Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I ask them what was it that I was doing wrong, and they told me that I was supposed to use trick attack before the train started using head-on.

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Someone help me with this - doens't Trick Attack put that nice debuff on the Boss? And isn't Head-On where you have to run far away from the Boss? Just... Why would they want you to use Trick at a time where most of it would be wasted...?

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

Gods, the pre-pull Regens... I've been seeing more of those lately while I was tanking roulettes. Every so often it would lead to the enemies I'm pulling making a mad dash for the healers faster than Flash can go off to catch them. THEN I have to run back to grab those enemies, and run back forward, by which point someone has put down an aoe on the ground as though the pull is anywhere near done (it's not). Like, knock it off, healers. If a tank dies to pulling more than they can handle, or a lack of cooldowns, before a pull is finished, then let it fall on them. It's safe to heal once the tank has aggro, because good gods do the trash mobs like to run faster than our Sprint sometimes when they have to cross a whole room to get to the healer! lol

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I mean you can get hate pretty fast even with Regen on you, but it is so damn annoying you could also click it away all the time or tell the healer to stop it (which probably will be ignored or you'll get shit for it). Is it too much to ask if they would just use their brains? :D

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Nah fam, that was harassment, fair and simple. Report the lot of them. Shirk and Rescue can be hella useful but they're also two of the most abuse-prone skills in the game and this was that. They intentionally interfered with your gameplay and got you killed, and trash talked you besides. You can educate someone without being a horrible person. No amount of bad play (which I'm not saying you did!) justifies that.

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I mean, if I'm messing up, feel free to point it out, but the way they just started using their role actions to punish my mistakes just left a really bad taste in my mouth. If they'd asked up front, I'd have told them that I delay going into my usual opener because of Head-On. Especially with no melds and still trying to pick up 350 gear.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

They had an ego complex. They decided because you did something you weren't used to, you were going to be their target for bullying and abuse. They even admitted it saying it was a "learning lesson" (aka we don't want to make ourselves look like bullies but this will end up ousting us anyways). Don't be harsh on yourself. If you feel you need advice and support, there's always the Balance Discord. Don't let some steroid-fuelled egotististical maniacs get you down.

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I'll take a look, but the rotations that I do know, I have to hold onto Trick Attack until after Head-On, otherwise it'll be a waste. I dunno, I've been running into dumb issues like this while trying to catch up. Hard to say if it's because I'm playing badly (even though I'm usually consistently doing mechanics correctly and pushing out high DPS) or I'm just running into more jerks at the end of this patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Someone help me with this - doens't Trick Attack put that nice debuff on the Boss? And isn't Head-On where you have to run far away from the Boss? Just... Why would they want you to use Trick at a time where most of it would be wasted...?

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That was my thinking too. It'd be a waste not only for the raid, but for my personal DPS too because my Ninki gauge won't be high enough before Head-On even starts casting. But apparently, I seem to be in the wrong about that, according to that group.

https://i.imgur.com/tIbJkdl.png

Context: Ran alliance roulette and got A5N. During the last bomb drop, the SCH went in and out of the tether to change to monkey only for the server tick to basically say 'nope' and denied them the sryinge and by the time they got it right the bombs exploded and killed everyone except me.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

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Not intending to defend rude people that they are, but their argument about you delaying the use of Trick Attack isn't exactly wrong.

I tested running it as my mediocre NIN, did normal opener (started the fight with Suiton and Trick after first Shadow Fang). When the train started casting the knockback Trick Attack only had 3 sec left and I got my opener (up to Aeolian+DwD) done and by the time the cast was halfway done and I disengaged, Ninki was 80+. I tried other jobs and I could do near to full opener before I had to walk away from train.

My conclusion is, opener damage wise, you actually caused the raid to lose more damage by delaying Trick Attack and that's probably what the group was trying to tell you. It doesn't excuse them to be so rude and basically troll you however especially in Normal mode raid.

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Originally Posted by RobinMalvin

Not intending to defend rude people that they are, but their argument about you delaying the use of Trick Attack isn't exactly wrong.

I tested running it as my mediocre NIN, did normal opener (started the fight with Suiton and Trick after first Shadow Fang). When the train started casting the knockback Trick Attack only had 3 sec left and I got my opener (up to Aeolian+DwD) done and by the time the cast was halfway done and I disengaged, Ninki was 80+. I tried other jobs and I could do near to full opener before I had to walk away from train.

My conclusion is, opener damage wise, you actually caused the raid to lose more damage by delaying Trick Attack and that's probably what the group was trying to tell you. It doesn't excuse them to be so rude and basically troll you however especially in Normal mode raid.

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So...basically, their trolling aside, I was completely in the wrong. That's...disheartening. 1 step forward, 10 steps back. Back to practice I go, then.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

So roll your eyes if you want, but I just did my first expert roulette and it went smooth with two comms.

That is all.

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No eye rolling here, thats a genuine accomplishment(a small one, but still real). Especially for someone who was nervous about current content. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by Apoptomon

I feel slandered :( ...stayed to wait for the loot rolls to resolve, but it wasn't progressing. When it finally did resolve, my rolls came up last and so I was blamed for trolling everyone... On another note, but also re: Rabanastre, even after several goes at it (it's been around a while now), I still can't quite get the hang of the spinning hand thing on the last boss.

