Post Your Solution For Gil Generation

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Originally Posted by Felis

But this is the design of this game.
Level up different classes to complete your character. It is not a 1 character = 1 class MMO. If you reduce your character to only 1 class, you gimp yourself.

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the problem is, people refuse to see that
they'll say something like "this is the way i play, SE can't dictate me how do i play the game"

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Actually I have some ideas....

The lvl 50 dungeons should provide 1 bag of Allagan Platinum Piece.

By average people pay between 400 to 1000 gil in thier repair bill so every lvl 50 dungeon will provide at least 9,600 gil to 9000 gil per run.

here is the List of Allagan Piece in this game currently

Platinum piece = 10,000 gil
Gold Piece = 2,500 gil
Silver Piece = 500 gil
Bronze Piece = 100 gil
Tin piece = 25 gil

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that's just too much gil regeneration
in a month, you'll see a darklight crafted sold for 5 million gil

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

that's just too much gil regeneration
in a month, you'll see a darklight crafted sold for 5 million gil

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ok how about

Ideal set up... (SE could change this)

Sastasha, Tam-Tam Deepcraft, Copper Mine = 2 Bronze Piece

Halatali, Thousand Maw, Haukke Manor, Brayflox' Longstop, Sunken Temple = 1 Silver Piece

Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold, Stone Vigil = 2 Silver piece

Wanderer's Palace, Amdapor Keep, Castrum Meridianum, Praetorium = 1 Gold Piece.

More lighter than my first idea.

remember

List of Allagan Piece in this game currently

Platinum piece = 10,000 gil
Gold Piece = 2,500 gil
Silver Piece = 500 gil
Bronze Piece = 100 gil
Tin piece = 25 gil

The ideal helps both people trying to get gil and people who want more people to dungeon with. Ya it is not perfect but it helps motivate people to dungeon more. It may make people want higher levels dungeon but the current price helps people still working their way to level 50 as well. It covers their repair bills and provide some gil as they work their way to lvl 50 rather than losing a lot of gil since when you level a 2nd or 3rd or more classes (both DoW, DoM, DoL, and DoH) the quest are no longer there to cover the repair bills and leves are limited so dungeons become another source of gil and provides more reason to level by using Dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Gabriel_Mourningwood

Reduce transportation and repair costs by about 90%. Leave everything else as is. Then wait and see. Change stuff if more things are required. Worst case scenario - add in exp loss on death if needed. Had a 1900 gil repair bill from farming up just shy of 50 animal hides to craft leatherworker today from playing my 50 Paladin. That's just a bit over the top considering what I was fighting.

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Why in the hell would you farm animal hides with lv50 gear? If you use lower lv gear, you pay less for repairs.

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Originally Posted by kelsethel

Farming and or crafting really isn't what I play for so to the people who do I have no problem with but to make it mandatory to make any gil is really wrong is every sense of the word.

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I think this is really the crux of the issue. People don't want to play the crafting and gathering portions of the game that provide gil, and then complain when they have none. I personally think that setup is fine - after all, it's analogous to a person who doesn't like raiding complaining that they have to in order to get high-end gear.

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Originally Posted by kelsethel

as a side note as being a WHM having to pay 70k for one materia is outrageous the way you get materia is some of the most grindy things in this game and I really wonder if its balance I'm talking about and just the concept but wish you guys luck on fixing this mess.

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This is mostly exacerbated by the fact that all of the high end stuff that would yield high end materia is non-convertible. People jump right into AF gear, so most never spend time in gear that can actually be converted. Of course, those of us who realize this.... ;)

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Making your gil work for you



We can certainly understand that teleportation costs make it difficult to manage your gil and that the cost of living can be high in general. The other day the team decreased the repair cost and price for dark matter (as covered in Camate's post) but we'll continue to look into adjusting income expenses in an effort to continually balance the economy.

We don't have any particular details right now, but we're looking through your feedback while investigating this matter and appreciate your continued feedback as you explore and live in Eorzea.

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I can't go on living cause everything is costly.

/wrist

hehe just kidding, but really, the only way i'm making gil is to make alts and send the gil to my main xD

I'm sure someone's already suggested this, it's been in plenty of these types of threads, but make the trash mobs in dungeons drop decent amounts of gil/Allagan pieces. Solves two problems at once, and lets those who want to speed run do so, with the downside that they have to fund their repairs some other way.

