Manderville Relic Criticism

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Also glad to see people finally acknowledge that mainsub absolutely refuses to acknowledge any criticism and will either just insult you or deflect the criticism

I had someone on there who asked me for an example of a failed job system in 14, I answered with stormblood lilies, immediately I got downvoted to hell and everyone was replying with some combination of “blood for the blood lily” or “I just hate WHM”, when I tried to explain I meant stormblood lilies only (I’m indifferent to ShB lilies) everyone basically just said they were exactly the same and I was just a hater, I then got muted

---

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...deeyechloe.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koros

When you think the forums are dumb, just go look at Reddit it's actually filled with NPCs. It's become a thing in the game too sadly, people making the same unfunny Reddit joke for the 738742883th time. It almost feels like playing with Trusts but they added ChatGPT to it.

---

I legit feel like the mainsub has fallen off a cliff, almost every post has become some effort bait about “oh my god I just saw x thing this is the best game ever” or some played out joke/saying like “blood for the blood lily” and then all the comments are just functional yes men

Even shitpostxiv is dying because mainsub isn’t feeding them any remotely interesting content anymore and as much as I regularly doompost on discussion even I get tired of how depressing it is sometimes

at this point the main sub has been nothing but reposted commission art and "hi I've played for 5 minutes and this is the best game EVER" posts since ShB, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if- as others have already said, it didn't completely stomp out any sign of discontent. does anyone remember when the 6.2 megathread got mcthanos'd because too many people had pointed out how utterly lacking it was? it just fascinates me that you're more likely to find productive discussion of the game on the shitpost sub of all places.

say what you want about the forums, it sure as hell is a mess, but at least people aren't silenced for their opinion, be it positive or negative. unless you're mass reported ig

i don't see why you couldn't have both a eureka/bozja zone and an alternative with tomestone for those who don't want to bother or that get bored of said zone. Why does it have to be one or the other ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syln

i don't see why you couldn't have both a eureka/bozja zone and an alternative with tomestone for those who don't want to bother or that get bored of said zone. Why does it have to be one or the other ?

---

It doesn't have to be either/or. SE can set up the relic grind anyway they want.

But if one method is much more efficient at completing the stage of the relic, players are generally going to pick that method even if they don't like it. And then complain that the content they liked wasn't rewarding enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...deeyechloe.jpg

---

Trying to figure out if this image is going “what the f are you talking about” or “what the f were those people on mainsub talking about”

Relics just end up being glam by the next expansion anyway so I’m ok with ‘em being this easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Trying to figure out if this image is going “what the f are you talking about” or “what the f were those people on mainsub talking about”

---

Mainsub goons thinking Stormblood lilies were the same as Shadowbringer Lilies.

I'm 110 percent certain they consume paint chips and huff jenkem in their spare time. Absolute lobotomite behavior.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F10yI1-XgAIWuog.jpg

Oh, that's a pretty cool minigun. Looks like I'm ready to whip it out and blast up a jungle trying to find the Predator.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F10ySapXwAA1H8Q.jpg

......Aaaand the magic is gone. Or rather, I wish it was gone. Stupid particle effects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

But if one method is much more efficient at completing the stage of the relic, players are generally going to pick that method even if they don't like it. And then complain that the content they liked wasn't rewarding enough.

---

If people actually did what was efficient, they would have been in Bozja doing their SHB relics.

Instead, they opted to torture themselves by spamming Crystal Tower because unqualified people on Reddit managed to convince a large portion of the playerbase that it was the best way to do the relic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erza_Scarlets

They need to step up the relics glows and make them dyable. So you can dye not only the weapon, but change the color of the glow. So you can customize the look bit more on relics. Cause another red glow on rdm swords great and all, but would be nice to have options on the glows.

---

Yeah I'm not digging getting the short end of the stick on my main classes and getting the puke yellow green color. I would rather change the glow color than the weapon itself if I have to pick one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

If people actually did what was efficient, they would have been in Bozja doing their SHB relics.

Instead, they opted to torture themselves by spamming Crystal Tower because unqualified people on Reddit managed to convince a large portion of the playerbase that it was the best way to do the relic.

---

I never got that far into the relic so I wasn't paying attention to CT versus Bozja farming.