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The knee-jerk reaction is to blame the name at the bottom, but if you actually look at the entire loot roll it tells you who was holding up the roll in some situations. If the rolls happen one by one, the last item in the chat above the list of rolls will be who finally submitted their roll to make it happen. If they all happen at once, then the person holding everyone up left without submitting rolls and all their stuff got passed on at once. As for the spinning hand, i assume youre referring to his Gnawing Dread move that gives the party the "Temporary Misdirection" debuff. One strategy ive seen work is to rapidly tap forward a few times until the hand is stopped facing the direction you actually want to go in. You could also try moves like evasive jump.

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Originally Posted by Vrahjin

Why is this possible? :(

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Because the game doesnt check if you have appropriate gear on in leveling dungeons, just cap ones.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Why are people so awful at this game? Why do these awful people refuse to take advice? If I'm fucking up and someone offers help, I'm going to take their help so I won't be an embarrassment.

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When i was still leveling up BLM i didnt understand the point of Flare. All my mana for one spell? How do you build a rotation around that? Or is my rotation "sit with thumb up butt for 15 seconds, flare, repeat"? So i wasnt using it, just F2(spam) B3 F3 repeat. Then i had a group tell me i should be doing Flare, so i tried it in the way i "understood" it(this would probly be the mass-wyvern pull at the end of... sohm al? aery? i forget). They called me an idiot and said i was doing it wrong without actually explaining anything. Well the dungeon was over(we were at the last boss) so i just did the ST rotation on the boss and ignored those guys. Those jerks clearly didnt know what they were talking about. Well that got me back to wondering about this spell i didnt understand, which led me to do some research which eventually led to me understanding how to actually use it. The moral of all this? Sometimes its not the advice people cant take, its the way that its presented. Also, some people believe they are perfect and are incapable of processing criticism(they are wrong).

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

So...basically, their trolling aside, I was completely in the wrong. That's...disheartening. 1 step forward, 10 steps back. Back to practice I go, then.

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Them telling you "stop doing that" without elaborating is going to help approximately no one learn what to/not to do. And shirking/rescuing you into harm is not only a childish response, but its beyond dumb. Youre mad that you lost some damage from buff alignment, so your solution is to kill/remove a DPS and lose even more damage? Thats wrong on so many levels. And finally, i wouldnt say you were completely wrong - i would say you were technically wrong. You were aware that the boss was going to disengage, and you didnt think there was time to get the benefit from your move beforehand so you saved it for after. The reasoning there is sound, and in some fights it probly proves to be right. But as you said, youre catching up at a fight thats 6 months old. During that time people have actually tested it, and found out(as Robin said) that the time just barely works out to use it beforehand. So you didnt have a bad idea per se, but in practice it isnt the best idea in this situation. Dont beat yourself up too hard.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

So...basically, their trolling aside, I was completely in the wrong. That's...disheartening. 1 step forward, 10 steps back. Back to practice I go, then.

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...No, no I wouldn't say that.

You had a good idea. There would have been a slightly better way of going about it, but you were playing your job according to what you at the time understood to be the best approach. The change is something you wouldn't know without specifically testing it (which you might not want to do in case it goes bad), or without someone telling you. Which no-one was doing. So you were like... maybe max 10% in the wrong.

Those other people in the instance on the other hand... Sure, they may have had something in mind that you could have used to better your rotation, but they didn't communicate that to you at all. Instead they started trolling you, and actively using their tools to mess with you, thus not only harassing you but also making the instance go slower for everyone, actively playing bad. At the very absolute minimum they were 95% in the wrong here.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

So...basically, their trolling aside, I was completely in the wrong. That's...disheartening. 1 step forward, 10 steps back. Back to practice I go, then.

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Practice makes perfect. You are going to stumble, you are going to mess up. Now, they could have gone "Hey, have you considered doing this? We've run the maths and the buff would last long for us to make it worth it." and been supportive and encouraging. Instead, they decided to make everyone's lives worse because of it, instead of being reasonable and just guiding. When it comes to knowledge, sharing is caring. I would do the same with my static, politely explain my findings and such with them, and we can all conquer it together. I'll be polite and calm and explain things in a friendly encouraging way. And as for rescue, I use it for the intended purpose in PUGs. As for shirk... now if someone keeps pulling ahead even though I've asked them repeatedly not to (due to my analysis of the party being that we can't safely handle more), then I might snap and shirk them, but other than that I'm fine.

I decided to do one last Castrum Abania run to hit 70 on my AST and honestly I think i would have got more enjoyment out of fate grinding that last amount of exp. The tank (DRK) popped Rampart a grand total of 2 times throughout the entire time we were in the dungeon. That was literally the only damage mitigation he was using and the only times he popped it was when he dipped to 15% hp. He didn't even use convalescence at all. It got so bad i had to start stockpiling Ewers for myself because i kept going oom repeatedly, even to the point where i had to use Lucid on CD because he was taking so much damage. The Ninja in the group might as well have been tanking, I'm sure he would take less damage than the wet paper bag that was our tank. It's kind of baffling that after 69 levels, these tanks still have no idea how to juggle defensive cd's and that the only time they use them, if at all is when it's clearly too late. I'm not even sure how we managed to finish it, thankfully I got 2 comm's as the healer and hit 70, but ugh what a terrible experience.

