Tank healing is to high

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Fair. But why can’t SE add something to DRK to give it a viable heal that is untenable to use outside of “have to or die” scenarios - something akin to clemency that normally is not going to be part of the rotation and is an option at a cost of DPS? DRKs kit has been parted so why not a loosely related cousin of PLD in that of clemency?

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Why does every tank needs the same or even skills?

How about variety like a HP tank with selfheal (WAR), an armortank with blocks (PLD), a magic-tank with barriers (DRK) and an evasion-tank with mixed defs (GNB)???
No... everything needs to be homogenized, any subclasses have to sit on the same stats, the same gear and stuff. With a bit of variety SE could easily build up different content and the tankmeta would even change at any time if the bosses have either more physical or magical damage, or if they hit faster or just show up with hardhitters. But no... we need more of the same bs on any class. Seriously guys, wake up!

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Why does every tank needs the same or even skills?

How about variety like a HP tank with selfheal (WAR), an armortank with blocks (PLD), a magic-tank with barriers (DRK) and an evasion-tank with mixed defs (GNB)???
No... everything needs to be homogenized, any subclasses have to sit on the same stats, the same gear and stuff. With a bit of variety SE could easily build up different content and the tankmeta would even change at any time if the bosses have either more physical or magical damage, or if they hit faster or just show up with hardhitters. But no... we need more of the same bs on any class. Seriously guys, wake up!

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I’d love DRK to be the barrier tank but SE gave shields to everyone else and they haven’t leaned into it enough to make it effective. So if they don’t do that then they need to give some more self sustain

They could give more barriers to DRK, move it from the magic tank to the barrier tank. But for that it needs more than a single barrier.
Reflavor its CDs around that, Dark Missionary being 10% of your HP as a shield to everyone and a healing received buff, Dark Mind could be a lower level personal shield that upgrades either to TBN or Oblation.
TBN could get upgraded (maybe to oblation) to have several layers like Haima. Stuff like that.

I am a healer main. I don't mind DPSing when I heal, if we make it some form of INTERESTING. But it isn't. The closest thing to interesting is AST getting to do some buffing with card tricks. And since I rarely have to worry about anyone or anything, because there isn't enough damage... - yes, I want there to be panic moments for me, too. Now it's just "oh, that dude is going to get 1 shot because he didn't move fast enough" not "oh the whole party needs heals" etc. If people are playing optimally, I'm doing nothing but pressing my single DPS ability and refreshing a DoT and occasionally using an oGCD AOE heal when some obligatory AOE lands. This is the first xpac where I decided to level a DPS class first, because healing isn't really all that fun, and hasn't been for a while.

Back when I played WoW in the old beforetimes, that was the case. Tanks couldn't sustain themselves, and to pretend they could is absolutely absurd. This is true of most games. The reason tanks need healers is, surprisingly, because they can't keep themselves alive without them, they mitigate damage but still take it.

Holy trinity games are designed to make it so that each point in the triangle needs the other two. If you don't NEED healers except for the top 1% of content, we have broken the trinity. Is that to blame on tank sustain? Nah. It's game design in general. But tank sustain certainly doesn't _help._ And yes, WAR has always been a limited lifegain tank. They had lifegain as their mitigation - but it was never meant to be a consistent safety net. Just another mitigation.

Sucks they removed stance dancing, was awesome and made tanking more fun. Pulling mobs with defencive stance as warrior and switching to attacking stance to just pound the giant group of mobs.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

Sucks they removed stance dancing, was awesome and made tanking more fun. Pulling mobs with defencive stance as warrior and switching to attacking stance to just pound the giant group of mobs.

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Tbf, there are very good reasons Warriors tend to miss it more than DRKs or PLDs.

Imagine having to pay nearly half an Edge/Flood (or, Dark Arts, for ~140 potency) in MP and a GCD to boot, just to turn your tank stance back on. Or, if you were PLD, you'd have to pay a GCD in each direction.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Why does every tank needs the same or even skills?

How about variety like a HP tank with selfheal (WAR), an armortank with blocks (PLD), a magic-tank with barriers (DRK) and an evasion-tank with mixed defs (GNB)???

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Unless we're going to oblige leveling multiple tanks and having a strict two-tank meta for each fight, distinctly "magic" and "physical" tanks seem a bad idea.

