Last thing the world needs is to increase a player's financial burden in a videogame.

I think I'm less concerned over the price changes than I am the principle of it.

It doesn't feel like some minor price increases to teleportation costs is really going to be that much of a gil sink enough to warrant the change; wouldn't it be better to focus on adding more items (at less egregious prices than the gold mounts) to the gil shop? Or axing some of the myriad ways we have to make gil right now? Adding price change fees to the marketboard, or increasing the tax?

It won't be as big a deal as it's being made out to be, and less so for me and mine - I'm notorious for penny pinching and keeping the RR buff active at all times. But it just doesn't seem like the best way they could choose to combat inflation and take gil out of the market, compared to a myriad of other options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

1.0 was a very different era of MMO history, todays players would have a tantrum so big it would cause another calamity if they introduced a stamina system to limit teleports. Even FFXI has moved on from that kind of time wasting and makes travel as easy as possible now.

It's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses and remember all those moments of open jawed wonder as we travelled through dangerous open worlds on some epic adventure, and also easy to forget all the times we spent 45 minutes running to camp only for the party to disband after 15 minutes, or get aggro within sight of our destination and have to run all the way back again.

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Spare me the "rose tinted glasses" cliche defense. I don't claim people who like some aspects of old inconveniences of MMOs are a majority, but there definitely is a niche that likes them. I can't go in detail about how I know this due the legally gray area it involves, but it exists. I don't "misremember" 1.0 or other classic experiences. I legit miss some aspects of them and actually LIKE things requiring more time to be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I think I'm less concerned over the price changes than I am the principle of it.

It doesn't feel like some minor price increases to teleportation costs is really going to be that much of a gil sink enough to warrant the change.

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I’m not specifically replying to you, but you were the last to say this. The intended purpose is not a gil sink.

It’s been said, I thought pretty clearly, that this isn’t a straight up increase in costs that people are getting mad over.

It’s just a recalculation of prices. There might be some increase (and indeed I would expect far places to cost more like Limsa to Kugane via teleport). There also might be significant savings if you’re just derping around Thanalan only.

I’ve replied several times about how to be more thrifty, but man people are getting mad without actually reading what’s being changed.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8_15-13-18.jpgYou will notice from Costa del Sol to Crystarium would normally be 999 gil now is half that.

From Costa del Sol, you could also easily hit the boat to Limsa and another boat to Kugane up for less than the amount listed above. If you are in that much of a hurry that you can’t do that, the price is fair.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Spare me the "rose tinted glasses" cliche defense. I don't claim people who like some aspects of old inconveniences of MMOs are a majority, but there definitely is a niche that likes them. I can't go in detail about how I know this due the legally gray area it involves, but it exists. I don't "misremember" 1.0 or other classic experiences. I legit miss some aspects of them and actually LIKE things requiring more time to be done.

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Spare me the lecture and go and play an old MMO then, there are plenty still active.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

You will notice from Costa del Sol to Crystarium would normally be 999 gil now is half that.

From Costa del Sol, you could also easily hit the boat to Limsa and another boat to Kugane up for less than the amount listed above. If you are in that much of a hurry that you can’t do that, the price is fair.

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Some people simply don't like any challenges in games (according to some replies in this thread).
All games are made for players to overcome challenges and be happy with their achievement, among other things.

When I want no challenges, just some personal fantasy, I go play an offline game and cheat the heck our of it. No efforts required.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I haven't seen a fourth but I did post the third (with an apology). This was one of the two posts that prompted me to make mine, specifically because both start with hyperbole about how terrible it will be for players – regressive tax! financial burden! – and zero information about the changes, which aren't nearly as bad as people are claiming. And I tried to post clarifying information within those threads but people seem to just come in, read the OP and comment on that.

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And it should've stopped after your thread which I feel was the definite one with clearifying misinformation/misunderstanding by many.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

As someone who completed ARR and HW during the Free Trial and as a result has had barely any money ever since, I can't say this was my favourite of the changes they've announced... Hell, even my alt I don't think I ever broke 3 million gil and I've already reached the start of Shadowbringers. I don't understand how (some) people have hundreds of millions quite frankly

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Playing the game. Don't spend the gil (there is little you'd need to spend it on to begin with). Craft and gather. Sell mounts from old content. etc etc

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Spare me the lecture and go and play an old MMO then, there are plenty still active.

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*nom nom*

popcorn anyone?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

And it should've stopped after your thread which I feel was the definite one with clearifying misinformation/misunderstanding by many.

