Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

I'd settle with them giving more classes a small self absorb shield ability so that skilled players can safely bait samurai into wasting their LB for nothing. It's hilarious watching them standing in place after using zantetsuken, confused as to why you're not dead, while you spam recuperate back up to full health.

As it is, it's easier just to ignore a samurai until chiten drops, they blow their LB, or you have enough players to chain CC them into the ground before they can do anything. It's such a ridiculous way for a class to be designed for pvp, especially with how the sluggish server tick rate is in FF, and how easy it is to accidently clip them with AOE. Which is even sillier in frontlines because you can't actually see their limit gauge, so you have to assume a samurai has their LB ready in most cases.

Thankfully with 6.3 they at least fixed some of the issues where non-damaging abilities would incorrectly trigger chiten.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DesdemonaVae

Yes

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And it's not the enemies fault for using their Aoes on anybody BUT the Sam, but clipping the Sam with said AoE.

I can see Chiten if the Sam is isolated and all, even in some scuffles with multiple people.

But god forbid there being the whole alliance of the sam attached to said sam (or even both, sometimes all 3 teams are fighting) and you, in your "stupidity" use your kit, clip the Sam and die!
Shouldn't have used that Bio+deployment, me, how silly of me.

Like, i didnt get clipped by a Sam in a WHILE but that doesn't mean it never happens still.
I've seen other people clip them and die tho.

And I dunno how the concept is so hard to understand for some?

It's still not "woah we hit the sam in obvious chiten and died! GEE!!"
It is: "I used my AoEs, I have no other option than to use my AoE since it's most of my kit and died to a sam that was somewhere clipped with one of my AoEs"

It's literally impossible for me to know if a Chiten-Sam is 15 yalms around any of the people i targed with biolysis+deployment at ANY given moment in ANY circumstance or can anticipate them running into it somehow.
It's just not possible man, also serverticks

if you remove the one hit kill ability, may as well remove SAM form pvp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

if you remove the one hit kill ability, may as well remove SAM form pvp.

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Solution: Give SAM a gun

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avenheit

if you remove the one hit kill ability, may as well remove SAM form pvp.

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All 1 hit kill abilities should be removed, people cry about sam while ninja lb is way worse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

if you remove the one hit kill ability, may as well remove SAM form pvp.

---

This just illustrates the fact that the skill ceiling is too high for most. They should rework the pvp side of SAM. Any job where players are literally just waiting for their LB is a broken mess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

if you remove the one hit kill ability, may as well remove SAM form pvp.

---

After my RDM nerfs i dont see why sam should keep that lol

Running up to people and pressing chiten in their face still works in 2023. Either don't hit the samurai or play a job with a shield.

Not really.

SAM insta deletes you at full HP if you poke him by accident, Nin actually requires to hit you a lot and if you are a Melee class at least in Frontline its imposible to stay at half hp with the DR boost.

SAM LB its impossible to escape, Displacement, Elusive Jump, name any escape tool you can't get away from it because 25 yards cast range.

Yeah no.

>Be MCH
>Put the turret
>Random Sam walks in with Chiten up
>Can't do anything because I can't turn it off
>Sam one shot me across the map
>"lol its your fault don't use any of your aoe skills in pvp get gud "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Yeah no.

>Be MCH
>Put the turret
>Random Sam walks in with Chiten up
>Can't do anything because I can't turn it off
>Sam one shot me across the map
>"lol its your fault don't use any of your aoe skills in pvp get gud "

---

you can survive it but it requires you to have a personal shield active (one that increases your maximum HP)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnRam

Yeah no.

