Let's talk about bot housing business

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Originally Posted by Archeron

I didn't say multi-home owning was against Terms of service. Can you read? I accused you of hiding information because I strongly suspect that you're engaging in illicit activity to own all those houses. Also you could argue that buying out entire wards would fall under Nuissance behaviour of the terms of service, especially if you're deliberately depriving people of housing. I'll wait long than you, because I know you're just going to keep whatever "Facts" you have to yourself.

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No one has to engage in illicit activity to be a multi-house owner. It takes only about 350 million gil to buy an entire subdivision. While you can't get it overnight, there are plenty of ways to earn that much gil through the usual ways to make gil without having access to a workshop or buying from RMT.

It's also not what is meant by Nuisance Behavior. But feel free to report multi-house owners for Nuisance Behavior and see what that accomplishes.

Stormpeaks and I are not on good terms. I'm one of those that dislikes multi-house owners for taking advantage of what the system allows while other players struggle to get a house but even I will tell you that Stormpeak's facts are solid while your assumptions are getting drawn from thin air.

Attacking the multi-house owners accomplishes nothing. If you want to see plots more fairly distributed, turn your attention to the dev team. They're the ones who set the rules for the system. If you want to see a bigger change to the system that would ensure every player who wants one house or even multiple houses can get them regardless of what others have, turn your attention to Square Enix. The corporation holds the budget strings and when those strings are tight, the developers can't accomplish much.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No one has to engage in illicit activity to be a multi-house owner. It takes only about 350 million gil to buy an entire subdivision. While you can't get it overnight, there are plenty of ways to earn that much gil through the usual ways to make gil without having access to a workshop or buying from RMT.

It's also not what is meant by Nuisance Behavior. But feel free to report multi-house owners for Nuisance Behavior and see what that accomplishes.

Stormpeaks and I are not on good terms. I'm one of those that dislikes multi-house owners for taking advantage of what the system allows while other players struggle to get a house but even I will tell you that Stormpeak's facts are solid while your assumptions are getting drawn from thin air.

Attacking the multi-house owners accomplishes nothing. If you want to see plots more fairly distributed, turn your attention to the dev team. They're the ones who set the rules for the system. If you want to see a bigger change to the system that would ensure every player who wants one house or even multiple houses can get them regardless of what others have, turn your attention to Square Enix. The corporation holds the budget strings and when those strings are tight, the developers can't accomplish much.

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I don't seem to understand why you think I care about the relations you may or may not have with other people on the forums, because I couldn't give a chocobos arse about the meta drama that goes on here, and I especially do not care who likes or dislikes Stormy, or you, or whoever else fancies themselves a clown in the local general discussion circus.

Nor did I say that it was nuissance behaviour. I said there may potentially be an arguement to be made for it being nuissance behaviour. Reading comprehension must not be something they teach you these days.

For the record, I will continue to point, and make a mockery out of multi-home owners. It's nothing short of selfish to hoard heaps of plots to yourself, and then tell everyone that they should go live in the Goblet.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Oh please, stop acting like every server in the game is Balmung or that this discussion revolves around NA. I'm on EU, Stormy is on EU, this thread is about an EU server. There is not a single server on EU one would have to transfer away from in order to get a house. Not even for a personal house. You are completely clueless if you think 5+ fc houses is even making a dent in the available housing supply.

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I didn't realise that this was the EU forums... Oh wait! It's the English forums. Tough luck, but this discussion extends to all english speaking realms and worlds. I do not care where the origin of the complaint comes from. Also, where did I say that was going to make a dent in the housing supply? Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Yeah you're a troll at this point, I am done responding to you, you talked about depriving people of houses, I proved you otherwise with actual proper evidence that you ignore, that's where our conversation is done.

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If you're done talking to me I suggest you stop making replies to me. You can have my attention when you're willing to discuss the matter like an adult.

Nowhere have I suggested that multi home owning is against ToS. I have only questioned the true intentions behind the people buying out entire wards. Twist my arguement as much as you like, my stance is that multi-home owners are selfish, and generally apathetic to the rest of the XIV community, and this thread does much to prove that point.

