FFXIV Has the Population to Support an ELO system for Duty Finder / Party Finder

Why is it always a very mediocre blue parser with a handful of total kills on only the first couple bosses that make these threads? It doesn’t ever seem to be an Orange parser with every boss on farm. Hmmm. Interesting isn’t it?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Why do you think roulettes have a reward above and beyond the normal?

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The reward everyone gets? Regardless if they put a modicum of effort in or not?

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Originally Posted by Azuri

The reward everyone gets? Regardless if they put a modicum of effort in or not?

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I don't think you're playing the right game for you at this point. I don't mean that negatively. You just don't seem to really understand that the game is designed a certain way and the devs are on record in saying that they have no plans to change that. So you can either accept that or move on.

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

Why is it always a very mediocre blue parser with a handful of total kills on only the first couple bosses that make these threads? It doesn’t ever seem to be an Orange parser with every boss on farm. Hmmm. Interesting isn’t it?

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Would it matter though? I think only the idea matters and not the person suggesting it.

I think there are a lot of points against the idea that implementing it seems like an overall bad idea. I don't think we need to attack someone for making that suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

The reward everyone gets? Regardless if they put a modicum of effort in or not?

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The EXTRA reward you get for subjecting yourself to filling RNG parties instead of building and running your own PF. Yeah that.

Instances all have their own rewards linked to them, XP and Tomes. The roulette reward is ON TOP OF THAT because of what it is. Asking people not to run roulette if they don't agree to the terms of the roulette, I.E help whatever randoms complete an instance, isn't a huge ask. You don't like the terms, don't sign up for the benefits. You are not entitled to roulette rewards.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I don't think you're playing the right game for you at this point. I don't mean that negatively. You just don't seem to really understand that the game is designed a certain way and the devs are on record in saying that they have no plans to change that. So you can either accept that or move on.

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Ah, GCBTW. "If you don't want to play the officially sanctioned way just piss off."

In case you haven't noticed, my first post did indeed acknowledge that this is a deliberate desing decision and OP's idea really doesn't fit in this vision.

It matters because they aren’t gonna get the results they want when they suddenly realize they aren’t as good as they think they are and get matched with the people they thought they were getting away from. Then they will be crying about the system they just asked for. I’ve seen this kind of post in every other mmorpg with a dungeon finder. It is people who usually don’t realize they aren’t as awesome as they think. You rarely see the actual top performers asking for stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Ah, GCBTW. "If you don't want to play the officially sanctioned way just piss off."

In case you haven't noticed, my first post did indeed acknowledge that this is a deliberate desing decision and OP's idea really doesn't fit in this vision.

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It was more of a suggestion than a demand, but sure. We'll go with that if it makes you feel better.

That honestly sounds absolutely dreadful. I'm a competent player. But I enjoy the variability in who I group with. It keeps me on my toes when I have to adjust for a party that isn't optimal. Or push myself with a party that is optimal. That sort of adjustment is optimal enjoyment for me. I don't want to be put in a box.

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

It matters because they aren’t gonna get the results they want when they suddenly realize they aren’t as good as they think they are and get matched with the people they thought they were getting away from. Then they will be crying about the system they just asked for. I’ve seen this kind of post in every other mmorpg with a dungeon finder. It is people who usually don’t realize they aren’t as awesome as they think. You rarely see the actual top performers asking for stuff like this.

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It doesn't matter, and to be honest I fully would expect to be placed in a middle tier. Which is fine by me if I get to play with people of similar skill level.

As for the parses, way to jump to conclusions on someone who's static hasn't started running yet and hasn't even attempted fight 3 yet because of time constraints.

I'm a casual who plays about 1-2 hours a day on average and still is pulling a blue without crafted pentamelds and started a week late on the tier.

I'm aiming for a purple parse next week and maybe a gold next week, it's called gradually improving.

At some point people are just going to have to accept that FFXIV is not a "hardcore" MMO by nature and never will be. There is harder content for the (extremely small, whether certain voices like admitting to this or not) minority that want it, and that's enough. Trying to appeal to the smallest demographic (which is what ELO would do) is a surefire way of losing money, not to mention just a crappy thing to do in general. The attitudes displayed by some in this thread is an excellent example of "GCBTW", but not in the way those who constantly spew it think.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Ah, GCBTW. "If you don't want to play the officially sanctioned way just piss off."

In case you haven't noticed, my first post did indeed acknowledge that this is a deliberate desing decision and OP's idea really doesn't fit in this vision.

