Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shazarak

You lost the reason for why you should play a game: to HAVE FUN!

So, until we get PVP there's no reason complaining and crying about a class or another.
You should play whatever fits your playstyle and whatever you like most!

......

---

Not a bad perspective aside from all the childish insults, but never mind those. What you don't seem to understand is that class performance is part of what makes the game fun for some people.

By the way I wasn't crying or calling out for nerfs, I was legitimately considering a change to bard because it is simply superior in almost every way. For balance I think it will take both buffs and nerfs for all the classes. It will also take redesigning the content to be more melee friendly. Oh and the net code needs to be fixed too because right now to dodge something you need to move instantly or better yet be already moving which is bad for everyone but least so for bards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

200 potency ability on monk? omg how!? the only 200 potency attack you get is Mercy Stroke from MRD!

---

Demolish and Touch of Death

I find it amusing when a bard is telling other people nothing is wrong you just need to enjoy your own class and never mind how much better the bard is over every other dps in the game.

When one class is so much better than the other classes in its role that no one wants anything OTHER than that class in end game you have a serious problem. Ideally a game company would buff the other classes but realistically what always happens is a huge swing of a nerf bat to bring the one class back down in line with the others.

I think a lot of the "issues" come from them replacing conj with pug for this job. It gave us a bit more on the dps end then a support role. Our initial damage has just gone up and the song debuffs have remained the same.

I am not totally against a nerf to this job, but how to nerf it is the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shazarak

...fun Fun FUN!!!111 x9345734895...

---

I like the attitude, though it starts to border on lunacy a bit there. What you fail to understand is this game is an MMO, you know, Masively Multiplayer, playing with other people.

Soloing as MNK is fine, even though you are gimped in a sense since almost every single offensive ability performs to full capacity only from Flanking/Behind position. Plus we don't have the DEF/HP/Dodge to offset the gimped offense.

Group play, where it really matters. It -is- harder to get groups as melee, because the downsides outweigh the upsides. Can we compete? Yes, by being geared (reread last sentence) and playing harder than other classes. You also have 3 or 7 other peoples' time and effort to take into account when grouping, I can't say "hey guys take me instead, i know won't be as effective as random_class_01 but hey, i'm having FUN FUN FUN!!!"

Not to sound cynical, but your almost Cult like propaganda about 'only having fun' is borderline creepy and way off the mark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulwyf

snip

---

That is because everyone keeps saying something is wrong with the job and that other jobs need a buff when that isn't the solution. How the hell is a buff to melee going to change anything when you can't even stay on the damn mob without being a total MP sink? Brd isn't overpowered, the mobs we have to fight are unbalanced. Sooner people get that through their heads the sooner they can look at possible buffs to tanks or nerfs to AOE damage which make people turn to one job over others. Has nothing to do with the job itself and everything to do with the fights.

If there was a way to mitigate damage done from the AOE attacks in a realistic and feasible way you'd see very quickly brd isn't this overpowered job you think it is.

I don't think BRD's need a nerf at all. All nerfing a class does is just piss off the people who main it and it is a developer's lazy way out of balancing other classes. The thing that makes BRD powerful in some situations is the fact there is minimal requirement on their end to perform damage, while DRG and MNK have to deal with positioning and dodging out of their damage range, giving BRD a big advantage. Now does that mean they should decrease BRD damage output? No, because on a boss that requires no dodging from any class, it is pretty well balanced out (Maybe a small percentage that shouldn't be taken seriously.).

I think the best solution would be to make it more forgiving on DPS for MNK and DRG when they are forced to dodge obstacles. Its a tough call because in a situation where dodging isn't heavily required, it would create an unbalance in the other department. I have never been a fan of the position system in general. It is more of a hindrance than a skill. Take a boss like Demon Wall for example. As a Dragoon, my Chaos Thrust combo is completely useless because you cannot get behind him. Or Monk for that matter that can only attack the front also. Giving ranged DPS a big advantage in that fight. I think getting rid of positioning for attacks may benefit more. I guess you can argue against that and I won't say you are wrong, but I have played both BRD and DRG, and BRD feels effortless to play in comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shazarak

Gamers should focus only on having fun!
Here we have just one problem: BRD is quite too easy to play with and not even fun enough compared to other classes!