Ouch! Why is it so hostile here? Can we all behave and have calm discussions? :)

I really don't like it when people buy out a lot of a ward! It feels really unfair, especially when the new home owners don't decorate their homes at all! I don't like the idea of people selling them for real money! I used to play a lot! But my house was demolished because I quit for a year! Oops. It's been really hard to get one back again, and I even play on Dynamis too!

Quelle surprise, people are hostile and apathetic to the concerns of people who open the interaction with hostility and implications of illegal behavior. Truly, who could see such a thing coming, aside from everyone with a functioning sense of social awareness?

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Originally Posted by DefaultMiqote

Ouch! Why is it so hostile here? Can we all behave and have calm discussions? :)

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I normally find most 'toxic positivity' talk to be an overblown way of whining about not being able to rage on people in public. However...
https://i.imgur.com/b2UZqkt.png
... occasionally, it's a claim that has its merits. Insincerity's not so easy to hide as people like to think it is.. though it only rarely comes with a nametag on it.

Well if it's not against TOS for one person to own 50 houses, attack the reason that they feel the need to own 50 houses and that is submarines. Take away subs from housing, simple. It's what happens when people abuse the system. Give everyone access to subs through their Island, anyway how many of us that aren't FC leaders or their close friends see any of that wealth or get any of those sub only items?

Also don't try to mislead people by saying "350mil is so easy to make" maybe if you've been playing since day 1 and know everything about the market, when to buy, when to sell, what to sell or got in on op money farms like certain leves and such before they were nerfed. But most average players won't make that in a year.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Quelle surprise, people are hostile and apathetic to the concerns of people who open the interaction with hostility and implications of illegal behavior. Truly, who could see such a thing coming, aside from everyone with a functioning sense of social awareness?

I normally find most 'toxic positivity' talk to be an overblown way of whining about not being able to rage on people in public. However...
https://i.imgur.com/b2UZqkt.png
... occasionally, it's a claim that has its merits. Insincerity's not so easy to hide as people like to think it is.. though it only rarely comes with a nametag on it.

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You guys are behaving like a mafia! It's a fitting tag! This entire thread seems very hostile! I don't like the way you talk to people either. It's very degrading! I hope we don't meet ingame! xP

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Originally Posted by DefaultMiqote

You guys are behaving like a mafia! It's a fitting tag! This entire thread seems very hostile! I don't like the way you talk to people either. It's very degrading! I hope we don't meet ingame! xP

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Welcome to the forums, you'll find nothing but whining, complaining, and people arguing in bad faith.

Adding the tag is pretty petty, it's best you stay out of these discussions.

It's not against ToS, but their intentions behind owning multiple houses are definetely suspect. It's only natural they blindly lash out at anything that threatens what they enjoy. But its an obvious move for me to suggest that multi home owning needs action taken against it, and needs to be made against ToS in the future.

It's not a thread that warrants much in the way of kindness.

That said: I own more accounts than houses right now. I am no more "you guys" to them than I am to you, aside from having an understanding of how this kind of operation works.

Ultimately, it's a thread that gets posted seemingly quarterly by people with no interest in truth or things that even roughly resemble the truth, where accusations of RMT and botting are routinely leveled with zero evidence and even less care. It was never going to be a friendly party or even much of a discussion - this point has not just been settled, it has been settled conclusively to death for years, with ample evidence that SE knows precisely what is going on and will only take action when they're good and ready to. There is no real discussion left to be had - just a bunch of axes to grind and grudges to perpetuate.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

It's not a thread that warrants much in the way of kindness.

Ultimately, it's a thread that gets posted seemingly quarterly by people with no interest in truth or things that even roughly resemble the truth, where accusations of RMT and botting are routinely leveled with zero evidence and even less care. It was never going to be a friendly party or even much of a discussion - this point has not just been settled, it has been settled conclusively to death for years, with ample evidence that SE knows precisely what is going on and will only take action when they're good and ready to. There is no real discussion left to be had - just a bunch of axes to grind and grudges to perpetuate.