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Originally Posted by busta

Why in the hell would you farm animal hides with lv50 gear? If you use lower lv gear, you pay less for repairs.

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I know this isn't what the poster you replied to was doing, but spiritbonding it? Kill two birds with one stone, and you don't even have to pay for repairs ;)

I take it most people here forgot about all the other content because they were busy rushing to cap. You have to make your living in this game through gathering/crafting.
If you don't want to do any of this then it's of course your own choice, but don't expect gil to be handed out because you weren't bothered to work for it.

so many people in this thread totally missing the point lol. individual wealth is not generating gil for your server.

The intellect is not strong with these repliers.

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Originally Posted by Trindall

would some of the more experience players care to shed some light on the reasoning behind this?

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most ppl i knew/heard broke mostly are those who use teleport mindlessly. back in 1.0 we do not use Gils for tele. however we have something call Anima which only regen like 8 a day if i dont remember wrongly and it cap out at 99. just like how leve allowance regen now. and depending on where u tele, the further you go would cost u more Anima. If given the same thing now I believe those ppl cant even teleport anymore as we speak. also if we do ifrit there is no such thing call duty finder. so definitely we need to tele there manually. So what we do is we tele as a grp. whoever have more Anima will use it to bring the grp. grp tele still works now as far as i know. despite now it uses Gil but it is more or less the same as last time just a diff form of currency. if ppl choose to use it brainlessly then complain broke, then i got no comment.

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Originally Posted by makii

I take it most people here forgot about all the other content because they were busy rushing to cap. You have to make your living in this game through gathering/crafting.
If you don't want to do any of this then it's of course your own choice, but don't expect gil to be handed out because you weren't bothered to work for it.

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I agree with you.
Really you don't even HAVE to do that.. if you don't want to do DoH or DoL... use your DoW to farm hides/webs/ etc. Most MMO's have some sort of system that requires "farming" for money. WoW has quest daily farming (which I find incredibly boring, personally), but before that you had to do it the old fashion way. I remember hitting cap in vanilla and farming rune cloth for my epic mount. If you "don't have time" to farm, why are you playing an MMO? They are time consuming and you have to put in some time to advance your character.

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

so many people in this thread totally missing the point lol. individual wealth is not generating gil for your server.

The intellect is not strong with these repliers.

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I get so tired of seeing this.
There are so many people leveling on a server, running lower dungeons, fates, leve's, quests etc. I seriously doubt that there will be an issue -- but if there is, I'm sure SE will address it. Please stop acting like you're concerned about the wealth of the server..Most of these people complaining ARE concerned about personal wealth and use this stupid "server wealth" as a disguise.

The only reason anyone is pissed off about gil in vs gil out is because they're broke and looking to blame the economy. If you're a broke lvl 50 DoW then farm some mats and sell them. Every bit of gil you end up earning was ultimately generated from nothing. The fact that it passed hands before it got to you is irrelevant. You cannot spend more than you have, yet you can still continue to add gil to the economy. Ultimately you cannot subtract more gil than you earn. Gil will always be added to the economy.

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Originally Posted by Cami

I seriously doubt that there will be an issue

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The ironic thing is, you have no more solid evidence to support your position than those you're arguing against.

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Originally Posted by valhalla

The only reason anyone is pissed off about gil in vs gil out is because they're broke and looking to blame the economy.

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I've made over 15 mil so far in ARR, how much have you made?

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Every bit of gil you end up earning was ultimately generated from nothing. The fact that it passed hands before it got to you is irrelevant.

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Gil sink/macro-econ are not your strong suit it seems.

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You cannot spend more than you have, yet you can still continue to add gil to the economy. Ultimately you cannot subtract more gil than you earn. Gil will always be added to the economy.

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May want to look up what deflation is and how it works.


Seriously, it's one thing to think that SE won't let the economy grew into a downward spiral (which I agree), or even that you don't think the current system has a deflationary pressure on it, but at least use arguments that won't make an econ 101 student chuckle.

