaging any MMO because there's a ton of factors to be had on whether an MMO succeeds or fails and without extensive data and polling it'd be difficult to determine the percentage of that damage could be attributed to genderlocks (if any at all).
You don't get to make an assertion and then try to get around having to back it up when called for proof and try to goad me into providing proof of a counter-claim. Who's the one being weasely now?

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And if the director does something that seriously damages the game's reputation and sales they can and will be replaced by management. Something Yoshida is well aware of considering how he got his current position and what happened to his predecessor. And we are back to the fact you haven't proved that there won't be a major backlash for them re-introducing gender-locks.

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Yoshida has essentially pulled a miracle with Final Fantasy XIV. He relaunched a complete failure of a game to incredible success that has only grown. He was promoted to the board of directors and is head of the MMO division for SE at this point. He would have to butcher the current game so extremely that it would fail completely once again to be even considered to be removed/step down.
There would certainly be a backlash for this decision, but I'd be hard pressed to ever consider it major, or even damaging to the game. I don't have to prove there won't be a backlash because I've never made the assertion that there wouldn't be.
However, you're the one using language impying this decision (if it even happens) would somehow damage the game so badly that Yoshida would have to be replaced, and that is one wild presumption you have, and dare I use your own words, a baseless assumption.

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The official reveal were they said they were having to significantly rework the coding for the helmets and footgear to accommodate the Viera and that they were still in the process of doing so?

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Oh good, it's not just me who has words put into their mouth by you. They never said they significantly reworked coding for helmets and footgear, in fact their exact statement was: "We're having to make some changes to systems, such as how helmets work."
Given we don't know the full extent of what changes these are, we cannot say if they're significantly changed or not.

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You know, did it ever occur to you the reason they didn't show case the male Viera might be because Fran's armor was the only gear set they had that didn't cause the game to crash when they slapped it on a Viera character model?

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Of course male viera still being in development and not ready to show is a possible explanation that's been brought numerous times. However Yoshida has had no problem in the past telling his audience that he cannot show something because it is not ready. He even did exactly that just prior to the Viera announcement about the 8-man raid. It is very telling that for some reason, he chose not to say that at all when he has done so many times in the past. This should be something to consider and is another item in the pile of things that could point to there not being male viera announced.

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So on one hand you admit that the Dramaturge's statement doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any male Viera in Dalmasca but in the next you still say it should be considered as evidence they won't show up?

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Because it is not hard proof either way. It both confirms male Viera exist, but also paints them in a light that explains why we may never see one in the game. It has never been an absolute declaration that male viera aren't coming, but it absolutely could be a big hint that they aren't, especially when compiled with the big picture of everything else.

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The plot point we are heading into the Ra'tika Greatwood and your assumption that we will have some exception to the rule about them attacking outsiders while heading into the woods are two very separate things. After all, to make contact and travel with the head of the Ishgardian Heretics, Iceheart, we first had to head into their territory and get attacked by her followers.

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And we know absolutely nothing about why we are heading into the Greatwood. So all of it assumptions. You assuming we will be attacked by male viera is no different than assuming we won't be because we will likely be invitied or some other circumstance that makes not everything hostile to us. If male Viera aren't going to be in the game, than the latter is more plausible, if they are going to be in, then the former will likely happen.

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So you think they will get into a life and death struggle with the Empire over their homeland, demand our help, take us into their homeland to fight the Empire and somehow we will never once see male Viera, who form the main line of defense of said homeland, while fighting the Empire in the homeland, which is where all male Viera reside lore-wise? And you were the one who called other people in this thread delusional?

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I won't say exactly what kind of struggle we will be involved in within the Greatwood, but yes, it's absolutely possible for them to have us go through the entire area and never see a single male Viera and there's plenty of absolutely valid reasons as to why that may be. For starters, one zone is not the entire area on the map. We go to zones all the time but they are far from being 100% of the land mass. We will likely only be given access to a small part of the overall woods. If we're only involved in one part of the woods, they could easily write in something happening that draws the male viera to a different part we will never go to.
Not unlike past Ivalice games that had players in Viera lands but still never encountering male Viera because they were elsewhere. It's not a hard idea to grasp that there's a myriad of reasons they can write up to explain how we would never see them even when venturing into their lands.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I won't say exactly what kind of struggle we will be involved in within the Greatwood, but yes, it's absolutely possible for them to have us go through the entire area and never see a single male Viera and there's plenty of absolutely valid reasons as to why that may be.

