So I can't play and tell with EU/NA/JP friends in ARR...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Everything you said in that post is based on your misinterpretations of Google search results, and blatant ignorance on the matter. People shouldn't post about things they do not know anything about. In conclusion you are a liar liar, and your pants are obviously on fire.

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LOL don't quit your day job kid. I'll take my hands on career experience over some troll on the internets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Who the feck are you again?

EDIT: HK is my idol, so if you were trying to insult me, it didn't work. Troll harder.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Oh good grief. Bye now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Why would a japanese person connect to a server located in north america? why would an american connect a japanese server? Derrrrdederrrdederrrr :P

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Good lord. You sir, are an ass.

lol here's another way to put a hole in the magic machine argument. If you could just put a magic machine in every region that decreased latency, why would like, practically every other MMO known to man wast money on regional servers? Herp to the derp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

LOL don't quit your day job kid. I'll take my hands on career experience over some troll on the internets.

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You know who calls people kids when they get frustrated? Kids. :) I'm 26 for the record.

I'm sorry mijin but isn't all your claims just wiki search? I just want to hear something from devs about this soonish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

I'm sorry mijin but isn't all your claims just wiki search? I just want to hear something from devs about this soonish.

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Google search in general, and a whole lot of common sense. Wiki is just usually the first URL on the search results. You guys should try to verify some of your random claims sometime with a simple internet search to see if it's true or not before you post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Rocket scientist/Brain Surgeon here. True story. Data centers are facilities used to house servers. What you are suggesting is technologically impossible. Using this theoretical mystery device that you suggest exists, there would be just as many hops from the client side to the magic machine, and then from the magic machine to the servers in Japan. Unless SE is going to lay a direct line from their servers to the american west coast via the bottom of the pacific ocean, and those kind of things can get pretty costly.

All of that aside, the actual words from Yoshida's mouth were:



Servers based on region sound pretty clear to me. Even if what you're suggesting was possible, why would players have to choose their region? It would be unnecessary. Replace the word "server" with "magic machine," and why would players need to choose it?

Everything you said in that post is based on your misinterpretations of Google search results, and blatant ignorance on the matter. People shouldn't post about things they do not know anything about. In conclusion you are a liar liar, and your pants are obviously on fire.

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Lol. This is pretty funny. Never seen someone argue with a Network Engineer (read: the masters of data-flow) before.

What a brave soul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Google search in general, and a whole lot of common sense. Wiki is just usually the first URL on the search results. You guys should try to verify some of your random claims some time with a simple internet search to see if it's true or not before you post.

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but... you just said the other guy just made claims using google search when you are doing the same thing. Being a bit hypocritical no?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

I'm sorry mijin but isn't all your claims just wiki search? I just want to hear something from devs about this soonish.

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Yea pretty much. Also the article he linked in reply to me was regarding latency from Europe to Asia, which doesn't even compare to what I was talking about, which was latency from the US to Asia. The issue with Europe to Asia is distinctly different, yet he acts that I'm implying SE has to lay undersea cables LOL. Go Go reading comprehension right? Thats why its called a leased line circuit. The herpa derp is on him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

The fact that you claim its not 'technologically possible' just displays your blatant ignorance on the matter. People shouldn't post about things they do not know.

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I gave up with him already :/ People not having a clue about network architecture, peering agreements and so on, commenting on these threads makes me sick as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Antipika

I gave up with him already :/ People not having a clue about network architecture, peering agreements and so on, commenting on these threads makes me sick as well.

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Glad I'm not the only one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Yea pretty much. Also the article he linked in reply to me was regarding latency from Europe to Asia, which doesn't even compare to what I was talking about, which was latency from the US to Asia. The issue with Europe to Asia is distinctly different, yet he acts that I'm implying SE has to lay undersea cables LOL. Go Go reading comprehension right? Thats why its called a leased line circuit. The herpa derp is on him.

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Lol, obviously what I was trying to infer went way over your head and out the window. If it was possible to just put a magic machine in every region that improved latency to servers in other parts of the world, why would people be spending so much money by using such drastic measures as to lay a line through the arctic ocean? Maybe they should have consulted you first, I bet they will really regret their decision when they find out they could have just put some kind of mystery computer up that could have solved their problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Antipika

I gave up with him already :/ People not having a clue about network architecture, peering agreements and so on, commenting on these threads makes me sick as well.

