Dungeon progress shouldn't be allowed while party members are watching cutscenes

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

paragraph that spoke about reality and made sense

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Just to let you know be careful with the F bombs, i just got back from a 10 day ban for saying the F word in a post a while back lol.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

Everyone who complains about this will turn around and do the same thing whn you realize how stupid the end-game currently is in regards to philosophy acquisition.

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Absolutely. If you're not skipping cutscenes and moving ahead without people, it's only because you haven't farmed it dozens of times yet. In the time it takes to watch some of the scenes, the boss can actually be killed. I'm not going to be rude to someone about watching them, but I'm not going to add an extra 30+ minutes to my run while people watch movies.

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Originally Posted by BedroomRockstar01

Absolutely. If you're not skipping cutscenes and moving ahead without people, it's only because you

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... aren't a jerk.

Fixed that for you. :)

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Originally Posted by BedroomRockstar01

Or perhaps you're being a jerk by stalling the time of the 7 other people looking to run the instance? I'm not saying you're right and I'm wrong, but merely that there's not going to be a satisfactory resolution of this issue under the current system. I won't insult you or act like a jerk just because you want to watch your movies, but do not expect me and everyone else to accomodate your singular desire.

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As it happens, I have no problem skipping that which I have already seen. But I will not rush ahead if someone else hasn't seen it. It is common courtesy, as other people have mentioned, to allow first timers to experience it. That is all it is. Being courteous to others will not ruin your experience.

Not to mention, according the user agreement you agreed to, you actually are in the wrong. :)

"3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players,"

I.e. locking them out of a fight/leaving them behind because you wouldn't wait for them to finish the cut-scene. And yes, watching the cut-scene is "part of the game experience" as intended by the developers, therefore you are indeed in the wrong. They added skip at players request for those like you who wish to rush, but not so you could do so at the expense of others.

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Originally Posted by BedroomRockstar01

You can't quote some nebulus concept such as "disrupt or interfere with the Game Experience" and expect any reasonable person to accept that. Are you familiar with the term "void for vagueness"? I could easily argue that by stalling the progression of 7 other players, you're interfering and disrupting their game experience.

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Since you still don't seem to get it: from Yoshi-p "I’m repeating myself, but there is no need for players who are experiencing MMORPGs for the first time to overthink this. We’ve made it so you can have fun and reach your goal by preparing a ton of exciting and fun cutscenes"

He explicitly said that they made cut-scenes for first time players to enjoy and have fun with. He also stated the purpose of the duty finder was to be easy and not stressful as a way for first time players to get into the game. So when it says you may not disrupt the game experience of others, after the producer stated that they intentionally made cut-scenes part of the experience, and the duty finder was supposed to be a non-stressful solution for first-time playersm then no, this is not "vague" or "nebulous".

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Originally Posted by Trevor

There is a difference between watching the cutscenes as they are presented, as the events are happening, and watching them later in your inn. A toddler could understand that.

If you haven't the empathy to understand why people would want to watch cutscenes that are the culmination of countless hours of story quests, in a story dungeon, then you're just hopeless and probably have other problems related to a lack of empathy, like stealing.

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I could equally say you lack empathy for making 7 other people wait while you watch a movie, and then speculate as to your criminal behavior, but that would be asinine. The fact that you would correlate watching cutscenes to theft is amusing though.

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Originally Posted by Rivienne

... aren't a jerk.

Fixed that for you. :)

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Or perhaps you're being a jerk by stalling the time of the 7 other people looking to run the instance? I'm not saying you're right and I'm wrong, but merely that there's not going to be a satisfactory resolution of this issue under the current system. I won't insult you or act like a jerk just because you want to watch your movies, but do not expect me and everyone else to accomodate your singular desire.

Everyone is entitled to watch the cut scenes once. They were put in the game to be viewed. I watch them all the first time, but then always skip after the first. If someone else is watching I am considerate to them and wait. I'm not going to get upset about it. I generally party mostly with FC members and we all know who is new to an instance and expect that they will want to watch the cut scenes. The nature of finding party members through duty finder is that you can't predict who you will get. Other people may not be on the same page as you. That's just a reality of MMOs that we have to be willing to work with. Anyone who doesn't like the randomness of other players should probably be playing single player games.

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Frankly neither party is acting rightly or wrongly, they just don't live in the same world and there isn't a common ground - that's SE's doing.

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Incorrect.

Fighting a boss because you don't want to wait for someone to view the cutscene is wrong in light of the fact you are now forcing someone else to run the dungeon again to access the content you refused to grant them.

