Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

Nah you cant take that old poll as the only source for a beast race request. People have been asking for more variety among the races even in the "show your support viera thread".

This request appeared quite often actually because people kept saying "I dont want another humanoid race, they will only look like Hyurs - make them more beastly - Can we play as a beast tribe?". Here we got Hrothgar now, but people compare them to Roegadyn, so much for that.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

Here's the source for the poll you're talking about I'm pretty sure.

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Was about to quote this. It's particurlarly cheeky of him to be wondering if the beastial race won because he listed viera as an example.


This all sounds so ridiculous. Coupled with the concept art that means that development has included male viera at some point but was then dropped for some reason in favor of a race that no one expected, in a manner that wouldn't fly well with the audience. It took a glitch and leaks for people to even begin mentioning a race other than viera.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Nah you cant take that old poll as the only source for a beast race feedback. People have been asking for more variety among the races even in the "show your support viera thread".
This request appeared quite often actually because people kept saying[I] "I dont want another humanoid race, they will only look like Hyurs - make them more beastly - Can we play as a beast tribe?". Here we got Hrothgar now, but people still compare them to Roegadyn, so much for that.

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It's more to show the demand of the full set of Viera more than anything, I'm actually happy the people who wanted beastmen got their Hrothgar (i love Ronzos but personally I wouldn't play one) Regardless I think it's a shame that it's still undetermined if the female counterpart will ever be released.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

Regardless I think it's a shame that it's still undetermined if the female counterpart will ever be released.

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I'm going to add to that. Not just because we don't know if they'll release the missing race-gender combos, but because with how pressed for time and resources they are, they'll likely not release female Hroths and male Viera together. They'll look the feedback over, see which side has more support, and release that to pacify the larger part of the outrage.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Because then people would've cancelled their preorders when they were still eligible for it, and had less chances to use their pre-order bonus items... is sadly what it starts to look like. They should've outright told us no male Viera, and then created an air of mystery around what was coming in its stead, instead of it being read as them building more hype for male Viera. Because it also made sense that's what they were getting at - male Viera were never shown before, so they wanted to reveal them in Tokyo, maybe even bring Matsuno over, which would've made more sense in Japan instead of anywhere else...

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Sadly I also believe that this might be one of the reasons...and yes all the hints seems to have been about male viera reveal at the japanese fanfest because they had nothing else to show and wanted some hype. I mean without the leaks we would not have known that we could get a beastial male race, so that as a surprise with no hints ingame just feel off. But hey new patch is here and still no hints on them..all of that just feels like they were an afterthought and not somehow the ones that should have come first.

So in the end I have a hard time feeling sorry for them for the backlash they received (of course as long as it remains civil). They brought this onto themselves.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

I still think some people overreacted, like they always do. This happened with Eureka too. Bluemage. But imo, asking in a friendly manner, supportive and patiently way will help much more than canceling subs and posting it in the OF. The mog station is actually asking for the reason when canceling the sub, which should be viewed as feedback.

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The thing is, that they dont ask for deep reasons when you cancel your sub so they will never get to know why someone truly left. Also if people only post about this but everyone still stays subbed, then why should they change something? Seemingly people then forgive and forget it anyway thus they still get their money and might not even need to change something. Bad press, posts with lots of likes and comments on this and them losing money might do something. But look at bluemage or Eureka. Sometimes it just feels that only the danger of losing too many people might bring change. (And theoretically they would already lose money if someone that stayed subbed all the time, decreases that, which is something I am doing right now, and I am honestly not sure if I am going to buy the expansion at all)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So in the end I have a hard time feeling sorry for them for the backlash they received (of course as long as it remains civil). They brought this onto themselves.

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I feel very sorry for them.

They had a hard decision to make. They wanted to do a beastlike race (hrothgar) because many players where asking for that. But there where also many players who wanted viera more than anything.

So SE decided to give the players both most asked races. But of course there is only 2 years developement time till shadowbringers and they had to make cuts.

I think it was the right thing to make both races rather then only one with both genders.