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Oh, please. Telling someone (in as bland a way as possible) that they should seek out something they'll actually enjoy rather than, you know, saying the game they came to should completely change to suit them is ludicrous. You're not talking QoL or other (valid) criticisms here; you want a complete shift in design philosophy, regardless of your acknowledgement (toddlers? really?). You've been nothing but abrasive and dismissive regarding the valid arguments given as to why ELO here would be a terrible idea and are (hate to say it) a perfect example of the "toxic elitist."

I've done the "hard core" thing in other, older MMOs prior to making this my main MMO at the tail end of HW, have never stepped foot in Exs or Sav when current, yet still push my buttons as needed while minimizing gaining vul stacks. Do I screw up at times? Absolutely, and anyone claiming they never do is full of it. The older I get the less I care about executing a burst window flawlessly and more about spending my time doing something I find enjoyable rather than treating it as a job. If this makes me one of the "toddlers" in your rant because a run took 3 minutes longer, so be it.

While I can get annoyed sometimes during a run depending on this or that, I ultimately don't mind if things don't go perfectly as long as people are legit trying. I've had some dumpster fire runs in roulette that have stuck in my memory because of how entertaining they were, and I imagine many have experienced the same. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

I actually very much like the idea and in my ideal world we would have a system like this, but unfortunately it's just flawed and unrealistic in many ways so it's never going to be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Thi

Nowhere did I even say I was elite anywhere. Just wanting better skill matchups for parties.

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by the way, is this NOT from your original post?

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Originally Posted by Thi

After some time, the player base is sorted out and Elitists and Toxic Casuals will never have to interact with each other again.

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I can say with a fair degree of confidence you do not lump yourself in with the "Toxic Casuals"

so, yeah, I think you said you were elite....

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

by the way, is this NOT from your original post?



I can say with a fair degree of confidence you do not lump yourself in with the "Toxic Casuals"

so, yeah, I think you said you were elite....

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I lump myself in the middle tier, nice try though.

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Originally Posted by Thi

It doesn't matter, and to be honest I fully would expect to be placed in a middle tier. Which is fine by me if I get to play with people of similar skill level.

As for the parses, way to jump to conclusions on someone who's static hasn't started running yet and hasn't even attempted fight 3 yet because of time constraints.

I'm a casual who plays about 1-2 hours a day on average and still is pulling a blue without crafted pentamelds and started a week late on the tier.

I'm aiming for a purple parse next week and maybe a gold next week, it's called gradually improving.

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Shouldn’t you be more concerned with improving in content that matters rather than worrying about the quality of random player you get in a 20 minute faceroll duty? Matched stuff isn’t exactly cutting edge content in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

Shouldn’t you be more concerned with improving in content that matters rather than worrying about the quality of random player you get in a 20 minute faceroll duty?

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Originally Posted by Thi

I'm aiming for a purple parse next week and maybe a gold next week, it's called gradually improving.

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Someone can't read I guess?

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Originally Posted by Thi

FFXIV Has the Population to Support an ELO system for Duty Finder / Party Finder

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This is not the way.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

This is not the way.

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According to them: "This is the way."

... Whether you intended it or not, I've got "The Mandalorian" on the brain still, so...

There is already friction between JP OCE and NA OCE on how to do Alliance raids, or interpret raid macros.

But your idea reads like Raider IO with chinese social credit score.

I don't support this idea.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

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Ah, of course. The "but I play for fun, it's not a job" argument. Newsflash - I also play for fun. My "fun" is not your "fun" though. And that's ok, we can find different things fun. I don't deny you your fun. But for some reason it's ok to dismiss mine completely.

Also, I have never demanded anything to be changed. You seem to be intent on ignoring the fact that I'm fine accepting the game for what it is. I even stated that such system goes against XIV design philosophy. Regardless if I agree with this philosophy or not (and I do not, as you have probably guessed). In the end, we are here to share pointless opinions that will likely never change anything anyway.

And in regards to savage participation, we have actual statistics showing 20-30% of the playerbase engages with savage on some level. If this is "extremely small minority" that doesn't deserve any consideration we would very quickly run out of things that are worth considering and have the game consisting of... 30-hour long MSQ movie once every couple of years? You know, some will probably like it.

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Originally Posted by Thi

I lump myself in the middle tier, nice try though.

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statistically speaking, the vast majority of players will be mid tier, which means, your ranking system would actually do nothing for you.

which means you are back to finding an FC which plays the way you want to play, or, friends...

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Originally Posted by Thi

Someone can't read I guess?

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I read it. That is why I’m asking you why you felt the need to make the post in the first place. Shouldn’t you be more concerned with content that matters rather than random groups that take hardly any time even under non ideal circumstances?