I do remember people complaining about HW FATE and Antitower spamming for the first couple of stages because the drop rates for those particular memories in Bozja were hideously poor at the time. Players were begging SE to give them a decent reason to farm the memories in Bozja. Sounds like SE finally addressed it in the later stages.

Yet in a way you're supporting what I said. They were following what others had told them was the most best way to do it, even if that method didn't turn out to be the best way. Most players don't try to figure it out on their own. They wait for others to announce a best way then stick to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

I never got that far into the relic

---

"Please allow me to make sweeping judgments on things I have no knowledge about in order to defend the game."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheNight

"Please allow me to make sweeping judgments on things I have no knowledge about in order to defend the game."

---

Why am I not the least bit surprised the jojoya hasn’t even completed a ShB relic but still feels qualified to defend the game like they are on square’s payroll

Players who are praising Squenix for making relics braindead easy to obtain seems to miss the key meaning of relic weapons.

They are supposed to be a signature weapon that shows player's dedication to the game.

Not just "another weapon with glow effect" like augmented Extreme weapons or Pandemonium savage (the latter ones looking dope, by the way).

All time and effort player invested into grinding for specific relic is then immortilized in a shiny weapon of choice that one can carry with honor.

When I see players wielding Zeta weapon, for example, I think: "Good Lord, they survived through multiple grinds and the book stage, now that's dedication, buddy!"

The same way about Bozjan, Eurekan, and, to a lesser extent, Anima weapons. I realize that players actually went out of their way to explore this content, plan their way through and get their reward.

What we have now? I see a players (well, 99% of them) with Manderville weapon and the only thought I get is:
"Ugh, they know how to use Duty Finder, eh?..."

Also, the simplification of ways to obtain relics really hurts Endwalker content longevity as a whole:

- V&C dungeons: Looks great, good job SE. Too bad that they are dead content 2-3 weaks after release when players have cleared them.

- Island Sanctuary: Pleasant relaxing place that I would definetly enjoy more knowing that all that spreadsheet management for extra cowries were bringing me closer to getting relic materials in some way.

- Eureka Orthos: Also would be looking much more lively (and future-proof) if running this Deep Dungeon was required for relic materials.

- Alliance raids: As much of a joke EW ARs are, I wouldn't mind them popping more often over daily Crystal Tower quota.

Endwalker has gaping holes of "stuff to do" between patches, and SE refuses to try and close them by making their freshly released content have more player retention.

And, on personal note, running roulettes daily starts to become unbearable, thanks to a whole another can of worms - cue job homogenization, healers being boring, cookie-clicker level difficulty dungeons, Item level sync or, to be precise, lack thereof completely trivializng old content, and so on and so forth. Lack of new exploratory zone really starts to show...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

Endwalker has gaping holes of "stuff to do" between patches, and SE refuses to try and close them by making their freshly released content have more player retention.

---

As many have pointed out, by the time we give them feedback in the current patch, they are already 2-3 patches ahead of where the live game is. They cannot, realistically, close those gaps because the content is done and awaiting implementation in the live game while they are working on the next patch.

Quote:

---

Lack of new exploratory zone really starts to show...

---

Island Sanctuary is the exploratory zone, they've said this, the game classifies it as one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remember_The_Name

Players who are praising Squenix for making relics braindead easy to obtain seems to miss the key meaning of relic weapons.

They are supposed to be a signature weapon that shows player's dedication to the game.

Not just "another weapon with glow effect" like augmented Extreme weapons or Pandemonium savage (the latter ones looking dope, by the way).

All time and effort player invested into grinding for specific relic is then immortilized in a shiny weapon of choice that one can carry with honor.

When I see players wielding Zeta weapon, for example, I think: "Good Lord, they survived through multiple grinds and the book stage, now that's dedication, buddy!"

The same way about Bozjan, Eurekan, and, to a lesser extent, Anima weapons. I realize that players actually went out of their way to explore this content, plan their way through and get their reward.

What we have now? I see a players (well, 99% of them) with Manderville weapon and the only thought I get is:
"Ugh, they know how to use Duty Finder, eh?..."

Also, the simplification of ways to obtain relics really hurts Endwalker content longevity as a whole:

- V&C dungeons: Looks great, good job SE. Too bad that they are dead content 2-3 weaks after release when players have cleared them.

