Look at it closely. Every scene is sharp only in a very limited area of view. Everyhting else is blurry the foreground and even more so in the background. The bloom makes every bright surface look blurry no matter where they are in relation to the camera.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilean
Is most of FFXIV's failings due to their choice of engine?
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05-08-2011, 06:45 PMSeif
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05-08-2011, 06:49 PMSeif
Honestly I don't know why people are talking about this. It's the visual blandness where XIV graphics fail the most and that has nothing to do with technology. Even if it did game engine isn't something that can be switched EVER in a game like this.
More realistic would be to request SE to make the landscapes look less boring. That has nothing to do with reflections or normal maps. Mossy fields just aren't and never will be that interesting when compared to the environments in ANY other FF title. -
05-08-2011, 07:36 PMviion
yah I have to agree with Seif, could have the best looking materials and bump maps in the world, but if you model up a turd, its nothing more than a turd.
Whoever is in charge of world/level design needs to be fired (if not already switched from that previous adjustment) and someone with creativity needs to be put in charge.
ps. I love UE3, TERA runs on it :D and is beautiful! -
05-08-2011, 08:37 PMAbriaelAnd then you see the characters (not to mention the actual landscapes in motion, instead of some static cherry picked pics, that already show one of the flattest low-rez grounds ever), and laugh your rear off :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gifthorse
It's always funny to see how you're *very* selective with your choices of materials to present, gifthorse.
Sorry to burst a bubble, but the only real reason why so many devs use the UE3 and the cryengine is because they can't afford to create and test an engine in-house and have to resort to third party *generic* engines, that limit what they can do (and the way they can evolve their games) by quite a lot. -
05-08-2011, 08:55 PMPhysicI think you're missing the whole point, hes noit saying these guys have better graphics/textures. hes saying the environments are more varied and engaging, basically the design. He is claiming that maybe the reason they recycle so much is because they are using a poorly optimized engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Creating engaging environments is only mildy about your maximum graphical settings. Our environments are pretty repetive, while no name MMOs in small companies can create seemingly over all more entertaining environments. However i still say i dont know if its the engine, because hey, snes games have surpassed this game in creating varied and engaging environments -
05-08-2011, 09:05 PMKurokikaze
From ArcheAge page:
Wow can't wait to see that... This is the shit that SE should be going for.Quote:
All locations in the game impress you with their atmosphere. They have lots of details, which you might not even notice - flocks of birds, rabbits, sheds in the gardens, mysterious runes on some strange rocks. All of this is accompanied by marvelous music and stunning ambience. Actually, screenshots can never show all the beauty and dynamics of this world. Only watching videos might transfer this feeling. But you should play and see it yourself. However I will try to tell you more about Archeage and pass you a part of what I've seen.
I was going to defend SE but then I realized... I don't even know what to say. The copy/paste in this game is about as bad as when you realized that the clouds and bushes are the same recolored asset in Mario 1. It's that disappointing.Quote:
However i still say i dont know if its the engine, because hey, snes games have surpassed this game in creating varied and engaging environments
The copy/paste wouldn't be nearly as bad if the areas had some life to them. Some random critters that inhabit certain areas, something in the area that doesn't look like the other areas (copy/pasted ones), etc. The biggest flaw is that they repeated the same texture without even so much as rotating it about 6 times while walking down the same road. That may or may not be a flaw with the engine but its an inherent failure for the game and no one can argue that. -
05-08-2011, 09:42 PMgifthorseI didn't mean the game i cited was better than FFXIV in every aspect. But the developers of AA obviously have access to something SE doesn't have in order to make more varied landscapes more readily and easily... and to make them without loading screens. Only a portion of ArcheAge landscape has been revealed so far and yet the size of it already surpasses the copy-paste landmass of FFXIV, despite everything being individually crafted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Some of the pitfalls of designing an in-house engine are that A) you cannot optimise it as much as with a third party which gets better and better with repeated usage and B) third party engines have more middleware support like Speedtree which decrease development burden.
And while you could say that some terrain is a flat tile in AA, you could say the same for water in FFXIV. So one fault is neutralised by another.
At the end of the day, the overall effect is what should matter. -
05-08-2011, 09:53 PMgifthorse
Is it really worth the extra graphical prowess of Crystal Tools if it means being hampered and beleaguered by the selfsame engine.
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05-08-2011, 11:14 PMXmbei
Has anyone even watched the gameplay viideo of FFvXIII? It is the same engine, and it shows it properly used, it is all on the development team on how they use the tools given to them. The Crystal Tools engine is not bad.
