Just discontinued subscription due to Wuk and increased wokeness across SE corp.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

Yeah I enjoy the raids, but I dont think doing them about 4 times a week is worth 10 bucks a month lol.

(ps. How long does it take for the forum to kick me off? I havent been subbed for a week)

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too bad, i also have friends to do more quirky things in there, not just laboring yourself to weekly reward.
you should too, try having friends, that is

"The political brainrot thread you ordered madam. Bone apple teeth."

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos...c9WT_N_Y7dAfY=

Hm... i don`t know. But DT to woke? lets see. Wuk Lamat is the only female lead charakter. Posible but not realy. Lets look ant ARR... hm... Leader of Limsa Merlwyb, Leader of Gridania Kan-E-Senna, Leader of Ul'dah Nanamo. Yeah DT is way too woke. (Thats sarkasm for those who don't understand)

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Originally Posted by Kasasagi

Hm... i don`t know. But DT to woke? lets see. Wuk Lamat is the only female lead charakter. Posible but not realy. Lets look ant ARR... hm... Leader of Limsa Merlwyb, Leader of Gridania Kan-E-Senna, Leader of Ul'dah Nanamo. Yeah DT is way too woke. (Thats sarkasm for those who don't understand)

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It's important to remember that people who complain about "woke" are just using the word "woke" to cover for their preferred racist or bigoted slur.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

It's important to remember that people who complain about "woke" are just using the word "woke" to cover for their preferred racist or bigoted slur.

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Woke meant something positiv once. Now its mostly used in a negativ sense.

this bait is trash

Imagine saying all that about a Japanese corporation.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

It's important to remember that people who complain about "woke" are just using the word "woke" to cover for their preferred racist or bigoted slur.

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"This is my opinion and it's the right one, if you disagree you're a bigot !"

To be frank, I hate the progression of woke ideology into gaming media: that's a conversation I would have with people. But that being said...

I'm sorry my man, I don't see much wokeness permeating FFXIV. Cat-lyse being played by the VA she's played by isn't a problem or a woke agenda; I don't like Cat-lyse, but it has little to do with the VA. Outside of that I don't really see any other problematic woke things working their way into FFXIV, and I say that because I've been cautiously watching.

We've seen gay characters sure, but that's not woke that's just reality: Some folk are gay, that harms no one. We've seen a push for peaceful resolutions, but that's not wokeism either. There being androgynous characters in the mana games also doesn't really strike me as woke. The Densetsu games have always had young characters, typically a bit too young to be these hulking muscle masses of men or voluptuous curvey women: this is just because it's the beginning of a heroes journey from a child into adulthood, a repeated background message in those stories. Children do not tend to sport six packs or G-cups, and I'm glad they remember that; would be creepy if they didn't.

If a character showed up in FF14 and made me take a walk away from the Main story to hear about their personal struggle with implications of how brave they are and how I should pause saving the world to hug them and recognize the truth of their identity, we'd have something to talk about. But that doesn't happen. The game preaches what the game devs decide was the 'correct' choice as being a moral absolute in a frusterating way sure, but that's also not wokeism.

And for anyone who would argue the above example is what cat-lyse did, no she did not. She sidelines, interrupted, and otherwise monopolized our time like a greedy child, but that's also not wokeism. That's just poor character design being over-represented in an intern-level plea for validation of the story writing.

Sorry to see you go guy, sorry to see anyone go honestly, but I don't see a wokeism problem in SE to date. Perhaps they'll prove me wrong one day, but right now I don't see sufficient evidence for that claim.

Define woke

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ns_of_Mana.png

Exhibit A: Five females, a baby dragon, and another "person" that is drawn ambiguously, most closely resembling a chest-bound non-binary.

https://www.comboinfinito.com.br/pri...-Mana-Xbox.jpg

Exhibit B: That is not the face of a male. Val's outfit even appears to be designed with what could easily be interpreted to be a chest binder.

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Man discovers that anime characters all look the same and man are vaguely androgynous.

Stop trying to make Gamergate 2 happen, it's not going to happen. You guys are absolutely pathetic and honestly, if including people of color and queer characters in games pushes you to leave, good riddance.

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Originally Posted by seraf

Define woke

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Woke is multiple things...

But sure, let me point out a few things that are woke.

- The erasure of women from media, and replacing them with "body type B"
- Excessive focus on peoples (both real and fictional) sexuality, gender and race
- Checklists and Quotas for including people of varying combinations of those features, in both real life positions and in media
- The complete destruction of meritocracy
- Racial supremacist ideology

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

- Racial supremacist ideology

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So the Nazis were woke? .....

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Originally Posted by seraf

Define woke

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Can only give my personal definition as it's a colloquial, but -

If being used as perjorative, which it typically is these days, pushing a particular ideology typically left-leaning at the expense of the source material in a fashion that projects, virtue signals, or otherwise confirms as correct without argument a particular moral opinion. See: Propaganda.