- Island Sanctuary: Pleasant relaxing place that I would definetly enjoy more knowing that all that spreadsheet management for extra cowries were bringing me closer to getting relic materials in some way.

- Eureka Orthos: Also would be looking much more lively (and future-proof) if running this Deep Dungeon was required for relic materials.

- Alliance raids: As much of a joke EW ARs are, I wouldn't mind them popping more often over daily Crystal Tower quota.

Endwalker has gaping holes of "stuff to do" between patches, and SE refuses to try and close them by making their freshly released content have more player retention.

And, on personal note, running roulettes daily starts to become unbearable, thanks to a whole another can of worms - cue job homogenization, healers being boring, cookie-clicker level difficulty dungeons, Item level sync or, to be precise, lack thereof completely trivializng old content, and so on and so forth. Lack of new exploratory zone really starts to show...

---

Just on your last point it shows that at least 90% of the collective playerbase runs CT every single day but has absolutely no idea what glasya labalos has platforms on the outer parts of his arena or why you are actually dragging orbs of lightning to the pillars on skylla

It’s insane to me that the devs can’t properly balance ILVL sync when the dungeons/raids are already designed around the level they were released on so they can just be synced to either that level or that level +10

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Why am I not the least bit surprised the jojoya hasn’t even completed a ShB relic but still feels qualified to defend the game like they are on square’s payroll

---

its very typical tbh, some of them cant even finish the msq and have like 4k posts on the forums, wild

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koros

its very typical tbh, some of them cant even finish the msq and have like 4k posts on the forums, wild

---

Knowing that solo instances have a “very easy” mode haunts me daily, the base mode is very easy, what does very easy mode even do, the boss just walks up to you and keels over or something

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F10ySapXwAA1H8Q.jpg

......Aaaand the magic is gone. Or rather, I wish it was gone. Stupid particle effects.

---

I'm really hoping that the 'Matte Replicas' are brought back from Bozja and given for these weapons and the Amazing ones. (And also for any other relic that has no non-glow version too)

I feel like what they’re doing with the Manderville weapons might just be SE's attempt at future proofing a relic. Maybe it’s just a Materia thing, but Bozja and Eureka are very much dead here. This isn’t to say it’s a good attempt, but it’s the best I can come up with for why it’s the way it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monokhrom

I feel like what they’re doing with the Manderville weapons might just be SE's attempt at future proofing a relic. Maybe it’s just a Materia thing, but Bozja and Eureka are very much dead here. This isn’t to say it’s a good attempt, but it’s the best I can come up with for why it’s the way it is.

---

I honestly gave up on materia after giving it my best for almost as long as the data centre has existed, I moved back to jenova today, I’ve kinda come to realise that materia’s population may have been sustainable if they managed to hold onto the launch EW crowds but as it stands if 7.0 doesn’t reach the highs of EW then materia is going to be constantly starved of people, you can’t expect vets to stay when you never get any above 60 content and you have to PF the eden normal raids in prime time

As for the relic I doubt square even acknowledges materia exists anymore, it feels like it was basically a publicity stunt for them on the back of EW; I certainly don’t think it affected the relic design, especially since while materia is dead for field content it’s not hard to do anima and zeta on materia since they nerfed them into fate and poetic grinds

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Knowing that solo instances have a “very easy” mode haunts me daily, the base mode is very easy, what does very easy mode even do, the boss just walks up to you and keels over or something

---

to my knowledge, it allows you to literally afk in the Hien instance at the end of SB, as the other NPCs whittle the enemy's HP to zero, you only have to interact with the game when it comes to the enforced 'stack with ally to save them' bit

actually idk if this is even on very easy mode, might be normal for all I know

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monokhrom

I feel like what they’re doing with the Manderville weapons might just be SE's attempt at future proofing a relic. Maybe it’s just a Materia thing, but Bozja and Eureka are very much dead here. This isn’t to say it’s a good attempt, but it’s the best I can come up with for why it’s the way it is.