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Nu Mou Beast Tribe captured them and made a Viera stew to quench their Primal's hunger/thirst for rabbit meat/blood.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

way too long to read

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Learn to summarize your posts and stop with the massive text walls please. It takes you way too much to say so little.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Learn to summarize your posts and stop with the massive text walls please. It takes you way too much to say so little.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/qvRjLOs2SVPsk/giphy.gif

My position on it at this point is that I'd be fine with a gender-lock if they committed to later adding the opposite sex for each race.

Aye, as long as they add them in - I'm fine. I've waited a long time for male Viera, I can wait a little longer. My only concern will be story, but as I stated before, if the story is subpar due to the exclusion, welp, a complaint is in order - if it's amazing, I won't complain about the story of course and instead praise it but still suggest the adding of the male viera and female buff khajiit.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They do. At the same time, I don't see why they need to have as many of those as they do male beasties.

Also, an interesting point about Ultima's design is that it may tie into Hydaelyn's (lower body aside.)

Also look at the similarities to Zodiark's position (in my sig) and the crown they both share for her statue version. Although Ultima in the dungeon was just a primal-like being which gained sentience - and great power - I have a suspicion that it somehow glimpsed Hydaelyn and emulated her form. Ultima in XII was characterised by her hubris and rebellion against the gods, and that would give it similar undertones in FFXIV.

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Based on the blurb for the figure, some combination of enough ambient aether and the worship of the ancient Ivalicians caused her to gain self-awareness and eventually manifest as a primal using herself as a vessel.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Based on the blurb for the figure, some combination of enough ambient aether and the worship of the ancient Ivalicians caused her to gain self-awareness and eventually manifest as a primal using herself as a vessel.

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Which could also leave an opening for her worshipers to have defined the look of her upper body, perhaps with an image of Hydaelyn in mind.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Aye, as long as they add them in - I'm fine. I've waited a long time for male Viera, I can wait a little longer. My only concern will be story, but as I stated before, if the story is subpar due to the exclusion, welp, a complaint is in order - if it's amazing, I won't complain about the story of course and instead praise it but still suggest the adding of the male viera and female buff khajiit.

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Agreed. If they're at least stated as being on their way to being playable, I'd be fine with that news even though it isn't as ideal as releasing both genders at once. However, if they keep playing this ridiculous game of not being up front with what's coming in this expansion then I can't spend money on it without knowing that what I want is there, or at least on its way in subsequent patches.

I hope for everyone's sake that it doesn't take them as long as it took them to implement bunny suits for men. I honestly think if male Viera is not coming Yoshi will give his reasoning at fanfest. Can sub or unsub then.

Yeah, I was already suspicious of SE putting 'early preorder' content into the game. Can someone confirm if you use the early preorder code, that you can't actually cancel your preorder? I doubt this is part of the whole gender locked race thing, but it did have me cock a brow.

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Originally Posted by Tharne

He's also meant (imo) to be a "sub in" for Matsuno and the phrase "They simply do not exist to us." could imply that they do not exist for the dev team by going a little meta in the game, i.e. : We won't make them playable or not even make a model for them.
There are a lot of hints inside his monologue that points towards : You will never see them even if they exist.

I'm just saying, Yoshida said that they gave hints there about the state of Male Viera, I just don't want people to end up with a Pikachu meme face if they say that you won't be able to make Male Viera. From what we have, I expect to not get them and will be happy if we do.

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Exactly this! Even though male Miqo'te are technically rarer than male Viera (1 out of 100 v.s. 1 out of 5), male Viera lore was framed in much harsher language. Plus, it was stated by the character that's supposed to be a stand-in for Matsuno, the creator of Viera.

https://i.imgur.com/wL8BTLS.png
https://i.imgur.com/quehTMi.png

Combine this with the fact that the blue leaker, who has been extremely accurate, stated there will be two new races, with one being the Viera and the other being a lion-like race, makes it seem more likely that we will get genderlocked races.

And there's more evidence too, such as Yoshida saying that he might create a separate race as a counterpart to female Viera. And he said this after unlocking female Roegadyn, male Miqo'te, and female Highlander.

And like others have mentioned, genderlocking and extreme dimorphism comes from the idea that females are supposed to be cute and sexy while males are supposed to be rough and gritty. Perhaps that's why the male developers felt uncomfortable unlocking bunny suits for male characters. Maybe that's why the idea of a male rabbit seems "kinda weird" to them.