>Be MCH
>Put the turret
>Random Sam walks in with Chiten up
>Can't do anything because I can't turn it off
>Sam one shot me across the map
>"lol its your fault don't use any of your aoe skills in pvp get gud "

---

The turret gives you a shield if you stand in it. If you've got Air Anchor available, it's a 3 second bind or stun from 25y. Let's also go over what every job can do about it:

WHM: Aquaveil, Miracle of Nature, Afflatus Purgation
SCH: Adloquium (with or without Expedient), Summon Seraph
AST: Double-casted Aspected Benefic
SGE: Kardia + Eukrasian Dosis, Pneuma, Mesotes (might need to test that one)
PLD: Holy Sheltron, Phalanx (might need to test that one)
WAR: Bloodwhetting
DRK: The Blackest Night, Eventide (pretty sure this works as I've seen DRKs pop Eventide and then survive Seiton Tenchu)
GNB: Jugular Rip/Abdomen Tear/Eye Gouge/Hypervelocity (Junction Tank)
MNK: Thunderclap (targeting enemy), Meteodrive
DRG: Sky High, Sky Shatter (barrier)
NIN: Huton
SAM: Ogi Namikiri, Kaeshi: Namikiri (when striking two or more targets)
RPR: Arcane Crest, Tenebrae Lemurum
BRD: Repelling Shot (to bind and create distance), Silent Nocturne
MCH: Air Anchor (bind or stun), Aether Mortar (stand in it for shield)
DNC: En Avant (simply create a 40y gap), Contradance
BLM: Burst, Night Wing
SMN: Radiant Aegis
RDM: White Shift melee combo

Every job in the game has some way of preventing the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo, with or without using their own limit break. With the exception of Phalanx and Mesotes, every limit break mentioned has a shorter charge time than Zantetsuken. Yes, some of these are CC effects, and may be countered by use of Purify or Meikyo Shisui, but that can be enough: the hardest part of pulling off the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo can be getting out alive. SAM has no movement options except for Hissatsu: Soten into an enemy's face (bring back ground target Soten), and needs to get the combo off without having to use Purify/Meikyo for the best chance of getting out alive.

Zantetsuken's charge time is 120 seconds. After the two minute mark, start expecting to see Chiten use to set up the combo and remind yourself of your job's tools.

I am so tired of people who are bad at PvP wanting to nerf all the fun jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naizakane

The turret gives you a shield if you stand in it. If you've got Air Anchor available, it's a 3 second bind or stun from 25y. Let's also go over what every job can do about it:

WHM: Aquaveil, Miracle of Nature, Afflatus Purgation
SCH: Adloquium (with or without Expedient), Summon Seraph
AST: Double-casted Aspected Benefic
SGE: Kardia + Eukrasian Dosis, Pneuma, Mesotes (might need to test that one)
PLD: Holy Sheltron, Phalanx (might need to test that one)
WAR: Bloodwhetting
DRK: The Blackest Night, Eventide (pretty sure this works as I've seen DRKs pop Eventide and then survive Seiton Tenchu)
GNB: Jugular Rip/Abdomen Tear/Eye Gouge/Hypervelocity (Junction Tank)
MNK: Thunderclap (targeting enemy), Meteodrive
DRG: Sky High, Sky Shatter (barrier)
NIN: Huton
SAM: Ogi Namikiri, Kaeshi: Namikiri (when striking two or more targets)
RPR: Arcane Crest, Tenebrae Lemurum
BRD: Repelling Shot (to bind and create distance), Silent Nocturne
MCH: Air Anchor (bind or stun), Aether Mortar (stand in it for shield)
DNC: En Avant (simply create a 40y gap), Contradance
BLM: Burst, Night Wing
SMN: Radiant Aegis
RDM: White Shift melee combo

Every job in the game has some way of preventing the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo, with or without using their own limit break. With the exception of Phalanx and Mesotes, every limit break mentioned has a shorter charge time than Zantetsuken. Yes, some of these are CC effects, and may be countered by use of Purify or Meikyo Shisui, but that can be enough: the hardest part of pulling off the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo can be getting out alive. SAM has no movement options except for Hissatsu: Soten into an enemy's face (bring back ground target Soten), and needs to get the combo off without having to use Purify/Meikyo for the best chance of getting out alive.

Zantetsuken's charge time is 120 seconds. After the two minute mark, start expecting to see Chiten use to set up the combo and remind yourself of your job's tools.

---

Sadly in Frontlines you don't rely on the tool that you need on the exact moment.
The only realistic counter play could be RA and Huton, because you can actually save them when Kuzushi appears in your debuff bar, everything else can be baited or probably you already used it before even engaging the SAM'S players, you are not fighting just one in FL you actually fight 3-4 or even more.

