They're thinking about job identities for 8.0

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Things get weird in ARR if we get a level squish. Let's be generous, and say we get a level squish, and the entirety of ARR ends at level 20. Dungeons like Sastasha, Tam Tara, and Copperbell would become like level 2 dungeons. Every single job will need to be dungeon ready in 2 levels. Which means cramming significantly more actions into those 2 levels. The game will force the developers to make decisions on what's important for each job's gameplay.

We could have ARR stay ending at level 50, and every expansion is just 5 levels, but we've just pushed the weird leveling problem out of ARR, and into each expansion. And just aesthetically, 5 levels per expansion feels kinda off. Jobs will have to change to compensate a compressed expansion leveling experience.

Another possibility is to stop leveling at 100, and introduce horizontal progression, and give each job a 'spec.' How many specs could each job have? The devs will have to make different specs for each job. Jobs will have to changes.

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You have like 3 buttons going into Sastasha anyway so I don't see this as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

They'll be doing lvl 110 after much consideration... They won't change the template.

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Basically this, this game is so steadfast in its ways, so formulaic, I can't see them not just going to 110 and put off changing anything for the sake it

If there was ever a time for a change it would've been DT, with a new story arc/starting point/leveling system. Instead we got.. finishers and a botched benchmark.

it'll either be 110 or some incredibly shallow "prestige" system that'll be widely hated by veterans but newer players and casuals will happily eat up.

yeah I don't see them doing anything other than just raising the cap to 110 in 8.0 and calling it a day. Yoshida may have said it would be half-hearted to do so, but half-hearted is the name of the game when it comes to XIV's combat.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

yeah I don't see them doing anything other than just raising the cap to 110 in 8.0 and calling it a day. Yoshida may have said it would be half-hearted to do so, but half-hearted is the name of the game when it comes to XIV's combat.

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the only reason i dont completely agree with this is yoshi p was afraid of making the newest spell lvls and opted to high fire, and just skirted the issue.

with 100 being on the same lvl of a big add to the FF name to go to 110 wouldnt be the easier decision for him even if honestly its not a big deal.

I really hope they consider almost complete overhaul to make the leveling combat feel better and endgame being less about buff stacking for the same burst window over and over.

As it is the old Job quests could be converted purely to story aside from maybe few high points if they happen to match well with rework.

It's criminal how long it takes for most Jobs to get their core abilities and systems, having a frontloaded system would make it more exciting to progress through the earlier parts of the story and allow people to see what the Job is all about before committing heavier into it and also it would improve the lower level dungeons, fates etc. experience.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

This is more along the lines of what Yoshi P mentioned will likely happen back when he was interiviewed about Dawntrail's level cap. He confirmed we'd be going to level 100, but after he wants to think about how to progress. Level 100 is a very iconic final level for the series (I'd say 99 is more commonly the cap but whatever), and going beyond that or reducing the max level would be "half-assed."

Personally, I'd like to see some unique interpretation of the sphere grid where each job gets its own visual progression system.

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I want them to stay at 100 then just do what ffxi did once you hit cap (havent played in along time so not sure if its changed from just extra stuff after but still capped). I’ll happily have jobs I enjoy less just stay at 100 while I continue to progress jobs I enjoy

So having read a little more into the various interviews from the media tour and seeing the reasoning advanced there to explain why a job system rework cannot happen at the same time than a full encounter system, I must admit that while the concern about leaving the players totally confused with too wide sweeping changes is certain something, that I don't understand why we got even further homogenization all across the board, instead of giving us a bone and doing some damage control? It feels a little dissonant on their part, and I can't help but suspect this whole debate has started relatively recently in the dev team and that they already had the whole jobs done for 7.0, which is a shame.

Still, I do wish we could get something done about this over the actual expansion, because thinking that we'll have to deal with this for 3 more years is just depressing to no end. They have already reworked jobs partially mid expansion, so it's not like it's something they have never done before.

I will add that this game doesn't need any more new jobs. The dev should really be focusing on what we have currently and how to make them more interesting, engaging, and unique.

choosing to have the underwhelming job expansion coincide with the big lvl100 is certainly a choice.

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Originally Posted by Valence

about leaving the players totally confused with too wide sweeping changes is certain something

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SE never fails to come up with the most hilarious excuses

I'm thinking of not resubbing til 8.0

Their target audience seems to be preteens. After you're a teen you're expected to have reading comprehension as well as critical thinking skills; whether you go to school or not.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I'm thinking of not resubbing til 8.0

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just quoting to check in 4 weeks :D

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Their target audience seems to be preteens. After you're a teen you're expected to have reading comprehension as well as critical thinking skills; whether you go to school or not.