There's no other valid complaint on the Earth for someone who is searching for FUN!

---

Its fun when youre working 3 times as hard as some other guy but due to game design youre still underperforming and are less welcome in grps compared to him?

And if we look at PvP then your argument goes completely out the window - no balance, no fun.

Bards damage is crap compared to BLM. Please shut up and move on with the trolling, i'm going to reroll Bard tonight after getting fucking Relic and full DL gear. Fuck this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trayes

Bards damage while singing songs
People say they lose 20% damage while singing songs while ignoring the fact that they have a trait that increases their damage by 20%. Bards are over par while not singing songs and where they should be while singing songs.

---

Raging Strikes? That's a bit misleading. Raging Strikes has a relatively short duration and a long recast time. I have to play Mage's Ballad quite a bit, often until my MP completely runs out, and Raging Strikes is either not back up yet or can only be used for a small portion of that time.

Add one more op in the list posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tatou

I advocate a nerf as an avid bard player. Weeds out all the people who play Bard just for the fact that he's strong. I love my bard and don't want to see him abused by the FotM trainhoppers. :o

---

If Musketeer comes out that will do a good job of doing that as well. And what happens if they make more caster classes, and ppl still don't want melee....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jotunhammer

Im liking this. Bards SHOULD be support class. Regen health, Haste, bolster ac, lift spirits (give mana) etc, but in a way that it is compensating for the bard NOT doing any damage, since he is busy playing his tunes. a class completely different from MMO's so far, that does not care about damage but rather uses his songs to win the battle.

---

That's not "completely different from MMOs." Everquest had a true Bard that was full support and had a ton of situational abilities. Vanguard even allowed Bards to build their own songs to piece together songs useful in specific fights/situations. FFXIV is the one that has Archers with a couple of bonus abilities.

it si pretty easy right now every job(dps)can do aroound200-250 dps.
but when u have to avoid aoes and run etc everyjob dps goes down to 170-200 where bard can do their 250 dps still.
BARD MUST get a cast time on their 1 spam botton,or get combos that they need go the side or behind mob.
right now they are a god mode,0 cast skill,0 position requirement,0 combo skill,the same dps that every job,the best support skill of all jobs.
who cant see this it is because he is a bard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mushashi

BARD MUST get a cast time on their 1 spam botton,or get combos that they need go the side or behind mob.

---

As much as id like to see the skill cap raised for bards, this is not something id implement on a ranged class.

Imagine 4 cones coming out of the mob - front, back and sides. Those are the areas you have to be in to fire off positional skills. Right at the mob the cone is quite narrow, you can move from one positional requirement to another in half a second. Thats melee range. The further away you get the wider the cone becomes. At max range youd need 3-4 seconds (or more) to move from one to another. It's just not viable, especially that the mob will often turn to to launch special attacks at players or to follow the tank who had to move to the side to avoid aoe. For melee its a bit of a challenge, for ranged it would just be impossible... unless they stayed in melee all the time, which defeats the purpose of being a ranged class.

Making different bard shots have different range requirements (close, medium, max) on the other hand... I could see that working if done right.

BRD's dont need nerfs. Melee just need buffs to the point where BRD's arnt out dpsing them all the time.