Once we get into the business of increasing available gil fountains it's a slippery slope from there on.. I think SE should stick with some conservatives measures, that is, maybe tweak the numbers just a little bit. Fact is most MMOs suffer from an enormous inflation it's not uncommon to see 20-40% inflation per year, I'm happy that so far it doesn't seem like that will be a problem in FFXIV:ARR.

There's a very interesting article about this here.

I would like to quote the part about SWG but character limits will unfortunately hinder me from that. But to paraphrase, SWG economy was initially very much like FFXIV:ARR the first 2 years, there were plenty of money drains and maintenance of character and possessions combined with a sparse amount of ways to generate new money kept inflation low. However eventually SOE decided to heed players cries and decrease gold out and increase gold in resulting in an inflationary boom later on, eventually leading to a situation where the "old" players would control the vast majority of wealth, while new players would be fighting for scraps off the table.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

I've made over 15 mil so far in ARR, how much have you made?

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No, you haven't made that much you have gained it from 1.0 players, I highly doubt you have generated 15mil on a new server. Basically it's just old gil passing around right now mostly and old gil going out of the game(applies only to legacy servers obviously) because there ain't no real gil creator in the game right now.

Gil fountains are fine, most of you just don't know where they are/how to use them. You tunnel-visionned your way to spamming AK 5 times a day without taking a step back and thinking about how you were going to fund all of that.

I'm sitting on almost a mill, not from my legacy account but from a fresh start on a fresh server. You guys will say "OMG you have no idea you are only level 36" but lodestone my char, and you will see where I got the money from. Yes I didn't focus all of my play-time on rushing to 50, and no I have never gone out of my way to do fates. I do them when they spawn close to where I'm at, and that's it.

If crafting and gathering isn't for you, sorry, go play WoW then - this game isn't for you. FFXIV is about diversification and the holy balance of the 3 disciplines, not repeating the same content over and over and over that you all seem to be so keen on doing.

I think our saving grace is that the free trial has ended today, and most of the people complaining (people who didn't play 1.0 or FFXI) will go back to whatever game they were playing, thinking this game is "dead" and "too grindy" or whatever.

SE will keep its core audience, as it always does, and we will support ourselves, as we havve always done, like no other MMO community.

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Originally Posted by Feathery

Once we get into the business of increasing available gil fountains it's a slippery slope from there on.. I think SE should stick with some conservatives measures, that is, maybe tweak the numbers just a little bit. Fact is most MMOs suffer from an enormous inflation it's not uncommon to see 20-40% inflation per year

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Agreed, ultimately it falls on the devs(who actually have the hard stats) to competently balance/adjust the economy.

Eve is going on 10 years, and there remains no runaway inflation in that game despite the multitudes of huge currency faucets because CCP has done a good job balancing the in/outs.

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Originally Posted by Whitemage82

Wait for the sinks to drain gil from legacy players to go away and for Yoshi to put something sustainable in once all servers have similar economies.

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I never understood the legacy hate outside of being just jealously because they aren't holding you back from anything.

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Originally Posted by Altanas

Suggestions on Gil Generation

1. PvP for points used to turn in to a NPC for boxes of gil or for the Allagan pieces. This will encourage players into trying out PvP. You want Gil? Well let Yoshi-P floor your ass!

((snip))

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Great suggestions right here (not enough space to quote them all).

Also people please remember anything that includes the market isn't gil generation. Besides, getting money from the market through crafting is getting difficult. People notice they aren't earning much money at 50 so they are wary of buying stuff from the Market. And LOADS of people are selling things below vendor price for some silly reason I can't fathom. Possibly because they are noticing they aren't selling much anymore, so they try to undercut everyone and don't check the vendor cost.

Next time I see that happen, I am going to buy all of those and vendor them. I wonder how much money THAT will get me.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

Agreed, ultimately it falls on the devs(who actually have the hard stats) to competently balance/adjust the economy.

Eve is going on 10 years, and there remains no runaway inflation in that game despite the multitudes of huge currency faucets because CCP has done a good job balancing the in/outs.

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Yep, I definitely agree. The funny thing about EVE Online is that they are AFAIK the only MMO that has a Professor of Economics who is working with managing their economy.