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Pretty much this tbh, this discussion is going nowhere

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Originally Posted by Sindele

It's not a thread that warrants much in the way of kindness.

That said: I own more accounts than houses right now. I am no more "you guys" to them than I am to you, aside from having an understanding of how this kind of operation works.

Ultimately, it's a thread that gets posted seemingly quarterly by people with no interest in truth or things that even roughly resemble the truth, where accusations of RMT and botting are routinely leveled with zero evidence and even less care. It was never going to be a friendly party or even much of a discussion - this point has not just been settled, it has been settled conclusively to death for years, with ample evidence that SE knows precisely what is going on and will only take action when they're good and ready to. There is no real discussion left to be had - just a bunch of axes to grind and grudges to perpetuate.

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There is ultimately no discussion to be had with either side in this. Multi-home owners are blind to reason, or the concerns of other people on their own servers, actual RMTers don't care either way and they'll continue selling houses on black market websites regardless of anything anyone on the general forums has to say, and Square Enix turns a blind eye to practically all of XIV's problems. In other news the sky is blue.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

There is ultimately no discussion to be had with either side in this. Multi-home owners are blind to reason, or the concerns of other people on their own servers, actual RMTers don't care either way and they'll continue selling houses on black market websites regardless of anything anyone on the general forums has to say, and Square Enix turns a blind eye to practically all of XIV's problems. In other news the sky is blue.

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Literally WHO is buying a house on a 200-pop server? LMAO

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Originally Posted by Koros

Literally WHO is buying a house on a 200-pop server? LMAO

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Clearly the same server that hosts all of your forums alt accounts.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

It's ok he's just mad because he couldnt even get a shiro large on a dead world

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Mist Ward 20 P35 I own a large plot you donut. Why would I want to own a second large plot? Pretty sad attempt at trying to get me as mad as you are. Pay it a visit since you are clearly my number one fan. We openly welcome all visitors to our estate.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Clearly the same server that hosts all of your forums alt accounts.

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man i really live in you guys heads rent free that you come up with all these crazy theories bout me

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Originally Posted by MrJadeOfStars

Well if it's not against TOS for one person to own 50 houses, attack the reason that they feel the need to own 50 houses and that is submarines. Take away subs from housing, simple. It's what happens when people abuse the system. Give everyone access to subs through their Island, anyway how many of us that aren't FC leaders or their close friends see any of that wealth or get any of those sub only items?

Also don't try to mislead people by saying "350mil is so easy to make" maybe if you've been playing since day 1 and know everything about the market, when to buy, when to sell, what to sell or got in on op money farms like certain leves and such before they were nerfed. But most average players won't make that in a year.

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Most average players don't even have the ability to play the game at a respectable level.

I wouldn't expect them to strain the 5 braincells they use on earning Gil.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Most average players don't even have the ability to play the game at a respectable level.

I wouldn't expect them to strain the 5 braincells they use on earning Gil.

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Why do you say they have 5 braincells? Most people seem perfectly fine to me!

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Originally Posted by MrJadeOfStars

Well if it's not against TOS for one person to own 50 houses, attack the reason that they feel the need to own 50 houses and that is submarines. Take away subs from housing, simple. It's what happens when people abuse the system. Give everyone access to subs through their Island, anyway how many of us that aren't FC leaders or their close friends see any of that wealth or get any of those sub only items?

Also don't try to mislead people by saying "350mil is so easy to make" maybe if you've been playing since day 1 and know everything about the market, when to buy, when to sell, what to sell or got in on op money farms like certain leves and such before they were nerfed. But most average players won't make that in a year.

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Making 350m gil in a few weeks could not be easier. Get your crafters and gatherers maxed out by literally copying and pasting every macro and following the guides spamming you through Ishgard Restoration, wait for a raid tier and follow the guide to craft the crafted gearset for week 1 by once again copying the macros. Then sell it on the market board and undercut it once every few hours.

Like everything is figured out for you. Imagine thinking it's that hard? You don't have to make your own macros. You don't have to compile your own material lists (teamcraft does it for you). You don't have to check market trends (universalis does it for you). You truly have to do nothing other than be a literal robot and follow the guide holding your hands step by step.