---

Their 'solution' will probably be to just say 'oh if you can't get groups for stuff, use cross-DC travel' when it comes out and lets us go between regions (if Materia's not already connected to JP)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

to my knowledge, it allows you to literally afk in the Hien instance at the end of SB, as the other NPCs whittle the enemy's HP to zero, you only have to interact with the game when it comes to the enforced 'stack with ally to save them' bit



Their 'solution' will probably be to just say 'oh if you can't get groups for stuff, use cross-DC travel' when it comes out and lets us go between regions (if Materia's not already connected to JP)

---

Materia is stuck either way there, NA is probably too far (unless they can do cross DC between all 4) and JP doesn’t want them because the reason they released materia was to get English speaking people off JP anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I honestly gave up on materia after giving it my best for almost as long as the data centre has existed, I moved back to jenova today, I’ve kinda come to realise that materia’s population may have been sustainable if they managed to hold onto the launch EW crowds but as it stands if 7.0 doesn’t reach the highs of EW then materia is going to be constantly starved of people, you can’t expect vets to stay when you never get any above 60 content and you have to PF the eden normal raids in prime time

As for the relic I doubt square even acknowledges materia exists anymore, it feels like it was basically a publicity stunt for them on the back of EW; I certainly don’t think it affected the relic design, especially since while materia is dead for field content it’s not hard to do anima and zeta on materia since they nerfed them into fate and poetic grinds

---

That was my concern back then in Shadowbringers, i knew no one would run Delubrum anymore in the future, and even if you try to get those relic weapons now, you look forard to 85 runs of Delubrum or spend an eternity in Potd.
Bozja was still well visitet on Twintania last patch, i farmed all my missing stuff to get the Ikril mount and there were always enough people for it, but Delubrum is deader than dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

That was my concern back then in Shadowbringers, i knew no one would run Delubrum anymore in the future, and even if you try to get those relic weapons now, you look forard to 85 runs of Delubrum or spend an eternity in Potd.
Bozja was still well visitet on Twintania last patch, i farmed all my missing stuff to get the Ikril mount and there were always enough people for it, but Delubrum is deader than dead.

---

They really should've thrown it into Alliance Raid Roulette. At least then, there would still be possible to complete it within a reasonable timeframe but I guess Lost Actions kind of makes it difficult to balance around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Det40

I feel the reason they're doing it this way is because a lot of people jump around to many different classes, so they decided to make it easier to grind for all of them rather than just one.

I'm not the biggest fan of it either though. But I get it.

---

The solution to this is to streamline the process of getting Manderville weapons after the first one you complete, not gimp the initial quest.

I figure they are just taking a break from large content concerning the relic. Dont expect much from this relic. I figure this will go down in history as if you want a cheap and quick relic get the EW relic.

Having redone some one HW, SB and ShB relic for a more or less exhaustive take on relics (that I never posted), I'd take the current system over some steps we had in the past. Especially the ShB ones, that, if they worked when released, are an horror to do right now, because everything has to be done synched, and with the content being less alive, it takes more time to do ShB relics now that it took during ShB. HW (and ARR, iirc) are enjoyable to do nowaday because a lot of the steps can be synched.

Though I wish they had given the relics a proper story instead artifially sticking them to hildibrand quest.

As a whole I've been disappointed with the Manderville relics. The only positive for me has been the appearance; as a BLM, I've liked the appearances of the Manderville BLM relics. I do not like how easy it's been to acquire these relics, however; even the regular tome weapons have been harder to acquire than these relics. It adds to my frustration to see these great BLM weapon appearances be wasted on such bland relics that can't even be bothered to have proper names.

I know I'm gonna be in the minority on this, but I enjoyed doing ARR relic books for acquiring the animus step; when my lala was still in ARR I went out of my way to grind all the way through the nexus step before moving on to HW doing everything synced, and I had fun doing the ARR relic grind (I couldn't complete the Zodiac brave step until the start of post-SB MSQ because of gil issues, but once I did I got my Lilith Rod Zeta the next day). I also had fun levelling through Eureka and grinding out the SB relic.

On the other hand, I have had no fun at all doing the Manderville relics; despite how these look, I feel like I've been given a free handout. At least the HW relic felt like a bit of a time investment, even though I didn't feel as satisfied finishing it like I did ARR and SB. I'm also still working on the SHB relic, so I can't give much of an opinion until I finish it, but I've liked progressing through Bozja so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

They really should've thrown it into Alliance Raid Roulette. At least then, there would still be possible to complete it within a reasonable timeframe but I guess Lost Actions kind of makes it difficult to balance around.