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

No, you haven't made that much you have gained it from 1.0 players, I highly doubt you have generated 15mil on a new server. Basically it's just old gil passing around right now mostly and old gil going out of the game(applies only to legacy servers obviously) because there ain't no real gil creator in the game right now.

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You may want to read my post again to see the point I was trying to make (hint: it's the same one you're trying to).

And no, I have not generated 15 mil, nor did I say I did - I MADE 15 mil, but overall I'd say I've probably erased about 2 mil from my server.

Was it so hard to just remove any currency, like Path of Exile? By far, last time i played it, it was the most perfect and succesful economy ever seen on an mmo. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Teon

Was it so hard to just remove any currency, like Path of Exile? By far, last time i played it, it was the most perfect and succesful economy ever seen on an mmo. :rolleyes:

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Path of Exile isn't an MMO it's an ARPG :p..

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Originally Posted by valhalla

The only reason anyone is pissed off about gil in vs gil out is because they're broke and looking to blame the economy. If you're a broke lvl 50 DoW then farm some mats and sell them. Every bit of gil you end up earning was ultimately generated from nothing. The fact that it passed hands before it got to you is irrelevant. You cannot spend more than you have, yet you can still continue to add gil to the economy. Ultimately you cannot subtract more gil than you earn. Gil will always be added to the economy.

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This is too much common sense for most people to fathom.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Was it so hard to just remove any currency, like Path of Exile? By far, last time i played it, it was the most perfect and succesful economy ever seen on an mmo. :rolleyes:

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poe also has currency, it's just not global. you trade orbs, and stuff is measured in orbs, rather than a global currency like gold or gil...

Whatever you do do it fast, in two weeks time I will no longer be able to do anything in this game, my gils are melting faster than ice in vodka.

I also think that money is easily obtained in the game. If people refuse to farm/gather/craft it's their own fault. And it seems to me that people rush to 50. They also try to get the best equipment as fast as possible and earning some gil to maintain their dungeon grinding is a waste of time. Sure alot of gil is going to NPCs instead to other players at the moment but its not that bad as some people say it. I can't understand why people can grind FATEs and dungeon all day long, but earning gil is boring on the other hand. All in all it's to early, the economy needs to stabilize first. In my opinion undercutting like crazy is the biggest issue at the moment. People sell stuff at prices that absolutly make no sense. For example Silver Rings are cheaper than Silver Ingots.

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Originally Posted by roohan

... I can't understand why people can grind FATEs and dungeon all day long, but earning gil is boring on the other hand....

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This x1000

As others have noted, the majority of those who are claiming there isn't a problem are those assuming that the current state of revenue in the economy is the permanent state of revenue. Hint: it's not. For macroeconomics, money supply can be dumbed down/oversimplified to the following equation:


[Revenue in] - [Expenses out] = Money supply

The thing is, for an economy to work (i.e. I get a reward for doing my job - in this case my DoH - so I continue to do my job, and in turn others can benefit or profit from me doing my job, who provide benefits for others who benefit from doing their jobs, etc. etc. and down the line), an economy must have a healthy money supply that at least stays constant overall, and more often needs one that increases (due to the natural tendency of some players in the economy to sit on their money and refuse to spend it, thereby acting as an additional expense to the economy).

The issue in this game is that we currently have an absurdly inflated [Revenue in] number. This is due to most people sitting on the gil they earned from completing first time rewards, quests, and the main story. This number is not only going to taper off, it's going to be nearly completely eliminated over time (other than the minor influx of new players, we'll be LIBERAL and claim that's going to generate 5% of what it does now).

In the current economy, as anyone who spends a significant of time on the market wards can clearly see, the money supply is decreasing, producing the deflationary pressure that many have noted. You can see this at all levels of sales, where something that was selling for 100 gil last week is now selling for 50 gil (simplified example). This suggests that IN ITS CURRENT STATE, our [Revenue in] is ALREADY lower than our [Expenses out] in the economy. Considering that we are still experiencing the absurdly inflated [Revenue in] stat, the current deflation is an exceptionally bad sign for the game's economy.

So yeah, those naysayers claiming there is no problem, you couldn't be more wrong. Just because it doesn't look to you like there's a problem now, those of us who've been around the block and also understand macroeconomics can clearly see the writing on the wall. The [Revenue in] needs dramatic improvement if we're to have a vibrant, functioning economy (and for these same dunce naysayers to continue making their gil by selling on the market wards, ironically).