I for one am kind of jealous about having to use combos and positioning, that's why I'm levelling a lancer.. lvl 34 right now enjoying it so far :)

I was a bard in FFXI and I loved the fact that I was a support tool. Highest exp runs happened with a bard in a group pulling like a crazy person with a severe impulse problem. I didn't need to DPS cause my ability to buff the casters, then the DPSers, and debuff the enemy all in one shot allowed everyone else to destroy things faster than they could have alone. There weren't many of us around cause no one wanted to take a back seat, but then again it was nearly impossible at the time to do more than 10k exp/hr without one. I don't think they need to be nerfed. I think that the songs should be the most important feature of them again. Instead of giving a -20% damage debuff for singing mages ballad for instance, I think that the bard should get a permanent -20% damage debuff on them unless they have a song active. Keeps them doing damage, but for shorter intervals as they have to recharge for the next song due to MP, and it makes them support a party again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7thPawn

I was a bard in FFXI and I loved the fact that I was a support tool. Highest exp runs happened with a bard in a group pulling like a crazy person with a severe impulse problem. I didn't need to DPS cause my ability to buff the casters, then the DPSers, and debuff the enemy all in one shot allowed everyone else to destroy things faster than they could have alone. There weren't many of us around cause no one wanted to take a back seat, but then again it was nearly impossible at the time to do more than 10k exp/hr without one. I don't think they need to be nerfed. I think that the songs should be the most important feature of them again...

---

I didn't play FFXI but this is exactly what I was hoping from a Bard class. As a musician in real-life, it appeals to me :). Also, I'm just general a support class kind of guy (main is healer). I'm actually just starting to level Archer to get a Bard in the hopes it turns into this :P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kalfis049

BRD's dont need nerfs. Melee just need buffs to the point where BRD's arnt out dpsing them all the time.

---

Melee need buff and barb need a nerfing at the same time.

bard dps is fine(on line with others dps) and dont need nerfs.
only add 1 sec or 2 sec cast time to heavy shot and they wont can do 100 % of their dps on every situation as now.
i repeat bards dps isnt overpower, it is their movility that it is op

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neoreturn

Melee need buff and barb need a nerfing at the same time.

---

so you want them to make your class OP? you are very jaded and see this only from your POV and cant seem to imagine how nerfs and buffs impact a game. all yours posts offer only jabs at the class and mechanics yet you offer NO real or sencible idea. nerf bards dps im okay, fine. but adding cast timers is not the way to fix the class. they are about being moble and if you take this away all they become is another caster with a bow. did you ever think that maybe SE had "highly mobil dps" in mind for the bard to begin with. dont request huge changes in class mechanics things can be solved better with actual thought. other than you just stating that there OP and thats that..

so bards dont want nerf to their damage neitehr to their mobility....
now every class is doing the same dps but every class have to loose dps to go out os aoes or mobs changing position so melles loose dps,or casters need cut spells for evade aoes etc.
bards loose 0 dps with all this so in a real coil fight bards gonna do allways the 100 % of their damage where others jobs only the 70-80%.
add here that bards is the only class with real bufs and we have because many fc are stacking 2-3bards.
Im sorry but bards really needs a nerf,or to their dps,or movility or bufs.
who cant see this is because they are bias or dontknow toomuch about mmorpgs

So much QQ...Bards arent the TOP DPS...BLMS and SMN are....

Good Monks do a lot of damage its not that behind from BRD depending on which boss, and DRG buffs piercing so 10% its your damage.

due to boss mechanics melee will never be able to have contant DPS thats just a fact that needs to be accepted. as for bards and i have said this before that the dps could be nerfed a bit and song stacking should be removed. but mobility is the one thing that sets bards aside from the other ranged dps. to hinder this would be a MAJOR change in how the class is played. as for bard buffs they are fine (once they fix the stacking fact and im pretty sure they will as to not make taking 2-3 bards for dps a need). i dont think bards should have positional shots as this dosent fit the archer role. people are requesting the hammer be braught down on bards when slight things changes could be made to bring ballence bard and dps.

BRD's responses to this, and similar topic threads, are golden. It's priceless.

There's ABSOLUTELY no way they are OP. Everyone who says they are is a bad player and are terrible at playing their Job. Consequently, everyone that plays a BRD must be the A+++ cream of the crop on every server.