---

I honestly think they should throw a reworked version of all the Bozja raids into the roulette and duty finder, they were by far the best thing about that zone, I'd even go as far as to call them the best "alliance" raids we currently have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Except you can’t do whatever you want
why can’t I do it with POTD

---

Except, you can?
You can farm Causalities in all 3 Deep Dungeons and PvP modes if you enter as a level 90 job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

......Aaaand the magic is gone. Or rather, I wish it was gone. Stupid particle effects.

---

Yep.
"We won't change relic progession" my ass, this is completely different from SB and ShB.
Even if we ignore the superfluous step in the beginning of ShB, ShB was
1: Weapon
2: Weapon but glowy
3: New Weapon
4: New Weapon that's glowy also you can adjust your stats now
5: Newer Weapon that's glowy but if you don't like this, here's a vendor who sells replicas of this that don't glow!

For the first two steps, we were progressing at the same rate as ShB, but with completely different requirements.
We have now completely skipped stage 3 for stage 4, and we don't even have the Matte Replica.
Additionally, let's just look at item levels for a sec.

ShB started at IL485. This was the same IL as the EX4 weapon at the time. EW started at IL615, and that is also EX4.
ShB then went up to IL500 - 5 IL above the EX5 weapon! EW moved up to IL630, which is also 5 IL above EX5. (Or equal to the 3rd tier augmented tome.)
ShB next goes up to... IL510. In order to ascend it to IL515 (EX6), you need to do the second part of the questline added in x.45.
EW goes up to IL645 straightaway.

I can think of several reasons to make the weapon start at 640. Maybe Godbert tells Gerolt that actually we needed another chunk of Achondrite to power up the weapon.
Maybe Godbert says that the true extent of the weapon's power must be brought out through battle. Maybe Gilgamesh breaks into Radz-At-Han and interrupts the forging process so now you need a second item to properly reforge it into the weapon that Godbert was actually talking about.

And there's also the fact that we don't even have the main selling point for relics every expansion has had before - Fully Adjustable stats.
ARR let you put anything on everything.
In HW and ShB, you chose what you got, stat point by stat point.
In SB, you repeatedly rolled the RNG both to get stat types, and the amount of them. Personally I don't like this one, especially since you don't see anyone use a Eureka Relic anywhere, or a Physeos Relic outside of Eureka itself.
In Endwalker... You get asked if you want to change the 2 substats the weapon's maxed on, and the 2 materia slots become magical and are now carried over with you even if you're IL synced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

I honestly think they should throw a reworked version of all the Bozja raids into the roulette and duty finder, they were by far the best thing about that zone, I'd even go as far as to call them the best "alliance" raids we currently have.

---

I honestly wouldn't mind that at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

I honestly think they should throw a reworked version of all the Bozja raids into the roulette and duty finder, they were by far the best thing about that zone, I'd even go as far as to call them the best "alliance" raids we currently have.

---

That would have been their only saving grace. They are struggling to collect enough players to run and SE does an amazingly terrible job to make them popular again:

In 6.0 EW release, they, for some reason, added 10 minutes hard cap on DRN queue and the echo buff. And you know, that again, in reality, it ended up as nothing more then a buffer time for your PF party to visit bathroom and grab a drink. New unsuspecting players register for a duty, only to get their rear handed back to them by the first boss. The only way is still good ol' Party Finder.

In 6.1 patch they "increased" EXP reward from CLL and Dal, but, in reality, you still can amass the same amount of EXP by simply running skirms with no risk. The reward buff did absolutely nothing. Thankfully, over time, players trickled back into Bozja and you have some chance of having a group during peak online hours.

While I have fun running Party Finder, I understand that it should be a temporary solution until the ultimate fix of the system. When "story mode" duty that is also bottlenecking the whole relic weapon progression is locked behind PF, this is bad design.

This is so disappointing that SE shows next to no care about Bozja. We have Challenge Log, Duty Roulette and other ways to make Duties popular, but so far... no movement whatsoever. Current weekly missions for Bozja raids are a joke.