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the economy needs to stabilize first. In my opinion undercutting like crazy is the biggest issue at the moment. People sell stuff at prices that absolutly make no sense. For example Silver Rings are cheaper than Silver Ingots.

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Using this quote as a perfect example of how people don't understand the market forces at work. The prices people set and buy in the market wards are based on what actually sells, not on what something should be ideally. The simple reality is, there's less demand for Silver Rings than there is for Silver Ingots. Result: Silver Rings have a {currently} lower price, due to there being more supply than the market can support at the higher price. Really not that hard to figure out. This pricing scheme where people price stuff where it will actually sell is exacerbated by the 40 posting limit per character, thus providing a real incentive to ensure that one's prices match the market.

By stating that the prices make absolutely no sense to you, you (and by proxy those others who post that there isn't a problem) simply expose the fact that you don't understand the economic principles and forces at play, and therefore have no authority to make the claims that there is no problem.

TL;DR: the fact that there is serious deflation going on in the game right now should be causing alarm, since people only recently completed the ginormous gil fountain that is the primary story questline. If it's not alarming to you, you don't understand macroeconomic principles, plain and simple.

1. stop giving away gear as rewards for quests.

2. Have a minimum price on items.

3. Show the current prices when selling on the market.

4. Pay sellers right away. I've seen it before in GW2 where when you list an item on the market, you'll get paid right away at the current price which the game raises and lowers based on demand.

5. NPC's should not sell items at camps. If I can go to the level 30 camp and buy all my gear from an NPC, I'm not going to waste money teleporting back to town to buy gear. This causes the market to be flooded with too much gear.

That's all I got for now, but I think these ideas will help.

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

Using this quote as a perfect example of how people don't understand the market forces at work. The prices people set and buy in the market wards are based on what actually sells, not on what something should be ideally...

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I do understand your point. I buy stuff on the markets and sell it a way more expensive. So people actually buy goods that others constantly undercut. And this makes no sense at all. Why sell items for 2 gil if there is a demand on said item. People are actually lazy and adjusting your price every minute doesn't have any negative impact. Thats not good for sure. All these lazy people could actually earn way more if they would pay attention to the markets and at least check the frequency of transactions on certain items. If an items sells many times an hour there is no reason to sell for 20 gil.

On obvious Items like diremite web it actually works as it should.

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Originally Posted by roohan

I do understand your point. I buy stuff on the markets and sell it a way more expensive. So people actually buy goods that others constantly undercut. And this makes no sense at all. Why sell items for 2 gil if there is a demand on said item. People are actually lazy and adjusting your price every minute doesn't have any negative impact. Thats not good for sure. All these lazy people could actually earn way more if they would pay attention to the markets and at least check the frequency of transactions on certain items. If an items sells many times an hour there is no reason to sell for 20 gil.

On obvious Items like diremite web it actually works as it should.

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What you're either intentionally or by misunderstanding ignoring is the fact that some folks (particularly those who are spending a lot of time crafting) need items to move quickly in order to keep that slot a money-generating slot. Slots that sit for 2, 3, even 24 hours are a non-money-generating slot, and therefore that item is losing the player money. As such, items with high supply and low demand necessitate "undercutting". Just because you choose to not move your items doesn't mean that it's not a necessity for other people to move items. If we had unlimited auction lines, then it wouldn't be an issue and the "undercutting" would be far less common. The simple truth, however, is that what you claim is undercutting is really a market adjustment due to low demand compared to the supply.

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

The simple truth, however, is that what you claim is undercutting is really a market adjustment due to low demand compared to the supply.

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Bingo. Volume can be just as important as margin, sometimes more so. Problem that exists in these type of economies is the lack of permanent consumption, which was further exacerbated in ARR with the liberal handing out of equipment in quests/leaves, and the reduction in utility of materia via stat capping. You can only sell so much of a particular item before everyone who wants one will have one, esp.given how far supply outstrips demand ATM.

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Originally Posted by Syfin

1) Leves award 6 allowances per 24 hours. This amount to roughly 3000 gil.