100% mobility enabling BRDs to do 100% DPS at all times, with exceptional utility.

-Ask a BRD to give up mobility? "No we're designed to be mobile!!!"
-Okay, what about lowering DPS a bit then? "NO!! We're a DPS class, must max DPS all the time!"
-But you should give up something for your utility...? "NONONO, we are BRDs we are a utility class!!!"
-So players who are not BRDs saying that you are OP are wrong? "Of course they are. All us BRDs that say we aren't OP know what we are talking about. We're a very balanced class. Everyone else that plays a different class are just terrible players who should L2P instead of complaining. Oh! and they should focus on FUN! nothing else."
What about melee classes working hard to keep competitive? - "Other classes working twice as hard as we do and still not pulling the same DPS? No it's completely balanced gameplay, as long as they're having fun!"
So everyone else is wrong? - "Yes"
Any parting words? "Sure. Give BRD a DPS LB, it's only fair, we're a DPS class. And pay attention to us telling you results of broken and unreliable parses from 3rd party software, they show we are not OP and therefore is 100% completely correct."

i wonder when the devs will step in and make a post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kroktar

Good Monks do a lot of damage its not that behind from BRD depending on which boss, and DRG buffs piercing so 10% its your damage.

---

'We are fine... the job with the most difficult rotations and most positional requirements in the game does almost as much damage as we do face smashing our keyboards... and that other melee job buffs piercing damage by 10%, so thats almost as good as the buffs we give. See, its all perfectly balanced.'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t00nc3ss

BRD's responses to this, and similar topic threads, are golden. It's priceless.

---

Very well put and I have to say way to go on this. You summed everything up perfectly Tooncess with your rundown of the questions. I am a Bard and I kind of feel like I am cheating a lot of the time playing it. I am so mobile I don't get hit and have actually tanked a dungeon boss. What??!!?! I hit like a freight train. I also have the utility to keep casters casting as well as other stuff in my arsenal. Truth be told I am ridiculous and I should be stopped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t00nc3ss

snip

---

Stopped reading it after first line because it was full of falsehoods and misinformation based on the total feedback in the entire thread. Some haven't said anything about other DPS being bad and that all the brds must be elite cream of the crop. Most have said that when the Melee weren't hindered constantly by AOE attacks that they did just as much damage.

Buffing melee will create a disparity when melee won't be hindered by AOE quite a bit and still wouldn't fix the remaining issue of Melee constantly having to move out of the way of too many AOE attacks or cause a major drain on MP. SE needs to address the real issue before going in and buffing or nerfing any of the jobs.

I really don't know what you guys are whining about. There isn't one single fight where you want to stack 4 bards, every endgame encounter is designed so that you always need something from every job, people are also convinced that you can't possibly beat the demon wall with 2 bards, so what's the deal?
Bard's dmg is on par with the other dps, yes it is easy to play when all you have to do is dps, but it gets a bit more challenging when you have to deal with songs, interruptions and AoE dodging so for the real endgame stuff it's really balanced. It is OP for pre endgame content, but does it really matter? Is it putting you spot in a party at stake? NO. Then why do you care?
On the other hand, if bards were to get a nerf of let's say... 20% less dmg, would you still want one in a light party content where all of his utility skills are wasted?

Honestly all of this whining sounds to me like people asking for a bigger epeenis.

dude u know what endgame it isnt the demon wall as u says and it is coil right?
1-demon wall can and i have done many times with 2 bards before bees pop with 250 dps each bard,130 the tan and 90 the heal so shut up dude if u cant do the demon wall with 2 bards because that it si the problem of your hands not the class.
2-the bards stacking 2-3 on coil where u only can get 4 dps it is a big problem because dps have only 4 spots for 5 jobs,but when u see that many raids only get 1 of those 5 jobs(bards) and any other job if they need single or aoe limit we have a problem.