Moreover, unless the style/class of mitigation actually changes how the tank plays... so what? Self-healing works rather differently, though would still need eHP increases elsewhere to even get an opportunity to self-heal after strong tankbusters, but blocks vs. barriers vs. evasion (assuming said evasion we're just the pure chance of "maybe I die, but maybe I be OP")?

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

an armortank with blocks (PLD), a magic-tank with barriers (DRK)

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This was tried in heavensward. It was not a good time.

Not like PLD's defense was physical only.
The "magic" aspect could be represented by the focus on creating barriers tho.

I believe the issue is the content is severely undertuned

Possibly too yes, that's another way to rebalance it. Though that'd require a heavy buff on DRK mitigation

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This was tried in heavensward. It was not a good time.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Unless we're going to oblige leveling multiple tanks and having a strict two-tank meta for each fight, distinctly "magic" and "physical" tanks seem a bad idea.

Moreover, unless the style/class of mitigation actually changes how the tank plays... so what? Self-healing works rather differently, though would still need eHP increases elsewhere to even get an opportunity to self-heal after strong tankbusters, but blocks vs. barriers vs. evasion (assuming said evasion we're just the pure chance of "maybe I die, but maybe I be OP")?

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It just has been an example and those minor differences from tank to tank are really not a thing to talk about. Pretty much any tank has the same cooldowns with the same timer and a bit of difference is "blockchance, magical defense, selfheal" and it´s all so hard homogenized in its potencies or use, that those differences are completely irrelevant. But nevertheless other games made it happen to bring up 3-4 different tanks or even healer classes which has been able to dispell categorized debuffs only and it worked.

It´s just a matter of content-building and actually brings more oppurtunities to the game. Just a standard example would look like "A boss switches randomly between magical and physical tankbusters.", so if you want to bring the best setup you pick those phys. and mag. tanks and they swap when they see the indicator for each instance. If you want to go a more safe variant, which hurts more of course, you might pick the life-tank and don´t tankswap so often or only at a 2nd flat damage tankbuster.

It´s a bunch of efford, but it would be even possible that the games checks your party like "Oh PLD and DRK combo.", so the game is going to adjust with its pierce-damage by itself and the players have to react on it.

There are a lot of possibilities to make such things happen. It´s just a lack of creativity and efford why this game is in the state it is. SE just needs to start to think out of the box.

(And btw a meta will exist anyway. But it doesn´t mean that anyone will jump on that train. Better variety and a sick meta than the borderness with homogenized stuff and everything 99,9% balanced. This is a PvE game, not PvP...)

EDIT: Just for evasiontanks... Those have always been great with add-bosses and aren´t even bad as MT too. Ofcourse they would never be so strong as a full armor-tank as MT and tankbusters needs to go through the evasion, but it would actually mix things up in kind of gameplay for both, tanks and healer. While a standard tank would drop with a permanent curve, an evasiontank could drop hard... or not! This would bring some variety into the healer gameplay, for sure.
As i´ve said, a matter of content-building and efford.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Damage is by and far the one thing that matters most in this game. Trading some of DRK's current damage for more mitigation/self-healing would in fact be a nerf in the eyes of the raiding community.

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Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

The margin of error is way too high for the DPS of any given job to matter that much. Even high-end raiders often play whatever they want. The world first for Eden's Promise had a Bard, for Christ's sake, which was the closest thing to a "so weak that it's a meme" job that the last expac had. The game is more balanced than it's ever been, perhaps even to a fault, so how a job feels to play really is more important than its output to just about every demographic.

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Originally Posted by Zordrage

Yeah... thats why everyone is changing from DRk or outright avoid doing any serious content with it right ?

Majority of the Players don't care about the small Raiding comunity they just want to enjoy DRKs gameplay and thats realy bad atm mainly for 2 reasons Lack of selfsustain AND overall Boring Rotation.

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What is this... a crusade to give DRK more selfsustain?

I´ve seen your own thread and if those "healer quit because of DRK" has been really a thing, have you ever considered, that you´re just not a good DRK since you claimed that they´ve struggled to healed you 2 times and then quitted for whatever reason? DRK isn´t better or worse than other tanks are, it still relies on the player behind it to use the tools correctly. WAR is the only one which is non stop broken AND have the worst rotation this game offers. It´s still often played and guess why? Because it´s the easiest tank to play but more than half tanks out there still don´t know what they´re doing.

Tanks are broken, no matter about which tank we´re talking.

