The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

How is this a dps increase? U got so much going on during PB phase, u will b running out of time.

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Because in the same PB duration, B4B and IR were applied to avoid a few seconds of the buff being wasted like your rotation at start. B4B, IR, PB are all oGCD abilities that can be used between GCD ones.

Grouping buffs together and delaying a GCD is a dps loss. If you have to delay your gcd, you're already doing it wrong.

Also, using Twin Snakes as part of the opener after DK isn't worth it as you can put it up in 2 skills after PB ends. Using another Snap is a gain of 40 potency over Twin. Otherwise, you gain 15 potency on the Dragon Kick and 19 on the True Strike that follows if you chose to do Twin Snakes in PB instead, which is a gain of 34 potency.

40 > 34.

Furthmore using Twin at its natural part in the rotation allows for consistent upkeep the next time it comes around.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Your position (and buffs and debuffs and basically everything) is calculated when you begin the attack. Note: you can press the button before the GCD is available, so you can press the button before the attack begins. But stuff is calculated when the attack begins.

After the attack starts you can do whatever. Run into a conflag. Die. Turn around. Circle through the tank. Your side/rear attack will still get the side/rear bonuses.

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I dunno, the game seems to make its own mind up half the time. Many occasions I've started an rear-facing-opo-opo-stance-bootshine just as titan turns for LS, so I run to the side and -- no crit.

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Originally Posted by Buckles

I dunno, the game seems to make its own mind up half the time. Many occasions I've started an rear-facing-opo-opo-stance-bootshine just as titan turns for LS, so I run to the side and -- no crit.

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It can get innacurate whilst the target is moving or turning. That's because Tue server updates the position I believe before we see the animation of turning, so there's a bit of a desync.

Otherwise, assuming a static facing target, you can safely begin a WS animation in the right position and move during the animation.

I think its just bad business to have an idea of positional bonuses on moves with a system that isn't smooth regarding positioning.
For now I'm still learning so I don't know what my average damages should be, normal vs crit, vs positional bonus vs non positional bonus.
I know in the case of working lancer up to 22 so far, Heavy thrust. Clearly lets you know when you weren't actually in flank which is damn surprising as I can stun it, run to side, Heavy thrust, no bonus. Heavy thrust again, nothing.

Just like how you can avoid a move when the move is half way done on the castbar, like the Haukke HM boss' mist, but then still get stunned.
They just rename that mist to Remove Greased Lightning.

At least its as bad as a DRG -- I feel sorry for those poor sods when their Heavy Thrust doesn't hit a flank and they have to do it twice :D

But I always feel sorry for me when my BS doesn't crit :(

to my mathematical monks that have already done the calculations:

is it more worthwhile in terms of total potency to use PB as a means of getting to GL3 super fast, or instead using it as an offensive cooldown for a 4xbootshine/true-strike +demo/snap

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

to my mathematical monks that have already done the calculations:

is it more worthwhile in terms of total potency to use PB as a means of getting to GL3 super fast, or instead using it as an offensive cooldown for a 4xbootshine/true-strike +demo/snap

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Going to say depends on the content, but as a general guideline I'd say it is best used to get to GL3. Most fights have at least one mechanic that inescapably forces one to drop GL3.

I'm unsure when to use PB as a DPS tool. While it's nice to spam True Strike or Bootshine, it messes up the rotation and I've let it do more harm than good. Are you supposed to something like Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > ender > PB > (True Strike/Bootshine/Demolish (if not up) spam X 3 > Snap/Demolish > DK) > DK/Bootshine > TwS?

It's not even that much of a DPS gain in the grand scheme of things. It's a bit of a spike compared to the usual, but honestly given that PB is the only way to regain GL3 in a very quick manner, it's best left for that express purpose. Want spike damage? Pop an HQ Str potion.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Want spike damage? Pop an HQ Str potion.

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I really can't repeat this enough. If you really need to utilize PB as a burst DPS tool, then you (or the other 1-3 DPS) are simply not ready for whatever you're trying to tackle. The nominal increase of damage in a PB burst pales in comparison to the DPS you will lose trying to ramp up from scratch again.

It's not about clearing content, it's about clearing content faster and more efficiently. If I'm in a fight where I'm not going to drop the stacks once they're up, and I can add damage for free, I want to do that.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

It's not about clearing content, it's about clearing content faster and more efficiently.