Even though I would love male Viera, especially like the ones below, I'm afraid we're not going to get them.

https://i.imgur.com/4LX7xc2.png https://i.imgur.com/bbPXwBN.jpg

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Additionally:

Do you guys remember the vote for the new race in HW?

This were the results and I am also confident when people voted for Mammalian demi-beastmen, they definetly did not think of genderlocked female Races.

https://i.imgur.com/3T6OXLX.png

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post711060

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My initial prediction was that Hrothgar was going to be a bestial race.

But after looking at this information, I'm thinking Hrothgar will be a demi-beastman race.

So instead of getting something like this

https://i.imgur.com/wvPSlCA.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/Xg2tbB0.jpg

we're going to instead get something like this.

https://i.imgur.com/0kWk3i4.jpg https://i.imgur.com/RgwBVxt.jpg https://i.imgur.com/S8u9sAG.jpg

Hrothgar will probably be Highlander-like men with lion ears and tails. They'll be taller and beefier than male Miqo'te, and they'll likely have way more facial hair options so that when coupled with a long hairstyle, it gives the impression of a mane. Additionally, they'll probably have facial markings to give the illusion of bestial facial features.

The more I think about it and consider all the evidence, the more I believe we won't get male Viera. At this point, I'm pretty sure we're getting female-only Viera and male-only Hrothgar. I hope I'm wrong.

Man, if Hrothgar look like the thundercats, no thank you lol.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

You're this close to getting it....This is why I often use words such as likely, possibly, potentially, maybe. etc. etc. Instead of hard language that confirms this or that, I don't say the devs will do X because of Y, only that they may do X because of Y.

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I got news for you, just because you include the adjectives "likely, possibly, potentially, maybe" in your claims doesn't magically make them not claims. Nor does it provide you with a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card about having to back them up. That is not how debates work.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I've also directed to plenty of evidence that supports my assumptions as well.

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Then you should have no problem providing evidence to back up your assumption that the gender-locks didn't damage the 1.0 release or them removing the gender-locks for the 2.0 release had nothing to do with them knowing how poorly the gender locks were received.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Bringing up that FFXIV exists in the Chinese and Korean market...might not appeal to western ones? Yes. So in what way is that assumption unfounded?

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You are deflecting the issue here. You made a specific claim that you think gender-locked content would expand the market shares in China/Korea and when pressed as to why you think this is you respond with an incredibly general and vague statement about the Chinese/Korean market being different. Why am I not surprised? And why do you feel the need to write a novel without actually saying anything new?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

An assumption based on the fact that they didn't rectify the genderlocks in their prior MMO, FFXI.

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That was Hiromichi Tanaka's decision and when he tried to import the same model into XIV it crashed and burned. It was one of the reasons he was replaced with Naoki Yoshida who immediately undid the gender-locks in XIV. So you want to base your assumptions on what Yoshida's predecessor did as opposed to Yoshida's actions, i.e. removing the gender locks?

Do you seriously think basing an assumption on what Person A will do by observing what person B did while ignoring what A did the minute they took over from B ain't just making an unfounded assumption?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

You don't get to make an assertion and then try to get around having to back it up when called for proof and try to goad me into providing proof of a counter-claim. Who's the one being weasely now?

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I am not the one going around making claims and then saying because I included the adjectives "likely, possibly, potentially, maybe" I don't have to defend them or provide evidence to back them up while demanding everybody else provide evidence for their statements. That would be you.

Nor am I the guy writing a book where three sentences would suffice in order obfuscate just how little meat there is to my statements. That would also be you.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

There would certainly be a backlash for this decision, but I'd be hard pressed to ever consider it major, or even damaging to the game.

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That is nothing more than your personal subjective opinion and considering you think basing your assumptions on what Naoki Yoshida will do on what Hiromichi Tanaka did is valid reasoning I doubt you are anywhere in ballpark when it comes to accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Oh good, it's not just me who has words put into their mouth by you. They never said they significantly reworked coding for helmets and footgear, in fact their exact statement was: "We're having to make some changes to systems, such as how helmets work."
Given we don't know the full extent of what changes these are, we cannot say if they're significantly changed or not.

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Are you seriously going to sit there and argue semantics after acknowledging that yes, they are still making coding changes accommodate the Viera gear wise? Any coding change to a system that impacts every player characters gear and the gear of every NPC in the game is by its very nature significant. It is telling that all the models they showcased wore Fran's outfit and no other outfit, which heavily implies the changes to the other gear's coding isn't finished yet.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

However Yoshida has had no problem in the past telling his audience that he cannot show something because it is not ready. He even did exactly that just prior to the Viera announcement about the 8-man raid.