I don’t mind the new relic system. I like the fact that tomestones accumulate rather fast as I do a mix of roulette (just a few per day/every few days), hunts, deep dungeons and pvp on whatever job/role I feel like playing. I get a few more tomes on other activities such as the V&C this past week or if I go for other current content. I can play whatever content I want, I can do various activities in between instances, help friends with whatever they need and I am able to get a good weapon on different jobs without having to live in the game. Relic weapons will become BiS only at the end of the EW expansion anyway, not long before the release of 7.0 so might as well have time to gather and use them before they become good for glamour only.

I much prefer the new system to being stuck in a single instanced area for hours like Eureka or Bozja killing the same stuff over and over or be limited to a few specific dungeons/trials or farming old irrelevant fates on a specific job regardless of efficiency. At least Bozja had CLL and Delubrum rather early on to break the monotony but I found Eureka dreadful (plus it discouraged teaming up with friends who were not the same level). I only got one relic in Bozja as I was bored and felt a bit burned out after doing it once and ended up doing the Eureka story only without finishing the relic itself as I stopped bothering with the mind numbing grind at some point. HW wasn’t too bad but required very specific duties and we had to play a specific job in them. As for the ARR relic, it was designed for people with way too much time on their hands and was downright masochist (my life is not boring enough for me to want to finish this unhealthy BS).

I am doing my first and last resistance weapon. The timeworn artifact is cancer. I don't mid current system either, But it should be tied to the variant dungeons in someway. Maybe you should do the variant dungeon at least once for an item alongside with tomestone item, Or just make it a choice. Like you can do variant dungeon Or grind tomestone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eastwall

I am doing my first and last resistance weapon. The timeworn artifact is cancer. I don't mid current system either, But it should be tied to the variant dungeons in someway. Maybe you should do the variant dungeon at least once for an item alongside with tomestone item, Or just make it a choice. Like you can do variant dungeon Or grind tomestone.

---

2-3 weeks, Variant Dungeon completely died. It's directly a problem with futureproofing, and honestly? Tying Relic directly to this would've been the play, especially since there's 12 Variants. 12 items, just complete Variant Dungeon 12 times. Easy, right? On top of that it doesn't take forever due to actions. Add this with Tomestones(which are farmable in Variant Dungeon as well) and you already are future-proofing the content to NOT die after a couple weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

2-3 weeks, Variant Dungeon completely died. […] Tying Relic directly to this would've been the play, especially since there's 12 Variants. 12 items, just complete Variant Dungeon 12 times. Easy, right?

---

Except variant dungeons are at least easily soloable on any job for pretty much everyone and there is no waiting. I find that soloing them is the best way to do them as you don't have anyone interfering with what you need. If someone wants to run them a year from now, they would be able to easily do so and requiring a one time clear of the 12 paths would have been ok though I prefer how relics work atm. Someone who wants to do the variant dungeons can do so anyway.

However, I am quite happy that we don't have to redo the 12 paths for each weapon. Once was enough and while the place is pretty, it is also monotonous (repetitive bosses and mechanics) and adds along the paths offer nothing: except two small groups of special adds on a path variation, they have no mechanics other than stay out of their very slow and predictable cone, line or circle aoe and there's walls everywhere to slow you down. I wouldn't redo the grind, no matter the reward (I can't imagine doing that ninja boss 12 times on each job or 228 times total for all jobs lol). At most I'll go again with friends for a few paths if they ask me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toutatis

Except variant dungeons are at least easily soloable on any job for pretty much everyone and there is no waiting. I find that soloing them is the best way to do them as you don't have anyone interfering with what you need. If someone wants to run them a year from now, they would be able to easily do so and requiring a one time clear of the 12 paths would have been ok.

However, I am quite happy that we don't have to redo the 12 paths for each weapon. Once was enough and while the place is pretty, it is also monotonous (repetitive bosses and mechanics) and adds along the paths offer nothing: except two small groups of special adds on a path variation, they have no mechanics other than stay out of their very slow and predictable cone, line or circle aoe and there's walls everywhere to slow you down. I wouldn't redo the grind, no matter the reward (I can't imagine doing that ninja boss 12 times on each job lol). At most I'll go again with friends for a few paths if they ask me.

---

Yea it will probably be exceptionally easy to convince a friend or two to accompany a player doing a variant dungeon for the first time. Wouldnt say quite the same for delubrum.