If this is hard I better prep a massive kindergarten ready just for you.

I thought it takes a lot of money to pay for all of your crafters to level to max following those guides!

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Originally Posted by DefaultMiqote

I thought it takes a lot of money to pay for all of your crafters to level to max following those guides!

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Can be, depending how you go about it.

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Originally Posted by DefaultMiqote

I thought it takes a lot of money to pay for all of your crafters to level to max following those guides!

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You should have more than enough just by doing MSQ/playing the game, and the payoff more than makes up for the investment. It's really not that hard to get into.

I just binge watched Dawson's Creek to level my crafter and gather classes. ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

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Originally Posted by DefaultMiqote

I thought it takes a lot of money to pay for all of your crafters to level to max following those guides!

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Nope.

You actually make Gil, really. But then it depends on which guide you follow and how much reading you do or don't do - If you just copy/paste macros, then.... But take Ishgard Restoration - Even if you were to buy the materials outright, by the time you have even hit 51-52~ via Ishgard, you'll have made plenty of Skybuilders' Scrip which can either be used directly into making you Gil. Whether that is through dyes or Brass/Steel Spoils - You can get these and trade them in for Heavensward-related materials which still sell for a pretty penny, you can also use these if you wish to self-fund (without spending Gil) on levelling between 51-60~ - You'll make a bountiful amount of Crafters' scrip which you can trade in for materia and then sell those on the market, or you can use them yourself when you hit 90.

Literally, it's all self-sufficient with a minimal amount of spending Gil. The only way you'll spend Gil is by ignoring half of the systems that the game throws at you. I would say the people that parrot "Crafting is so expensive to level OMG" - Are probably the ones that spend for the sake of spending without considering cheaper ways of getting materials - Or how they can get them even through what they have at the moment e.g., through scrips.

Everyone in here suggesting they lower the gil you get from submarines and here I am just finally getting my subs operational to start raking in cash and you guys want to take that away? Stop witch hunting people. There's plenty of houses available if you want in on the gil making.

Edit: btw I own three houses in Balmung. You dummies ain't taking that away from me.

Feels good to switch to other games and not seeing or being subject to this crappy housing from FF

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Originally Posted by Koros

yes. actual rmters make 300m gil per week per char and its definitely not through housing rofl

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Don't they just abuse bunnies in Eureka or did that ship sail already?

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Originally Posted by MrJadeOfStars

Well if it's not against TOS for one person to own 50 houses, attack the reason that they feel the need to own 50 houses and that is submarines. Take away subs from housing, simple. It's what happens when people abuse the system. Give everyone access to subs through their Island, anyway how many of us that aren't FC leaders or their close friends see any of that wealth or get any of those sub only items?

Also don't try to mislead people by saying "350mil is so easy to make" maybe if you've been playing since day 1 and know everything about the market, when to buy, when to sell, what to sell or got in on op money farms like certain leves and such before they were nerfed. But most average players won't make that in a year.

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You can literally make 50-100m a week just through market flipping for an hour a day and 5 minutes of research on Google/YouTube. There's even a website that does it all for you and shows you the proper things to buy and sell so you don't even need to use brain cells.

If you want to make gil, start now and go find what I'm talking about. C: I have faith that with a smidge of effort you'll be able to.

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

Oh the streamer with private videos for subs only that abuses housing, yeah. I wonder where that 1,5 bill gill a month goes to.. ehrm ehrm..

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Pulling stuff out of your ass. I subbed to him and the private videos get released publicly a short time after. There is no secret in his videos, it is all common knowledge. Especially if you look at the submersible thread on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Akibaws

Pulling stuff out of your ass. I subbed to him and the private videos get released publicly a short time after. There is no secret in his videos, it is all common knowledge. Especially if you look at the submersible thread on this forum.

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Good, you subbed, so you are subjective, I don't need to know your opinion xd

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

Good, you subbed, so you are subjective, I don't need to know your opinion xd

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It's factual. All videos are available for anyone later. There is no black market super secret house abuse. It's very simple. Make an FC, buy a house, do submersibles.