the dude on the other page have put it perfect.every bard think that they must be the best dps and the same time the best utility and the easier class to play omg sure

what MMO did you all play that melee dps NEVER had to avoid a melee ranged spell? its crazy that people think that just beacuse bards can shoot at any time it makes them SO OP!...... i have played MMO's since i was 12 i am now 28 and in that 16 years i have never seen this amout of crying...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mushashi

dude u know what endgame it isnt the demon wall as u says and it is coil right?
1-demon wall can and i have done many times with 2 bards before bees pop with 250 dps each bard,130 the tan and 90 the heal so shut up dude if u cant do the demon wall with 2 bards because that it si the problem of your hands not the class.
2-the bards stacking 2-3 on coil where u only can get 4 dps it is a big problem because dps have only 4 spots for 5 jobs,but when u see that many raids only get 1 of those 5 jobs(bards) and any other job if they need single or aoe limit we have a problem.

the dude on the other page have put it perfect.every bard think that they must be the best dps and the same time the best utility and the easier class to play omg sure

---

Dude you completely misread it, I was talking about coil... 3 bards is completely pointless in turn 1, might be helpfull in turn 2 but all you need is one bard and one paladin, good luck with three bards on turn 4.
I know you can kill demon wall with 2 bards, but how many times you see someone shouting for bards? How many times they shout "need melee"?
And seriously, if you can't read just go take your attitude elsewhere.

Basing on what Ive seen. Have to many bards and your party would lose alot of DPS LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcide

Dude you completely misread it, I was talking about coil... 3 bards is completely pointless in turn 1, might be helpfull in turn 2 but all you need is one bard and one paladin, good luck with three bards on turn 4.
I know you can kill demon wall with 2 bards, but how many times you see someone shouting for bards? How many times they shout "need melee"?
And seriously, if you can't read just go take your attitude elsewhere.

---

2 bards is ideal in coil for song stacking

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fauxpas

i have played MMO's since i was 12 i am now 28 and in that 16 years i have never seen this amout of crying...

---

Really? Youve not been looking then. Ive seen the same amount and much more in every single mmo ive played. And if you think this is a lot, just wait for PvP to release. Rivers of cry will flood the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallows

Really? Youve not been looking then. Ive seen the same amount and much more in every single mmo ive played. And if you think this is a lot, just wait for PvP to release. Rivers of cry will flood the forums.

---

Good lord PvP is going to ruin PvE like it ruined GW2. Unless the FF devs seperate the two catagories when taking into consideration of traits and stuffs then this game will go to the crapper when they start giving in to the PvP crowd.

Again I don't think Bard needs a nerf. ^^ Just a separation into a healer and a DPS class like ACR has. ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maku

Good lord PvP is going to ruin PvE like it ruined GW2. Unless the FF devs seperate the two catagories when taking into consideration of traits and stuffs then this game will go to the crapper when they start giving in to the PvP crowd.

---

They said itll be belanced separately. But still... Have you tried hitting a moving target as melee? Its just not possible 90% of the time.

Quote:

---

Again I don't think Bard needs a nerf. ^^ Just a separation into a healer and a DPS class like ACR has. ^^

---

I think it needs a difficulty increase.

The future of the game is going to be determined when PvP hits Live servers.

As all Melee classes know it is entirely impossible to hit a target while it's moving; you hit an ability and the animation starts only to abruptly stop halfway even if the target is in front of you, moving = miss (unless you are perfectly perpendicular). So melee not being able to hit a moving class...now let's see, what class out there can do 100% of their DPS while being completely mobile? Hmmm.... Either targeting mechanics have to be changed from the ground up or else every PvP battlefield will be nothing but BRDs farming everyone, almost effortlessly. It doesn't matter what different skill sets Square will give classes specifically for PvP, at it's core, everyone but BRDs are at a severe disadvantage.

I honestly cannot help but laugh at how absurd things are currently, and cry at how things *might* turn out.