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I never see anyone under the age of 18 in this game. I don't think mmos appeal to kids.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I never see anyone under the age of 18 in this game. I don't think mmos appeal to kids.

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Tell that to square enix; they're afraid we'll collapse out of anxiety if the game's made slightly harder.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Tell that to square enix; they're afraid we'll collapse out of anxiety if the game's made slightly harder.

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It's not really preteens. It's millennials and early gen Z, most of whom are over 25.

Now, the catch is that they've found a niche that other MMOs don't really cater to - and that's fragile players.

It's why the culture in this game has done a complete 180. The majority of the players now are the ones who say "Meowdy!" or "uwu" or ":3" acting cute and timid but oh boy the moment you go out of line just a little like early pulling a hunt they turn from a puwrr wittle kitten into a rabid cougar.

Reminds you of any group IRL? The same shift is happening too.

i think people need to ask themselves if they think changing EVERYTHING. and i mean shaking up the combat and the difficulty would be a good idea. take a plant into new soil it gets shock, introduce a fish to new water its gets shock. 80% of this games players are casuals. maybe 20% of the games players are raiders (look at athena savage kills) and of that 20% maybe only half of them are hardcore raiders (im not 1 for example) so this change would only really be there to please between 10-20% of players. what about the other 80? do u think theyll stay? you can bet your self in 3 weeks there will hundreds of threads complaining that dawntrail is JUST TOO HARD. and some of them will even leave. and this is something youll feel. whether its in your que times, your field content or in your fc. youll feel this. as im sure we all felt during the 6 months drought between 6.5 and now.

so see, the reason these 2 MASSIVE changes arent comming at once. is because 80% of players will be like that fish completely out of water. and this will result in mass outrage and could see ALL progress on job evolution scrapped. yoshiP promised harder content. and from what ive seen in dt newest dungeon. it looks harder. so he kept his word. and he said for 8.0 theyde look at job identity. so please just try to be patient. and enjoy what you have gotten, because it is still an improvement.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

It's not really preteens. It's millennials and early gen Z, most of whom are over 25.

Now, the catch is that they've found a niche that other MMOs don't really cater to - and that's fragile players.

It's why the culture in this game has done a complete 180. The majority of the players now are the ones who say "Meowdy!" or "uwu" or ":3" acting cute and timid but oh boy the moment you go out of line just a little like early pulling a hunt they turn from a puwrr wittle kitten into a rabid cougar.

Reminds you of any group IRL? The same shift is happening too.

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No, please elaborate on which group it reminds you of IRL :)

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

you can bet your self in 3 weeks there will hundreds of threads complaining that dawntrail is JUST TOO HARD. and some of them will even leave.

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http://10char.png
:o

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

http://10char.png
:o

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i thought people came to xiv instead of wow because that was wows things "play good or leave" its really weird to see people suggesting it here and then pretending like this is what xiv players are about.

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It's not really preteens. It's millennials and early gen Z, most of whom are over 25.

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i thought millenials COULDNT be over 25? "gen Z" arent they in there teens right now? what....?

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Now, the catch is that they've found a niche that other MMOs don't really cater to - and that's fragile players.

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i really dont think ffxiv caters to fragile players lol. it simply wants to set itself apart from the other hardcore MMOS with stances like this you're going to find yourself very alone on that hill lmao

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It's why the culture in this game has done a complete 180. The majority of the players now are the ones who say "Meowdy!" or "uwu" or ":3" acting cute and timid but oh boy the moment you go out of line just a little like early pulling a hunt they turn from a puwrr wittle kitten into a rabid cougar.

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i can see your a very popular guy on your server lmao

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Reminds you of any group IRL? The same shift is happening too.

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yea i dont think ur issue is with the player base at all. sounds like its with a certain demographic of people, and tbh. i really dont care for that kinda rhetoric here

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

so see, the reason these 2 MASSIVE changes arent comming at once. is because 80% of players will be like that fish completely out of water. and this will result in mass outrage and could see ALL progress on job evolution scrapped.

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I honestly have no idea where you get the idea that this would definitely happen.