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Thanks. I don't think I've seen new threads posted since, though; this was already active and people just keep posting in it and buoying it up.


The other thread, if anyone missed it:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ecord-straight

They would be better off just taxing people with houses since the majority of people who own a house or multiple houses are the ones forcing their hand with inflation. There are so few houses and people have such a rare chance to even get one that taxing them pretty harshly would be fair.

That in itself would likely fix the issue of inflation since its only a small percent that are hording so much gil. I being one of those people and every friend I have is the same. We are all omnicrafters, we have a lot of realestate and gil capped. I doubt a hundred thousand sprouts would ever be able to reach that level together.

This is probably gonna be seen as a hot take by people who are hording gil and housing plots like myself :P

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Originally Posted by Mezzoforte

They would be better off just taxing people with houses since the majority of people who own a house or multiple houses are the ones forcing their hand with inflation. There are so few houses and people have such a rare chance to even get one that taxing them pretty harshly would be fair.

That in itself would likely fix the issue of inflation since its only a small percent that are hording so much gil. I being one of those people and every friend I have is the same. We are all omnicrafters, we have a lot of realestate and gil capped. I doubt a hundred thousand sprouts would ever be able to reach that level together.

This is probably gonna be seen as a hot take by people who are hording gil and housing plots like myself :P

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It's uncanny how "real" this all feels lmao... So much for escapism

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

it just doesn't seem like the best way they could choose to combat inflation and take gil out of the market, compared to a myriad of other options.

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Seriously, take it from the rich. Tax balance over X gil, introducing a soft cap, problem solved.
The problem is not players teleporting around, it's people with more money than Jeff Bezos.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I’m not specifically replying to you, but you were the last to say this. The intended purpose is not a gil sink.

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Oh is it not? My memory for the live letter specifics itself is pretty fuzzy, I was mentally tapping out right around when they got to healer changes (it was super late at night for me) - so the rest is a bit of a blend. Thought I'd heard them say it's intended as a gil sink, but might have just been some posts about it here and on reddit blurring into whatever they'd said about it on stream.

In that case, yeah - I don't really have an opinion on it. It isn't going to make or break the bank for most people, especially if they keep RR buffs going constantly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

It's uncanny how "real" this all feels lmao... So much for escapism

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Yeah, though the problem with having to introduce reality is there are real problems that need solved. Such as housing. Inflation. Etc. When you stop trying to solve core issues like that games tend to implode. Inflation can slowly strangle a game by essentially bringing the number of new players incoming to zero over time. Escapism could be the main focus if they got rid of Gil and housing was turned into similar to apartments and then let everyone have one. Until they fix the issue of scarcity real life will always drag itself and all its problems into the limelight :(

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Oh is it not? My memory for the live letter specifics itself is pretty fuzzy, I was mentally tapping out right around when they got to healer changes (it was super late at night for me) - so the rest is a bit of a blend. Thought I'd heard them say it's intended as a gil sink, but might have just been some posts about it here and on reddit blurring into whatever they'd said about it on stream.

In that case, yeah - I don't really have an opinion on it. It isn't going to make or break the bank for most people, especially if they keep RR buffs going constantly.

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As I understood it, it was more like "It just doesn't make sense that a teleport from Limsa to Kugane will cost the same as a teleport to the moon. Also, wtf with Rhalgr's Reach; it's right next to Gridania practically yet it costs as much as going across the continent to Limsa or Ul'dah."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

As I understood it, it was more like "It just doesn't make sense that a teleport from Limsa to Kugane will cost the same as a teleport to the moon. Also, wtf with Rhalgr's Reach; it's right next to Gridania practically yet it costs as much as going across the continent to Limsa or Ul'dah."

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I'd say they make us pay extra for the secrecy, but well you know...

Maybe whoever we're giving the gil to donates back to the resistance? Who are we even giving the gil to?

1500 Gil for a teleport? Oh noes....
Ok, my retainers bring me every day stuff (these tokens you can exchange for money) for at least 30k Gil.
I could bake cookies for ~100k GIL a day.
I could farm treasure maps.
I could exchange gear from dungeons for GC seals and buy repair materials for it.
I could use hunt seals for aetheryte tickets.
I could send my squadron to collect aetheryte priority passes which give 40% reduction for 2 hours.
I could just play the game.

But yeah, 1500 Gil for teleport. I will definitely notice that. Never...

And then i could check the housing discord and wonder where people got 500 Million GIL to buy houses / FCs because this is the real rare stuff.