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Right, and unless the content in question has no part in it that forces a GL3 drop, it's better to use PB on gaining GL stacks exclusively. Using PB to burst isn't going to speed things up much for you (if at all even) whereas getting back to GL3 when you drop in in only 3 skills versus 9 will.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Right, and unless the content in question has no part in it that forces a GL3 drop, it's better to use PB on gaining GL stacks exclusively. Using PB to burst isn't going to speed things up much for you (if at all even) whereas getting back to GL3 when you drop in in only 3 skills versus 9 will.

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Don't get me wrong, I think PB is by far best used for ramping up. However, unless a fight is less than 3 minutes long, you'll have it up again, and you may not have need of a ramp up any time after that depending on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Don't get me wrong, I think PB is by far best used for ramping up. However, unless a fight is less than 3 minutes long, you'll have it up again, and you may not have need of a ramp up any time after that depending on the fight.

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Yeah, so like I said if you know the fight can be done without dropping GL3 stacks (as in there isn't a mechanic that forces it, like Titan's heart Spawn, Divebombs in T5, doing anything in a PUG) then you just keep it there as backup, ready to use.

Let's assume, in theory, a fight where the player has virtually no chance of dying or dropping stacks, and it lasts more than 3 minutes. Where is the best time to PB for increased damage after it comes back up?

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Let's assume, in theory, a fight where the player has virtually no chance of dying or dropping stacks, and it lasts more than 3 minutes. Where is the best time to PB for increased damage after it comes back up?

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You seemed to have the right idea:

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > ender > PB > True Strike X 3 > ender > DK > DK/Bootshine > TwS

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Let's assume, in theory, a fight where the player has virtually no chance of dying or dropping stacks, and it lasts more than 3 minutes. Where is the best time to PB for increased damage after it comes back up?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You seemed to have the right idea:

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > ender > PB > True Strike X 3 > ender > DK > DK/Bootshine > TwS

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Yep, 3x True strike and then keep GL3 is what I do, it isn't much but I don't like to leave PB sitting there unless I know i'm gonna need it as well. I just make sure ToD is on and place demolish, then I'll PB and do 3-4 true strike, GL3 move, and before PB ends i'll re app dragon kick and twin if possible and then keep rolling into Bootshine and continue.

My fellow Monk, I apologize in advance if I have missed it in previous posts, but what is our optimal AOE rotation? Or does focusing on one mob at a time yield better efficiency?

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Originally Posted by VonWilhelm

My fellow Monk, I apologize in advance if I have missed it in previous posts, but what is our optimal AOE rotation? Or does focusing on one mob at a time yield better efficiency?

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It depends highly on your TP needs, PB needs, how many enemies there are, and how long the enemies are going to live.

2 enemies: Dragon Kick and multi-DoT both with Demolish and ToD, assuming they'll live through the DoTs. Once you've got DoTs on both you do standard rotations, ideally on the highest HP enemy if you want to maximize DPS.
3 enemies: Dragon Kick each mob, Rockbreaker if TP isn't an issue, Demolish each enemy if it is. ToD is worthwhile here still to multi-DoT. Demolish has 310 Potency from behind and costs 50 TP, Rockbreaker will do 390 total Potency but costs 120 TP.
4 enemies: Dragon Kick each mob, Rockbreaker becomes a bit more worthwhile to use than Demolish at 520 total Potency, though still less TP efficient than Demolish.
5+ enemies: Good time to Dragon Kick/Bootshine > Twin Snakes > PB > spam Rockbreaker, unless you'll be needing TP in that encounter (like Turn 4). Arm of the Destroyer is more damaging than Bootshine or Dragon Kick with this many enemies, but it's so TP-inefficient, you'd need an incredible amount of enemies to make it worthwhile per your TP, so you'll probably want to stick with primarily using single target attacks and Rockbreaker.

Mostly you'll just want to Dragon Kick as many enemies as you can, keep Twin Snakes up, and Rockbreaker or Demolish based on TP needs and/or the number of enemies being attacked. If you need extra oomph, go into PB and Rockbreaker spam. If you have a strong BLM in the party, don't even waste your TP too much.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

Yep, 3x True strike and then keep GL3 is what I do, it isn't much but I don't like to leave PB sitting there unless I know i'm gonna need it as well. I just make sure ToD is on and place demolish, then I'll PB and do 3-4 true strike, GL3 move, and before PB ends i'll re app dragon kick and twin if possible and then keep rolling into Bootshine and continue.