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And when asked about the male Viera he specifically said there was another Fan Fest in Tokyo, which is the kind of thing a developer would say if he had something to show but couldn't show it just yet because he didn't have a stable build of it.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And we know absolutely nothing about why we are heading into the Greatwood. So all of it assumptions....If we're only involved in one part of the woods, they could easily write in something happening that draws the male viera to a different part we will never go to.

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So pretty much your response to lore that looks like it setting up a possible hostile confrontation between us and the Viera is another "well maybe they all got lured away before we got there...."

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Originally Posted by Karl0217

And when asked about the male Viera he specifically said there was another Fan Fest in Tokyo, which is the kind of thing a developer would say if he had something to show but couldn't show it just yet because he didn't have a stable build of it.

So pretty much your response to lore that looks like it setting up a possible hostile confrontation between us and the Viera is another "well maybe they all got lured away before we got there...."

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Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

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Fran was the only Viera in the jungle. It is misleading to compare how they handled that small section of the jungle to what will eventually come in Shadowbringers.

Leak said Ronso I don't think Male Viera are coming XD

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Fran was the only Viera in the jungle. It is misleading to compare how they handled that small section of the jungle to what will eventually come in Shadowbringers.

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I mean, why would she have been the only Viera in that jungle? Don't Viera live in the Golmore Jungle? How do you know she was the only Viera in that jungle? My point is that just because we are going into a jungle doesn't mean we are 100% getting into conflict.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

My point is that just because we are going into a jungle doesn't mean we are 100% getting into conflict.

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Did you miss the part where it was literally on fire in the trailer or

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Did you miss the part where it was literally on fire in the trailer or

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Are you saying we are setting fire to their home? That we are helping them defend their home? Do you have absolutely no idea because no one does? Yeah, not sure what point you're trying to make. Maybe just go back to posting pictures of hot bunny boys.

Edit post limit: Anyone know how many posts you get on here? Hard to respond when you get blocked all the time...
The trailer shows Ysh' standing there while their home is burning and then we are running around the zone after the fact. We are in their home, apparently? And apparently male Vieras don't stay in the village, so the males could probably stay trigger happy where they are and leave the village to be defended by the equally fierce females. I honestly still don't see the leap between their village is on fire and there being a conflict between bunny boys and the WoL.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

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I believe Fran states you're being watched by them but you don't see them? Or was that FF12? I don't know, the fact of the matter is they don't attack if a Viera is with the party. The confrontation doesn't come from the lore, it comes from Yoshida specifically telling us that the blaze in the trailer is located in the sacred home of the Viera - he didn't need to share that information. Now it's certainly possible that something may happen where we may gain free passage, and a female Viera will escort us through the wood. And after that, we fully earn the blessing to wander freely without an escort. Of course, this is where the whole - well a confrontation seems likely, no? If they're being attacked then the Viera will respond in kind, their males first. The idea is that if a male Viera doesn't attack us, then we will come across one who is attacking the enemy.

The other side of this; people think that we won't see a male at all. And that the attack on the wood may not stir the males into action - a retcon of their lore. Or, that the males would simply act unseen in a fight against a shared enemy. Or, that all of the males have simply vanished. Since if there were NPC males then there is likely to be playable males. Without playable males then it's likely there will be no male NPCs. Or there will be male NPCs, and the release of playable male Viera is simply a matter of time due to armour limitations etc.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Are you saying we are setting fire to their home? That we are helping them defend their home? Do you have absolutely no idea because no one does? Yeah, not sure what point you're trying to make. Maybe just go back to posting pictures of hot bunny boys.

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And this is simply uncalled for. Obviously, we didn't set fire to their homes, the point they're making is that the males who are known to be trigger happy will be even more aggressive to outsiders during a time of war. Example; Aura's were attacked by Ishgardians because the Ishgardians thought they were draconic - this hate came from the war.

Regarding the whole; they don't live in the village. Well, that hardly means anything. They don't live in groups, they don't interact with the community; but it doesn't mean they can't live close to the village and/or around it - they simply do not live in the hub. An add on would be Fran's words. 'They are watching us' meaning there's more than one in just that small area watching them.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

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Yes, I am speculating but unlike Shippuu I am not going around implying everybody else is delusional for advancing a theory different than mine. And if you want to talk about them purposefully avoiding mentioning the male Viera they have also purposely avoided mentioning the Hrothgar before, during and after the Fan Fest as well. So what does that say about them?