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Originally Posted by Zordrage

No dmg is not the most important thing. Only Raid racers think that, they would scrafice half of the kits of all tanks and make them 100% unenjoyable and bad if it would mean they get 20% more damage.

Lets NOT balance the game arround that.

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It´s all about damage... even healers are expected to spam 1 in 90% of the whole fight, because it´s about damage. If a healer have to cast his spells out of big pulls, then something is going completely wrong. Even casting in bigpulls is not a thing with a good tank. In casual content it´s "either you´ve damage or you stuck here half an hour" and in savage it´s "either you´ve damage or you wipe at the enrage".
Then damage income is laughable as much as invuled tankbusters are.

- Weak damage = adds / boss lives longer = more mechanics to play, higher chance to fail or you hit the enrage
- Strong damage = everything is killed fast = less mechanics to play, maybe even skip the hardest, you won´t hit the enrage

Damage is definately the most important thing in this game. Tanks have more defs than they´ll ever need, healers more healing tools than they need and DPS utility for reasons only god knows. And btw no serious tank is going to stack tenacity "because it´s about more than damage" unless it´s on the BIS for ultimate because caused by caps. I would be happy if the roles would fit their roles actually and materia made for them. Instead we´ve godlike tanks, green 1 button dps and real dps classes without any self-sustain and homogenization at its best.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This was tried in heavensward. It was not a good time.

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Oh yeah, that was around the time PLD were a liability because every hard hitting TB was magic damage and block didn't help against that. Fun times.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

What is this... a crusade to give DRK more selfsustain

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Of course it is. Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer? Why do you insist on downplaying the credible concerns of other players? If nothing else, let the devs read it and decide.

When the devs and producer of the game say all content can and will be clearable by every tank why is “highest DPS tank” a thing. Who gives a flighting fuck when the job is NOT fun to play. Your highest DPS ability is a DOT that you have no control over - how incredibly boring is that? High DPS is not an identity, nor is it a reason to deprive DRK of BASELINE self-sustain tools.

I dunno man. WAR's incredible defenses, broke ass healing(Chaos enhanced attacks always crit heal too!!) for itself and an ally, frequent bursts, and immunity to knockbacks and a few annoying statuses under IR are too strong to be ignored.

Can't see why anyone would play another Tank this xpac.

Against the first raid fight the whole party wiped except for the Warrior, DRK and myself a Reaper and we cleared it from 30% to 0%. Warrior was healing better then any healer with just Flash.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Of course it is. Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer? Why do you insist on downplaying the credible concerns of other players? If nothing else, let the devs read it and decide.

When the devs and producer of the game say all content can and will be clearable by every tank why is “highest DPS tank” a thing. Who gives a flighting fuck when the job is NOT fun to play. Your highest DPS ability is a DOT that you have no control over - how incredibly boring is that? High DPS is not an identity, nor is it a reason to deprive DRK of BASELINE self-sustain tools.

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Such concerns are shallow and plagued by ignorance or just bad skill.

Any tank is broken since SHB and all of them has become it even more with EW. DRK is no exception. Only WAR outshines every 3 of them with his overheal even on a partymember combined with a completely braindead rotation. So a serious question would be, why should DRK become more self-sustain? Why don´t you play WAR instead if you prefer heals instead of barriers? Who knows...

SHB did a lot to class dumbdowns and overtunings everywhere. The road continues and so many ppl here are like "this is not enough, why is DRK not more like the other tanks, why does it has 2% more DPS, blablabla...
Just check out this video someone posted in the healer section and you know how busted the current state of the game is: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qL4y1J7Mh (1 EX primal, beware spoiler)
2 Tanks, 6 DPS, no heal, gg....

There is so many nonsense written down here and in the DPS forum, it´s incredible. Only healer-mains seem to be like "Give us something to do, stop the 1 button dumbdowns!".
I´m not saying everyone has no clue, but a lot of ppl show up like "this class has this, my class need it too" or "had a tank spinning a boss yesterday, please get ride of positionals" or in case of the preposter "healer left the instance yesterday, have to be a thing because i played DRK and he wasn´t able to heal me properly, DRK sucks".
Doesn´t seem correct to me that there are "so many issues" when thousands of players are able to do their job on given classes, especially when tanks are already busted and braindead af that you can solo-carry the whole game. And it might sound arrogant af, but if i´m able to run any tank in any content, doing the same stuff over and over again, surviving the biggest pulls possible, then tanks are balanced between each other in kind of self-sustain. I´ve carried different instances and solo 30% or more of bosses with WAR, PLD, DRK and GNB in the past, while GNB has actually been the difficulty one, not DRK.