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Ah, of course. The "but I play for fun, it's not a job" argument. Newsflash - I also play for fun. My "fun" is not your "fun" though. And that's ok, we can find different things fun. I don't deny you your fun. But for some reason it's ok to dismiss mine completely.

Also, I have never demanded anything to be changed. You seem to be intent on ignoring the fact that I'm fine accepting the game for what it is. I even stated that such system goes against XIV design philosophy. Regardless if I agree with this philosophy or not (and I do not, as you have probably guessed). In the end, we are here to share pointless opinions that will likely never change anything anyway.

And in regards to savage participation, we have actual statistics showing 20-30% of the playerbase engages with savage on some level. If this is "extremely small minority" that doesn't deserve any consideration we would very quickly run out of things that are worth considering and have the game consisting of... 30-hour long MSQ movie once every couple of years? You know, some will probably like it.

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If your idea of "fun" is treating something like a job (as mentioned... I've been there, and I've long since been done with it) and trashing others, then sure, I'm dismissing it. Again, pay attention to how you come across. Nothing you've said so far supports your claim that you're "fine" with things as they are, so others telling you to find a game you actually enjoy fully isn't "dismissing" anything, it's saying your time would be better spent elsewhere than insisting things should be altered to your liking. I don't go over to the Dota community to make "suggestions" that would fundamentally change the game at its core to the point it no longer resembles what it was. SE has found something that brings the money in and the vast majority have fun with, and outside of actual improvements (housing system, glamour, certain class changes, QoL, etc.) there's zero reason for them to risk something so drastic for an extreme minority.

Regarding those supposed Ex/Sav numbers... Yeah, no, fairly certain those have been stated time and again to not be accurate (coming from non-official websites people tout), and if they were, don't you think SE would make more difficult content than they do? They have the actual numbers after all, yet continuously favor more casual content... Wonder why.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

If your idea of "fun" is treating something like a job (as mentioned... I've been there, and I've long since been done with it) and trashing others, then sure, I'm dismissing it. Again, pay attention to how you come across. Nothing you've said so far supports your claim that you're "fine" with things as they are, so others telling you to find a game you actually enjoy fully isn't "dismissing" anything, it's saying your time would be better spent elsewhere than insisting things should be altered to your liking. I don't go over to the Dota community to make "suggestions" that would fundamentally change the game at its core to the point it no longer resembles what it was. SE has found something that brings the money in and the vast majority have fun with, and outside of actual improvements (housing system, glamour, certain class changes, QoL, etc.) there's zero reason for them to risk something so drastic for an extreme minority.

Regarding those supposed Ex/Sav numbers... Yeah, no, fairly certain those have been stated time and again to not be accurate (coming from non-official websites people tout), and if they were, don't you think SE would make more difficult content than they do? They have the actual numbers after all, yet continuously favor more casual content... Wonder why.

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Ah, so this truly is a simple "my fun and content is more important than yours". An opinion I mostly share but that leads us to a conversational dead end. Shame.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Ah, so this truly is a simple "my fun and content is more important than yours". An opinion I mostly share but that leads us to a conversational dead end. Shame.

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Its funny how these people screamed and cried when the game came out to keep an API from being released so damage meters wouldnt be added even though YoshiP said that it would shortly after the game was launched. Now, they want to deny others the right of advocating changes that they would enjoy in the game.

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Originally Posted by Derio

This is a community about picking up the slack for those who are too distracted by one thing or another to play.

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Fixed that for you.

Content that can be accessed through random matchmaking - expert roulette, normal raids/trials, etc (i know raidfinder exists but nobody uses that on NA). Is already so easy that a few good players can carry less skilled players through it just fine. And if you're a good player, the difference between a group of all good players optimizing the content and you carrying some less skilled players is... maybe, 5-10 minutes? 15 extra minutes if it goes really poorly. Is a couple more minutes on your daily roulette worth segregating the playerbase and increasing queue times across the board? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Ah, so this truly is a simple "my fun and content is more important than yours". An opinion I mostly share but that leads us to a conversational dead end. Shame.

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Not even remotely what was said, but sure, if it makes you feel better.

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

Its funny how these people screamed and cried when the game came out to keep an API from being released so damage meters wouldnt be added even though YoshiP said that it would shortly after the game was launched. Now, they want to deny others the right of advocating changes that they would enjoy in the game.

