WoW's player housing will have no FOMO and private housing wards

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Originally Posted by Shougun

WoW doesn't have blue because WoW would just make blue a normal job, FFXIV had to limp noodle it because they can't figure out how to make jobs unique. Solid L for FFXIV with how they approached BLU in my book.

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WoW ain't much better with Evokers, a exclusive class on a race with very limited transmog options.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

WoW ain't much better with Evokers, a exclusive class on a race with very limited transmog options.

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That it's limited to one race is silly, agreed. They did allow that race more jobs, but it would be nice to see a few more races be able to become evokers. It is better though, because they can partake in all content just like other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Luluya

-The GM team works pretty well in my experience in WoW

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GM team works on JP side too, in here. Dunno why eng GM's are how they are.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

For NA and EU. JP's PvP Scene is basically each Data Center there had 2 NA data center's worth of active players. While our scene was dying and had weeks without playing, JP had matches regularly the entire season without fail, holidays included, for longer time periods each day as well. Their PvP tournaments are more frequent, have had up to a bil gil in prizes, and irl company sponsorships. Meanwhile CN's LP scene for PvP is so big that from what I've heard, they have more active players than NA, EU, OCE, and JP combined. CN And KR have their top 100/30/rank 1 rewards in a tournament format officially sponsored as opposed to ladders that can be wintrade instead so they have motivation to take PvP more serious.

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Holy hell I went to bed, woke up, showered, make a grand breakfast, did some work, and you are STILL white knighting

you need to ask for a raise bro

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

Holy hell I went to bed, woke up, showered, make a grand breakfast, did some work, and you are STILL white knighting

you need to ask for a raise bro

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And I woke up to 2-3 people repeating things to me that I already said earlier in the thread that they missed like they posted some type of counter-argument that would change things. Argument shifted from speaking about WoW staff's capabilities relative to industry staff, to game comparisons in every thing else that are primarily direction/goal differences and don't necessarily reflect on staff ability to hit said goal that they aren't even the one's making. If it wasn't for the occasional "WoW dissapointed me with this feature" that adds to the actual discussion of competency of goal completion, I probably would've dipped considering you're the just typical person to spam emotional sentiments and not get into objective, verifiable discussions. After a certain point, I don't engage in those conversations, unless I plan to take that person's money from a bet because I don't mind abusing emotional people for their future benefit of learning to check themselves before they talk carelessly too much.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

I mean, overall better is going to depend on what you consider even relevant to the argument.
- Does WoW have a golden saucer replacement?
- Does WoW have a mahjong replacement?
- Does WoW have gpose?
- Does WoW have adventure plates?
- Does WoW have social media character accounts with 10-20k+ followers that get messaged by irl companies by accident to have their in-game character sponsor irl products?
- Does WoW have ()Mare Lamentorum()?
- Does WoW have a permanent float emote?
- Is WoW available on consoles at all?
- Does WoW have a venue scene?
- Does WoW have barding groups?
- Does WoW let you play other games easily?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and do custom matches with top pvp players regularly?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and answer questions in in-game chat randomly?
- Does WoW have a blue mage equivalent?

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The creative director only interacts with the JP side of the community.
they don't even talk to international player base

Blue mage sucks and is not actually a class

()Mare Lamentorum() has nice music however Square is too prideful to acknowledge it while being very will they won't they axe it drama every other month
this is not an issue for wow I understand

Adventure plates are nice but not everyone uses them

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Fluff that WoW players desperately want for years now, and only get drip-fed by features that are not directly given to them.
I have seen a LOT of roleplayers that would go crazy when Blizzard finally would implement those properly to their game.

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Outside of roleplayers, which is an extremely small community mainly on two realms, no, they don't. We don't care about facial detail and such. No one is zoomed in like that to care. Mogs are more important in wow than anything customizable with our characters.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

And I woke up to 2-3 people repeating things to me that I already said earlier in the thread that they missed like they posted some type of counter-argument that would change things. Argument shifted from speaking about WoW staff's capabilities relative to industry staff, to game comparisons in every thing else that are primarily direction/goal differences and don't necessarily reflect on staff ability to hit said goal that they aren't even the one's making. If it wasn't for the occasional "WoW dissapointed me with this feature" that adds to the actual discussion of competency of goal completion, I probably would've dipped considering you're the just typical person to spam emotional sentiments and not get into objective, verifiable discussions. After a certain point, I don't engage in those conversations, unless I plan to take that person's money from a bet because I don't mind abusing emotional people for their future benefit of learning to check themselves before they talk carelessly too much.