Tanks are broken... and ppl should finally start to think about the consequences of their posts and may should accept that they´re not so good players who should judge about some kind of balancing. We´re at this state of homogenization and easy peasy run throughs because a bunch of players have always been like "Impossible, please buff, ühhhh 1% damage gap between tanks, etc..." I remember WAR being the lowest in dmg mid SHB without having a broken selfheal... and some ppl complained, so it got buffed and buffed and buffed again. WAR was unstoppable, now it´s godlike for no reason thx to complaints without any thoughts behind them ... in a game which doesn´t force anything anyway.

Sorry but "this one tank should stay gimped because if all 4 are broken then the whole game will be!"? It already is - on top of one of the tanks feeling like crap to play. Two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Former DRK mains could be asking to take self-sustain away from other tanks if you’d prefer?

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Honestly, that sounds preferable, yeah.

DRK should have a bit more, but some (WAR comes to mind), should have considerably less.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Sorry but "this one tank should stay gimped because if all 4 are broken then the whole game will be!"? It already is - on top of one of the tanks feeling like crap to play. Two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.

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If you mean me, you should read carefully. If anything... i claimed is that all tanks are broken and WAR even above them. DRK is NOT gimped. It just plays different than pressing one button to overheal yourself. And if something feels like crap to play or not is highly subjective isn´t it? There i even need to ask a question:

What is crap for you? Since the whole topic is about self-sustain, is it that? If so, why don´t you play WAR which is pretty similar but runs around with HP and selheals instead of MR and barriers? What hinders you or others, the aesthetics? Seriously think about it... DRK is WAR with different defs. Why should it get a selfheal on top? Why do we need such a homogenization? Was SHB not enough, so we have to dumbdown everything even more in EW?

If the content isn´t going to bitchslap tanks out of nowhere, all of them need a nerf. Healers have pretty much nothing to do and if they´ve in standard pulls, well... then the tank is not a good tank.

(And seriously... BLN -> Abyssal -> BLN instead of Bloodwhetting / Equilibrium, it works. Bosses don´t matter anyway with BLN and 123 heal.)

This thread is too High!

You have to be in complete denial if you think DRK is on par with WAR of all things. One can barely sustain themselves in situations where the other can solo heal 4 players. You are framing this in the vacuum of perfect EX runs where no one takes any extra damage, which is not how 99% of the game works. Just because it literally doesn't matter what comp you have in perfectly honed farm runs doesn't mean no job has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Strong self and party sustain is clearly a important part of the role design now, you disagreeing with that design won't change that, and it has an near universal advantage that's not made up by anything else in DRK toolkit.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

You have to be in complete denial if you think DRK is on par with WAR of all things. One can barely sustain themselves in situations where the other can solo heal 4 players. You are framing this in the vacuum of perfect EX runs where no one takes any extra damage, which is not how 99% of the game works. Just because it literally doesn't matter what comp you have in perfectly honed farm runs doesn't mean no job has inherent advantages and disadvantages. Strong self and party sustain is clearly a important part of the role design now, you disagreeing with that design won't change that, and it has an near universal advantage that's not made up by anything else in DRK toolkit.

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Again you don´t read properly. I´ve said that WAR is stronger than the others with teammember-heal, but the core rotation of DRK and WAR is pretty similar. So far, if you want "super broken" instead of "just broken" self-sustain, why don´t you play WAR?

And i´m not talking about 100% perfect playing farmgroups, i speak from my experience playing any tank with any groups out there. Randoms, mates, i do always the same and it just doesn´t matter. Tanks are broken, WAR is broken, PLD is broken, GNB is broken, DRK is broken. No need to homogenize them even more, when they actually need nerfs and / or the content huge buffs.

Have you checked the link i´ve posted? WAR + PLD + double reaper and 4 dancers clearing a new EX primal without a healer and some of them ate extra hits. This game has bigger issues than claims like "DRK is not on par in self-sustain, SE pls!", just because ppl don´t rotate with their defs correctly or spam EoD instead of BLN for safe damage.

These threads are toxic and I wish SE still perma banned people for this.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

These threads are toxic and I wish SE still perma banned people for this.

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Still? People actually got permanent banned for such threads? (I'm genuinely curious)

Yeah they did. Back in stormblood and before.