I got Stone Vigil NM via mentor roulette as WHM, with a PLD and 2 DPS sprouts - MCH and BLM with a bonus message. Everything was going fine, PLD was a breeze to heal and I got a lot of down time to throw out stones. I really hate playing MCH so I can’t say if he was doing all right - he kept up hotshot so it was good enough for me.

The BLM was pretty wonky though. All the way to the first boss they had a weird rotation going on. Fire 3 x2, thunder 2, sleep, fire 3 and then blizzard. I contemplated asking if she wanted any tips for her rotation but decided against it for now because I know genuine advice can come off as condescending.

Now we’re at the boss and I get ready to carry this girls DPS - and what?? She’s got single target rotation down, I didn’t see one thing out of order. I’m pleasantly surprised and a bit confused. The next couple pulls had only 2 monsters each and she did her single target rotation and everything was peachy, but the next pull with 3 monsters she’s back at using that weird rotation.

I’m thinking maybe she thought Fire 3 was an AoE so I say in party chat, “ Fire 2 is your AoE, Fire 3 is single target :p “ and just like that she starts using fire 2 like nobodies business. I didn’t see sleep at all after that. She didn’t say anything the entire run.

I feel like I might’ve been punk’d honestly but everything ended well and it was overall a fun run.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Give good advice.

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I 100% agree with you and yes it's wrong to call you an idiot without them explaining why and or how.

However in this case, I explained nicely and completely understood why someone would logically use cure 2 instead of cure. Especially since that's how it works in other mmos, which is why I told them "I get how that can be confusing but it doesn't work that way here for some reason" yadda yadda.

If someone making honest normal mistakes (or even stupid ones honestly) I always nicely explain and tell them they can ask me questions. Or ask me to adjust tanking until they get the hang of it.

Personnal top 3 of things that gets me tired when chaining 21-30 Hoh floors for xp as a healer :

- players that dont wait for protect at the beginning, because having more defense seems to be a bad thing ;

- players who happily run everywhere in the middle of the rooms while engaging mobs, taking damage from them and at the same time not knowing when an explosive trap will detonate under their feet and take 80% of their (and their neighbours) hp ;

- having to use swiftcast to finally cast protect with success on the fleeing players of the first point, to see them dying 15 seconds later in the middle of a room on an explosive trap like in the second point, and having to hardcast raise on them during 7 long seconds because swiftcast is still on cooldown.

I'd like address the toxic player mentality out there where people feel the need to tell others how to play the game. I've been playing Machinist for the past week now and I'm currently at level 62. I haven't entirely gotten the mechanics down yet and will probably never be really good at it for say Savage content which I don't do because I know I'm not good enough to do it on any job. I main BLM and I like to think I'm pretty good at it. But, I would never tell anyone else how to play BLM cause I know that I wouldn't like it if someone did it to me. Now, today I am playing in Sirensong Sea and this happens:

Healer: Use Spread Shot
Me: its too weak
Healer: your're 50+ and you say that?
Me: yeah, I haven't mastered this job yet
Healer: you know that aoe skills potency is applied by the amounts of targets they hit
Me: I prefer single target and let bishop do the AoE
Healer: then you're bad
Me: I'm still learning
Healer: as you're stupid enough to argue with a fact
Me: so f*** you
Healer: go
Healer: you'd love to

now we start on the first boss and I'm slowly dying from mechanics I can't dodge until i finally drop dead

Me: So I guess no heals for me then
Healer: I don't reward bad behaviour
Healer: remember "f*** you" that was smart
Healer: ......sure
me: cause someone was being a d*** about me not using spread shot
healer: today is the best day
me: I said i'm a master of this job yet (meant to put "not a master" but I too frustrated to notice it)
me: so let me do it how i know how at the moment
healer: i don't care
me: then f***ing drop from this dungeon then
Healer: do it
Tank (healer's fellow FC member): you first
me: I ain't waiting another 20 minutes
healer: thats not my problem
healer: "f*** you" remember.. you directed that at me
me: yes f*** you, f*** you, f*** you
me: oh and f*** you

As you can tell I'm no longer capable logical thinking and resorting to saying whatever pops in my head

Healer: you coming or should we continue without you?
Tank: what would the difference be?
me: if you ain't healing why should i

after that I just stop typing and just try to get thru the dungeon. Some of you already know whats gonna happen now. so no more chatting and we just keep going all the way past the wraith in front of the final boss then boom. Black screen and I'm back in Ishgard. I immediately filed a harassment report for violation of Vote Dismiss and give the short version. I admit wrongdoing on my part but these people have to realize their mistakes as well. I'd like to hear what you guys think. I'm just glad we weren't on the same server.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I'd like to hear what you guys think.

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I think it started off sorta fine honestly, the only class I know that can pull off single targeting in a pack (to an extent) is a monk. "Use spread shot" is kinda cold imo but then they explained why you should use it.

Are you not able to practice your rotation on a dummy? Or in potd where people go to practice stuff/don't care?