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Blud the only thing you said in this entire thread was "iF ff14 hAsN't SOlVed iT thEn HoW caN WoW" in 3194386 different permutations

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

The creative director only interacts with the JP side of the community.
they don't even talk to international player base

Blue mage sucks and is not actually a class

()Mare Lamentorum() has nice music however Square is too prideful to acknowledge it while being very will they won't they axe it drama every other month
this is not an issue for wow I understand

Adventure plates are nice but not everyone uses them

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This isn't an ideal response to the topic as it's the fact the feature exists and whether there is a playerbase that finds it important or meaningful to their enjoyment of the game for what 'overall' is defined as including that is the subject. Your personal opinion of their quality does not matter. What playerbase demographic has access to it does not matter. What the developer response to their existence is does not matter. Is overall being defined as what every single player has to find important, or are we including things that any player finds important. That is the question.

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

Blud the only thing you said in this entire thread was "iF ff14 hAsN't SOlVed iT thEn HoW caN WoW" in 3194386 different permutations

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Don't call me blud. This is a forum about housing, I'm not about to match that energy if it's not in voice chat.

On the point of "But the QoL we have" - Let's be real, much of the QoL in this game has come at the expense of ripping its own soul out.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

Don't call me blud. This is a forum about housing, I'm not about to match that energy if it's not in voice chat.

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You lost, buddy?

https://i.ibb.co/yFXDv15P/Screenshot...-06-123823.png

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

You lost, buddy?

https://i.ibb.co/yFXDv15P/Screenshot...-06-123823.png

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https://i.imgur.com/RrjSfUu.png

https://i.imgur.com/mq12ZRD.png

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

You lost, buddy?

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

are STILL white knighting

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

Apparently to Sqaure Enix employees though, if it has never been done before it will forever stay impossible. Such reflects their skill.

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

Dear SE employee desperately trying to defend your dinosaur age system:
.

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https://i.imgur.com/rrltwca.png

Like I said, I'm not matching that blud energy. And I'm not your buddy. Chill out.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

https://i.imgur.com/rrltwca.png

Like I said, I'm not matching that blud energy. And I'm not your buddy. Chill out.

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Oh no, the white knight is panicking

NOOOO the FF14 forum users are not listening to me!! NOOO they think WoW housing is going to be better

NOOOOOO

Oh baby the backfire, WOW is playing a forehead chest move and square enix will fudge it up like always with lame reply.

Yoshi P will ask the player to stay play his game. He better do something about it or else Blizzard will get back to they re prime time. Square enix do not want to see that tbh.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

Oh baby the backfire, WOW is playing a forehead chest move and square enix will fudge it up like always with lame reply.

Yoshi P will ask the player to stay play his game. He better do something about it or else Blizzard will get back to they re prime time. Square enix do not want to see that tbh.

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You know what would be funny? If Blizzard made a WoW version with a more realistic art style—or at least added a checkbox to switch the visuals.

Not the cartoony, chunky look it has now, but something more grounded. I wonder how many people would check it out just for that—and whether it could pull a good chunk of FFXIV’s player base, considering a sizable portion (myself included) avoids WoW purely because of its art style.

That would be a welcome 5D chessmove.

Now that Mao playing WoW, Mao glad that soon Mao gets own house in WoW. Mao still hopings House system gets betters in FFXIV though. Is good for everyones!

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Outside of roleplayers, which is an extremely small community mainly on two realms, no, they don't. We don't care about facial detail and such. No one is zoomed in like that to care. Mogs are more important in wow than anything customizable with our characters.

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They do. Even outside RP servers people care about their character appearance. You can only look so good in armor when the face isn't matching. Why do you think the add-on Narcissus is made for, the WoW answer to /Gpose?
It costs them barely anything to implement these changes properly as character customization.
They shouldn't only raise the bar, they also should lift the bottom so everyone can benefit from higher standards.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

https://i.imgur.com/rrltwca.png

Like I said, I'm not matching that blud energy. And I'm not your buddy. Chill out.

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Just ignore him he is a waste of time and forum space.

Cool! Still not a great enough reason for me to want to swap over to WOW, but CS3 needs to step up, and undo all their housing mistakes.