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If you can only manage to gain 3k gil from 6 Leves, you are doing it wrong. I can get 5k from one.

High level dungeons often have complete fodder for loot from the random coffers you find. Like...Allaghan tin pieces? Seriously? >.<

Make them gold pieces at least.

Also pls buff battle leve rewards, more gil and xp 'cross the board.

I can't recall if it was Stone Vigil, Wanderer's Palace, or Aurum Vale, but I think they drop some allaghan silver pieces for a few party members. Each one of those sells for 500.

Although by no means ultra sexy, Amdapor Keep can drop up to 2800 gil in bronze pieces (about 700 per person per run). But if people are ignoring these, then that gil never enters the economy.

I suspect all this was mentioned somewhere already. Restricting this post to only gil generation.

My solution is simple, make crafting worth something. I hate dungeon grinds! Dungeons are cool, but not if you have to do them 50 times. I have no idea how MMO transformed into this nonsense! Well actually I do... WoW... ><

I like the idea of weapons and gear being only obtainable by crafted items provided by other players. This way we have a self sustained economy. If people are too lazy to take up a craft, or take the time and earn some gil through other methods, leave them in the dirt. You should have to work a bit for good gear, and to ensure your success in-game. Not FATE grind to 50, get some free gear from quests, and cry because you're broke.

Bring back real gaming, things should take a little bit of time and effort... Leave this new generation in the dust before they ruin gaming forever!

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Originally Posted by Trife

My solution is simple, make crafting worth something. I hate dungeon grinds!

I like the idea of weapons and gear being only obtainable by crafted items provided by other players. This way we have a self sustained economy. If people are too lazy to take up a craft, or take the time and earn some gil through other methods, leave them in the dirt. You should have to work a bit for good gear, and to ensure your success in-game. Not FATE grind to 50, get some free gear from quests, and cry because you're broke.

Bring back real gaming, things should take a little bit of time and effort... Leave this new generation in the dust before they ruin gaming forever!

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Ok, I just can't resist...Bro, are you mad?

Cause you sound mad.

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

Ok, I just can't resist...Bro, are you mad?

Cause you sound mad.

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Not mad, more like disgusted with the direction that MMO's are going. All for the "I want it now" crowd. No game should adhere to these people.

The solution is fairly easy. Make monsters have a chance to drop "metal pieces', i.e. tin pieces, bronze pieces. Anything more than bronze for now may be too much even at max level, but tin would be appropriate. Chests in dungeons NEED to drop more than 7 tin pieces for one player. It is fine to be tin at level 15-20 maybe, but after that it needs to be bronze, and upgrade to silver at 50. Of course it would no longer drop 7, everybody should get 2 of the bronze from the lower level chests, and 1-2 silver each from the higher level chests.

Also, items sold to a vendor need to be worth more than 2 gil. Obviously setting the numbers too high would mean people would just sell to a vendor and not bother with the Market Board, but it needs to be a semi-viable option. For gathering mats that currently sell for 50-90 each, they should probably sell to a vendor for 5-10 gil, and gear that you CAN'T trade/sell should be worth a fair chunk to a vendor. I'm always greeding on loot in dungeons now because I hate seeing nobody getting it and it feels like a waste.

Dungeons

Treasure coffers would provide a coin per group member.
By the end of the dungeon, each group member would collect enough to repair their gear for that run plus pocket gil.
The amount of pocket gil would be determined by how successful the group is.
As you wipe, your repair bill goes up thus reducing the amount of pocket gil you'd gain.
This would allow the players who do not wish to craft or gather a way to make gil doing what they enjoy.
They wouldn't get rich this way, as it should be, but they'd earn enough to sustain their preferred playstyle.

Benefits

Deter speed runs (Not against them. Just a counter balance to the time saved)
People would have to learn to play their class properly to maximize their gains.
Career dungeon-ers wouldn't be forced to partake in aspects of the game they do not enjoy (it's supposed to be fun after all)
It would bring gil into the world (pocket gil amount would have to be closely monitored and adjusted accordingly as to not break the market)


The biggest downside I see would be the increase in toxicity level of players due to people making mistakes causing a decrease in pocket gil.

That's my 2 gils.