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Originally Posted by AngryNixon

Why should I care, you're ruining my farm run? Oh... wait... my time doesn't matter, fuck me and all the farm run people. Their few minutes are worth less than your few minutes. Makes sense. I'm not saying I'm right, I don't really care or need to be. Know this though, you sure the hell aren't either.

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The difference here lies in impatience or not. You would be in the former camp and this is therefore why I find the attitude intolerable.

I cant agree more with the OP - I was honestly shocked to learn this the hard way when my party started a boss without me (healer) and ended up wiping which cost more time than just waiting for the CS :p

All this making me dread doing the level 50 dungeon when I get there. I swear if just one person go ahead of me while I watch cutscenes I wont heal/raise/remove status ailments on them through the entire dungeon, at all. Hopefully I'd be able to play with the people in my FC by then and not have to rely on DF though.

Lol that is why there is an option to watch in your INN.Also when u do reach lvl50 and start farming for myth/philo tomes and u waiting for some1 to finish CS u will be the same way as the other players that did it to u b4 cause, all u wanna do is just beat the dungeon get your tomes and start another right away. Considering how long it takes for DF to work as well as possible wipe in the run u'll just want it to be over quick so u can start another.So dont be so quick to judge lol

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Originally Posted by ish007xx

Lol that is why there is an option to watch in your INN.

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I know for a fact that I wont do that, because I don't like being rude to new folks online no matter what type of online game it is. Patience is one heck of a virtue y'know.

Also, at that point I don't see why a lot of you level 50s aren't with other people you know for farming purposes. Surely you guys must realize that with Duty Finder you have a very high chance of coming across a new player, especially since ARR is still pretty fresh, right? I can understand wanting to get in, get out and all that but being respectful of newer players first time is just common courtesy. Watching cutscenes at the Inn is definitely not a proper substitute.

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Originally Posted by Rivienne

snip

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You can't quote some nebulus concept such as "disrupt or interfere with the Game Experience" and expect any reasonable person to accept that. Are you familiar with the term "void for vagueness"? I could easily argue that by stalling the progression of 7 other players, you're interfering and disrupting their game experience.

People are more than welcome to watch their videos, but I will not stall 7 other players' time to cater to an individual. If the group as a whole wants to wait, I'll be happy to do so, but if they do not want to, I allow the popular vote to rule.

The system in its current state doesn't work for any of us. The best solution I've read is that there should be 2 queues: one for "experienced" where cutscenes are diabled, and one for "Story mode" where cutscenes are on. Of course, people would then complain that the queue timers take too long for "Story mode" as less and less people are going to be interested in it.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

We learned you don't need that 2nd healer. Like I told the last person - enjoy your cutscenes, you are dead weight.

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And you are properly a jerk... But I wont judge till I get the miss fortune to grouping with you in DF... :D

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Originally Posted by ish007xx

Assumptions

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You shouldn't assume everyone plays like you. I ran Brayflox 20+ times to get the armor set. Never once rushed anyone. While waiting for people in CS, I talked to others who skipped. And btw, the cs list in inn IS NOT there so you can skip the cs in dungeons. If that is why they are there, no cs would play in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

We learned you don't need that 2nd healer. Like I told the last person - enjoy your cutscenes, you are dead weight.

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Because of this, when I turn level 50 I will make sure to party with another healer so people like you would be forced to wait...or get wiped.

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Originally Posted by Esura

Because of this, when I turn level 50 I will make sure to party with another healer so people like you would be forced to wait...or get wiped.

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Good thing you have no idea what you're talking about. Level 33. I heal full time and I will lock you out for watching cutscenes. Get used to it.

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Originally Posted by ish007xx

*snip* because of incoherency

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If watching them at the inn was an acceptable substitute, why am I even paying for this game? I could just go on youtube and watch them.

And again, you're assuming that everyone's going to run this dungeon more than once. That isn't the case.

one way to fix and solve both ppl is have an option to only queue for ppl who are not first timers and vice versa so that way with that option selected first timers will be grouped with others so that they can watch the cutscenes and players who are farming dont have to worry about it

The way I see it, they can go kill the boss without me, I will watch my cutscenes, that just means I won't have to worry about killing it, I can see and fight the boss a second time being as its a farming spot.

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Originally Posted by SuperChris

If watching them at the inn was an acceptable substitute, why am I even paying for this game? I could just go on youtube and watch them.

And again, you're assuming that everyone's going to run this dungeon more than once. That isn't the case.