I completely get not being a master of something but that doesn't excuse going in dungeons and going "I don't know how" for something simple like aoeing.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

Healer: Use Spread Shot
Me: its too weak
Healer: your're 50+ and you say that?
Me: yeah, I haven't mastered this job yet
Healer: you know that aoe skills potency is applied by the amounts of targets they hit
Me: I prefer single target and let bishop do the AoE
Healer: then you're bad
Me: I'm still learning

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If you are still learning, then you might want to take the advice of the people who are trying to teach. Yes, the healer was a bit blunt, and got angry quickly, but you are the one that completely dismissed their advice (despite the fact you are still learning) with a "I like it better my way" response. That is a very quick trigger for many people.

I personally don't have a problem with people telling me how to do my job, if they indeed know how to do it better. You should always strive for self-improvement.
Also, swearing at people usually doesn't make them suddenly want to let you have your way. The opposite usually happens.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

If you are still learning, then you might want to take the advice of the people who are trying to teach. Yes, the healer was a bit blunt, and got angry quickly, but you are the one that completely dismissed their advice (despite the fact you are still learning) with a "I like it better my way" response. You should always strive for self-improvement. Also, swearing at people usually doesn't make them suddenly want to let you have your way. The opposite usually happens.

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I don't mind advice, I do mind being order to do something or feeling like I am. "use spread shot" did not seem like advice to me and I got angry.
Healer: Use Spread Shot
Me: its too weak
Healer: your're 50+ and you say that?
Me: yeah, I haven't mastered this job yet
Healer: you know that aoe skills potency is applied by the amounts of targets they hit
Me: I prefer single target and let bishop do the AoE
Healer: then you're bad
Me: I'm still learning
Healer: as you're stupid enough to argue with a fact

There was no advice given. only the feeling they're saying "are you stupid?!"

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Are you not able to practice your rotation on a dummy? Or in potd where people go to practice stuff/don't care?

I completely get not being a master of something but that doesn't excuse going in dungeons and going "I don't know how" for something simple like aoeing.

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I do practice on dummies. potd seems dead atm with slightly long ques times and everyone is speedrunning through them. It hard to get any better in there atm it seems to me. So the only place I feel I can truly see what works and doesn't is by doing dungeon runs. I honestly believed that using spread shot would not yield better results on 3 targets or less than single target focusing.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

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But the advice was telling you that the total potency is based on the amount of targets. They explained how AoE works, then you decided to stick with "your gameplay", even though you're in a learning phase. This means that some advice will be helpful for you to learn the job, not sticking with "what you know" and remain there. AoE works the same way for most jobs. Yes, it may be 100 potency (For example), but mutiply that by the amount of targets (say 8 for instance) and you'll have 800 potency PER GCD. That's crazy! This without taking into account the offgcds you'll be throwing in between.

Even if it's an order or something, I don't see why it would offend you. You're overlooking a skill that would be beneficial for big pulls. I'll agree that calling you like that was uncalled for, but you're not innocent here. Both sides were equally toxic as your reaction was also inappropiate.

EDIT:

It's worth mentioning that you insulting them and filling a report may backfire. XIV's staff has a record track for banning people that throw the "F" bomb among other lesser (and worse) things. They CAN actually report YOU instead.

@Jonnykit

Lessee here:

-You spewed profanity at your party members
-You tried to coerce them to kick you from the dgn because you were having playstyle differences
-You got what you wished for, just not when it was convienient for you

Did I miss anything?

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Originally Posted by OurMom

If someone making honest normal mistakes (or even stupid ones honestly) I always nicely explain and tell them they can ask me questions. Or ask me to adjust tanking until they get the hang of it.

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I wasnt really just saying "give good advice", i was saying that the way you word your advice can affect the way people take it. The nicest advice in the world can come off as an attack if you think youre about to be attacked, so the person hearing the advice matters too. I also said that some people are incapable of admitting wrong, and for all we know hes one of 'em(or maybe hes like me, and hes going to research what you said and find out for himself what the truth is - that being, what you told him).

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I'd like address the toxic player mentality out there where people feel the need to tell others how to play the game. I've been playing Machinist for the past week now and I'm currently at level 62. I haven't entirely gotten the mechanics down yet and will probably never be really good at it for say Savage content which I don't do because I know I'm not good enough to do it on any job. I main BLM and I like to think I'm pretty good at it. But, I would never tell anyone else how to play BLM cause I know that I wouldn't like it if someone did it to me. Now, today I am playing in Sirensong Sea and this happens:
*cuts bulk of story for space*
Black screen and I'm back in Ishgard. I immediately filed a harassment report for violation of Vote Dismiss and give the short version. I admit wrongdoing on my part but these people have to realize their mistakes as well. I'd like to hear what you guys think. I'm just glad we weren't on the same server.