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Honey, I've never posted in the damage meters thread, and don't do Ex/Sav, as I stated previously. Been there, done that in other MMOs, got the shirt. Further, as I and others have already pointed out, you are expecting the devs to fundamentally change the game to suit an extreme minority, something they have said over and over that they will never do. You aren't being "denied the right to advocate changes" by anyone; you're (and others as well) putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring reality.

Jesus, why is everyone so... angry? I thought it's a given that playing spin-the-wheel with the people you get will not give 10/10 results. Not to mention someone probably is just having an off day. If you want to play only with people of your "skill" level, find a group of them with your interests and mindset and play roulettes with them or something. I'm not saying you need to "carry" a "bad", for god's sake it's just a random dungeon, not your P4S progression.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Jesus, why is everyone so... angry? I thought it's a given that playing spin-the-wheel with the people you get will not give 10/10 results. Not to mention someone probably is just having an off day. If you want to play only with people of your "skill" level, find a group of them with your interests and mindset and play roulettes with them or something. I'm not saying you need to "carry" a "bad", for god's sake it's just a random dungeon, not your P4S progression.

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People would rather gripe that a game which never advertised itself as being hardcore... isn't hardcore. Silly, isn't it? It would not surprise me in the least if these are the same people who cheese ilvl to get Snore Tower etc. in roulette...

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

Why is it always a very mediocre blue parser with a handful of total kills on only the first couple bosses that make these threads? It doesn’t ever seem to be an Orange parser with every boss on farm. Hmmm. Interesting isn’t it?

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Insecurity tends to create an increased need to posture and attempt to establish hierarchy. I have a sense that the type of people that get elitist about under-tuned roulette content tend to alienate a lot of people, which is probably why "run with a premade" never seems to be an acceptable solution despite it instantly alleviating basically all of their complaints. It's hard to make a premade when people avoid you.

I wonder if any of the people suggesting this have tried PvP in this game. Talk about matchmaking...

Anyways, its a dumb idea.

I love how easy it is to tell who gets carried in here based on how they reply lol.

I just want people to pay 100% attention to this game when they are doing content with others. Instead we get too many people who are: 50% netflix, 25% phone, 25% game.

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Originally Posted by Mandudez

I love how easy it is to tell who gets carried in here based on how they reply lol.

I just want people to pay 100% attention to this game when they are doing content with others. Instead we get too many people who are: 50% netflix, 25% phone, 25% game.

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FFXIV players can't handle 100% of my attention.
If I give anything more than 20% attention, I would have been banned by the stupidity I have witnessed and can now easily shrug off because I have a phone and netflix to divert to.
Duty Finder has ruined me.

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

Why is it always a very mediocre blue parser with a handful of total kills on only the first couple bosses that make these threads? It doesn’t ever seem to be an Orange parser with every boss on farm. Hmmm. Interesting isn’t it?

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As I alluded to earlier...and as you are. These threads are usually made by wanna be elites looking for reliable carries.

I don't support it simply because it would never tell the whole story. You get people who like to help prog/reclears on another job, and they are lousy at it compared to their main raid job. You see this from time-to-time, someone who plays ranged but then struggles at melee because they think uptime at all costs.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

As I alluded to earlier...and as you are. These threads are usually made by wanna be elites looking for reliable carries.

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Shows how much you know. For starters blue is actually above average on the website alone. Most parses are pushed down by players flooding their parse run uploads. No way are people uploading their green/grays on purpose unless someone else in the party does it. I can guarantee you there are far more would be gray parses out there not uploads than there are purple/orange. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that ratio was so high that it actually bumped every current parse up a color tier (so greens are now blue etc.).

What does ELO even mean?

Either way everything you said next is a terrible idea having a hidden skill rating is a terrible idea. If you are unfortunate enough to start with a bad group it has a high chance of them dragging you down with them putting you in an endless spiral downwards.

Besides keep GCD rolling? Since EW release my ping has increased by a mere 1000%, yes my ping went from 140 to 3000, sorry the bad servers and the influx of wow refugees and returning players is hurting my connection with the game, hurting my performance at the same rate.

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Originally Posted by Thi

What I propose is to bring in an ELO system to this game that ranks your individual performance and groups you with similar players..

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Arpad Elo would probably be amused (or, perhaps, horrified) that his system, used to calculate the relative skill level of chess players, was being proposed for a non-esports-based MMORPG.

It might find a use in PvP, assuming that FFXIV PvP had a big enough following to make ranked play a competitive [Esports] thing.

The OP is, however, attempting to use a medium sized glove as a shoe. It just isn't going to work.

Iirc ELO is already inappropriate for team based PvP, where it's used a bit too often atm (with questionable results). xD Poor guy.