If the WoW housing is as customizable as FFXIV's is, then good for them. And maybe SE could learn something. I don't know if we have that sort of details to make that claim yet.

I played LOTRO for a few years. The housing in that game would just spin up another ward when one was full or almost full. There was upkeep, but I recall it being very cheap. And if you left for (I think 6 weeks?) - the upkeep would freeze and you had to pay some penalty - like 10 weeks of upkeep when you came back. But you kept your property.

The big difference though was it was not really customizable. There were slots for items. A table goes in one slot, a chair in another, a lamp in another. And those slots were only for a few items that could "fit" there. Essentially, the options were so limited. Unlike how in FFXIV, we can fit hundreds of items that can be at specific coordinates, rotating on 3 axis, dyed, etc.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I mean, shucks, WildStar managed to create "infinite" housing and it didn't have anywhere near the number of developers working on it or budget of Final Fantasy 14.

So it's not impossible, it's just that Square-Enix doesn't want to do it for any number of reasons, some are valid, but others are bullshit.
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I'm sure socializing occurs on SOME housing wards in certain worlds, but it sure as hell doesn't happen on Maduin.

My world is so dead, I managed to get a personal and FC house literally across the street from each other with zero competition both times. (And I bought an apartment up the street for the lulz too). I am under no delusion of a "neighborhood vibe" here.

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They should just break up Dynamis and merge them with the other three DC, like have Seraph, Kraken and Hali go to Primal for example and just add an extra world for the 9th slot if broken up into three worlds per DC, that would do lots of good I think and help ease congestion of those busier DC and also increase que times for content now that cross DC DF is in the works.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I mean, shucks, WildStar managed to create "infinite" housing and it didn't have anywhere near the number of developers working on it or budget of Final Fantasy 14.

So it's not impossible, it's just that Square-Enix doesn't want to do it for any number of reasons, some are valid, but others are bullshit.
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I'm sure socializing occurs on SOME housing wards in certain worlds, but it sure as hell doesn't happen on Maduin.

My world is so dead, I managed to get a personal and FC house literally across the street from each other with zero competition both times. (And I bought an apartment up the street for the lulz too). I am under no delusion of a "neighborhood vibe" here.

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Wildstar also had neighborhoods... In a format that actually made sense. Where you could have your own space or optionally join up with others and make a mega instance. Too bad they went way too hardcore on the gameplay side, imo housing was the only thing that slowed their death down.

I think WoW may do better than ours but outside of specific people making events, neighborhoods are really just born to die, if they are the only system they honestly just cramp customization and opportunities.

Hope WoW will do both, akin to Wildstar, or sort of a FFXIV meets ESO. That'd be insane. Id love for the people who want to make a 'loud' (open) space to gather together and those who don't to leave it alone so both groups can have maximum opportunities.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I've been suggesting a merge for well over a year now, though as for which worlds go where, I'd say send the 2 least populated Dynamis worlds to Aether while the remaining 6 get split between Primal & Crystal, and when the 2 new Aether additions get full enough, THEN give them a 9th world to bring them up to Primal & Cystal's amount.

The only thing I can't say for certain is how they would determine which of the 6 other Dynamis worlds get split between Primal & Crystal, but as someone who never did RP but did lots of PVP, I would be biased towards adding Maduin to Primal (provided we aren't one of the most dead worlds and got shuffled to Aether instead).

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Pretty sure the three new worlds that isn't Kraken have much smaller populations than Maduin, so swap Hali with Maduin and have Seraph and Kraken being largest Dynamis worlds join Primal since it's the smallest of the big three DC.

Hoping to be wrong, but what they've shown already has the same hallmarks of the Garrison system that made them call it a failure. If that was anything to go by, it'll go like this:

* Release housing system suitable for only the two main races.
* Races that aren't orcs or humans don't want orc or human houses, so they don't interact with the system, waiting for the promised "houses for other races will be coming later."
* Blizzard declares "not many people interact with the system, so we're shelving it" because only orcs and humans interact with the system, and they're a small percentage of all races played.
* Blizzard congratulate themselves on another "we tried housing and nobody liked it" Monkey Paw finger curled.

I mean... probably.