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My first thought? That escalated quickly. Lets get a disclaimer out of the way: I dont agree that telling someone else how to play is automatically toxic. Very few skills in this game are ever taught properly to players by the game itself. The way that abilities are named and worded often leads to people not understanding how they are intended to be used. And on top of that, some skills and traits work together in ways that arent apparent at first glance. Put that together, and youve got a combat system that can easily be confusing to some players. Helping someone who doesnt get all these nuances understand how to really make their class work is actually the opposite of toxic. But when you try to give good advice in a bad way, then things go downhill. Explaining how potencies are calculated in a multi-mob fight and that aoe is better is helpful. Telling someone "Git gud you suk" is toxic. It all goes back to the point i was trying to make with OurMom. /disclaimer

The healer was right that your aoe attacks are usually the better way to go on a multi-mob encounter(im not even remotely someone that should give MCH advice as i havent unlocked it, but most classes should swap to aoe skills at 3 or 4 targets). But he was very blunt about it, a little condescending, and resorted to insults rather quickly. Not at all the way to give advice. Also a little childish to stop healing you after you told him off, though predictable. That doesnt make you right either. As you said, youve only been playing the class for a week or two. That means that you should still be learning and open to advice. Having gotten from 30 to 62 in that little time tells me you mostly likely either you spent a lot of time in PotD or you jumped. Neither of which are good for exposing players to the way their class is supposed to be played. Signing up for a real dungeon(and a high-level one at that) says on some level that you believe you are prepared to play that dungeon with those other players both from a class experience perspective and from a properly geared perspective. If you havent taken the time to learn the difference in how your class handles aoe and single target fights, then you werent prepared. And honestly, someone who has taken another class to 70 should probly already know that.

With that said, nothing about what happened needs to stop you from learning the ins and outs of MCH play. A mistake from yesterday is a learning experience for tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Did I miss anything?

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So you missed a couple things. First, the other guy called him stupid before any of that went down. And secondly, he was telling the healer to quit if he wasnt going to heal. Thats not the same as asking for a kick. Swearing at the other guy was never going to lead to a positive outcome though.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

Healer: Use Spread Shot
Me: its too weak
Healer: your're 50+ and you say that?
Me: yeah, I haven't mastered this job yet

I'd like to hear what you guys think. I'm just glad we weren't on the same server.

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Just want to chime in and say "you're 50+ and you say that?" is a pretty snide remark. There are better ways of offering advice without demeaning the short time a person has had to experience a class. It's all fine and well to tell this person "but they gave you advice" but the truth is they did so with some measure of arrogance. Whether the advice was solid or not doesn't excuse the poor attitude.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

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I didn't intend for the "give good advice" part to come off like that it's just I had to shorten it and I was doing something else so I made it something I could remember. Sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I do practice on dummies. potd seems dead atm with slightly long ques times and everyone is speedrunning through them. It hard to get any better in there atm it seems to me. So the only place I feel I can truly see what works and doesn't is by doing dungeon runs. I honestly believed that using spread shot would not yield better results on 3 targets or less than single target focusing.

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I've been spamming potd non stop with short ques, are you on the aether datacenter?

Do you parse?

Generally speaking, a blunt “use X” message mid-combat isn’t necessarily the other person being rude, just trying to get their message typed out in as few keystrokes as possible during the brief space between attacks. Especially for PS4 players who either have to use the onscreen keyboard or put down the controller to type.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

Me: So I guess no heals for me then
Healer: I don't reward bad behaviour

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I don't think you reacted well there but I'll never understand this mentality.

"I'm going to punish you for acting in a way I don't like by purposefully letting you wipe, leaving you not having to do anything and making the dungeon longer and more work for everyone else."

What?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I don't think you reacted well there but I'll never understand this mentality.

"I'm going to punish you for acting in a way I don't like by purposefully letting you wipe, leaving you not having to do anything and making the dungeon longer and more work for everyone else."

What?

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Using single target in a group of 3+ is just garbage, especially at level 62. Levels 30 to 62 should be plenty of time for someone to realize that 100 potency (or whatever) spread over 3 targets is more DPS than 240 potency to one target. Running with people who don’t use their AoE gets old pretty fast - start throwing the F word around and you better believe I’m not healing that person regardless of it increasing the length of the dungeon. Honestly, how fast is it even going when they’re not being efficient anyway? I’ve let people die for less than that.

I’m not saying that healer was right but personally I probably would’ve had the same reaction.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I'd like to hear what you guys think.

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I’ll go through your post and tell you my thoughts on it, since you asked and I just happened to be reading. None of this is meant to sound antagonistic towards you, but it may be a tad blunt because I’m bad at... not being blunt.

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I've been playing Machinist for the past week now and I'm currently at level 62. I haven't entirely gotten the mechanics down yet and will probably never be really good at it for say Savage content which I don't do because I know I'm not good enough to do it on any job.

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This is fine; when you’re learning, you make mistakes. And contrary to the various hyperbole you may have read/heard, people do not expect Savage-level performance in dungeons, especially leveling dungeons. They do expect you to know some basics though (e.g., using cooldowns as a tank, regens/shields as a healer, and AOEing when appropriate for a DPS).

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I main BLM and I like to think I'm pretty good at it. But, I would never tell anyone else how to play BLM cause I know that I wouldn't like it if someone did it to me.

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I think it’s crucial to be accepting of advice, especially on a job that you are still learning how to play. If the advice is something that can help you perform better, or help you understand the job a bit better. Keep in mind that some advice may be coming from people who main the job you’re leveling; they will probably have an understanding of it, so it’s always appreciated to be accepting of it and a bit humble.