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You gave up arguing with me because I disproved everything you said. You were trying to tell me that distance has nothing to do with latency lol... and suggesting that FFXIV using peeing is really wild, the only peering FFXIV uses is for it's updates. Do you even know what peering is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

Lol. This is pretty funny. Never seen someone argue with a Network Engineer (read: the masters of data-flow) before.

What a brave soul.

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I'm not. I'm don't know what this persons age or occupation is, but based on his lack of knowledge on the subject I think its pretty safe to assume he lied about his occupation.

Pro tip, just because someone says something doesn't make it true. There's this thing called lying, and people tend to do it on the internet.

Internet/Forums= Everyone thinks they are the smartest man/girl alive.

Example:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

HAHAHAHA WOW ARE YOU SERIOUSLY EQUATING BACKBONE LEVEL PEERING AGREEMENTS WITH P2P FILE SHARING AND TORRENTS! WOW. Thanks for confirming for everyone else in this thread that you know nothing. Kiddo, you've got nothing more you can bring to this thread.

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hehe ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

You gave up arguing with me because I disproved everything you said. You were trying to tell me that distance has nothing to do with latency lol... and suggesting that FFXIV using peeing is really wild, the only peering FFXIV uses is for it's updates. Do you even know what peering is?

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HAHAHAHA WOW ARE YOU SERIOUSLY EQUATING BACKBONE LEVEL PEERING AGREEMENTS WITH P2P FILE SHARING AND TORRENTS! WOW. Thanks for confirming for everyone else in this thread that you know nothing. Kiddo, you've got nothing more you can bring to this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Internet/Forums= Everyone thinks they are the smartest man/girl alive.

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There's this thing called google.com, and it has all the answers to your questions. You don't even have to be smart to prove how crazy this argument is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

There's this thing called google.com, and it has all the answers to your questions. You don't even have to be smart to prove how crazy this argument is.

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Maybe use your Google 'skillz' to look up what network peering is and how it works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

HAHAHAHA WOW ARE YOU SERIOUSLY EQUATING BACKBONE LEVEL PEERING AGREEMENTS WITH P2P FILE SHARING AND TORRENTS! WOW. Thanks for confirming for everyone else in this thread that you know nothing. Kiddo, you've got nothing more you can bring to this thread.

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Since you're obviously confused here you go buckaroo, http://searchtelecom.techtarget.com/definition/peering.
Weren't you the one who said something about reading comprehension? You're grasping at some pretty wild straws now. Lol you sure are getting mad, but I guess that's to be expected of someone who just got proved wrong.

Your posts are starting to paint a picture of your real age. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

There's this thing called google.com, and it has all the answers to your questions. You don't even have to be smart to prove how crazy this argument is.

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google is good, if you can actually know what are you looking and know what you really need to know.
If i look on google scientifical texts on nuclear fusion, i can't expect to actually understand what they say. Why you should find tecnical information on servers if you don't know shit on servers ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Internet/Forums= Everyone thinks they are the smartest man/girl alive.

Example:

hehe ;)

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Nice so, Mijin posts a very obvious fallacy and you attack me? Good goin'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Since you're obviously confused here you go buckaroo, http://searchtelecom.techtarget.com/definition/peering.
Weren't you the one who said something about reading comprehension? You're grasping at some pretty wild straws now. Lol you sure are getting mad, but I guess that's to be expected of someone who just got proved wrong.

Your posts are starting to paint a picture of your real age. :)

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You were the one stated that the only peering XIV was doing was for updating (read torrenting). I know full well what peering agreements are. Now that YOU actually know maybe we can have a productive discussion on the matter rather than you thinking network peering == peer to peer file sharing.

Also I don't take kindly to younglins' like yourself disputing my career experience. You're only 26 and based off YOUR posts you haven't even worked remotely in ANY IT or CIS related field. I know you think you're young, invincible and all wise, but you are not. Don't delude yourself into that, or you will always be on the losing end of these discussions. Take from someone older and wiser than you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

You were the one stated that the only peering XIV was doing was for updating (read torrenting). I know full well what peering agreements are. Now that YOU actually know maybe we can have a productive discussion on the matter rather than you thinking network peering == peer to peer file sharing.