And honestly, the community should maybe take a step back in the future about unconfirmed assumtions. Male Viera was never being hinted at!

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Originally Posted by Laphael

And honestly, the community should maybe take a step back in the future about unconfirmed assumtions

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1.0 -> 2.0: remove genderlocks from Highlanders, Miqo'te, and Roegadyns
3.0: introduce a two-gendered race
4.x: Fran introduced. Male Viera lore established by NPCs. Not a sliver of a mention of Hrothgar in the game.

It's not a mystery why people assumed we'd be getting male Viera. Also

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Male Viera was never being hinted at!

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I won't mention again that's arguably false, as the game gave us male Viera lore. Instead, I'll say:
Neither were Hroths.

anxiously waiting on Yoshis post on the forums about this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...o1_540.png.jpg

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Neither were Hroths.

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For ppl reading forum and reddit there was a big leak basically confirming a lion-race.
Many ppl pointed that out when the discussion after paris fanfest startet and where met with deaf ears.

Don´t get me wrong, im not against male-viera. I acutally expect them next expansion or the on after.

i wouldn't call a leak hinting at something from a in game stand point like Yuguri or fran
and well pretty much all the leaks were 90% right like blue mage using scouting gear (which leads me to believe they meant dancer) or said dancer was a healer so there was always that "well they were right but also wrong at times" so really was never 100% certain.

Gonna have to say I have no interest in Male Viera or Female Hrothgar, and I find the demands of entitled players to be horribly bad taste. Citing 'it's the current year and gender doesn't exist so give us both genders or we will harass you until you do it' seems to be pretty petty.

I am a 1.0 player, and I don't really seem to recall anyone getting angry over Female Roe's or male Miqo'te not being included back then. It was a carry over from FFXI and I was fine with it.

Claiming that the dev team is somehow homophobic and sexist is probably the most laughable thing I've ever read. Pretty sure that same sex marriage is in the game, as well as plenty of strong independent women who are breaking stereotypes.

General consensus from what I've seen is everyone wants them to be small petite bunny boys. .. And we all know they'll probably be used nefariously by Balmung.

If they ever add them, I am sure they'll be tall and muscular and everyone will be angry about gender stereotypes and blah blah blah. The level of entitlement is off the charts, given that the amount of likes / views / replies this thread has gotten is nearly nowhere indicative of the entire population of the game, and most people I have spoken to outside of this forum, or reddit, have no desire for rabbits.

Seems like another victim of the outrage culture. "Please make this game inclusive." And then when the Devs do, the people pushing inclusivity don't even play the game.

So yeah, whatever, be mad. I'll be over here enjoying Gunbreaker and hanging out with big cat boys and rabbit girls. More for me.

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Originally Posted by Karious

I am a 1.0 player, and I don't really seem to recall anyone getting angry over Female Roe's or male Miqo'te not being included back then. It was a carry over from FFXI and I was fine with it.

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Given your join date is now, I'm not surprised you missed this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...emale-Roegadyn
People were angry about it then, and they're angry and disappointed with it now

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Originally Posted by Karious

Snip

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Well firstly.

People who claim homophobia and sexism are in my opinion wrong. However it's concerning that after 2 expansions the dev team still seems to be struggling with optimizing their workflow and being understaffed, there SHOULD be a a system in place to deal easily with gear bloat and it's effect on modeling.

My issue is less with the dev team and more with the fact that this game seems to get little to no support from Square compared to games like KH 3 and XV both that despite being financial successes, had varying degrees of quality in their completion and had DLC planned for them to fix glaring issues of incompleteness or confusion with the story. Square should be allocating more resources and staff to this game outside of the fan festival, I know people are going to cite nomura working on Eden or the other guest collaborators as examples but, still those aren't new core additions to the staff at hand.

There are also other glaring issues with XIV's core code and backend problems that just have not been addressed despite us again going through 2 expansions.

Besides that the rest of your post is anecdotal and just sort of shows you haven't really read many of the responses in this thread.