Remember Stormblood launch? Remember all the people complaining non-stop about Shinryu? Remember how SE stood their ground and never nerfed him? Remember how the complaints eventually stopped? I don't remember any mass unsubbing that came from that.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i think people need to ask themselves if they think changing EVERYTHING. and i mean shaking up the combat and the difficulty would be a good idea. take a plant into new soil it gets shock, introduce a fish to new water its gets shock. 80% of this games players are casuals. maybe 20% of the games players are raiders (look at athena savage kills) and of that 20% maybe only half of them are hardcore raiders (im not 1 for example) so this change would only really be there to please between 10-20% of players. what about the other 80? do u think theyll stay? you can bet your self in 3 weeks there will hundreds of threads complaining that dawntrail is JUST TOO HARD. and some of them will even leave. and this is something youll feel. whether its in your que times, your field content or in your fc. youll feel this. as im sure we all felt during the 6 months drought between 6.5 and now.

so see, the reason these 2 MASSIVE changes arent comming at once. is because 80% of players will be like that fish completely out of water. and this will result in mass outrage and could see ALL progress on job evolution scrapped. yoshiP promised harder content. and from what ive seen in dt newest dungeon. it looks harder. so he kept his word. and he said for 8.0 theyde look at job identity. so please just try to be patient. and enjoy what you have gotten, because it is still an improvement.

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Bs, this community will happily eat dogshit as long as you sprinkle glitters on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Tell that to square enix; they're afraid we'll collapse out of anxiety if the game's made slightly harder.

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Kids have no problem with difficulty. They're young, they don't have expectations. If the game is hard they just git gud. It's the old folks like us that can't adjust.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Bs, this community will happily eat dogshit as long as you sprinkle glitters on top of it.

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So, by that logic...

If CBU3 design a new job with difficult playstyle and complex rotation, and then add a lot of flashy VFX and high quality, bad-ass animation on the said new job, will this community happily accept it...?

If the whole "This community will accept anything what CBU3 offer to them" thing is true...

Then, CBU3 should have no issue to design a new jobs that has difficult playstyle and complex rotation, along with complex encounter, since this community will happily accept it regardless, just as you claim.

There's some fallacy to that logic and statement, I afraid.

The only fallacy is you thinking they can design such a job.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

The only fallacy is you thinking they can design such a job.

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There's a wrong question to ask, my friend.

Instead of thinking "Can they design such job?"
Which they have proven that they more than capable to do so.

The true question is "Will they design such job?"

The folks inside forum can give at least 10 reason to convince CBU3 to do so.

But then again, the folks outside forum can too give at least 10 reason to convince CBU3 not to do so.

Beside, not so long ago you have some forum mate here who are content about how healers and BLM will be at DT release.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

There's a wrong question to ask, my friend.

Instead of thinking "Can they design such job?"
Which they have proven that they more than capable to do so.

The true question is "Will they design such job?"

The folks inside forum can give at least 10 reason to convince CBU3 to do so.

But then again, the folks outside forum can too give at least 10 reason to convince CBU3 not to do so.

Beside, not so long ago you have some forum mate here who are content about how healers and BLM will be at DT release.

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It's survivorship bias, pure and simple.

People who have a functioning brain have since left the game.

When they take into account player feedback, it includes playerbases with different outlooks on what the issues are w/ the jobs. I agree the job choices are frustrating; when they first took away manashift that honestly sucked to me, and since the changes to AST Post-Stormblood I'm just uninspired by it. AST was one of my mains for quite a while as well. I feel like I've been here a while, if 8.0 comes out and I dropped the game 2 months after speeding through DT, I know I'd pick it back up.

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

Wait, is there something wrong with the colors I haven't noticed?

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The Edo-period concept of Setsugekka is not only a visual representation of the passing of the seasons (Moon = Autumn, Snow = Winter, Flower = Spring), but can also be viewed as a color motif showing how the seasons progress through different tints of white (Moon = yellow white, Snow = blue white, Flower = pink white).

The new Midare Setsugekka move we are getting in DT correctly reflects this in the sword colors. You could also see the proper colors reflected in the respective Gekko, Yukikaze, Kasha (and Mangetsu/Oka) skills and hotbar symbols for each.

But the actual Sen symbols and Meikyo Shisui have been wrong from the beginning. Moon should not be blue; snow should not be green.