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Lol I seriously can't tell at this point if you are taking the things I say out of context for the take of argument or if you are just that oblivious.

Maybe you should take a break from posting for a while, you seem pretty upset, and you haven't posted anything productive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

google is good, if you can actually know what are you looking and know what you really need to know.
If i look on google scientifical texts on nuclear fusion, i can't expect to actually understand what they say. Why you should find tecnical information on servers if you don't know shit on servers ?

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Well yeah obviously nuclear fusion is very complicated, but the stuff we're talking about here isn't rocket science. I personally have -some- knowledge on the subject from when I was in college, but even for someone absolutely oblivious it should be easy to figure out via Google what some people are trying to suggest here isn't possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I'm not. I'm don't know what this persons age or occupation is, but based on his lack of knowledge on the subject I think its pretty safe to assume he lied about his occupation.

Pro tip, just because someone says something doesn't make it true. There's this thing called lying, and people tend to do it on the internet.

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True, people have been known to fib a bit on the internet. But there are plenty of FFXIV players who work in the Information Technology field.

What evidence do you have to prove that he doesn't do work as a Network Engineer? He seems to know what he's talking about, to me, and I've been doing IT for about 8 years now.

Oh, sorry, but I guess you don't believe that.

Lol. But do continue, it's pretty fun to read. I have about two more hours left here at work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

True, people have been known to fib a bit on the internet. But there are plenty of FFXIV players who work in the Information Technology field.

What evidence do you have to prove that he doesn't do work as a Network Engineer? He seems to know what he's talking about, to me, and I've been doing IT for about 8 years now.

Oh, sorry, but I guess you don't believe that.

Lol. But do continue, it's pretty fun to read. I have about two more hours left here at work.

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I'm just going off the fact that it isn't possible to make connections faster for everyone in one region by adding some kind of mystery machine. This sort of thing doesn't exist. Kind of proves he lied about his occupation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Lol I seriously can't tell at this point if you are taking the things I say out of context for the take of argument or if you are just that oblivious.

Maybe you should take a break from posting for a while, you seem pretty upset, and you haven't posted anything productive.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

You gave up arguing with me because I disproved everything you said. You were trying to tell me that distance has nothing to do with latency lol... and suggesting that FFXIV using peeing is really wild, the only peering FFXIV uses is for it's updates. Do you even know what peering is?

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Your post. I took nothing out of context. I'm sure others will read into your response the same way I did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I'm just going off the fact that it isn't possible to make connections faster for everyone in one region by adding some kind of mystery machine. This sort of thing doesn't exist.

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Once again its not a 'mystery machine' its called a private leased line network.

http://www.operatorchan.org/k/src/134534611661.jpg

Personally it will be interesting to see what the devs have to say about this on Monday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Personally it will be interesting to see what the devs have to say about this on Monday.

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Indeed, me too. I mean we all may very well be wrong. It could be they plan server mirrors/relays over a leased line network as I described. Or it could very well be regional specific servers. We shall see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Indeed, me too. I mean we all may very well be wrong. It could be they plan server mirrors/relays over a leased line network as I described. Or it could very well be regional specific servers. We shall see.

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Is this what you think they are gonna do? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AS...connection.svg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Your post. I took nothing out of context. I'm sure others will read into your response the same way I did.

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Yeah, and in my discussion with that person they suggested that your Final Fantasy XIV uses peering. What ISPs do =/= what FFXIV does... My statement is correct that the only peering that FFXIV directly does is during updates through p2p. Don't blame me for your misinterpretation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Once again its not a 'mystery machine' its called a private leased line network.

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the term "leased line" doesn't even remotely apply to the subject being discussed here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

Is this what you think they are gonna do? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AS...connection.svg

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Didn't you just bash me for using Wikipedia? And no, that illustration doesn't apply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Didn't you just bash me for using Wikipedia? And no, that illustration doesn't apply.

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Actually it does apply. SE very likely has their own ASN for BGP peering and route announcements. Assuming they build data centers in two other regions, they could perform BGP route announcements in such a way that reduces transit time.