1.0 player without legacy goobbue or chocobo

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...54/591/17c.png

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Originally Posted by Karious

Gonna have to say I have no interest in Male Viera or Female Hrothgar, and I find the demands of entitled players to be horribly bad taste. Citing 'it's the current year and gender doesn't exist so give us both genders or we will harass you until you do it' seems to be pretty petty.

I am a 1.0 player, and I don't really seem to recall anyone getting angry over Female Roe's or male Miqo'te not being included back then. It was a carry over from FFXI and I was fine with it.

Claiming that the dev team is somehow homophobic and sexist is probably the most laughable thing I've ever read. Pretty sure that same sex marriage is in the game, as well as plenty of strong independent women who are breaking stereotypes.

General consensus from what I've seen is everyone wants them to be small petite bunny boys. .. And we all know they'll probably be used nefariously by Balmung.

If they ever add them, I am sure they'll be tall and muscular and everyone will be angry about gender stereotypes and blah blah blah. The level of entitlement is off the charts, given that the amount of likes / views / replies this thread has gotten is nearly nowhere indicative of the entire population of the game, and most people I have spoken to outside of this forum, or reddit, have no desire for rabbits.

Seems like another victim of the outrage culture. "Please make this game inclusive." And then when the Devs do, the people pushing inclusivity don't even play the game.

So yeah, whatever, be mad. I'll be over here enjoying Gunbreaker and hanging out with big cat boys and rabbit girls. More for me.

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How do you think male miqote and female roegadyn got added to the game? Do you think SE just added them out of the blue with no one asking for them?

For someone claiming everyone else to be "mad", your post seems awfully bitter compared to the general positivity going on in the thread. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Given your join date is now, I'm not surprised you missed this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...emale-Roegadyn
People were angry about it then, and they're angry and disappointed with it now

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Considering I've never touched these forums until people started screeching about how they are being personally wronged by this whole ordeal, I figured it was time to actually register for the forums. I'll definitely take a look at the linked thread, but I sure as heck don't remember anyone complaining in-game back in the day.

If they add these two genders eventually, sure, great. However, if we end up missing out on potential content because people couldn't stop harassing the Dev team, I would be pretty annoyed. I'd rather have content and stuff to do, than a Viera guy to oogle at.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Considering I've never touched these forums until people started screeching about how they are being personally wronged by this whole ordeal, I figured it was time to actually register for the forums. I'll definitely take a look at the linked thread, but I sure as heck don't remember anyone complaining in-game back in the day.

If they add these two genders eventually, sure, great. However, if we end up missing out on potential content because people couldn't stop harassing the Dev team, I would be pretty annoyed. I'd rather have content and stuff to do, than a Viera guy to oogle at.

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No one is harassing the dev team, and why people assume making race models take up time for new content most likely already in development as if the Dev team just stops what their doing to work on new content one at a time, is utterly beyond me. Also keep in mind Eureka was delayed by a patch if I recall, so content being late is nothing new that would break the community.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

My issue is less with the dev team and more with the fact that this game seems to get little to no support from Square compared to games like KH 3 and XV both that despite being financial successes, had varying degrees of quality in their completion and had DLC planned for them to fix glaring issues of incompleteness or confusion with the story. Square should be allocating more resources and staff to this game outside of the fan festival, I know people are going to cite nomura working on Eden or the other guest collaborators as examples but, still those aren't new core additions to the staff at hand.

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Sadly XIV suffers from that too, as a lot of story elements make it into the stories they release on the lodestone. I recently found out Fordola's story continued in one of the Tales of the Storm chapters...

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Originally Posted by Karious

If they add these two genders eventually, sure, great. However, if we end up missing out on potential content because people couldn't stop harassing the Dev team, I would be pretty annoyed.

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People keep bringing that up but what content would that even be? And when answering, take into consideration that the developers who would be in charge of making the new models and animations (the bulk of the work, imo) are likely mutually exclusive to many other endeavors such as battle and content design.
Personally, if what it ends up chewing resources from is BLU and Eureka, I really wouldn't mind, and I'm sure there are others who would share that sentiment (even if not regarding those particular bits of content).