I could buy a medium or big house now (if it would be at the lower end) but basically there's nothing for sale.

FFXIV lacks any money sink. There is none. Money just accumulates and accumulates and every week i make half a million without doing anything extraordinary. And i'm only playing currently 1-2 hours a day. I'm not even explicitely farming Gil. It's just playing the game which gives me 50k each day. Plus some weekly stuff.

Hello OP,

I remember being concerned over dipping VERY low in Gil a couple of times back when I started ARR, so I understand the essence of your point. That was seven years ago though and a lot's changed. Gil is easier to come by now by just simply playing the game than it was then. Even though I was worried that I wouldn't have the Gil to upgrade gear at the next leveling tier, I never completely ran out and never got to the point where I couldn't continue playing. It did make me more aware of travel costs so I spent the extra time running back and forth rather than teleporting back to town after completing each quest, which saved some money.

I get that you don't want to have to think about these things while participating in an activity meant to take you out of the real world and forget real world concerns. The best advice/response I can give is to just play the game and not worry about logistics. Chances are exceedingly slim that you'll actually get to the point where you're so low on Gil that you can't continue going through the MSQ.

Easy Gil making tips:
1. Sell everything you don't actually use. Every drop in the game is useful for something, there aren't "trash drops" like in other games. Every time you go back to a place with a Summoning Bell, check to see if anything you have in your inventory is selling for 3x or more of the amount you get for just vendoring it. If so, put it on the MB. If you're going to be in that zone for a while, it can sometimes be worth waiting until you're about to go to the next zone before doing this so you can put a single larger stack rather than multiple smaller stacks up for sale.

2. Turn everything you can in to your Grand Company to get seals to buy Ventures with. Use these to keep your retainers going out on ventures. Sell everything you get from them.

3. If you're limited on time to play, pick a single daily task to do, such as doing the Leveling Roulette every day. That alone will cover most daily costs and will add up over time.

4. Most importantly: FORGET YOU HAVE GIL. Just play the game and enjoy it. You'll always have enough Gil to play the game and it will accumulate over time.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

I think they do the teleport cost increase for a few reasons:
-Gil sink. Though I think it is better for them just introduce more gilded mount that costs 10m gil+
-Make BLU's contents relevant. Aetheryte tickets that give free teleport are traded with Allied Seals, which BLU gets a lot doing weekly.
-Make Squadron a bit more relevant with their teleport discount buff. Same with FC buff with the same effect.

-Make more people use 2-step verification for that free destination, thus improve players' security. Less players get hacked -> less headache for support team.

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What is BLU content?? Never heard of this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Also, wtf with Rhalgr's Reach; it's right next to Gridania practically yet it costs as much as going across the continent to Limsa or Ul'dah.

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Did they say that in the presentation or are you asking that yourself?

I mapped out the teleport network a while back, based on the prices:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...887.1513846048

I'm not convinced that it's true-to-geography accurate, more like the zones loosely arranged on a map, but the gap between Hawthorne and Castrum Oriens seems plausible when you consider that Baelsar's Wall takes up a wide swathe of land and is basically another zone between the two. And then most of the Fringes between the castrum and the Reach.

if you are going by distance.. I saw somewhere that the actual teleport cost to the moon should be 84,000 gil

they didnt do that, so, I guess we are lucky they didnt, could you imagine the whining then?

ENDWALKERS DISCRIMINATES AGAINST LOW LEVEL PLAYERS!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mezzoforte

They would be better off just taxing people with houses since the majority of people who own a house or multiple houses are the ones forcing their hand with inflation. There are so few houses and people have such a rare chance to even get one that taxing them pretty harshly would be fair.

That in itself would likely fix the issue of inflation since its only a small percent that are hording so much gil. I being one of those people and every friend I have is the same. We are all omnicrafters, we have a lot of realestate and gil capped. I doubt a hundred thousand sprouts would ever be able to reach that level together.

This is probably gonna be seen as a hot take by people who are hording gil and housing plots like myself :P

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As a house owner I agree 100% with this. FFXIV is so far the only MMORPG I've played where there is no tax system on LIMITED player housing. Asheron's Call and Archeage both required a monthly/2-week payment on rent that cost a portion of the price of the land itself. Fantastic gil sink, and I'd personally make it additive per-account. First house would be 5% of the purchase price a month in rent, second would be 25%, all the way up to 100% with a third and beyond. See how many people want to hoard houses when it costs them 20 million gil a month to keep.