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Originally Posted by Akibaws

Pulling stuff out of your ass. I subbed to him and the private videos get released publicly a short time after. There is no secret in his videos, it is all common knowledge. Especially if you look at the submersible thread on this forum.

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Can I ask for context here? I don't really know Ashe since he's not my prime source of crafting information.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Could be one of many things imo: subs, rmt, market flipping, gambling. A friend of mine made 500m in a night just by death rolling xD

Just because someone owns multiple houses doesn't always equal RMT tho, if we're gonna be real. There are ways to make disgusting amounts just using ways the game offers. 8 chars on your server can net you like 8m-ish with levequests per 100 leves for example.

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This is true. Many games have ways to make loads of coins just by using what the game offers. If a player has the time and patience, I’m sure there are many legal ways in FF14 to make gil from the “norm”.

Also I’ve noticed some posts seem to be missing as my previous post has moved back a page. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

This is true. Many games have ways to make loads of coins just by using what the game offers. If a player has the time and patience, I’m sure there are many legal ways in FF14 to make gil from the “norm”.

Also I’ve noticed some posts seem to be missing as my previous post has moved back a page. Interesting.

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Seriously though. Someone who I have a lot of respect for has built up a savings of over 2B gil just by taking advantage of patch day selling and furniture selling when houses are getting bought up rapidly. They build up a supply of items ahead of time, distribute them to different characters on different DCs and profit. It is completely legal and this is all done with one service account. All it takes it effort and planning for that type of endeavor, but market flipping is a way for people to make a good amount if they don't have the time to be able to put into all that prep.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Can I ask for context here? I don't really know Ashe since he's not my prime source of crafting information.

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He's a youtuber/twitch streamer who makes videos on crafting and gil making. Since Squenix have decided to keep dumbing down crafting the main income now is from Submersibles. As I mentioned above it's not like he has one of those books from 2007 for WoW that you had to pay for to get hidden gold farming techniques. Everything he does is already known on this forum as well as multiple other youtubers.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Everyone in here suggesting they lower the gil you get from submarines and here I am just finally getting my subs operational to start raking in cash and you guys want to take that away? Stop witch hunting people. There's plenty of houses available if you want in on the gil making.

Edit: btw I own three houses in Balmung. You dummies ain't taking that away from me.

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The goal isn't to take money away from other players. The goal is to make more plots available to players that want a house to create a home for their character on their current home worlds. That means removing the financial benefits from house ownership and putting them elsewhere in the game.

Moving the workshop from house ownership to Island Sanctuary or Grand Company HQ (similar to Squadron Barracks) would benefit those only interested in running a sub farm. That's millions of gil they no longer have to spend to purchase a house and can instead use to buy other things.

Same with those only interested in Gardening. If there was another location where gardening is possible, they wouldn't have to pay millions to get into it.

Less demand for houses makes it easier to get one. The easier it is to get one, the less likely a player is to be motivated by FOMO to buy when they aren't currently interest in a house but feel they will be later and won't be able to get one. The more owners who have their houses because they want to decorate and create a home for their characters, the better the ward environment becomes as the plots get decorated (theoretically, Namazu Effigy and Paissa say "hi") .

Player traffic in the wards to make them feel like actual neighborhoods is a problem that I don't think will ever be solved unless they mix instanced housing in with the ward houses. There isn't enough reason for a large number of players to be in a specific ward/subdivision at the same time short of one of the more popular RP venues being open, and even then it doesn't do you any good if the venue is on the far side of the ward from your house.

But still, better to be in a ward filled with plots with visible signs of use instead of in stale wards that are mostly undecorated because most of the plots were purchased by those running sub farms.

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Originally Posted by Akibaws

He's a youtuber/twitch streamer who makes videos on crafting and gil making. Since Squenix have decided to keep dumbing down crafting the main income now is from Submersibles. As I mentioned above it's not like he has one of those books from 2007 for WoW that you had to pay for to get hidden gold farming techniques. Everything he does is already known on this forum as well as multiple other youtubers.