The main point of the self-healing changes it to make tanking comfy. What typically happens with beginner tanks is that they see their HP bar dropping below about 70% or so, and then they start panicking. They then blow through all their cooldowns or start raging at their healer. They also tend to lack an awareness of damage patterns, causing them to react too late and forcing their healer to burn resources to dig them out of the hole they put the team in. On-demand self-healing solves both of these problems. It also makes beginner tanks feel more in control of the situation, now that pretty much anyone can pick up a tank and solo something regardless of skill.

I also think that it makes sense for PLD and WAR to be most invested in self-healing, lore aside. If you load up a game for the first time and choose to pick up a sword or an axe, these are the two jobs you'll probably end up playing as your gateway into tanking. It's a much longer investment to complete through to Heavensward, jump into the Brume in Ishgard, and start levelling DRK back up from 30, and if you're doing all that, you've probably already know what you want to get into.

If self-sustain was intended to be a skilled endeavor, it would be timing dependent (i.e. press button to reverse damage received over the past 2 seconds, up to X% of your total HP.) That puts you into a situation where you still have to understand the damage pattern, and you're less likely to recover from a slip up. If DRK was to go the self-healing route, that's what I would personally prefer. But I think that the bubbles are equally interesting, and I'm really hoping that they just double down and turn it into a thematic focus. Nothing says that a tank has to have % damage reduction abilities at all. You can do everything with flat damage reduction if you know the damage numbers.

They might tone down some of these numbers depending on how the raid tier is tuned, but like it or not, this is likely a deliberate change to make tanks more accessible for newer players. If you're looking for carry potential in harder content that you won't be able to solo, paradoxically you may have to look elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Again you don´t read properly. I´ve said that WAR is stronger than the others with teammember-heal, but the core rotation of DRK and WAR is pretty similar. So far, if you want "super broken" instead of "just broken" self-sustain, why don´t you play WAR?

And i´m not talking about 100% perfect playing farmgroups, i speak from my experience playing any tank with any groups out there. Randoms, mates, i do always the same and it just doesn´t matter. Tanks are broken, WAR is broken, PLD is broken, GNB is broken, DRK is broken. No need to homogenize them even more, when they actually need nerfs and / or the content huge buffs.

Have you checked the link i´ve posted? WAR + PLD + double reaper and 4 dancers clearing a new EX primal without a healer and some of them ate extra hits. This game has bigger issues than claims like "DRK is not on par in self-sustain, SE pls!", just because ppl don´t rotate with their defs correctly or spam EoD instead of BLN for safe damage.

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You are all but admitting DRK is weak, to the point where you are pointing out the job shouldn't even be played right now looking at the efficiency. So I don't get your hostility to the point being made. And like I said, it's not all about self-sustain even. Good self mitigation is a given now, what sets the tanks apart is their ability to sustain the party and take off pressure from healers.

Asking for more of it for DRK is entirely reasonable with the current design choices - there's no sign they'll change their mind about healers any time soon, but balancing the tanks is at least somewhat likely. Just because you disagree with their direction with tanks and healing (not too jazzed myself) doesn't mean they shouldn't be balanced within their current objectives.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

You are all but admitting DRK is weak, to the point where you are pointing out the job shouldn't even be played right now looking at the efficiency. So I don't get your hostility to the point being made. And like I said, it's not all about self-sustain even. Good self mitigation is a given now, what sets the tanks apart is their ability to sustain the party and take off pressure from healers.

Asking for more of it for DRK is entirely reasonable with the current design choices - there's no sign they'll change their mind about healers any time soon, but balancing the tanks is at least somewhat likely. Just because you disagree with their direction with tanks and healing (not too jazzed myself) doesn't mean they shouldn't be balanced within their current objectives.

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Hmmm what? I don´t know where i´ve pointed out that you shouldn´t play the job, but ok. Since DRK has even more DPS than the other tanks, it´s more efficient isn´t it,? (Especially in big pulls with all the aoe?!)

Healers aren´t under pressure, the most barely use even all of their oGCD´s and probably never use casts, unless you´re AST and want to procc horoscope. They want something to do, just check out the heal-forums.