Bishop Autoturret best use its over a small group of people blocking nor forcing them to fight with 10% damage taken (Like in Onsal bridges).

Once again, Sam 1vs1 isn't a issue but when your AOE magically poked one of them totally unintentionally and they just come and take away your BH5 in 1 second isn't fair nor balanced, imagine if Seiton Tenchu could works at 100% of Enemy HP.
Plus you have to add the horrible netcode and lag, guard not even working properly, glitched animations, skills not working on you even if you smash the input etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

I am so tired of people who are bad at PvP wanting to nerf all the fun jobs.

---

Fun has nothing to do with balance specially in PVP, that's why MCH Chainsaw got nerfed because it wasn't fun to anyone except the MCH that could 1 shot 1-2 players with a standard skill.

Baddie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

but when your AOE magically poked one of them totally unintentionally and they just come and take away your BH5 in 1 second isn't fair nor balanced

---

If you're catching stray kuzushi debuffs and getting hit with zantetsuken for it that's on you for blindly firing off aoes. Enemy names are replaced with the job they're currently playing, it can't be that hard to see <Samurai> and take your fingers off your aoes

Even when I do see it, the fact it OHKO'd me through Knights Resolve and a protect bubble is pretty dumb lol. I saw the buff happen, pop and protect, saw his castbar cause I targeted him, womp. dead from full. Normally, it is what it is. But that stupid LB really does need to be looked at, and its a shame that its been more than half a year already with it still being like this. Maybe we should all just record our games and keep bothering SE on twitter of it's BS until they start addressing that some of these classes need some tweaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naizakane

If you're catching stray kuzushi debuffs and getting hit with zantetsuken for it that's on you for blindly firing off aoes.

---

SAM main moment

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowIQ

SAM main moment

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I know it's just *so hard* to watch enemy party frames. Poor baby.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I know it's just *so hard* to watch enemy party frames. Poor baby.

---

The ones that do not exist in Frontline, which is what this thread is about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LowIQ

SAM main moment

---

Ill-omened creature, seek skill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naizakane

WHM: Aquaveil, Miracle of Nature, Afflatus Purgation
SCH: Adloquium (with or without Expedient), Summon Seraph
AST: Double-casted Aspected Benefic
SGE: Kardia + Eukrasian Dosis, Pneuma, Mesotes (might need to test that one)
PLD: Holy Sheltron, Phalanx (might need to test that one)
WAR: Bloodwhetting
DRK: The Blackest Night, Eventide (pretty sure this works as I've seen DRKs pop Eventide and then survive Seiton Tenchu)
GNB: Jugular Rip/Abdomen Tear/Eye Gouge/Hypervelocity (Junction Tank)
MNK: Thunderclap (targeting enemy), Meteodrive
DRG: Sky High, Sky Shatter (barrier)
NIN: Huton
SAM: Ogi Namikiri, Kaeshi: Namikiri (when striking two or more targets)
RPR: Arcane Crest, Tenebrae Lemurum
BRD: Repelling Shot (to bind and create distance), Silent Nocturne
MCH: Air Anchor (bind or stun), Aether Mortar (stand in it for shield)
DNC: En Avant (simply create a 40y gap), Contradance
BLM: Burst, Night Wing
SMN: Radiant Aegis
RDM: White Shift melee combo

Every job in the game has some way of preventing the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo, with or without using their own limit break. With the exception of Phalanx and Mesotes, every limit break mentioned has a shorter charge time than Zantetsuken. Yes, some of these are CC effects, and may be countered by use of Purify or Meikyo Shisui, but that can be enough: the hardest part of pulling off the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo can be getting out alive. SAM has no movement options except for Hissatsu: Soten into an enemy's face (bring back ground target Soten), and needs to get the combo off without having to use Purify/Meikyo for the best chance of getting out alive.

Zantetsuken's charge time is 120 seconds. After the two minute mark, start expecting to see Chiten use to set up the combo and remind yourself of your job's tools.

---

I think this does a good job of illustrating why Zantetsuken is so bad.

It emphasizes both having to pay attention to what your opponent is doing... and requires a split second response that usually will fail due to server ping. In addition, most responses require the defender to be at near full health and not have said ability on cooldown.