It's honestly baffling to me why they designed the sen symbols the way they did. There are mods which deliberately change them to different colors because Snow and Moon can be easily confused. But also, like, why go 99% of the way there and then totally ignore the color motif in the gauge?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

just quoting to check in 4 weeks :D

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People liek this are very weird.
Touch some grass perhaps rather than stalk someones profile for a pointless reason lol

You sure they saw all of the feedback? How is the Japanese Forum doing? Are they also complaining? Casue if they ain't nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by Micaiah_Larin

You sure they saw all of the feedback? How is the Japanese Forum doing? Are they also complaining? Casue if they ain't nothing will change.

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Nope, tbh most of the complaining seems to come from the EU/NA forums, these are the latest threads from JP General:

FF11コラボで実装してほしい装備 - Equipment I would like to see implemented in the FF11 collaboration - Last response 05-30-2024, 01:27 PM

『レッドオニオンヘルム』のロール制限撤廃もしくはおしゃれ装備版の実装をお願いします！！ - Please remove the role restrictions for "Red Onion Helm" or implement a stylish equipment version! ! - Last Response 05-29-2024, 09:37 AM

スペイン語版を出してくれるようにご協力お願いします！ - Please help us publish a Spanish version! - Last Response 05-29-2024, 09:32 AM

Sooo yeh, nothing on combat or gender locked clothes.

Surely, they won't say they'll fix job design in 9.0 once 8.0 is here.

No, they'll say after much consideration they've decided to leave jobs as they are and keep adding finishers and buttons you can only press after your long cooldowns and call it a day like everything else they "consider" but never change.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i thought people came to xiv instead of wow because that was wows things "play good or leave" its really weird to see people suggesting it here and then pretending like this is what xiv players are about.

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Oh, you've never been on the early Novice Network, where people would come from WoW, ask something that required doing something that is banned here, and then go "oh, this game not for me"

Like the common refrain on MMORPG forums, including this one is "This is not WoW. Do not try to turn it into WoW. If you want WoW, WoW is over there."

Because of bad and toxic behavior that bleeds over between MMO games (not just RPG's) the general consensus is not to hop games. If you like the way a game works, STAY THERE. If you hate how the game works, you're welcome to explain why you think something is bad, but the second you compare it to another MMO as though "it's better", you've lost the argument. "WoW does this better" is not an answer, it's saying the poster came to the Sushi restaurant and tried to order a BigMac and is complaining that there's no BigMac's, rather than go to McDonalds.

That's the problem. People expect certain experiences from certain jobs in the game that they "expect" from another MMO and then demand it work like that other MMO rather than maybe accept the idea that this is a different game. Maybe people LIKE how this game works and don't want it becoming more toxic like the other game.

This game, heavily relies on choreography. Hence the jobs are going to be pretty samey, because you can't have a "Broken" job that is mandatory in all party configurations. The consequences to that is that we basically have 3 healers that are so samey that if you map the same-ish skill on WHM, AST and SCH's hotbars, you can play every fight exactly the same. White Mage may have it's heal bombs, but the fact is, you can literately sit there and do most MSQ content with just Cure 2/Benefic 2, (go ahead, try it with the NPC parties) and ignore the entire rest of the kit. That tells you what's wrong with how healing is designed in this game.

Content isn't designed to require a healer, it's designed for a fixed amount of DPS per phase and then some kind of enrage-like mechanic should wipe the fight. Gear creep prevents this from happening. I would love to see fights where a DPS healing or a tank healing triggers adds or some kind of counter-heal attack to defeat the oCD of the heal.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Nope, tbh most of the complaining seems to come from the EU/NA forums

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Mostly NA because ego and someone else having a slightly higher number.

Anyway, most complaining seems to be in the English forums. Here are some of the newest German threads:

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Shadow is coming! Neues europäisches Datenzentrum

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"Shadow is coming! New European Datacenter"

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Keine deutschsprachigen Youtuber?

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"No German-speaking Youtubers?"

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2tes Tauchboot oder Luftschiff freischalten.

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Unlocking a second submergible or airship."

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Fan Gathering in Potsdam 2024

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Self-Explanatory

Mostly game-related.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Surely, they won't say they'll fix job design in 9.0 once 8.0 is here.

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well they never said they were going to fix job design in 8.0 either so to be fair why would they?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Mostly NA because ego and someone else having a slightly higher number.

Anyway, most complaining seems to be in the English forums. Here are some of the newest German threads:


"Shadow is coming! New European Datacenter"


"No German-speaking Youtubers?"


Unlocking a second submergible or airship."


Self-Explanatory

Mostly game-related.

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Not exactly a surprise, everyone but JP just uses the english subforum here, so all the other subforums are wastelands.