There is no need to balance subclasses in itself, when they work pretty even. As i´ve said, WAR is the only one with 1 superior tool against the other 3. It needs definately a nerf and overall all tanks need a nerf. As others said here and in other threads, it´s not up to the tanks kit, it´s up to the player. A bunch of ppl are godlike tanks while others suck with a broken kit, no matter which tank they´re playing and that´s acutally my experience too. But classes shouldn´t be balanced about the worst players available. Just because ppl don´t know how to play or just don´t want to put efford in their job, doesn´t mean that a class is useless or needs to be buffed. Again, all tanks are broken, WAR has a superior skill, all of them need a nerf and / or the content really hard hits and less telegraphs.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

They might tone down some of these numbers depending on how the raid tier is tuned, but like it or not, this is likely a deliberate change to make tanks more accessible for newer players. If you're looking for carry potential in harder content that you won't be able to solo, paradoxically you may have to look elsewhere.

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We already had more than enough dumbdowns with SHB to make "tank more accessible for newer players". Tanks have been non-stop broken and it has become worse. If you know a bit what you´re doing, you´ll carry the whole raid, even if you eat 3 aoe at once. Accessibility shouldn´t mean "3 buttons with godmode".

One of the reasons why a lot of players lost their interest in tanking are all the dumbdowns and nothing to care about even in savage raids. The tankmounts aren´t any help to get more players into tanking too, since they´re getting farmed unsynced. Once such newcomers will get confident with tanking, they probably switch to a DPS class with something to care about too. Imo the only reason to be a tank is to have "fast daily-queues".

Its absolutely wild to me that Tanks having more healing has now turned in to healers yelling about nerfing tanks so they have something to heal.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Tank sustainability is a good thing. The problem is we don't have the damage intake to match it.

Having a strong toolkit that rewards you for using it well is more interesting than standing there doing 1, 2, 3 endlessly while the healers throw you an oGCD occasionally. But if bosses just tickle you, there's no purpose for those self-heals. That's the problem.

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That's cool for you, but as a healer what am I supposed to do? Lol. I press 1 and 1 and maybe even 1 if time permits. This game is in a weird state where it's very choreographed and if everyone does their job right, damage isn't doled out, and healers....do dps with their thought provoking rotation. There should be more to being a healer than one off group aoe heal checks and dps. Damage should not only be aoe checks and if someone messes up. There should be a reason why a healer is in the party for more than one part of a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Clarkamite

Its absolutely wild to me that Tanks having more healing has now turned in to healers yelling about nerfing tanks so they have something to heal.

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Tanks tanking our jobs. :(

I mean honestly, why the heck not.
Tanks don't need heals > healers kit become obsolete (90% of their buttons) > almost every healer will be dpsing now > se will realize pressing 1 button is not ok

Right?

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Originally Posted by Endariel

I mean honestly, why the heck not.
Tanks don't need heals > healers kit become obsolete (90% of their buttons) > almost every healer will be dpsing now > se will realize pressing 1 button is not ok

Right?

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You'd think anyone would come to that conclusion right? But the devs would have to actually play it for a day. But hey they apparently play their own game, I mean they must be right if they can put out statements like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1QVttphXek

Perhaps having a bunch of self-sustain is fun. But I have to squint a bit at the idea that one of the three roles has members that have/can
- a flying boatload of defense
- a crapload of HP
- can sustain themselves indefinitely in most content
- can heal other party members
- and nearly as much damage as a DPS

Sooooooo...you're a one man army then? What exactly are you supposed to need the other two roles for then? If you want to abandon the idea of the trinity go for it; I think this game has thrown enough of it out the window that deleting/repurposing the healer role makes more sense than fixing it after all. But "yeah tanks *should* be able to stay alive forever while also dishing out a ton of damage and healing themselves to full with a snap of their fingers and casually ignoring mechanics that instantly kill everyone else" is...certainly a take.

Tank healing is fine.

Many complaining are also the type of healers to not DPS because they're a healer.

You'd have something to do if you did anything else except spam GCD heals.

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Originally Posted by Mies

Tank healing is fine.

Many complaining are also the type of healers to not DPS because they're a healer.

You'd have something to do if you did anything else except spam GCD heals.

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You almost got me with this. I had a long response written up but realized how on the nose you're being right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mies

Tank healing is fine.

Many complaining are also the type of healers to not DPS because they're a healer.

You'd have something to do if you did anything else except spam GCD heals.

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What? This makes absolutely no sense. Have you not even looked at what's going on with healing and tanks right now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

These threads are toxic and I wish SE still perma banned people for this.

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Wanting my class to be relevant is the least thing toxic. No. I was able to post mutt opinion on job balance in storm blood just fine without any concern of being banned. Rules most likely were broken in those instance