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Healer: Use Spread Shot
Me: its too weak
Healer: your're 50+ and you say that?
Me: yeah, I haven't mastered this job yet
Healer: you know that aoe skills potency is applied by the amounts of targets they hit
Me: I prefer single target and let bishop do the AoE

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This advice is okay; there’s nothing inherently “toxic” about it. If the tank was doing standard pulls in Sirensong after the party gets off the ship, that’s enough mobs were AOE is called for.

Spread Shot may seem weak on its own (most AOEs are less potent than your single target abilities), but when you pair them against several mobs, they always win out. If I recall correctly, there’s about 6 or 7 mobs with the two packs before the first boss. Spread Shot’s initial potency is 80, which does seem weak. However, 80*6 is 480 total potency, and 80*7 is 560 potency. This would be on top of your Bishop Turret, which even though it has diminishing potencies for multiple targets, it would still win out over a simple single target on one enemy. That’s just the math behind it.


I have to add in a bit of two gil here, because I think this healer was frustrated by your lack of AOE, and I have to say I certainly sympathize; it is one of my biggest pet peeves to see DPS not AOEing, because then others have to pick up the slack for them. When you get in a party with DPS that refuse to AOE, the tank and healer have to work harder, either with AOE of their own, or the tank has to blow more cooldowns on trash mobs because they aren’t dying fast enough, and then they won’t have any for the next pull. Healers can in up strained for mana from healing once a tank runs out of cooldowns if the pack is still large.

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Healer: then you're bad
Me: I'm still learning
Healer: as you're stupid enough to argue with a fact
Me: so f*** you
Healer: go
Healer: you'd love to

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This entire part right here was uncalled for, on both your part and the healer’s part (as was the conversation in the first boss). I understand if you were angry, but it’s better to just take the high road instead of devolving, or “stooping down to their level”, if you get what I’m saying. I honestly think the situation could have been avoided if you had simply used your AOE ability when the game was mandating it.

After the way the dungeon devolved, I can’t really blame the party for wanting to kick you. It was crappy of them to do it at the last boss, but the entire thing that prompted the dismissal was ridiculous in and of itself.

It can’t be considered a violation of the Vote Dismiss feature, either. “Differences in playstyle” is a valid reason, and you weren’t contributing to AOE as you should be doing and blatantly refused to when asked. You also refused to follow the party following the mess that was the first boss, and even though I agreed that the healer was in the wrong, you aren’t doing any better acting like that. If the group was that bad, I would have honestly just opted for the 30-minute penalty on top of another queue instead of dragging it out, but that’s just me.

You are a DPS and it is your job to deal damage—that includes AOE damage. This entire situation could have been avoided if you had simply started AOEing.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I'd like address the toxic player mentality out there where people feel the need to tell others how to play the game.

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I want to conclude this with that it is equally “toxic” to use the “you don’t pay my sub” argument when someone is giving you advice that will help you down the line (because that healer will not be the first and last player you meet that get frustrated with DPS that do not AOE). There is something to be said for the mentality of “I will play how I want to play”, and it’s not a good something. You are playing this game with other people, and using up other people’s time. Things die faster when you AOE; you waste less time and you waste less resources. I can’t speak for the healer specifically, but there are a lot of players that do not like having their time wasted.

I hope you consider all of these things for future dungeon runs.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

snip.

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Admittedly DPS not touching AOE is one of my pet peeves, and I understand the frustration behind it. But there's nothing to be gained from letting a DPS wipe, it's a detriment to everyone for the sake of an ego trip. It might not be optimal damage but one DPS not executing their AOE right is (usually) still a fair amount of damage more than just the one DPS. Besides that, you're giving them a free pass to lie there and do nothing out of spite in the name of "punishment." It's just counter intuitive to me.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

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Since you asked what we think...

There was nothing wrong with what the healer did at first. You honestly shouldn't have argued but your initial responses weren't really that bad. Healer got rude, likely out of frustration. You got toxic first. Healer got toxic in response (something he actually made abundantly clear.) I personally would have kicked you either right away or resigned myself to your sub-par dps and bad attitude, but I at least understand why they reacted the way they did. Your harassment report is a waste of GMs' time and if it results in anyone getting in trouble, it'll be you for swearing at them.

The whole run was a mess and honestly could have been avoided if you didn't have the mindset that strangers giving you advice is inherently bad.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

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I urge you to read very carefully what Hyomin wrote. Healer was probably frustrated by your refusal of doing AOE dmg. I know I am since I play healer jobs 90% of time and there are DPS refusing to AOE too often.

If i were with you in that dungeon then i would have vote kicked you after you would say F**** you and i am calm person. Yes healer said that you should AOE a bit bluntly and after you initial refusal he probably lost his nerves but what could be reported is what you wrote.

When somebody is trying to help you to learn your class try to do what he/she advised you and think about it. There is no harm in that.

Leveling roulette: Qarn.
Party: Me as PLD, some WHM, RDM, and DRG. Similar names all from the same server, probably a premade.

Probably against my better judgment, because PLD has like no cooldowns at that level and Shield Oath as well as the healer being good are probably the only thing keeping me alive once Rampart and Anticipation are on cooldown. Like actually good, letting regens do their thing rather than cure spamming like the one I had in Brayflox a few days ago who bottomed out on MP on the last boss as even after a Medica cast they were still throwing cures on me. It was actually pretty annoying, but anyways.