I.E., Taking time from a game about decommissioning [bad men with funny mustaches] with a boomstick to discuss the identity and importance of identity of your fellow soldiers while emphasizing a moral leaning as to acceptance of their claims to be the only rational human take. This does not loan itself to the core concept, decommissioning [bad men with funny mustaches] and only takes away from it by inserting something that has no additive value in the center of it.

If something serves to project two sides of an ideological argument on a topic easily, it is not 'woke' in my opinion, it's presenting an argument. It does not become a 'woke' issue until a moral opinion is asserted as the only valid answer, and this must be done at the expense of the core material or it is not 'woke.' A book about accepting the LGBT is not 'woke' either, it's just an ideology people may or may not agree with. Inserting said book into a game about shooting [bad men with funny mustaches] and then taking time aside to point out how it's correct and you should feel bad if you don't agree, would be 'woke.'

Admittedly I use a very narrow definition that requires context. I've been refining it due to the tides of people screaming 'woke' at the arrival of a female protag: it's gotten a bit silly really. I just want to see my silly fantasy game be a silly fantasy game, and not sell parts of itself off to this party or that in a cheap attempt to curry favor.

I enjoy a good argument, debate, or discussion: I do not enjoy the place I go to in order to not think of those things including a one-sided portrayal which then gets self-validated and shames me if I do not agree. I hate it when the more right-leaning groups do similar, it's not somehow excusable when more left leaning parties do it.



All that being said, I still don't see much if any 'woke' in FFXIV to date. When they bring these topics up they tend to give a fair assessment and leave it, rather than shame and otherwise gaslight the player. They are an MMO so a choice must be made, and I don't agree with all of them, but none of them feel necessarily disingenuous to me: just hamfisted at worst.

FFXIV is full of anime / JRPG trope, nowhere near being "woke" whatever it means.

Should I remain everyone that some people attacked Yoshi-P for not FFXVI casting not being diverse enough and he basically responded "Well, I do what I want with my game".

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So the Nazis were woke? .....

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Let me just point out that someone managed to get main kampf peer reviewed as a feminist publication by simply replacing all mentions of jews into just men.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Let me just point out that someone managed to get main kampf peer reviewed as a feminist publication by simply replacing all mentions of jews into just men.

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So the Nazis were woke?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So the Nazis were woke?

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Well if you absolutely want a yes or no answer, Yes they were.

these threads are great

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Well if you absolutely want a yes or no answer, Yes they were.

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I have to just quote this for posterity lol

This could be an interesting discussion. There could be a nuanced discourse about-- Nope. Nope, it boiled down to a nazi slap-fight again. Damnit Internet, why are you like this?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I have to just quote this for posterity lol

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mhm. nothing says woke like committing Genocide against a people, as well as the mass killings of minorities, such as people of color, lgbtqia+ people, etc.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

mhm. nothing says woke like committing Genocide against a people, as well as the mass killings of minorities, such as people of color, lgbtqia+ people, etc.

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It's more the reasonings WHY they did those things than the actions themselves... But hey, you do whatever you want.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

This could be an interesting discussion. There could be a nuanced discourse about-- Nope. Nope, it boiled down to a nazi slap-fight again. Damnit Internet, why are you like this?

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Most discussions on the internet end up invoking Godwin's Law.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

This could be an interesting discussion. There could be a nuanced discourse about-- Nope. Nope, it boiled down to a nazi slap-fight again. Damnit Internet, why are you like this?

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Unfortunately too many people do not share, or indeed outright despise, our interest in interesting, informed and nuanced discussions. They instead favour such bland and even reductive contests of who can shout louder or apply the most numerous and awful labels upon others. We can thank a combination of modern education and social media for this failure to think.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

This could be an interesting discussion.

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Could it?

(X) doubt

FFXIV just became better with this announcement by the OP.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

This could be an interesting discussion. There could be a nuanced discourse about-- Nope. Nope, it boiled down to a nazi slap-fight again. Damnit Internet, why are you like this?

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I doubt either side would ever bring anything interesting to the discussion.
One side will rage about gamergate and woke people and the other side will rage about nazism and chuds or something. Both sides are extremists nothing interesting would come out of it especially here.

Remember, kids: FFXIV is a part of a movement. We support the good guys and not the bad guys. And you know who that is, right? Yep, that's right. Uh huh. You just got owned. Get canceled. Delete your account. Our movement won and your movement lost. The good guys win again. Mods, lock this thread because I believe several people just got pwned. Boom, roasted!

Damn bro that's crazy. Make sure you pick up the milk while you're out

Lmao, someone put "angry titanmen alts" as a tag, not getting that titanmen uses LGBT stuff as bait to attract people like the person who added the tag. He's not Pro-LGBT. That's hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Could it?