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Originally Posted by Tyintheron

Hoping to be wrong, but what they've shown already has the same hallmarks of the Garrison system that made them call it a failure. If that was anything to go by, it'll go like this:

* Release housing system suitable for only the two main races.
* Races that aren't orcs or humans don't want orc or human houses, so they don't interact with the system, waiting for the promised "houses for other races will be coming later."
* Blizzard declares "not many people interact with the system, so we're shelving it" because only orcs and humans interact with the system, and they're a small percentage of all races played.
* Blizzard congratulate themselves on another "we tried housing and nobody liked it" Monkey Paw finger curled.

I mean... probably.

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I don't think Blizzard's approach to implementing housing is wrong. Getting the underlying systems implemented first before providing a wide variety of cosmetic customisations is absolutely the better idea. Otherwise you just end up like Square Enix in which every housing system change happens at glacial pace and poorly covers cracks/flaws in the original system.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'm sure socializing occurs on SOME housing wards in certain worlds, but it sure as hell doesn't happen on Maduin.

My world is so dead, I managed to get a personal and FC house literally across the street from each other with zero competition both times. (And I bought an apartment up the street for the lulz too). I am under no delusion of a "neighborhood vibe" here.

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It happened in the RP servers back in the day, sometimes with groups of RPers going out of their houses and actually RPing around in the ward, but like they'd RP anywhere in the world really, but that's about it. Not saying this is a useless feature though. Just.. hard to justify imo.

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Originally Posted by Johners

I don't think Blizzard's approach to implementing housing is wrong. Getting the underlying systems implemented first before providing a wide variety of cosmetic customisations is absolutely the better idea. Otherwise you just end up like Square Enix in which every housing system change happens at glacial pace and poorly covers cracks/flaws in the original system.

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I don't think it's fundamentally wrong either. Their decision-making in the past is the issue.

For example: with Garrisons, they were initially meant to have building styles for every race introduced, with only "Human" and "Orc" styles available to begin with. So, of course, if you played another race you probably didn't interact with the Garrison as much.

They then used that lack of interaction from "more people" as an excuse to never add those other styles at all, ever.

With that in mind, their current approach feels worryingly familiar.

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Originally Posted by Tyintheron

I don't think it's fundamentally wrong either. Their decision-making in the past is the issue.

For example: with Garrisons, they were initially meant to have building styles for every race introduced, with only "Human" and "Orc" styles available to begin with. So, of course, if you played another race you probably didn't interact with the Garrison as much.

They then used that lack of interaction from "more people" as an excuse to never add those other styles at all, ever.

With that in mind, their current approach feels worryingly familiar.

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What lack of interaction? Garrisons were pretty much the only thing to do in Warlords of Draenor unless you raided so they got plenty of interaction (especially the mission table).

They never implemented the other race features because they decided Garrisons would be content specific to WoD, not evergreen, so it would be a waste of effort to add the additional building options. That became especially true when Garrisons turned out to be far more labor intensive than they had estimated so they had to pull developers from other content to help Garrisons be functional for beta testing and finished before the release date (which resulted in some of the other planned getting cut, RIP Shattrath raid). Tom Chilton had done a fairly extensive interview with a German game publication at Gamescon 2014 talking about the problems they ran into.

But I agree, I'm skeptical that they'll deliver what the article implies.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What lack of interaction? Garrisons were pretty much the only thing to do in Warlords of Draenor unless you raided so they got plenty of interaction (especially the mission table).

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The lack of interaction as "housing," where people didn't interact with them outside of their daily/weekly/mission table systems. It's where the whole "we already tried housing with garrisons" quote came from.

They made a choice to neuter the feature, then claimed that the neutered feature was proof nobody really wanted housing. Like selling a car without wheels, then saying the fact nobody bought one was proof "nobody wants cars."

It was completely disingenuous, and a real point of frustration for a lot of players from a company that would constantly reinforce their utter disdain for "casual content" like housing, transmog, alts, or anything else that might not contribute to your raid team's DPS.

So far the housing system is going that exact same route - big customization promises, very small number of initial options - so waiting to see what happens.

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

https://i.imgur.com/rrltwca.png

Like I said, I'm not matching that blud energy. And I'm not your buddy. Chill out.