Pull the bats at the start to the first room, RDM casts Scatter all over four times, WHM is throwing Aeros and rocks, I got that sweet Rage of Halone combo and I don't know what the DRG was doing.

Next room take it a bit slow 'cause bees. RDM really wanted the chest from that head thing as they were putting more focus on that then the second bee. Almost ate a Final Sting.

First boss: DRG died and I'm certain they were standing on the glowing square. RDM died to it too. Even before then it was becoming apparent they don't know what they're doing. I assume this as I did not see a Heavy Thrust from the DRG. I didn't see one the entire run. Quite a few casts of Jolt from the RDM.

Next set of mobs, the bees on the staircase. Pretty sure the last one died before Final Sting was done casting, but still hit by it. It hurt. Took a second to wait for a heal before going for the two mantis, RDM starts casting Jolt, so got that heal and grabbed the mobs. Doors open, do the thing with the heads, go into one room, RDM pulls the mobs in the other room to where the rest of us were at, saying in chat they figured it'd be a good idea. It doesn't make a difference, but whatever. At this point, I'm certain those Scatter casts from earlier was the RDM's daily quota. Never saw it again.

Pull some more to the entrance of the boss room, still no Scatter. I am practically in love with this WHM though, for real.

Pull the boss, RDM is spamming Jolt, DRG is standing in one spot, backflipped, used Jump for the first time probably in their entire career as a DRG which wasn't too long, but they have visible Ironwork gear, so it's not like they just got it and then proceeds to stand in one spot some more before finally attacking. No Heavy Thrust just whatever excuse for a combo they have at that point, probably out of sync.

I really like how the second boss in Qarn doesn't follow the enmity table and I really liked how it went ham on the DPS, bashing them in like a bag of carrots. If there is a God, it's an angry golem that hates bad DPS.

Eventually we get the hallway leading to the scales, I pull the mobs in the hallway, probably could've gone further, but not with this Scatterless RDM. Seriously that's like 600+ potency with these pulls and they used it barely at the start. RDM pulls the mobs in the room with the scales. They die hilariously. So did the DRG. Not sure how, probably trampled to death. Couple Flashes to keep them off the WHM who leaves the DPS to rot. I could've given myself to this WHM in the hallway of these ruins atop the corpses of their bad DPS friends.

Last boss: Closest I came to respecting the content was doing the thing with the first blockhead that spawns otherwise I will literally play DDR rather than focus down the other adds. This was the second time I've ever seen anyone do that. Also the first time I seen this RDM cast Verfire and not even on the boss. In short, the WHM and I basically duo'd the last boss.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Admittedly DPS not touching AOE is one of my pet peeves, and I understand the frustration behind it. But there's nothing to be gained from letting a DPS wipe, it's a detriment to everyone for the sake of an ego trip. It might not be optimal damage but one DPS not executing their AOE right is (usually) still a fair amount of damage more than just the one DPS. Besides that, you're giving them a free pass to lie there and do nothing out of spite in the name of "punishment." It's just counter intuitive to me.

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If there's one thing I learned leveling DPS jobs and continuing to see there is a real chance there is only one DPS using their AOE abilities. You ever see a SMN whose entire AOE consists of two Ahk Mhorn at best, but in reality probably not even one? Mind boggling.

And if there's one thing I learned while leveling PLD, if I'm bottoming out on TP, it's because I'm the only one AOEing.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Leveling roulette: Qarn.
Party: Me as PLD, some WHM, RDM, and DRG. Similar names all from the same server, probably a premade.

<snip>

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Sounds like you had same serious lag issues at the first boss and with bees.
The RDM looks like a player that hasn't figured out his class yet (can't comment on the DRG, haven't played that class yes). Happens, luckily not to often.

...Come to think of it, I think I just ran an expert roulette with a couple of forumers. I think I recognized the names from somewhere. A certain tank/healer pair, of which the tank possessed an Ultima axe.

I may be mistaken, but I could have sworn I've seen both names on the forums before. Hm. Rina Astrea and Black Lily. We had a player in the party who had yet to clear but we still blew through the dungeon in less than 16 minutes regardless.

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

Sounds like you had same serious lag issues at the first boss and with bees.
The RDM looks like a player that hasn't figured out his class yet (can't comment on the DRG, haven't played that class yes). Happens, luckily not to often.

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At that level, DRG is literally Heavy Thrust > True Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Life Surge > Full Thrust with a Jump and Blood for Blood in there. Impulse Drive might as well not even be there because Vorpal Thrust after True Thrust is more potency. Heavy Thrust is the only positional you have which is flank, so you can literally stand beside the boss and wail on it and not lose anything as long as you keep Heavy Thrust up. Also the only positional the job has until level 50.