(X) doubt

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I think it could have, honestly.

1.) Some people think the game is 'woke', which I disagree with myself.
2.) Some people think 'woke' is a good thing, which I also disagree with.

There's a lot of room in that discussion for growth and learning. Just because I disagree with people doesn't mean I cannot learn from them and reform my opinions with addition of their strong points. Everything is an opportunity for growth, no?

Then again the posting limit means it would probably turn into a nazi-slap fight once I couldn't reply anymore, so maybe you're right to doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

I think it could have, honestly.

1.) Some people think the game is 'woke', which I disagree with myself.
2.) Some people think 'woke' is a good thing, which I also disagree with.

There's a lot of room in that discussion for growth and learning. Just because I disagree with people doesn't mean I cannot learn from them and reform my opinions with addition of their strong points. Everything is an opportunity for growth, no?

Then again the posting limit means it would probably turn into a nazi-slap fight once I couldn't reply anymore, so maybe you're right to doubt it.

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"woke" by definition, literally just means "aware of the injustices prevalent in society".


The right has twisted it to mean "anything I don't like"

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Originally Posted by Sivante

I think it could have, honestly.

1.) Some people think the game is 'woke', which I disagree with myself.
2.) Some people think 'woke' is a good thing, which I also disagree with.

There's a lot of room in that discussion for growth and learning. Just because I disagree with people doesn't mean I cannot learn from them and reform my opinions with addition of their strong points. Everything is an opportunity for growth, no?

Then again the posting limit means it would probably turn into a nazi-slap fight once I couldn't reply anymore, so maybe you're right to doubt it.

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disagree, topic is stupid to begin with and obvious bait. was a slap-fight from page 1

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

"woke" by definition, literally just means "aware of the injustices prevalent in society".


The right has twisted it to mean "anything I don't like"

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That is certainly one of the definitions of the United States slang that is 'woke.' Not trying to disagree with you at all, but as I pointed out this term is used colloquially, so bringing clinical definitions that are argued into it isn't overly useful I feel? It's not as though we're entering clinical oration. The problem with making up terms in the slang of the vernacular is that we both end up using a word that means different things coming out of your mouth, than they mean coming out of my mouth. Even the Merriam Webster shows the definition you give as being a chiefly US slang.

This isn't me trying to 'own' you, not at all: I'm thankful you brought this up! Debates (and gods forfend the idea I present this thread as such) have a preferred rule for starting discourse with the defining of terms. Whether people agree that 'woke' means the same thing isn't important, but rather learning what each side means when they say it is the important part.

To you, woke means 'aware of injustices [...]' for example. For me, it means what I listed far above. That isn't the presentation of an argument, but it's very fruitful grounds on which to begin a discussion. Why X, Why Y? Why the differences?

Most importantly: If we cut away the fat on an example, would we end up agreeing on take-aways of a given topic despite having varying definitions? I like to think in most cases, we would. That's why I see promise in discourse like this, and why it disheartens me so much to see people just start the nazi slap fight I mentioned in lieu of discourse that would likely show how similar peoples opinions are, rather than how distant or exclusive from one another.

One is intrinsically damaging, the other is intrinsically uniting.

I think Wuk has a few character flaws here and there.

For the "wokeness" part though. I don't know if that applies in this situation, despite the Wuk's VA being trans.

Are there no moderators here? How is it possible that a thread like this can stay up?

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Originally Posted by FuwafuwaMii

Are there no moderators here? How is it possible that a thread like this can stay up?

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Seems like the fact someone has a different opinion than you is a big problem for you.

I'd suggest you dont read threads you dont like, but that'd be too logical, it's better to complain.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Seems like the fact someone has a different opinion than you is a big problem for you.

I'd suggest you dont read threads you dont like, but that'd be too logical, it's better to complain.

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It's a useless thread imo. Player no longer plays the game, it's yet another waste of time forum post. Problem isn't what their reasoning is. It's that they don't have a reason to announce to the forums they are leaving and looking for sympathy. Like who cares about your sub? Nobody not even SE because your already out the door.

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Originally Posted by alfarini

It's a useless thread imo. Player no longer plays the game, it's yet another waste of time forum post. Problem isn't what their reasoning is. It's that they don't have a reason to announce to the forums they are leaving and looking for sympathy. Like who cares about your sub? Nobody not even SE because your already out the door.

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SE sends people to the forums to give feedback when quitting and even in the ticket UI in the game,

Player left feedback.

You dont decide what is useless or isnt. Feedback isnt what you deem to be feedback. So nah this thread is fine, OP has the right to his opinion, just like you have the right to your opinion that its useless.

Its nice to see how wholesome the forums are im glad i put my trust in these ppl to keep me alive in trials i sure hope nothing bad happens....right?...right?????