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Quoted text.[/IMG]

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It might surprise you, but there is such a thing as losing access to an email account tied to a Square Enix account from almost a decade ago. My current account is through steam, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Quoted text.

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Between here in the forums, Reddit, and Tumblr, I have seen a lot of salt thrown at the dev team. While it is not the majority, it is roughly 30 to 40 percent of posts filled with such vitriol that makes me dismay for the games community. I love this game, and I appreciate everything that they're attempting to do for us. (Though, I do hope their healer rework actually goes somewhere constructive.)

I do apologize for coming off initially hostile about this situation, but after reading pages of nothing but "ADD THIS OR I QUIT OR WILL BRING IT UP EVERY LIVE LETTER" kinda does grate on you after a while. If the more vocal members of this forum would chill the heck out, it'd probably be more constructive.

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Originally Posted by Karious

I do apologize for coming off initially hostile about this situation, but after reading pages of nothing but "ADD THIS OR I QUIT OR WILL BRING IT UP EVERY LIVE LETTER" kinda does grate on you after a while. If the more vocal members of this forum would chill the heck out, it'd probably be more constructive.

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Telling the devs people will quit over this is constructive, assuming some of them actually go through with it. :)

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Telling the devs people will quit over this is constructive, assuming some of them actually go through with it. :)

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

People keep bringing that up but what content would that even be? And when answering, take into consideration that the developers who would be in charge of making the new models and animations (the bulk of the work, imo) are likely mutually exclusive to many other endeavors such as battle and content design.
Personally, if what it ends up chewing resources from is BLU and Eureka, I really wouldn't mind, and I'm sure there are others who would share that sentiment (even if not regarding those particular bits of content).

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Two posts of yours to reply to, so I'll just lump them together.

As you've stated on the previous page, actually, yeah, I'd agree with you on Eureka. If there was more 'content' like that, and we had to miss out, I doubt I would miss it. What I would miss is the potential for additional items from the housing item design contests not being implemented, or outfits from the gear design contests not being implemented as a result of having to restructure their work output. If it's possible for the dev team to structure their workload appropriately, that'd be wonderful.

In regards to people quitting. It's actually not constructive at all. Especially given that we've got the mogstation, and essentially microtransactions. If you are invested in the video game community at all, it's known that Microtransactions are the driving force of most companies profits. And while I cannot be sure to the ratio of monthly sub value vs. Mogstation revenue, I doubt that people quitting would really make too much of an impact. They tried this recently with Anthem and the game is still chugging along thanks to the 10% of players who consistently buy stuff from their cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Karious

opinion

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You are allowed your opinion, as are we all. But please don't discount the opinions of other players. This issue is a culmination of things, not just the lack of a gender counterpart. It's a combo that includes, but is not limited to; misleading the playerbase, back tracking on a previous statement, using "lore" as an excuse, and limiting the inclusivity this game is supposed to provide compared to other current MMOs.

There are many things people "request" but based on the time frame, those request will get mixed in with the current info given to us by the developers. The playerbase have been requesting 3 main things: Viera, another shorter/cuter male from a sexual dimorphic race with larger females, and a more beastial race.

With the Viera, people saw the concept art and were expecting the males to look similar to the females, but did hope they could get the shorter/cuter male out of it as well, since males have no model; and if they were more beastial, bonus. Players also wanted a more beastial race since, every race we have is basically "human" with different ears. But that includes wanting a female beastial option. And the game has many options for short/cute female characters, but only one "real" option for males. Most people just wanted another option, regardless of race.

SE decided to tackle 2 of those 3 requests. But by limiting the genders, they alienated various portions of the playerbase. SE mislead us about Viera, they created the female Hrothgar demand, and by pairing up the two created the gender stereotyping debate. All things that could of been prevented if they had just released one race with both genders.

What they did is not homophobic, nor is it stereotyping. But based on things they have done it appears that way. The initial outrage has decreased some and the players are making more "muted" statements. However, we as a playerbase have to stick together and make SE realize what they did was wrong. Based on a recent interview it looks like Yoshi-P realizes this, as he said in the future they should give a bit more info about certain things so that fan outcry is mitigated. He referenced the Dancer/Healer issue, but it applies to other things, like a race announcement too.