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Opinions on using Bootshine spam instead of True Strike? ref: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...or_dps/cf6mg6j

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Originally Posted by VonWilhelm

My fellow Monk, I apologize in advance if I have missed it in previous posts, but what is our optimal AOE rotation? Or does focusing on one mob at a time yield better efficiency?

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As Sleigh sais, With up to 4 enemies I I pick em off one by one with a standard rotation and move on to the next after applying dots.
Usually the other DPS finishes them off there.

On 5+ enemies I usually do Bootshine > Twin snakes > Internal release > Rockbreaker > Perfect Balance > Rb > Blood For Blood > Rb > Howling Fists > Rb x2
After this, depending on how wel the other DPS AoEs, the pack usually is pretty close to dead in which I start picking them off one at a time.

If I know I'm going to have to keep going on for a bit I toss in an Invigorate once my TP hits <550.

so what is the best rotation for monk? o_o

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Originally Posted by amaezing

so what is the best rotation for monk? o_o

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There isn't a set rotation for MNK. It's more a priority system, which turns into patterns or "rotations."

1. Keep Greased Lightning 3 up
2. Keep Demolish up if they'll live through at least 9 seconds, keep Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes up
3. Keep Touch of Death up if they'll live through the duration
4. Use Bootshine, True Strike, and Snap Punch when the above are satisfied and you're in the appropriate stance

Which basically devolves into either Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch/Demolish > Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch/Demolish > repeat, or Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch/Demolish > Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch/Bootshine, depending on how you started the fight, and if you're attacking multiple enemies.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

There isn't a set rotation for MNK. It's more a priority system, which turns into patterns or "rotations."

1. Keep Greased Lightning 3 up
2. Keep Demolish up if they'll live through at least 9 seconds, keep Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes up
3. Keep Touch of Death up if they'll live through the duration
4. Use Bootshine, True Strike, and Snap Punch when the above are satisfied and you're in the appropriate stance

Which basically devolves into either Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch/Demolish > Bootshine > True Strike > Snap Punch/Demolish > repeat, or Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch/Demolish > Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch/Bootshine, depending on how you started the fight, and if you're attacking multiple enemies.

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Don't forget fracture. Or last I saw anyway people were still claiming it to be a slight dps increase.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Don't forget fracture. Or last I saw anyway people were still claiming it to be a slight dps increase.

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Until one thinks they are entirely proficient with MNK so that they feel that doing the rotations and reacting to mechanics properly is second nature to them, I would highly recommend against using Fracture at all.

It is theoretically a slight DPS increase (and I mean somewhere in the realm of 3%) in return for not only an increased TP drain but very real risks of losing essential buffs.

Fact of the matter is for many novice MNKs it ends up reducing their DPS considerably because they mistime it and lose Twin Snakes uptime, or even Greased Lightning stacks.

Sorry if these questions have been asked before.

But what are some common pugilist/monk macros?

Also, what cross class skills should I get if I want to be a good Monk?

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Originally Posted by Skaenryss

Sorry if these questions have been asked before.

But what are some common pugilist/monk macros?

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I have none, I perform every action manually in case I need to adapt to a suddenly changing situation.

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Also, what cross class skills should I get if I want to be a good Monk?

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Blood for Blood (Lancer)
Invigorate (Lancer)
Mercy Stroke (Marauder)

Optional:
Bloodbath
Fracture

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Originally Posted by Skaenryss

Sorry if these questions have been asked before.

But what are some common pugilist/monk macros?

Also, what cross class skills should I get if I want to be a good Monk?

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If you truly want to get good at MNK, you won't use any macros. At least not for any staple skills.

Ty guys, much appreciated.

As others have said, macros aren't really for Monk. However, they can still be convenient to use. I actively use this power up macro:

/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Blood for Blood first because it lasts longer, lining up better with DoTs, so it's better to use before the shorter and stronger Internal Release to maximize its potential. You can also set a survival macro, something like:

/ac "Second Wind" <me>
/ac "Bloodbath" <me>
/ac "Featherfoot" <me>

For if you get aggro but you can still make a recovery.