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Not to mention links to all this information being available in the Submersibles Discord, which is listed in the Submersible Information Thread in the Items, Synthesis and Gathering subforum.

this was a problem long before their Lottery "fix" in addition to the Wards split, and will likely continue to be one long into the future as they don't seem particularly eager to actually police anything.

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Originally Posted by Chikatsu

this was a problem long before their Lottery "fix" in addition to the Wards split, and will likely continue to be one long into the future as they don't seem particularly eager to actually police anything.

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No need to police what isn't against "the law".

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Originally Posted by Akibaws

Pulling stuff out of your ass. I subbed to him and the private videos get released publicly a short time after. There is no secret in his videos, it is all common knowledge. Especially if you look at the submersible thread on this forum.

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mmmh you should asking him then why he needs to "borrow" free available information and selling them as his own creation for a few measly subs on his patreon :D

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Originally Posted by Yodada

mmmh you should asking him then why he needs to "borrow" free available information and selling them as his own creation for a few measly subs on his patreon :D

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Probably how he presents it, or to help support him?

Because much of the community would much rather slavishly follow a blueprint given to them than actually do the footwork of acquiring information.

For a laugh, wait until pentameld recommendations come up for the crafting sets in 7.0, and watch how prices for lesser materia march exactly in line with the suggestions, even when it results in absolutely deranged behavior like paying 20x the price for a grade 2 materia instead of a grade 3/4.

Why not ensure some profit off of that (and ensure the people who you profit from then also profit in turn off the latecomers)?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The goal isn't to take money away from other players. The goal is to make more plots available to players that want a house to create a home for their character on their current home worlds. That means removing the financial benefits from house ownership and putting them elsewhere in the game.

Moving the workshop from house ownership to Island Sanctuary or Grand Company HQ (similar to Squadron Barracks) would benefit those only interested in running a sub farm. That's millions of gil they no longer have to spend to purchase a house and can instead use to buy other things.

Same with those only interested in Gardening. If there was another location where gardening is possible, they wouldn't have to pay millions to get into it.

Less demand for houses makes it easier to get one. The easier it is to get one, the less likely a player is to be motivated by FOMO to buy when they aren't currently interest in a house but feel they will be later and won't be able to get one. The more owners who have their houses because they want to decorate and create a home for their characters, the better the ward environment becomes as the plots get decorated (theoretically, Namazu Effigy and Paissa say "hi") .

But still, better to be in a ward filled with plots with visible signs of use instead of in stale wards that are mostly undecorated because most of the plots were purchased by those running sub farms.


Not to mention links to all this information being available in the Submersibles Discord, which is listed in the Submersible Information Thread in the Items, Synthesis and Gathering subforum.

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You understand that putting submarines and their income in something such as the island would have consequences right ? Everything would increase, because everyone would have access to such an income of gil, with as many alts as you want, people will just make alts for the sake of it and will rack in gil, resulting in dramatic price increases in absolutely everything in the MB, also "sub farms" wouldnt go anywhere, they already have their plots and are well established, a lot of people keep the houses not only for the gil, but also to have them, I would know, the 2nd being my main reason for doing housing in the first place, decorating is fun.

Also another thing that kind of strike me

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But still, better to be in a ward filled with plots with visible signs of use instead of in stale wards that are mostly undecorated because most of the plots were purchased by those running sub farms.

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Have you even been in a personal ward lately ? There are no FC's around, and most plots are empty wastelands with nothing on them, or an item or two, it's not any better than submariners, at least some of them decorate them.

I honestly just want to nuke wards and introduce full instanced housing. Nip the botting problem in the bud. Submarines are going to drop in value anyways since they said they were making submarines personal and not just for FCs.

I got an Ishgardian house first lottery on BALMUNG the biggest RP/Social server in the game and I have not seen a single neighbor once in the nearly two years I have had the house. All the houses that surround me are empty, not even gardens. I am right by the marketboard and never have seen anyone there. My FC is in the Mist right by the MB as well. In the 6 years we've had the house, we've only seen the same two people.

It's all pretty sad.