Hey all. Pretty disappointed that we aren't getting male viera, as I've had a character that's supposed to have been one for a story I'm writing. Really breaks my heart that it had to come to this, as I know that I'm not the only person that had hopes for male Viera. Anyway, I just hope that now that some time has passed, and the initial shock has worn away, that people can be reasonable about this. It's awful that they didn't get added, and it really does break my heart, but if there's any chance that we could get them in the future, I hope the deva won't add them just because some entitled fans screamed down their throats, but because the game itself would be better for it. I'm really hoping for the best. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

SE decided to tackle 2 of those 3 requests. But by limiting the genders, they alienated various portions of the playerbase. SE mislead us about Viera, they created the female Hrothgar demand, and by pairing up the two created the gender stereotyping debate. All things that could of been prevented if they had just released one race with both genders.

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Huh. This is an incredibly interesting point to make.
I'd say according to the poll they alienated quite a bit of the playerbase.

No, because it will increase the ERP that needs to be eradicated as this being a fantasy MMORPG by a respected team of SE mostly from dev. team 4) people need to play at, not sitting in their housing/Limsa all the day fapping.
I would cut in half the editor possibilities if it was me and remove all the emotes from the game, increasing the gear impact and stat. numbers, bringing back accuracy and make everything ways more deep system-wise and less casual friendly.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

A well written and informative response.

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Okay, this makes sense. I guess much of the anger here on the forum itself has subsided, which I only read through the first sixty pages of this topic myself to see what the heck is going on. Over on Tumblr people are still SEETHING about this whole thing and just a complete nightmare to talk to and try to get any reasonable response.

I suppose it was short-sighted of me to come here with the same expectation based on current trends from other sites and prior posts from last week from here. I apologize for being a bully about it initially.

Either way, I am glad the Square Enix is attempting to cater to the wants of various parts of the community, and it was probably a difficult decision; as I know the budget for XIV isn't ever really all that big and a lot of the profits go to other projects and games. You'd think with as many fans the game has, and as much money as it brings in; the execs would be a little more willing to throw more people and money at XIV. :/

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Originally Posted by Karious

Okay, this makes sense. I guess much of the anger here on the forum itself has subsided, which I only read through the first sixty pages of this topic myself to see what the heck is going on. Over on Tumblr people are still SEETHING about this whole thing and just a complete nightmare to talk to and try to get any reasonable response.

I suppose it was short-sighted of me to come here with the same expectation based on current trends from other sites and prior posts from last week from here. I apologize for being a bully about it initially.

Either way, I am glad the Square Enix is attempting to cater to the wants of various parts of the community, and it was probably a difficult decision; as I know the budget for XIV isn't ever really all that big and a lot of the profits go to other projects and games. You'd think with as many fans the game has, and as much money as it brings in; the execs would be a little more willing to throw more people and money at XIV. :/

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No harm done, I appreciate you took the time to consider our viewpoints. The initial ugliness on the forums was mostly a knee-jerk reaction to the news. People were just overreacting and losing their damn minds over it. I think now that some time has passed people are much more willing to be constructive and reasonable in their requests.

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Originally Posted by Yun_Tsuri

No, because it will increase the ERP that needs to be eradicated as this being a fantasy MMORPG by a respected team of SE mostly from dev. team 4) people need to play at, not sitting in their housing/Limsa all the day fapping.
I would cut in half the editor possibilities if it was me and remove all the emotes from the game, increasing the gear impact and stat. numbers, bringing back accuracy and make everything ways more deep system-wise and less casual friendly.

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You sound like you'd be fun at a party.

All petty jokes aside. The arguments against Male viera because "fanservice" are weak. What is wrong with fanservice? What's wrong with wanting to be am attractive looking character? Why is ERP bad?

This is absolutely ridiculous, sex sells and people like sexy things! This shaming by some is perhaps the weakest argument!

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Originally Posted by Kazran

You sound like you'd be fun at a party.