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05-08-2011, 11:48 PMMunbaI also think so. The FF13 staff and part of Versus one, are the best programmers in SE. And the ff14 ones are not the top notch in this department, sadly. I was hoping they would have lent some ff13 crew to rebuild some graphics in ff14.. but i presume it is not possibile right now (to much work to do for FFVersus maybe).Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmbei
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05-08-2011, 11:53 PMJennestiaPeople know the CT engine is fine, but they wouldn't have an argument if they admitted it. It is more of a cinematic engine than gameplay engine but it does get the job done with a higher focus on cinematics. XIV is an MMO and any engine thats just "online friendly" needs a lot of tweaking and plugins developed for it, XIV isn't properly optimized is the main issue. Next issue is design of certain things which was clearly not meant to be used on this engine, which again goes back to poor optimization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmbei
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05-08-2011, 11:54 PMDargoth_Draconia
Lol at the PS3 remark, the PS3 is an amazing piece of gaming technology yet people will slander it. Ignorant people will always be ignorant and to them ignorance is bliss. The Engine isn't the best but it the problems fell on Tanaka who just didn't deliver with the system tools he and his team had. The game is constantly getting better with Yoshi-P's team and they are using the same thing Tanaka had. Last thing they need is Korean devs, majority of the Korean MMOs are bland and boring and repetitive and only one will shine every 5+ year period. Western part of the world is starting to take over RPG and MMO market while the Korean/Japanese are starting to fall behind but games like GW2 will do great because GW one was a formula that worked and all they have to do is improve upon it.
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05-08-2011, 11:56 PMXmbei
I would like to see the FFvXIII combat system in XIV, heck it even has jumping..... like oh there is a bench I can jump over it not run around it to get to that behemoth.... Also its quick paced, and looks like a lot of fun, the only problem is I think a lot of people doing that won't necessarily overload much but could be just crazy on the screen and pacing with multiple players doing it, but if optimized would be perfect. imo...
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05-09-2011, 12:15 AMKurokikaze
That will never happen. As much as I would like it.
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05-09-2011, 12:28 AMNuruA battle system like that would be really awesome, but its most likely not going to happen with FFXIV, because that would ruin the concept of playing strategically. I await to see the battle changes that are yet to come.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmbei
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05-09-2011, 12:33 AMrainfish
Wow Blade and Soul is coming out for PC, PS3 and Xbox? I thought the only save for XIV was PS3 cause they would have no competition but unless Blade and Soul takes years past XIV PS3 release it's going to be as rough there as it was for it on PC.
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05-09-2011, 12:37 AMXmbei
The sad part about that is I bet B&S will hit the same wall all mmo's hit with Xbox, Microsoft whats their cut, so it would be expensive for x360 players to play it. It's why all those MMO's initially said for X360 release never occured...
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05-09-2011, 12:37 AMNuruCool story bro. Good luck to them trying to port to XBOX 360 if they have their own paid sub. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by rainfish
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05-09-2011, 12:38 AMJennestiaIt's still a korean game, so there's a good possibility that majority of Japan will likely choose XIV especially if its released first, there's still quite a bit of people who are waiting for the PS3 release of this game. A lot of korean games look fun and have good concepts, but they all inevitably have the same pitfalls..especially ncsoft games.Quote:
Originally Posted by rainfish
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05-09-2011, 12:48 AMNuru
Most Korean MMOs have some sort of scheme. One game is released after another because certain developers just have no idea how to build up on any of these games. The reason why FFXI and WoW have survived this long is because these games were built on, with a strong beginning and strong new content.
I've played Aion long enough to get to 20, and i feel as if it should be a free-to-play game because it really isn't any more satisfying than Perfect World International, and that game is free to play. So why should i be paying $16 a month for a game that is just like 15+ other free to play MMORPGs?
At least FFXIV was promising enough to show me something different, and what it is capable of. Blade and Soul may be pretty, but despite the graphics, its probably the next Aion, or other Free to play games. -
05-09-2011, 01:02 AMAva
I am kind of surprised at the amount of hype over Korean MMOs in this thread, and it makes me a little sad. Korean MMOs grab your attention with amazing graphics and excessive animations, this is nothing new. Korean MMOs -always- have terrible gameplay, overly generic stories, non existant customer service, and beyond terrible programming. I'm not trying to defend FFXIV here but... using Korean games as examples of "doing it right" is kind of a stretch. >.>
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05-09-2011, 01:06 AMKurokikaze
^ generalizing/stereotyping.
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05-09-2011, 01:10 AMShikyowtf are u talking about this game isnt on ps3 yet, ppl with 2 grand rigs have problems with the engineQuote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
Also Blade & Soul looks amazing as well as fun i cant wait till its released in the us -
05-09-2011, 01:19 AMVerecundThis concept is actually pretty applicable to anything that becomes popular (i.e. much money can be made from)... it's an unfortunate reality to deal with coming from an artistic perspective XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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05-09-2011, 01:28 AMPhysicI think what they are getting at, is how do low budget companies, with very little achieve so much visually, and this game doesnt seem to (with regards to environmental over all design) the op think it maybe the limitations of the engine, I personally think it is just poor design, reusing assets isnt the problem, its how they reused it. Gridania has overhangs and top and bottom levels, with clearings and streams here and there, these are fine, but instead of designing an area with all these tools, they designed one repeating pattern of these building blocks and used them over and over. Instead of using the building blocks to make the area, over all, interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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05-09-2011, 01:36 AMAvaIt's because there's a difference between taking an engine, making a level (or world in this case) with already created units and creating your own engine (or heavily modifying one) to make a unique experience. Ever wonder why so many Korean MMOs look the same? A lot of it is because they probably only make minimum modifications to their engines. Western MMORPG developers heavily modify their engines to make a unique experience for their games because their programmers are capable of such a thing. But I mean, even I could go download an engine and make a game world that looks beautiful by myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
I don't think everyone posting in this thread fully understands what an engine actually is. It's not hard to make something pretty. It is hard; however, to make something unique, pretty, and well programmed.