If you aren't at full health, saving your shields SPECIFICALLY to fend off the instant kills, and watching for Chiten with a hair trigger... then you are not responding to SAM in pvp appropriately.

That's not fun... and it doesn't make for enjoyable combat for 18 other classes that all have to watch for one class's ability.

I mean, all of this would be pointless complaining if, say, the MNK LB did 70k dmg if he hit the same opponent 7 times, or if DRG killed all targets standing within 3m's of each other, etc. But those are all silly ideas... because no one wants to play PvP where a LB instant kills opponents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DesdemonaVae

I think this does a good job of illustrating why Zantetsuken is so bad.

---

Zantetsuken was added to the game last April. If you're still complaining about it, it's not the button that's bad.

You do realise that sam has more abilities besides LB and even if you us a shield, he just hits one other ability and you dead right?

There is 0 reason why aoe skills should trigger chiten, especially bad like the formentioned MCH turret, you literally are preventing a job from ever usisng one of their abilities the entire game beecause you can abuse it to oneshot them ( or twoshot since you do have more then just LB to damage people).

I'm of the mind that it would be fine if it weren't some insta-kill BS. I could reason it being 70% gone without guarding and 30 - 40% with guarding on, and buffing their skills to compensate, but no job should have an instant kill from 100%, unless it's the most painfully obvious 'hey don't be in this spot, at this given moment, on this particular day' kind of obvious.

samurai instant win button is cancer lol

Meanwhile sams aren’t even looked at until they have their LB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naizakane

The turret gives you a shield if you stand in it. If you've got Air Anchor available, it's a 3 second bind or stun from 25y. Let's also go over what every job can do about it:

WHM: Aquaveil, Miracle of Nature, Afflatus Purgation
SCH: Adloquium (with or without Expedient), Summon Seraph
AST: Double-casted Aspected Benefic
SGE: Kardia + Eukrasian Dosis, Pneuma, Mesotes (might need to test that one)
PLD: Holy Sheltron, Phalanx (might need to test that one)
WAR: Bloodwhetting
DRK: The Blackest Night, Eventide (pretty sure this works as I've seen DRKs pop Eventide and then survive Seiton Tenchu)
GNB: Jugular Rip/Abdomen Tear/Eye Gouge/Hypervelocity (Junction Tank)
MNK: Thunderclap (targeting enemy), Meteodrive
DRG: Sky High, Sky Shatter (barrier)
NIN: Huton
SAM: Ogi Namikiri, Kaeshi: Namikiri (when striking two or more targets)
RPR: Arcane Crest, Tenebrae Lemurum
BRD: Repelling Shot (to bind and create distance), Silent Nocturne
MCH: Air Anchor (bind or stun), Aether Mortar (stand in it for shield)
DNC: En Avant (simply create a 40y gap), Contradance
BLM: Burst, Night Wing
SMN: Radiant Aegis
RDM: White Shift melee combo

Every job in the game has some way of preventing the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo, with or without using their own limit break. With the exception of Phalanx and Mesotes, every limit break mentioned has a shorter charge time than Zantetsuken. Yes, some of these are CC effects, and may be countered by use of Purify or Meikyo Shisui, but that can be enough: the hardest part of pulling off the Chiten > Zantetsuken combo can be getting out alive. SAM has no movement options except for Hissatsu: Soten into an enemy's face (bring back ground target Soten), and needs to get the combo off without having to use Purify/Meikyo for the best chance of getting out alive.

Zantetsuken's charge time is 120 seconds. After the two minute mark, start expecting to see Chiten use to set up the combo and remind yourself of your job's tools.

---

We have a winner folks. I was waiting for it tbh.

The good old perfect play argument, that doesn't even bother to consider that balance =/= effort. Good joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

We have a winner folks. I was waiting for it tbh.

The good old perfect play argument, that doesn't even bother to consider that balance =/= effort. Good joke.

---

im so tired of seeing it! the 'git gud' argument does not WORK in this instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naizakane

Zantetsuken was added to the game last April. If you're still complaining about it, it's not the button that's bad.

---

what kind of supplements do you take to get your brain so smooth?