At that level, the only melee more brainless than DRG is NIN where you just stand behind the boss and go 123 with the odd Jugulate and Mug mostly Jugulate in between not even factoring in Mudras.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

I'd like address the toxic player mentality out there where people feel the need to tell others how to play the game. I've been playing Machinist for the past week now and I'm currently at level 62. I haven't entirely gotten the mechanics down yet and will probably never be really good at it for say Savage content which I don't do because I know I'm not good enough to do it on any job. I main BLM and I like to think I'm pretty good at it. But, I would never tell anyone else how to play BLM cause I know that I wouldn't like it if someone did it to me. Now, today I am playing in Sirensong Sea and this happens:

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My thoughts, you were almost completely in the wrong. They explained how the AoE works, and truth be told, spread shot is still more potency overall in multi-target situations like those, especially when you factor in the bloody RNG of the job (which can be mitigated with ammo I know, but those things have cooldowns!)... When you started going f you, and then proceeded to report them for their attitude... you shot yourself in the foot there (pun NOT intended), you're likely to have a black mark on your own account (and for the record, they never disappear. If you were to swear again 50 years down the line, that first offence would still be used against you, fifty years on!) - only thing I disagree with is healer refusing to heal you, but I can understand that was borne out of frustration. You however were the toxic player, and the fact they had to kick you for harassing the healer, yeah, you could potentially be banned for that.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Practice makes perfect. You are going to stumble, you are going to mess up. Now, they could have gone "Hey, have you considered doing this? We've run the maths and the buff would last long for us to make it worth it." and been supportive and encouraging. Instead, they decided to make everyone's lives worse because of it, instead of being reasonable and just guiding. When it comes to knowledge, sharing is caring. I would do the same with my static, politely explain my findings and such with them, and we can all conquer it together. I'll be polite and calm and explain things in a friendly encouraging way. And as for rescue, I use it for the intended purpose in PUGs. As for shirk... now if someone keeps pulling ahead even though I've asked them repeatedly not to (due to my analysis of the party being that we can't safely handle more), then I might snap and shirk them, but other than that I'm fine.

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I hear what you're saying clearly. But I don't have a static. The most frustrating thing for me is that the literal last two things I did in the DF over the past week or so, ended with a player/players either blaming me for having aggro when the main tank dies, or the whole situation that I mentioned a page before. At this point, I don't even play on NIN right now because I don't feel like dealing with more angry players over mistakes that I make. I just play in Anemos on BLM. I dunno, I'm kinda extremely frustrated right now because I'm trying my best.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I hear what you're saying clearly. But I don't have a static. The most frustrating thing for me is that the literal last two things I did in the DF over the past week or so, ended with a player/players either blaming me for having aggro when the main tank dies, or the whole situation that I mentioned a page before. At this point, I don't even play on NIN right now because I don't feel like dealing with more angry players over mistakes that I make. I just play in Anemos on BLM. I dunno, I'm kinda extremely frustrated right now because I'm trying my best.

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Unfortunately you're not on my datacentre, and I know you're American and probably won't want to deal with EU ping, else I'd have offered you a place in my static that I'm wanting to build for 4.4 and beyond. It'll be EU evenings though that we'd be raiding so given timezones, I don't think that'd work out for you unfortunately. I know you're disheartened, but maybe try building your own static in 4.4 and clearly laying out ground rules and what you want to achieve? I know you can do it, just need the right people. GL out there fellow Eorzean.

Where to begin?
Ppl who kicked you for viewing a cutscene...
Ppl who lecture you cause they "have a lvl 70 of that class and know it better than u"...
(and after reading some advice ppl, I am talking about those kind of ppl who tell u something, u appreciate it and still keeping saying and saying, using caps and laughing if u receive a single dmg after their "advise". Yeah guys, thats lecturing)
Tanks who doesnt take aggro and want to dismiss u for running when u got aggro...

And this is only from today. I didn't find all these ppl when I started but now is daily...

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Originally Posted by Riyven

Where to begin?
Ppl who kicked you for viewing a cutscene...
Ppl who lecture you cause they "have a lvl 70 of that class and know it better than u"...
(and after reading some advice ppl, I am talking about those kind of ppl who tell u something, u appreciate it and still keeping saying and saying, using caps and laughing if u receive a single dmg after their "advise". Yeah guys, thats lecturing)
Tanks who doesnt take aggro and want to dismiss u for running when u got aggro...

And this is only from today. I didn't find all these ppl when I started but now is daily...

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Sorry you're encountering some bads!

Just wanted to chime in on your one point about running when you wind up aggroing an enemy.

If you run to the tank you're making it easier for him to take the enemy off of you. If you run around the area kiting the enemy you're just making it harder for him to take back threat because he has to chase you down.

Not saying that they should mistreat you if you make a mistake, only that you can make it easier on everyone involved if you don't run around needlessly. In higher level instances this can literally be the difference between the tank getting an enemy off of you in time or it killing you.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Unfortunately you're not on my datacentre, and I know you're American and probably won't want to deal with EU ping, else I'd have offered you a place in my static that I'm wanting to build for 4.4 and beyond. It'll be EU evenings though that we'd be raiding so given timezones, I don't think that'd work out for you unfortunately. I know you're disheartened, but maybe try building your own static in 4.4 and clearly laying out ground rules and what you want to achieve? I know you can do it, just need the right people. GL out there fellow Eorzean.

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I appreciate the support. I need to actually git gud first before even thinking about statics lmao

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Originally Posted by OurMom

I've been spamming potd non stop with short ques, are you on the aether datacenter?

Do you parse?

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Sorry for the long wait to reply, I went to bed shortly there after as I needed to be up in 5 hours to go to work. I'm on Primal Data Center and I play on the PS4 using Controller. I don't have way to parse other than reviewing combat log with dummies.