e: Anyone interested, here's UDK: Unreal Development Kit (Unreal Engine 3) http://www.udk.com/ You can try it for free. -
05-09-2011, 01:45 AMdarkstarpoet1him and quite a few others. i don't like the direction this game seems to be going, but i am holding off bashing the direction until i see the direction it is actually going not where it seems to be going. looks can be deceiving so i will wait until i see more of a full landscape of the final direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog
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05-09-2011, 01:50 AMPhysicwhich is why i say regardless which path you choose engine wise, you still need to design good environments. a tree or stream in ffxi may look lovely, but when you see the same pattern of tree stream tree stream tree stream, you are failing as a designerQuote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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05-09-2011, 01:54 AMAvaAgreed, I was mostly responding to your opening sentence about budget. Doesn't cost a lot to hire someone to make something with an engine. It does cost a lot to hire someone to modify it and create new assets, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
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05-09-2011, 02:27 AMIleanErrr... that's called DoF... Well you know? If you are too stupid to understand that DoF and bloom are just effects that can be turned on or off, I guess I shouldn't waste my keyboard on you anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seif
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05-09-2011, 03:43 AMSonic_the_HedgehogThat's perfectly fine darkstarpoet1, that's more reasonable than most of the people that post on here. Instead of actually waiting and seeing this stuff in action they rather criticize what they think it's going to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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05-09-2011, 04:10 AMJennestiaYep, which is a very good outlook and seems to be rare among gamers these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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05-09-2011, 05:20 AMJinkoIt's really not as simple as wanting a cut, MS like to control their network and by linking to two other systems, PC and PS3 they have no control, ie abuse and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmbei
Most devs get along with MS just fine, its just SE are stuck in their ways as are MS, so their is an impasse.
It's very unlikely that B&S will have international servers like FFXIV does, so there is no worries. -
05-09-2011, 05:50 AMAugury
Two things...
-No, the engine is fine, it's the content of the game, not the engine that is the problem. Crystal Tools can obviously do the job- it's just been poorly applied (see XIII)
-Blade and Soul is a kMMO that has been in the works for YEARS to beat out all of the cheaper kMMOs and replace Conquer as the "kung-fu MMO". It could be amazing, it could be another crappy Unreal game (or Blizzreal knock-off) -
05-09-2011, 06:57 AMIleanWatch out, the sun is dynamically lighting real life! That's how the world ends in 2012!Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
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05-09-2011, 07:34 AMFrebautQuote:
Originally Posted by gifthorse
Really.. i mean the game failed because its boring and all you do is grind. Hell even the producers said the game isn't FUN!
YA like shadows, grass and jumping is going to make the game better. These threads are F-ing pointless. Game is boring, its just boring. -
05-09-2011, 08:47 AMPreypacerI remember it was announced at some point that SE were going to be licensing the Unreal Engine 3 for a project. Clearly FFXIV wasn't it... but I'm wondering what it was, or if they ever carried through with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allcars
I do think that, given its "from-the-ground-up" programming to handle massive streaming environments (a la MMOs), that it would have been a better choice for them. Unreal tech is excellent in the right hands. You can also look at TERA Online and see another game that's similarly amazing looking, also using UE3 tech. There's also Gears of War, Unreal Tournament 3 and several others using Epic's tech.
For one thing, they wouldn't have had to deal with the limitations of entirely tile-based "poly-soup" environments as they are with XIV now. That would have given them far more flexibility in how large the world could be, and it could have been streaming. This would have allowed massive environments that were also non-repetitive on the scale they are in XIV.
Also, UE3 works with PS3, so they wouldn't have to worry about cross-platform compatibility.
Really does make me wonder why they opted for the more restrictive approach they took. -
05-09-2011, 08:51 AMMalakhim
That project that they were using Unreal Engine 3 for was The Last Remnant, and it was plagued with all the issues that Unreal 3 was known for back then.
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05-09-2011, 08:57 AMJennestiaHmm...when did we all get along with MS? My company still has issues with the way MS works especially towards Japanese studios.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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05-09-2011, 09:30 AMJinkoThat's hardly the point there is some correlation between their ability to pull those things off in game (whether that is engine related is besides the point) and their ability to add content both interesting and fun, it all seem to be lacking and it all points to bad development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frebaut
What company do you work at ? and yea after their efforts with Mistwalker failed they pretty much pulled their focus away from Japan.Quote:
My company still has issues with the way MS works especially towards Japanese studios.