Sounds like a 1. skill issue or 2. hardware issue

There are visual effects and animations. Here are some tips to help you:
1. You need to pay more attention to your debuff statuses, if you see the debuff, you can run out of range or LoS (Line of Sight) so that the SAM can't target you. Usually the SAM will target last target attacking him, so once you see the debuff run away.
2. If you're unlucky and get caught near the target that he's attacking (and you have the debuff): then start practicing not stacking on top of your teammates; be mindful of your positioning.
3. FL isn't just about spamming spells on random targets. GOOD players will focus priority targets like players with battle high. If you're spamming a lot of aoe without securing kills, you're probably not as efficient as you think you are. And if you're not spamming aoe, you shouldn't be getting hit with SAM debuff (common sense - don't hit the SAM with the blue buff). Pay more attention to who you are attacking and if the player has certain buffs up.
4. If you are melee and going deep into enemy lines - you need to know when to engage and when not to. That's something that you learn from experience. If you're so deep and you have no idea what's going on in the engagement, you probably shouldn't be that deep. Be on the lookout for SAM, if you see one in the enemy group during the engagement, try to avoid using AOEs.

Of course if you have a subpar computer, then obviously that would make the above tips basically void.

Practice playing SAM, you'll see that while it's easy to get kills with lb, it's not as easy as you think to wipe a group. To know how other classes play and to become a better player, I'd say practice each Job a little to see their strengths and weaknesses. SAM LB can be negated by WHM poly, it can be nerfed by shields. Shields = anything that gives you a shield (more than your max hp). Since SAM's LB only does your max HP in dmg, you will live as long as you have full hp + shield. Also, SAM lb has a long charge time and chainsaw isn't even an LB, so you can't compare the two. Just some food for thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nubrication

Sounds like a 1. skill issue or 2. hardware issue

There are visual effects and animations. Here are some tips to help you:
1. You need to pay more attention to your debuff statuses, if you see the debuff, you can run out of range or LoS (Line of Sight) so that the SAM can't target you. Usually the SAM will target last target attacking him, so once you see the debuff run away.
2. If you're unlucky and get caught near the target that he's attacking (and you have the debuff): then start practicing not stacking on top of your teammates; be mindful of your positioning.
3. FL isn't just about spamming spells on random targets. GOOD players will focus priority targets like players with battle high. If you're spamming a lot of aoe without securing kills, you're probably not as efficient as you think you are. And if you're not spamming aoe, you shouldn't be getting hit with SAM debuff (common sense - don't hit the SAM with the blue buff). Pay more attention to who you are attacking and if the player has certain buffs up.
4. If you are melee and going deep into enemy lines - you need to know when to engage and when not to. That's something that you learn from experience. If you're so deep and you have no idea what's going on in the engagement, you probably shouldn't be that deep. Be on the lookout for SAM, if you see one in the enemy group during the engagement, try to avoid using AOEs.

Of course if you have a subpar computer, then obviously that would make the above tips basically void.

Practice playing SAM, you'll see that while it's easy to get kills with lb, it's not as easy as you think to wipe a group. To know how other classes play and to become a better player, I'd say practice each Job a little to see their strengths and weaknesses. SAM LB can be negated by WHM poly, it can be nerfed by shields. Shields = anything that gives you a shield (more than your max hp). Since SAM's LB only does your max HP in dmg, you will live as long as you have full hp + shield. Also, SAM lb has a long charge time and chainsaw isn't even an LB, so you can't compare the two. Just some food for thought.

---

Read the whole thread again and come back, because we already explained in 14 pages that Sam LB/Chiten is out of the line in FL
You are not saying anything new, but trying in some way to create perfect escenarios in a 24vs24vs24 mode.

Every tip you wrote down comes from someone who played 2 FL matches in his entire FFXIV life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McPanzer

what kind of supplements do you take to get your brain so smooth?

---

He likely takes laxatives, considering the amount of shit he's able to produce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnRam

Read the whole thread again and come back, because we already explained in 14 pages that Sam LB/Chiten is out of the line in FL
You are not saying anything new, but trying in some way to create perfect escenarios in a 24vs24vs24 mode.

Every tip you wrote down comes from someone who played 2 FL matches in his entire FFXIV life.