Even make it so you could pay your rent 3 months ahead so people can take a break between patches and still have a house, if they can afford it. (Apartments, of course, would be kept as-is.)

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

In what world? I hit 80 multiple times over and didn't get to 4 mil. LOL.

Doesn't matter anyway, the "feature" is going to come, whether I like it or not.

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Meh, this only telling me someone is having issue with manage their wealth.

I like how a minor tweaking of teleport prices has developed into a call to storm the housing zones, pitchforks at the ready.

The difference in this game between a poor player and a rich one is the poor player cant be arsed to earn gil, and tge rich one can. Thats it.

Rich players didn't have a wealthy family to start them off at a huge advantage they had the same start as everyone else. If you want to be wealthy in FFXIV, get your arse in gear and earn some gil, nobody is holding you back. Im not trying to be Ben Shapiro here, he is a very high IQ person born to a wealthy family who seemingly can't understand why everyone can't become a lawyer and marry a doctor. Im just another adventurer who has put more effort into making gil than a thousand poor players combined, as a result I can earn more.

Its not a closed society either, my brother has been playing for only a few months and after just a few weeks decided he needed gil to feed his glamour habit, with a level 80 Fisher and 69 Weaver he is now making decent gil. Anyone can do it, all you need is effort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hydralus

As a house owner I agree 100% with this. FFXIV is so far the only MMORPG I've played where there is no tax system on LIMITED player housing. Asheron's Call and Archeage both required a monthly/2-week payment on rent that cost a portion of the price of the land itself. Fantastic gil sink, and I'd personally make it additive per-account. First house would be 5% of the purchase price a month in rent, second would be 25%, all the way up to 100% with a third and beyond. See how many people want to hoard houses when it costs them 20 million gil a month to keep.

Even make it so you could pay your rent 3 months ahead so people can take a break between patches and still have a house, if they can afford it. (Apartments, of course, would be kept as-is.)

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That most likely is due to housing originally being an FC only thing. Private homes were an afterthought when SE saw there were entire wards of empty plots months after the system was added in ARR. If they'd implemented an upkeep/tax system as you described it would have lead most FC's to essentially start charging membership dues in order to purchase and keep a house which then invites a whole mess of unnecessary drama into an online game. Instead they chose the home demolition system we have currently where plots get vacated if there is no interaction from the owner or registered occupants for a certain amount of time.

This game doesn't have enough gil sinks. Gil is useless and teleports have been too cheap for too long. This will help the health of the game and economy, honestly.

Though only slightly, I don't think they raised the price enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anirab

1500 Gil for a teleport? Oh noes....
Ok, my retainers bring me every day stuff (these tokens you can exchange for money) for at least 30k Gil.
I could bake cookies for ~100k GIL a day.
I could farm treasure maps.
I could exchange gear from dungeons for GC seals and buy repair materials for it.
I could use hunt seals for aetheryte tickets.
I could send my squadron to collect aetheryte priority passes which give 40% reduction for 2 hours.
I could just play the game.

But yeah, 1500 Gil for teleport. I will definitely notice that. Never...

And then i could check the housing discord and wonder where people got 500 Million GIL to buy houses / FCs because this is the real rare stuff.

I could buy a medium or big house now (if it would be at the lower end) but basically there's nothing for sale.

FFXIV lacks any money sink. There is none. Money just accumulates and accumulates and every week i make half a million without doing anything extraordinary. And i'm only playing currently 1-2 hours a day. I'm not even explicitely farming Gil. It's just playing the game which gives me 50k each day. Plus some weekly stuff.

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Pretty much. If there's anything harder, it's actually trying to spend wisely in MB. Failure in doing so will dry our wallet real quick. But then again we'll just keep piling up those gil the game rain us on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hydralus

As a house owner I agree 100% with this. FFXIV is so far the only MMORPG I've played where there is no tax system on LIMITED player housing. Asheron's Call and Archeage both required a monthly/2-week payment on rent that cost a portion of the price of the land itself. Fantastic gil sink, and I'd personally make it additive per-account. First house would be 5% of the purchase price a month in rent, second would be 25%, all the way up to 100% with a third and beyond. See how many people want to hoard houses when it costs them 20 million gil a month to keep.

Even make it so you could pay your rent 3 months ahead so people can take a break between patches and still have a house, if they can afford it. (Apartments, of course, would be kept as-is.)