Still doing lookups, found the follow ASNs so far:

AS17685 - PLAYONLINE SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
in -> as-block: AS17408 - AS18409

AS23784 - POLEXCHENGE SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
in -> as-block: AS23773 - AS23836

Going to take a look in those blocks might be they have some IP address ranges assigned for XIV specifically. I imagine SE, as a software business, requires a lot of bandwidth. MMOs even further expand that requirement. I imagine SE DOES have direct peering agreements with multiple Japanese carriers, throughout Europe and the Americas. Especially since they have offices in those locations.

Quote:

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Didn't you just bash me for using Wikipedia? And no, that illustration doesn't apply.

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I didn't bash you, you called him out for using google search when you was doing the same thing...I never said it was wrong to use it. You said it was wrong to use google search for claims then in turn did it your self..... I was asking him a question cause i looked up what network peering was and i got linked tot hat photo...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Actually it does apply. SE very likely has their own ASN for BGP peering and route announcements. Assuming they build data centers in two other regions, they could perform BGP route announcements in such a way that reduces transit time.

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Yep I agree, It does relate to what Yoshida is actually trying to pull off, with Data centers being in different regions ( AS1, AS2,AS3 etc etc) and which every the "Customer" is the closest too, ( in that diagram being AS5), will be the Customers go to Data center. ( that is of course if I'm reading the diagram correctly :p)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

I didn't bash you, you called him out for using google search when you was doing the same thing...I never said it was wrong to use it. You said it was wrong to use google search for claims then in turn did it your self..... I was asking him a question cause i looked up what network peering was and i got linked tot hat photo...

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No, I said his information was the result of misunderstanding google search results. I support people using google before they post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Actually it does apply. SE very likely has their own ASN for BGP peering and route announcements. Assuming they build data centers in two other regions, they could perform BGP route announcements in such a way that reduces transit time.

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Well now your contradicting yourself. That's an illustration of interconnection and peering of autonomous systems, and you said the solution was a leased line. That illustration has literally nothing to do with this discussion.

You may also be interested to know that leased lines only exist in USA, UK, India, Hong Kong, and Italy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Well now your contradicting yourself. That's an illustration of interconnection and peering of autonomous systems and you said the solution was a leased line. That illustration has literally nothing to do with this discussion.

You may also be interested to know that leased lined only exist in USA, UK, India, Hong Kong, and Italy.

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Incorrect leased lines can be built as virtual circuits attached to a physical interface. So they can be bundled over one physical medium and specific traffic shaping rules assigned. They are used all the time for over trans-oceanic fiber. I've configured plenty for domestic AND international clients.

It doesn't matter what the physical medium is since its piggy backed onto a physical interface at the router level. Its one of many ways to optimize routing. BGP route announcements (public and private) and leased lines can and often are used in conjunction. One common use is reducing the number of routers your traffic passes through while announcing your public IP address space to both ends of the leased line. BGP in itself doesn't optimize routing. That is done through peering agreements. BGP just announces the that addressable IPs are attached to a specific AS.

IF SE has peering agreements with specific providers it is possible they can change their BGP announcements to reduce latency without a leased line between the two other data centers. It just really depends because its situational.

I know that despite increasing evidence that I clearly know what I'm talking about, you won't believe me either way. If I wasn't bound by disclosure contracts, I would tell you specifically who I work for (HINT: Its a large backbone provider that is well known for pushing IPv6 roll out) But I'm not going to risk my career over a sniveling troll.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Incorrect leased lines can built as virtual circuits attached to a physical circuit. They are used all the time for over trans-oceanic fiber. I've configured plenty for domestic AND international clients. It doesn't matter what the physical medium is since its piggy backed onto a physical interface. Its one of many ways to optimize routing. BGP route announcements (public and private) and leased lines can and often are used in conjunction.

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No.

You're making your posts overly verbose and filling it with terms that don't even relate to hide the fact that you're just spouting random nonsense.

I'm going to make this really simple. Yes, hops effect your connection speed, but hops are something that is a result of your ISP, SE cannot control or improve them. While they effect your speed, the real problem with latency is coming from the DISTANCE of the the servers. They are far away, really far for most of us. The only way to solve this is to add new servers that are closer.

The fact is that Yoshidas statment, "The players will have a choice of selecting a server based in their region or a server overseas" doesn't have anything to do with peering, leased lines, or any other crazy things that don't relate to the issue. The thing that got everyone confused is the term "data center," and it's been explained many times now that a data center is just a building that houses servers. The only reason why Yoshida didn't elaborate further is because they were short on time.