All petty jokes aside. The arguments against Male viera because "fanservice" are weak. What is wrong with fanservice? What's wrong with wanting to be am attractive looking character? Why is ERP bad?

This is absolutely ridiculous, sex sells and people like sexy things! This shaming by some is perhaps the weakest argument!

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I don't need to explain you what's bad in ERP when it comes to an MMORPG; I don't get paid for that even, just know it's bad by common sense.
Like I've said this is a fantasy MMORPG made by some people who made history in SE such Akihiko Yoshida (character designer of FF12, FFT and even FF14 1.0), stop insulting their work with your depravated way to play MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Yun_Tsuri

No, because it will increase the ERP that needs to be eradicated as this being a fantasy MMORPG by a respected team of SE mostly from dev. team 4) people need to play at, not sitting in their housing/Limsa all the day fapping.
I would cut in half the editor possibilities if it was me and remove all the emotes from the game, increasing the gear impact and stat. numbers, bringing back accuracy and make everything ways more deep system-wise and less casual friendly.

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This game's focus isn't and hopefully never will be on combat and numbers. Other MMO's do that in spades; this is the one that's actually fun because it's story- and character-driven, and emotes and customization are extremely important in facilitating that.

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Originally Posted by Yun_Tsuri

I don't need to explain you what's bad in ERP when it comes to an MMORPG; I don't get paid for that even, just know it's bad by common sense.
Like I've said this is a fantasy MMORPG made by some people who made history in SE such Akihiko Yoshida (character designer of FF12, FFT and even FF14 1.0), stop insulting their work with your depravated way to play MMOs.

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Okay erm, first off calm down.
Second of, what people mod, and do in their private housing can't really be regulated, sadly. Am i excusing the practice? No, but It's also irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
So why even bother embarrassing the thread by assuming people who want male Viera exclusively want it for such purposes, you don't appear to have an issue with the female variant of that same race literally wearing lingerie as starter gear.
In fact, the armor in this MMO is incredibly conservative compared to any other MMO out there on the market right now, as is the fanservice of the male races.
So what exactly is the issue with a literal male with bunny ears, like seriously, its a previously established race in the FF history, and this is a FF themepark.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

Going by your own standard, people in this thread basically want Miqo'te male sized Viera (same height to a head shorter than the fem Viera) does this mean you should be considered a creep for playing a literal cat girl? Are lalafels a race for creeps?
Just food for thought.

(ofc you aren't, but automatically making assumptions about people because they want a different height ratio is kinda, rude? like, you're starting a fight when there is none????)

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I think we all can agree on a point that small body type != creep. Else many games which involve small male's would be considered weird and in a sense, should actually put off people. But it doesnt.
Here some examples:

Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora:

https://i.imgur.com/B1fwoij.jpg

NieR: Automata 9s:

https://i.imgur.com/7FM3qfI.png

and especially Blade and Soul, male Lyn:

https://i.imgur.com/niespJ7.jpg

People are exaggerating with that. While I am also against anything shota-loli related, those requests can be misinterpreted. Anything child-sized is already covered by popoto's, everything else I'd consider a young teenager - best example in FFXIV Alphinaud. Male Miqo'te can look like young teenagers as well, if done right. And imo, we dont need another small race, rather a body type that is elegant, handsome and slim.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Snip

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Please leave alphinaud alone, he's a boy of only 16 summers.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Please leave alphinaud alone, he's a boy of only 16 summers.

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So is Sora, and I do think 9s was meant to look boyish, so neither are good examples, especially in the context of erp discussion. Granted the age of consent in Japan is younger than in the west, but given the reason why they didn't put MGP awards on Mahjong, those foreign laws would definitely be taken into consideration when they decide how to design male Vieras (or any race for that matter). Especially given they had already cited before we would not receive younger models like Alphinaud because they know people would erp with them.
The question boils down more to - would they be able to design them in that manner and still have them appear mature, as is the case with female Au Ra and Miqo'te. But I think that if they could (or would...), male Miqo'te might've been smaller already.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

I think we all can agree on a point that small body type != creep. Else many games which involve small male's would be considered weird and in a sense, should actually put off people. But it doesnt.
Here some examples:

Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora:

https://i.imgur.com/B1fwoij.jpg

NieR: Automata 9s:

https://i.imgur.com/7FM3qfI.png

and especially Blade and Soul, male Lyn:

https://i.imgur.com/niespJ7.jpg

People are exaggerating with that. While I am also against anything shota-loli related, those requests can be misinterpreted. Anything child-sized is already covered by popoto's, everything else I'd consider a young teenager - best example in FFXIV Alphinaud.