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Originally Posted by Skaenryss

Ty guys, much appreciated.

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I will say though that if your playing as an alt. Or want training wheels while your learning the movements and such. You can macro together twin snakes/snap punch and true strike/demolish

The only time this can bite you in the ass if you aren't careful is during perfect balance. Any other time both skills can't be up at the same time anyway.

My best MNK macro I've been using since 2.0 Beta.

/micon "Shoulder Tackle"
/ac "Shoulder Tackle" <t>
/ac "Steel Peak" <t>

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

As others have said, macros aren't really for Monk. However, they can still be convenient to use. I actively use this power up macro:

/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Blood for Blood first because it lasts longer, lining up better with DoTs, so it's better to use before the shorter and stronger Internal Release to maximize its potential. You can also set a survival macro, something like:

/ac "Second Wind" <me>
/ac "Bloodbath" <me>
/ac "Featherfoot" <me>

For if you get aggro but you can still make a recovery.

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buff maccro are bad. puting 2-3 buff in the same maccro mean you cant use them separatly .you dont always need to burn all your def buff at the same time.i never say this to much,stay away from maccro....

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Originally Posted by Zakard

buff maccro are bad.you want to use buff between 2 skill not back to back and puting 2-3 buff in the same maccro mean you cant use them separatly wich is really bad.you dont always need to burn all your def buff at the same time.i never say this to much,stay away from maccro....

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Have you used macros? They don't use all the buffs in order from one click, they use them one at a time, in the priority of top to bottom. To do what you said would involve /wait. In example, you can use a multi-buff macro after an attack, and it will use one, and only one buff.

Macros are fine, they're convenient and save comfortable and accessible keybinds. It's only when they don't do exactly what you would have done, in the timeline you wanted, that they're not optimal. Besides, just because you put an action into a macro, doesn't mean you can't just click it separately if you need it.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Have you used macros? They don't use all the buffs in order from one click, they use them one at a time, in the priority of top to bottom. To do what you said would involve /wait. In example, you can use a multi-buff macro after an attack, and it will use one, and only one buff.

Macros are fine, they're convenient and save comfortable and accessible keybinds. It's only when they don't do exactly what you would have done, in the timeline you wanted, that they're not optimal. Besides, just because you put an action into a macro, doesn't mean you can't just click it separately if you need it.

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Actually the other guy is right. As you said, "they use them one at a time, in the priority of top to bottom". In your first macro example if you want to use only internal release and not blood for blood you would not be able to because you have blood for blood listed in the macro first.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Actually the other guy is right. As you said, "they use them one at a time, in the priority of top to bottom". In your first macro example if you want to use only internal release and not blood for blood you would not be able to because you have blood for blood listed in the macro first.

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Zakard was not right, see the quote in my post, not the current post he has.

Regardless, what's to stop you from pressing Internal Release instead if you want Internal Release? How does that make macros something to stay away from?

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Regardless, what's to stop you from pressing Internal Release instead if you want Internal Release? How does that make macros something to stay away from?

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Either both your macro and Internal Release are in easy-to-reach locations (in which case why macro at all?), or Internal Release is in a hard to reach location (negating the entire point you have about saving space). Regardless, if you only want to hit IR in this example, you're going to have to fight the muscle memory of hitting the macro, so why not just have it separate entirely?

In regards to the

Blood for Blood <me>
Internal Release <me>

macro, its better to separate them since its only 2 buffs. I personally have the same macro, but switch these around. Based on duration, the previous B4B-IR works. Based on Utility, I will put IR first. This is because:
IR has a shorter cooldown, meaning i am free to use it in smaller fights/phases without huge penalty. With the previous Macro set up, i cant do that without going through b4b

Also, there are definitely times I want a buff, but keep my survivability up. 10% damage in turn for 25% extra damage taken? Id rather go with IR.

you should try to avoid using macros for monk, its better to weave in abilities, the only macro I've used thus far for MNK was

/ac "Demolish"
/ac "Touch of death"
(not exact but u get the idea)
It was to save 1 keybinding, but it was also quite buggy sometimes just spamming ToD even when I could Demolish, It maybe due to the nature of how i play spamming buttons to get those GCDs off /shrug, I can't think of any macros past that, that would actually be helpful to be honest, everything doing manually is always faster.