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It is for a fact that they will be running the dungeon more than once. I myself after beating it the 1st time i said to myself i would never go back there cause of how long it took and to even find it in DF, but after a couple runs over and over, due to farming for tomes it gets alot easier and u do run into a few new players now and again and even they are glad to just run through it quick to get on with their storyline. The 1st i did it as well i just skipped the CS to be polite and to not hold back the team.This situation can be good and bad its how u approach it

Long story short. If you DF Prae/CM be prepared to wait around a little bit. Relax, theres no hurry, unless you plan to not sub. Then well, theres no point in hurrying for you.

I agree, cutscenes should not activate if there is an active fight going on, and when they activate, everyone should be locked in a little cow pen just like at the start of any regular dungeon. If you want people to skip cutscenes, thats what premade parties are for. Joining DF and complaining about lore lovers watching cutscenes in a story driven game is like complaining about getting wet after jumping off a boat in the middle of the ocean.

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Originally Posted by homunyan

It gets bad once you get to level 50. I did the final main story dungeon tonight and some overgeared (this guy had a bunch of raid-level gear) tank kept complaining and going ahead and my friend and I ended up completely missing the final boss fight of the main story because we were watching the lead up cutscene and he and his buddies weren't patient or polite enough to wait a couple minutes.

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If you're referring to the literal final boss in Praetorium, you really didn't miss anything. That fight is a complete joke.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

Good thing you have no idea what you're talking about. Level 33. I heal full time and I will lock you out for watching cutscenes. Get used to it.

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If you bump into me, there will be a few of us from the same FC, and we wait for each other. So you better be a really good healer.

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Originally Posted by Brises

If you bump into me, there will be a few of us from the same FC, and we wait for each other. So you better be a really good healer.

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Mmmm.. I'd just sit back and enjoy my free ride if people are impatient enough to start without me. This is coming from someone that does skip cutscenes, but doesn't insist or rush others to do the same. I've just seen ti way too many times. Old age makes me patient I guess.

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Originally Posted by ish007xx

It is for a fact that they will be running the dungeon more than once. I myself after beating it the 1st time i said to myself i would never go back there cause of how long it took and to even find it in DF, but after a couple runs over and over, due to farming for tomes it gets alot easier and u do run into a few new players now and again and even they are glad to just run through it quick to get on with their storyline. The 1st i did it as well i just skipped the CS to be polite and to not hold back the team.This situation can be good and bad its how u approach it

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No, there really are people that will not run the dungeon more than once, because some people have no interest in getting on the gear treadmill. When I finish the last story dungeon, I will either level another job, or play another game.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

If you're referring to the literal final boss in Praetorium, you really didn't miss anything. That fight is a complete joke.

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Doesn't matter if its easy or not, people paid with their hard earned money and time to enjoy the climax to this games storyline. For them to miss out on the final boss after working hard to get to level 50 is very unfortunate and I'm sure SE and Yoshi P want to draw new players to this game not deter them from continuing because they had a bad experience in the last dungeon thanks to speeders and selfish impatient people who only think about their progress and use people as a leg up instead of helping them pass the dungeon with teamwork.

At this very time it is almost impossible to watch the lead up CS to the final fight and be included in the fight before you get the CS of the last boss dying. This boss battle is broken and the only way to enjoy this dungeon is if you can get your linkshell/FC to do it with you. A lot of times people who want to just enjoy the storyline are in low level linkshells and FCs and not many can help them progress.

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Originally Posted by Brises

Anyone who doesn't like the randomness of other players should probably be playing single player games.

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Or at least getting into a Linkshell with other like-minded people who are at the point where they are grinding dungeons and skipping the cutscenes... coordinating runs with them without worries about new people who would like to watch the cutscenes.

People who are rushing the dungeons shouldn't be using duty finder at all, and should be shouting and coordinating Linkshell groups.

The only problem here is that the party may be stuck while at least 1 player is watching a CS :
1. Stuck in a circle
2. Player who is watching CS cannot join a boss fight 15 seconds after the first aggro

SE could handle the 2 different cases and that's all.

The only problem is when it's the Tanks/Healers who are watching CS, the party must wait but there is no solution here.

The easiest fix for the skip/don't skip situation while using Duty Finder is to have a "skip cutscenes"/"Regular" choice in the Duty Finder itself.

If it's your first time or you don't mind while other people watch the cutscenes, you pick "Regular". If all you want to do is run the dungeon as fast as you can then you pick "Skip cutscenes".

This makes sure that people are with like minded-people and removes one place where drama can crop up.