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I like you xD

in end square can fix the issues with housing they just choose not to. Copy and pasting the same wards 20 more times will easily fix the housing issue I see you are a hali player also when that server first came up the housing wards were very gernerous and that was only the base amount of housing wards. (show me your in game house :>)

It is still a change how WoW took a direct shot at FF. I have a feeling that with Microsoft, they aren't going to have an issue coming at FF in an effort to chip off ff players to come to wow. FF is in some real trouble and the LL doesn't seem to change much.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

I like you xD

in end square can fix the issues with housing they just choose not to. Copy and pasting the same wards 20 more times will easily fix the housing issue I see you are a hali player also when that server first came up the housing wards were very gernerous and that was only the base amount of housing wards. (show me your in game house :>)

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Well, the funny part is that I think part of the reason we don't have more wards is because of a feature most people don't know about because they stopped talking about it. 2 years ago, they mentioned they wanted to add submarines to personal housing. A part of me has always suspected this was primarily delayed due to the amount of the inflation it would cause and them not having enough proper gil sinks in the game they were confident in to undo that and that's why we've seen the interest in gil mount and accessories being added recently. If that feature is still planned to happen, even multiplying the amount of wards won't stop the outbreak of even regular players owning multiple houses just for gil making sake. Not to mention the upgrade interior size they have planned is going to massive tank auto-demolition rates from what we previously had before they were paused since medium and large house demo frequency are drastically underneath small by a ridiculous margin. They have something planned they just haven't announced yet because I don't see them self-killing housing this blatantly without having something in store later to fix it even if it's a storm when implemented.

(show me your in game house -> the primary 2 i use. the rest i wasn't decorating until after the housing item limit patch because its too much gil to waste to perhaps redo entire layouts and i have to brush up on the new housing item combinations since the last time I was active in the housing community https://imgur.com/a/jevn5Tb )

So to be fair, WoW was decaying. Content releases got slower and slower, the passion seemed to be gone. The game wasn't formulaic but the risk they took made the players mad and whenever they got feedback they seemed dismissive of it. XIV is starting to remind of what it was like to play WoW in Shadowlands. The devs feel out of touch, complacent and unable or unwilling to take risk.

Considering Yoshi-P has always been so pro-taking breaks, the current housing system is extremely anti-consumer. It's the primary reason many people are still subbed to the game, which is vastly inflating player counts.
Now we're seeing that there is an alternative where we can both keep the neighbourhood atmosphere, and have unlimited housing. There is no excuses for them to make anymore, especially when they already created a similar system with Island Sanctuary. It's not "the game is old, spaghetti code" because WoW is older. It's not "it's too expensive to implement" because GW2 managed, and that game doesn't even have a sub.

I think that if we see a change, it'll be years from now. Because the current system makes them money, and it would cost them money to fix it.

I've never been so close to playing WoW. Never in my life did I think I'd even be considering that.

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Originally Posted by Andanie

So to be fair, WoW was decaying. Content releases got slower and slower, the passion seemed to be gone. The game wasn't formulaic but the risk they took made the players mad and whenever they got feedback they seemed dismissive of it. XIV is starting to remind of what it was like to play WoW in Shadowlands. The devs feel out of touch, complacent and unable or unwilling to take risk.

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Differences in dev culture and culture in general. Same with players.

People in WoW openly hate WoW most of the time. Half meme half reality, but its -their- game. The criticism is abound, and some of it makes it through to the devs. The air around critique is normal.
The devs have clear roadmaps, release new features. They COMMUNICATE (not always successful, but they TRY) I quit mainly for lore/story/worldbuilding decisions.

In FFXIV its like SE is a k-pop band and you get attacked by their fans the moment you try to even suggest and improvement or put out any critique towards their blatant lack of communication or lack of a roadmap to show to their players. "Poor devs this. Lack of resources that" while we SHOWER them with money and we barely get anything to show for it except some slightly different colored meat on top of the same old skeleton systems that they REFUSE to improve or add any QoL. Wheres raidplanner at? Where are chat bubbles at?

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Originally Posted by HunkyMarauder

I can already taste the hysteria two or three years later when FF14 players all quit and become FF14 refugees in WoW LMAO

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It could happen. And then FF14 would have to step up its game. Honestly, competition between two IPs is a good thing for the consumer.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

It could happen. And then FF14 would have to step up its game. Honestly, competition between two IPs is a good thing for the consumer.

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Consumers putting pressure on the game companies is also a good thing for the consumer but funnily enough there are many consumers who actively side with the firm. Can the competition overcome pure tribalism, I wonder?

XIV just need to put instanced housing. Not everyone like neighbours and just want to be able to get a hub for themselves and decorate.