---

It sounds like you can really use the tips I listed above.

As for the tips coming from someone who played "2 FL matches." I've played 1.0 when it was all leves to level up, I've played FL since it's inception with secure and back when it was all WHM holy spam, I've played the arena style where if you died - you stayed dead, I've played feast and played against some of the top players at the time. So instead of being toxic, maybe you should take the advice of people trying to help. I have no problem playing against SAM in FL and I play every class.

If you're not willing to take constructive criticism or feedback - you won't get better. Cheers.

I haven't read the thread but I do agree it's annoying when you get clipped with it.

When I see them I watch for the LB debuff (I can't for the life of me remember it's name!)

I play BRD so I SILENCE then wait then backflip into a bind.

It'd the same with DRKs pull atm, I backflip from then then silence.

PvP is all about counterplay IMO. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nubrication

Sounds like a 1. skill issue or 2. hardware issue

There are visual effects and animations. Here are some tips to help you:
1. You need to pay more attention to your debuff statuses, if you see the debuff, you can run out of range or LoS (Line of Sight) so that the SAM can't target you. Usually the SAM will target last target attacking him, so once you see the debuff run away.
2. If you're unlucky and get caught near the target that he's attacking (and you have the debuff): then start practicing not stacking on top of your teammates; be mindful of your positioning.
3. FL isn't just about spamming spells on random targets. GOOD players will focus priority targets like players with battle high. If you're spamming a lot of aoe without securing kills, you're probably not as efficient as you think you are. And if you're not spamming aoe, you shouldn't be getting hit with SAM debuff (common sense - don't hit the SAM with the blue buff). Pay more attention to who you are attacking and if the player has certain buffs up.
4. If you are melee and going deep into enemy lines - you need to know when to engage and when not to. That's something that you learn from experience. If you're so deep and you have no idea what's going on in the engagement, you probably shouldn't be that deep. Be on the lookout for SAM, if you see one in the enemy group during the engagement, try to avoid using AOEs.

Of course if you have a subpar computer, then obviously that would make the above tips basically void.

Practice playing SAM, you'll see that while it's easy to get kills with lb, it's not as easy as you think to wipe a group. To know how other classes play and to become a better player, I'd say practice each Job a little to see their strengths and weaknesses. SAM LB can be negated by WHM poly, it can be nerfed by shields. Shields = anything that gives you a shield (more than your max hp). Since SAM's LB only does your max HP in dmg, you will live as long as you have full hp + shield. Also, SAM lb has a long charge time and chainsaw isn't even an LB, so you can't compare the two. Just some food for thought.

---

you're the 1% of people that even try to defend the samurai LB lol

Several jobs are literally incapable of being useful to their team without using their AoE skills.
I don't think it's a good design choice when the correct reaction to seeing a certain job is:

Refrain from using half your kit.
Don't try to fight back if they attack you.
Save all your mitigation specifically for this one job.
Be at full hp always or the one above won't help anyway.

I've said before that the LBisn't OP, but it's definitely cheap.
It has counterplay, yes.
You can do the above.
You can imp it.
You can rpr/dnc LB it.
You can silence/stun it if they don't have purify buff up.
It can be stopped, and it can be dealt with and played around.

But it's a stupid gimmick that punishes someone with instant death for not stepping on eggshells 100% of the time you're remotely close to them. It's an LB with an average power level that has a dumb and unfun premise, simple as, imo.

I'd put it on the level of pld/drk LB.
"Great, gotta wait for 10 sec while they're basically untouchable."

"Great, got insta-killed because a SAM ran into my pre-placed mch turret AoE."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nubrication

It sounds like you can really use the tips I listed above.

As for the tips coming from someone who played "2 FL matches." I've played 1.0 when it was all leves to level up, I've played FL since it's inception with secure and back when it was all WHM holy spam, I've played the arena style where if you died - you stayed dead, I've played feast and played against some of the top players at the time. So instead of being toxic, maybe you should take the advice of people trying to help. I have no problem playing against SAM in FL and I play every class.

If you're not willing to take constructive criticism or feedback - you won't get better. Cheers.

