Character Creation Has A Race Problem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Telling someone glamour doesn’t represent religion =/= race war stuff. Just pointing that out.

---

Regardless. It's off-topic and adds nothing to the request. Even I stopped posting. Thread is even worse than before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

brick wall

---

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. You misunderstood my original point and you're misunderstanding me now. The point is they mean nothing in the FFXIV canon. They're not representative, they're meaningless references taken from IRL. The point against more ethnic features was that this is a fantasy game that shouldn't borrow from IRL. This is direct borrowing from IRL with no lore or explanation behind it that was seen as perfectly acceptable.

And they didn't choose that halo, though. They chose the famous Western depiction associated with Christianity, along with robes and wings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Regardless. It's off-topic and adds nothing to the request. Even I stopped posting. Thread is even worse than before.

---

The entire thread is off-topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The entire thread is off-topic.

---

OP was perfectly on-topic with FFXIV. But whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

It's a reference to a real life religion being put directly into the game without regard to "lore", which is, supposedly, bad.

---

These are the kind of people that would cry cultural appropriation if they actually got their way and likely the same ones who did complain about the New World stuff.

Can a mod close this thing? It's just a place to breed stupidity at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

20% is not small by any means, and certainly not small enough to justify the poor representation in media. 1 in 5 is a significant amount considering the number of characters in any given TV show or film, and even more so among the number of notable celebrities. Multi-culturalism is growing, but there will always be closet racists who dig in their heels and cause an uproar. I didn't agree with the Chinese dress being cultural appropriation, and from what I saw, neither did most people, Chinese or not.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

Scroll down to "White population by state"

In the grand scheme of things, yes, it is. Now that does not mean we cannot strive for better representation in areas where it's lacking, but that also means you will never have completely equal representation because Western civilization isn't equally diverse. Nor is any developed nation the world over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Yes, it's clearly their fault they're under-represented. They enjoy being held to white standards for beauty across all media and having to see themselves as either awkward caricatures or not at all. There is no sexism or racism or bias, and to imply otherwise and make the majority uncomfortable is just plain rude and insensitive.

It must be a lovely little bubble you live in.

---

Considering you literally put words in my mouth, I could say the same to you. Please. Quote where I said there is no sexism or racism in the world. If you bothered to read, you'll have noticed I said precisely the opposite. Likewise, I said they are at fault for blaming everyone else as though some invisible boogeyman is holding them back. Statistics have argued against numerous claims of supposed "oppression" yet they're often ignored or purposely misrepresented. They aren't being held to any standard, at least to the extent you're insinuating, otherwise you wouldn't see Beyoncé cited as one of the most beautiful women in the world. But, of course, let's blame everything on that boogeyman again. Maybe you need to step outside your bubble and stop following Internet trends.

This is the exact reason blaming everything on racism and sexism causes far greater problems than it ever helps. You devalue their significance when those issues are, in fact, genuine. Of course, my saying racism and sexism aren't nearly as prevalent you're insinuating somehow means they don't exist. Need to establish that black and white dichotomy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. You misunderstood my original point and you're misunderstanding me now. The point is they mean nothing in the FFXIV canon. They're not representative, they're meaningless references taken from IRL. The point against more ethnic features was that this is a fantasy game that shouldn't borrow from IRL. This is direct borrowing from IRL with no lore or explanation behind it that was seen as perfectly acceptable.

---

I’m not even referencing your argument about race; I’m just responding to your misinformed stance on three sets of glamour being representative of entire religions. How am I misunderstanding your original statement about religious representation in this game when you said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

There are even references to real world religions in this game.

---

And when asked what you meant by religious references:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

What "references to real world religions" are you meaning exactly? I can't think of any.

---

You responded as such:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Taoism, from the glamour. Angels and devils, Christianity.

---

The Taoist glamour isn’t representative of Taoism. Angels and devils is a common literary archetype that isn’t just present in Christianity. Borrowing archetypes that don’t follow a single strict religion is common in all forms of media.

My point was you’re reaching by saying glamour options represent religions. And that I gave you way too much credit when I cited actual loose real-life religious/mythological/folklore references made in FFXIV:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m guessing they’re referring to Ishgard’s religion as an approximation of Catholicism? Or the talk of a lot of Domans of the “Kami”, which could refer to Japanese Shintoism. That’s the only references I can make.

Or they’re referring to the names of certain primals, since a lot of them derive their names from real-life mythology or folklore, though their in-game counterpart can either be similar to real life, or borrowing just the name with regards to likeness; it varies— Lakshmi is an actual Hindu goddess (the goddess of wealth, fortune, and prosperity). Susano-o, Tsukuyomi, and the Four Lords all also have ties to Japanese mythology/folklore: The first two are part of the Kojiki, a compilation of Japanese origin myths; and the Four Lords originally come from Chinese mythology as gods denoted by constellations, but also have representation/presence in Japanese mythology.

Those aren’t the only ones— a quick search will show you that a lot of the primals have real-world counterparts in various different mythologies: Ifrit has Middle Eastern references, Leviathan has references in the Hebrew Bible, Garuda has references in Hinduism and Buddhism.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The entire thread is off-topic.

---

OP was perfectly on-topic with FFXIV. She wasn't talking about, Jesus, taoism, devils,, angels, religion, New York's racial demographics, and Pokemon characters that are geared towards children who likely don't even care or understand race.

EDIT: Whoops.. don't know how that happened. Thing said I couldn't post..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

OP was perfectly on-topic with FFXIV. She wasn't talking about, Jesus, taoism, devils,, angels, religion, New York's racial demographics, and Pokemon characters that are geared towards children who likely don't even care or understand race.

---

I’d think video games in general would be a place where no one has to care about any of the above. But alas, apparently they are not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

snip

---

I said major cities. And 20% is not a small or insignificant number by any stretch. It's almost a quarter of the population.

So you agree representation can be improved. But you don't agree that racism is behind it?

Quote:

---

.

---

You've agreed representation can be improved. But you believe that blaming racism and sexism for these problems is wrong, inferring that it isn't an issue. So what exactly is the cause then? Where do you think racism actually exists? You think they're the ones stopping themselves from having better representation? What statistics are you citing? One black artist being a success in a saturated industry isn't exactly a winning argument, and there are issues surrounding that itself I'm not going into.

Well, I'm confused then. What problems do you judge to be actual racial issues, and more importantly, what evidence do you have to prove this lack of prevalence?