Some of you feel strongly against this happening, and you want to believe is isn't. I can't do anything more to convince you, so I guess you'll just have to wait and see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

No.

You're making your posts overly verbose and filling it with terms that don't even relate to hide the fact that you're just spouting random nonsense.

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Actually I've been pretty detailed, considering I'm replying to a crappy troll on some forums. Apparently you don't know how ATM works or what it is. (In before Hurr durr Automated teller machine article on wikipedia)

Just noticed something else. Why is it all the troll posters tend to originate from the Sargatanas server? Seriously? Is it some weird conspiracy? Back when idiots where necroposting in 2 year old threads, or mass spamming topics. Mostly all Sargatanas players. Not that I'm generalizing everyone from that server. Just a weird observation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Actually I've been pretty detailed, considering I'm replying to a crappy troll on some forums. Apparently you don't know how ATM works or what it is. (In before Hurr durr Automated teller machine article on wikipedia)

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"Hi, I can't win this argument, so you're a troll."

You are just unbelievable. I've seen a lot of people full of it on the internet but you take the cake. The simple fact is, what is causing the latency issue is the distance from our clients to the servers in Japan. The only way to fix that is to bring new servers to our region, and that's exactly word for word what Yoshida said he was going to do. Hops are a result of your ISP, and SE can't do anything about it. Everything you have said in this thread has been based on fiction, and a general lack of understanding of how the internet works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

With the exception of Kanji.

Hiragana and katakana are extremly easy to look up. Kanji doesn't make up a whole lot of the language you see in XIV considering a good chunk of those 2136 individual pictrograms you mention don't come up in general conversation at all.

So yes you can still grasp something from using your smartphone or even hardware keyboard on other devices. It's not rocket science.

*edit*

Is it a optimal solution? Of course not but it is a viable option for those unable to copy/paste the text into google trans (Still using google translation is dubious at best when actually getting a real interpretation of Japanese or other languages)

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So rarely am I presented with a situation where, regardless of your actual knowledge of Japanese, am I able to reply with the following.

lulwut?

They're called Everyday Kanji for a reason. Spend some time on JP primetime and tell me if a person without any understanding of Japanese can honestly decipher the individual radicals of 2-3 kanji per word to create a compound word.

For example, one of the smaller JP shouts I encountered.
朝から極行きませんかー？募集確認の上お入りください＾＾＠2/8

Is a lay person going to be able to pick out the radicals per Kanji to find the Kanji, to find out the definition of the Kanji and then put that in with the sentence?

Google Translate renders this sentence as "Why do not you go from the very morning? Please enter check on recruitment." When in fact, what this person is saying is "Shall we do (extreme Ifrit) until morning? Please check the confirm in recruitment(menu)."

If you're telling me a person can do what I've outlined above with little to no understanding of Japanese, then your standards for human intelligence are much higher than mine.

Ping servers. That's it. Not separation based off of location.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoarLegion

Google Translate renders this sentence as "Why do not you go from the very morning? Please enter check on recruitment." When in fact, what this person is saying is "Shall we do (extreme Ifrit) until morning? Please check the confirm in recruitment(menu)."

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I've allready commented on the dubiousness of using google translate at all much earlier in this thread. It's far from the perfect solution but it's all people who don't understand the language have and SE can't help it that they added translation terms for

Ifrit Bleeds We can Kill it. It's up to the Japanese community to use the automatically translated terms for other users, this is no fault on SE's part, it's impossible for SE to somehow translate Japanese into plain english due to the differences in the languages.

I don't get what your trying to say. What do you expect SE to do? What do you expect the community do?

English players often shout in english leaving players who speak other languages to their own devices to translate the messages if they deem it so. I've never said that the layman can always translate a Japanese shout but it's not impossible in most cases. If the sentence is heavy on Kanji then no there isn't much that you can do because Kanji itself is hard to translate and interpret in context by a automated service.

I play with Japanese players on a regular basis and no I don't speak much Japanese myself outisde my own interests so I do often rely on outside services such as google translate and it often does a servicable job when I need it to. Is it perfect? No, but there will never be a perfect option or we would see "Auto translate" in more than a game and wide-spread through the world and translators would find themselves having a hard time finding work.