---

you played 1.0...did you shill for shit game design then too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnRam

Read the whole thread again and come back, because we already explained in 14 pages that Sam LB/Chiten is out of the line in FL
You are not saying anything new, but trying in some way to create perfect escenarios in a 24vs24vs24 mode.
Every tip you wrote down comes from someone who played 2 FL matches in his entire FFXIV life.

---

I read entire 16 pages and played more than 20k matches and still don't think SAM is an issue.
Yes, SAM is pathetic this expansion in PvP because majority of people heavily rely on LB as their only source of core damage but counter is there.
If Bard and Red Mage is not silence the moment SAM used Chiten to buy your team mate's enough time for Kuzushi effect to run out, blame on those players.
All 16 pages are just useless rant of people complains about group mechanic and want an easy way out.
As a Monk myself, i will not reserve my Meteodrive for my personal kill only, if I need to use it to cancel Kuzushi effect and I will
Put a focus target on Sam and frozen him with Meteodrive duration is enough to kill him with current NA's Horde Stampede meta
You have problem with Sam is becuase of player's attitude, they cares too much on their KD ratio on scorebord.
This is not an issue with job deisgn

We just have different ideas of "shit game design." I have no issues dealing with SAM lb (in all pvp modes) and neither do most of the people in high level Crystal. In high level crystal games, most of the time SAM lb kills 1 person because 1. people don't clump up and 2. people have more awareness. SAM lb *usually* only catches people that are not paying attention. The only people that are complaining about SAM lb can't even get to crystal, so there's that. I get it, 80% of the people in FL just want to mindlessly kill things. The difference between me and the people complaining is that I'm 100% against mindless pvp, having something to keep you on your toes makes it more fun (for me atleast).

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

We just have different ideas of "shit game design." I have no issues dealing with SAM lb (in all pvp modes) and neither do most of the people in high level Crystal. In high level crystal games, most of the time SAM lb kills 1 person because 1. people don't clump up and 2. people have more awareness. SAM lb *usually* only catches people that are not paying attention. The only people that are complaining about SAM lb can't even get to crystal, so there's that. I get it, 80% of the people in FL just want to mindlessly kill things. The difference between me and the people complaining is that I'm 100% against mindless pvp, having something to keep you on your toes makes it more fun (for me atleast).

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The problem, that you are not acknowledging (i hope i wrote this right xD), is that some jobs have a design HUGE disavantage against this gimmick (as stated countless times in this forum).
In frontline i play main ninja for example and I too have no issue in dealing with Sams. But if i change to mch for example i find that i literally CANT basic attack em outside of my turret placement, cause MY MAIN ATTACK has a cast time >_>
So i try to be more clear as possible in picture the scenario:
-I am a MCH and i have not the turret up, i can't see if Sam has LB up (cause you cant see LBs in frontline)
He does not have chiten up BUT I CANT ATTACK HIM with my basic attack cause it have a cast time and if he pops chiten WHILE i am casting i'll get the debuff of death.
This can be said with ALL jobs that: don't have a shield, have a shield but already used it, don't have a teleport and cant run away. Or jobs that (as already said but you ignored) in frontline HAVE to use aoes to be at somewhat use.


To summarize, in low scale skirmishes, or really big scale skirmishes (where there is literally zerg), for most jobs you: dont have to use half your kit, or save you shield (if you have one) just for when you get the debuff of death.
Sure, in CC you are 5vs5 and it is easyer to keep track of everything, but you can't, in good faith, say that it is balanced in frontline, cause, as stated multiple times, some jobs can deal with them with less effort, others are at too much disavantage against them.

As Kansene said: "But it's a stupid gimmick that punishes someone with instant death for not stepping on eggshells 100% of the time you're remotely close to them. It's an LB with an average power level that has a dumb and unfun premise, simple as, imo."

Edit: To make ppl laugh, i'll be honest and tell my main strategy against Sams. Since i have big latency issues, you know what i do most of the time with SAMs in FL?
I dont attack em xD
If for example we are in Borderland, and both on a base of my team, i'll just stay there and heal myself defending the base. You can't imagine how many times i have gotten killed by the server screwing me up (cause i swear on my mother life) the chiten and debuff didnt even appear but i got oneshotted nonetheless..
I'm too old to deal with this shit.