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I agree with that.
Sora, 9S and Lyn are very popular among gamers, and especially the female crowd.
Alphinaud is practically the canon age and has the physique of a typical shounen protagonist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So I don't blame people for wanting a short bishie. Personally, I'd prefer their height to fit with the females and then for there to be a slider that goes downward but nothing more than a head shorter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

Going by your own standard, people in this thread basically want Miqo'te male sized Viera (same height to a head shorter than the fem Viera) does this mean you should be considered a creep for playing a literal cat girl?

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Sorry, I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. The people that want small, shots viera are creeps. I just didn't want to say the word itself, I figured saying so was enough. It creeps me the hell out and I know shotacons are rallying behind Male viera, and sexual dimorphism for them to be small. It makes me sick that they'd be taking advantage of a situation like this so they can demand sexualized little boys. Makes me sick and angry.

Also, weren't people angry about the sexual dimorphism with Au'Ra? Why are they demanding it now? Why is it okay now just because it's males?

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

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That's a really presumptuous generality to make. Sure there are probably disgusting, horrible creeps who want that but there are plenty of people in this forum alone who have given other, reasonable reasons.

For example:
Rabbit males are smaller irl, modeling races based off animals and keeping their traits in mind is a part of developmental creation.
It's an opportunity to turn sexual dimorphism on its head in a very solid way
The idea of male viera being very territorial and fierce and smaller is a wholly unique and intriguing combination

I would absolutely hate if male viera are made so cute that it looks shota-like and its a fear I have about that. But I've been reading this thread for a LONG while since the early pages and to generally state that those who want smaller viera are creeps who just want them cute and shota-like is massively incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

I agree with that.
Sora, 9S and Lyn are very popular among gamers, and especially the female crowd.
Alphinaud is practically the canon age and has the physique of a typical shounen protagonist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So I don't blame people for wanting a short bishie. Personally, I'd prefer their height to fit with the females and then for there to be a slider that goes downward but nothing more than a head shorter.

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Can you slap these characters in questionable clothing and then engage with innuendo with them? Or do all of the above during RP that some folks are subjected to? That's the issue some folks have, I believe. I honestly have no desire to take part in that, but it will happen. It happens with the lala's it will happen with any other race - it's still bad. But I agree with you if there's going to be more dimorphism then how you described it is something I can be happy with.

Bah, I don't understand why folks want dimorphism when instead they should be asking for an update in the character creator in regards to height scales for all races. Sexual dimorphism sucks, it sticks people into a certain body type that in some regards doesn't suit the character at all. We should be asking for more options in the creator not to shoehorn people into a specific body type. Or that the females/males should have the same height ranges - just have the scale be a little vaster.

I hope it's the first that race where both genders match in height and the two of them basically have the same height ranges - where the average height for both is the same.

Also, the au'ra dimorphism is idiotic and should not be repeated. Like yeah, it's not that the females are stupidly small - it's the fact the males are so very very tall.

I just know they let girls date Ken (a grade school student) in P3P. :v They changed it in the West to just be a one-sided crush on Ken's part, but in Japan it was a full on romance like any of the others. So I guess there is an audience for this sort of thing at least in Japan?

I don't even try to pretend I understand women so I'm not gonna judge. I'm too gay for that.

Sexual dimorphism can be turned on its head without making the male viera disgustingly shota, simply having them be shorter in general would do that! It'd be nice to see simply because its breaking the norm of character design. Even in a way that mirrors irl rabbits - which I had no idea that male bunnies were smaller!