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The shortage of housing is why you are limited to ONE house per account (unless you were grandfathered in) though something like this for people that own multiple houses on an account might clear up a bit of the market, making people choose which houses to keep and which to get rid of.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Meh, this only telling me someone is having issue with manage their wealth.

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Not necessarily. Much depends on the content you do. If you're only doing MSQ and not the repeatable side content, you're not going to make much gil.

My most recently deleted alt was a test to see how much gil I would make from doing MSQ and what I considered as essential content (job quests and Aether current quests). I only had one job on that character so there were no additional jobs to gear causing additional expense.

In raw gil (after teleport and repair fees) I had 1.2 million by the time I completed 5.0 (never did 5.1-5.55 on the character, that would have been another 200-250k raw gil based on post-HW and post-SB MSQ rewards). I made an additional 2.3 million gil from selling off quest rewards (Allagan silver pieces, gear, etc.), creature drops and rewards from retainer quick ventures. I did spend about 670k gil for gear upgrades when what I was getting out of MSQ fell behind what my character needed (primarily accessories since MSQ rarely provides those outside of coffers) but that gil came out of what I earned from selling off quest rewards.

Someone who's only doing MSQ, not additional side content, and leveling 2 jobs at the same time (easy enough to do only through MSQ with all the XP bonuses available) is going to have a hard time breaking 1.5 million gil by the time they're done with 5.55 even if they're limiting their spending. All those additional quest rewards I was using to increase the gil my character earned would have been getting used by the character instead.

The gil to build wealth comes from all the repeatable side content. Someone not doing that content won't have much gil.

Teleport fees still aren't a problem, of course. As I said, that 1.2 million gil was after teleport fees were deducted. Players do need to take a closer look at how they're spending their gil if they feel like they're always gil strapped.

I personally don't mind the higher teleport costs; they're needed Gil sinks too, at least in my opinion.

@Iscah: I saw the LL, but I actually think a youtuber (MrHappy?) might have made that as a joke remark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Meh, this only telling me someone is having issue with manage their wealth.

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I think it depends on how you level and where you are in the MSQ?
I'm hitting 80 on second job but still in late-HW content with less than 1mil in pocket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

My most recently deleted alt was a test to see[...]

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That is an interesting test.
Thanks for conducting it and sharing the results with us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiagenwa

I think it depends on how you level and where you are in the MSQ?
I'm hitting 80 on second job but still in late-HW content with less than 1mil in pocket.

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Pay for more SE approved bots. If you have max retainers quick ventures will net you millions a week just from quick ventures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Pay for more SE approved bots. If you have max retainers quick ventures will net you millions a week just from quick ventures.

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But they complain when I send them for venture... I don't like abusing my employees... :(

No one should be surprised Limsa Thots don't have any gil, since they don't do any content. Even doing a simple roulette will give you teleport gil for a few days.

While I don’t necessarily disagree with the OP’s post or concerns, I do feel that you have to look at the game through the lens of “doesn’t touch the market board or buy a house” if you’re going to judge the health of the faucet-to-sink economy, which is the only economy the game is obligated to build for. As someone who generally lives in that lens, I don’t feel the game is “greedy” once one has completed the MSQ. I can not justify investing in what is ultimately a temporary home from a player market ruined by veteran players, but that’s why apartments exist. When I want a glam item, I know I open the market board at my own risk, but that’s going beyond the devs’ purview.

Basically I’m saying that the housing market and the marketboard aren’t Squeenix’s responsibility, but if they want to turn a knob to eliminate some gil, there is absolutely some room for them to do so within the realm of teleport costs, IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Pay for more SE approved bots. If you have max retainers quick ventures will net you millions a week just from quick ventures.

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I still question what my retainers actually do when they go out on quick ventures.

They frequently come back with pieces of cottages, houses, and mansions, My crafter and gatherer retainers come back with stuff obtained from clearing trials. My combat job retainers come back with crafting materials that could only be obtained from other players or people that actual craft or gather things, etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I still question what my retainers actually do when they go out on quick ventures.

They frequently come back with pieces of cottages, houses, and mansions, My crafter and gatherer retainers come back with stuff obtained from clearing trials. My combat job retainers come back with crafting materials that could only be obtained from other players or people that actual craft or gather things, etc...

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What I would like to see for DoW is gear gathering. SE could tweak the amount of ventures, we get so many. But instead of running Crystal tower because you now want that one set of gloves. Poof venture retainers an hour later new gloves. I get as many or more greens as I do housing items. They bring HQ neo ishgardian, and I would swear I got normal quality exarchic item. But I for sure get 510 mats.