And I think there is just a little bit of a difference between heading into some ruins escorted by Fran, who says the Viera are watching you and would have attacked if not for her, and setting up shop in a Viera village that just got blown to hell like the trailers imply we will be doing, wouldn't you agree?

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Lol all you do is speculate too, dude. What makes the fact that he said wait for Tokyo mean that he's saying male Viera aren't done yet? Literally nothing. In fact, the question he was answering specifically asked if we should wait for Tokyo and he just was coy and said oh yeah there is a fan fest in Tokyo huh? Like they purposefully avoided mentioning male Viera PERIOD in the fan fest, and have done so since.

Also just because you read something into the lore that's on the page doesn't make it true. What in the lore specifically states that we will get into a conflict with the Viera? It states they are isolationist by nature but times are changing, that's about it. Like Fran already came to us and helped us get into the Golmore Jungle... didn't see any male Viera there.

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We didn't see any other females either. Even then Matsuno's standin makes it sound like Rak'tika, which is supposed to be the home of the ShB Viera, is in the Skatay Range. It's so far away from Rabanastre that everything is still up in the air.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

We didn't see any other females either. Even then Matsuno's standin makes it sound like Rak'tika, which is supposed to be the home of the ShB Viera, is in the Skatay Range. It's so far away from Rabanastre that everything is still up in the air.

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If I'm not mistaken, I believe Viera live in both in Rak'tika which is south of the Skatay Range and the Golmore jungle. I think the Veena and Rava live there accordingly.

Edit: I've got it backwards, but here it is

https://i.imgur.com/gqJGJul.png

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Originally Posted by Serenno

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Viera live in both in Rak'tika which is south of the Skatay Range and the Golmore jungle. I think the Veena and Rava live there accordingly.

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The exact quote:

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Wandering Dramaturge: “Ah, yes. I have learned much of the leporine folk during my travels, so let us start off with the most basic of details─there exist two distinct clans, the light-skinned Veena Viera, and the darker-skinned Rava Viera. The word Viera itself means ‘people of the wood,’ and true to that name, both the Rava and the Veena make their homes exclusively in the Golmore Jungle, or the primeval forests which line the southwestern foothills of the Skatay Range, respectively.

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Despite this, the developers have repeatedly referred to Rak'tika as the home of the viera.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Snip

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Lmao I made my edit right as you posted..awkward haha.
But I just want to mention that I wasn't trying to disagree with you or anything, just point out that it'd make sense lorewise for Viera to also be around Orbonne. But yes, to your point we didn't see any Viera around there so it's not like it means much to not have seen male Viera in particular.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The exact quote:


Despite this, the developers have repeatedly referred to Rak'tika as the home of the viera.

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hmm that is interesting that implies something has happened to the Viera villages of Golmore that may have forced them North this something happened between when the Dramataurge last got viera info and an unknown date. Means what the dramataurge says is not currently correct and things have changed within their society

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

hmm that is interesting that implies something has happened to the Viera villages of Golmore that may have forced them North this something happened between when the Dramataurge last got viera info and an unknown date. Means what the dramataurge says is not currently correct and things have changed within their society

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Mhm, well he is talking past tense and how things are changing. Wars do end up causing an upheaval of society where communities must adapt to survive. Real life example; WW1/WW2 the men went to war so the women had to take up their jobs. If something bad was happening and it was bad, then survival is key. Protect the wood, protect your family. We already know that the Empire is trying to round them all up and march them into Rabanaster; one of the actors on the ship says so. If the Empire is to blame for this, then they are outnumbered. They will need aid. Perhaps something like a mirror of the Azim steppe will take place, where all of the Clans of Viera are reunited into one after their displacement from their original homeland.

This of course is speculation; before someone chews on me xD

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

hmm that is interesting that implies something has happened to the Viera villages of Golmore that may have forced them North this something happened between when the Dramataurge last got viera info and an unknown date. Means what the dramataurge says is not currently correct and things have changed within their society

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But then the 24 man story has us agreeing to help push for a massive military campaign by the Grand Companies just to get free passage which seems odd if there are very few Viera there.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

But then the 24 man story has us agreeing to help push for a massive military campaign by the Grand Companies just to get free passage which seems odd if there are very few Viera there.

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Thing is displacement doesn't mean a lot have died it's possible but not impossible either adaptation would be the key here how well have the Viera adapted to the new environment if well then they might be very few casualties if not yikes