Fake FCs' Housing Abuse

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you don't have past experience with a person, you're not going to pick up on their text sarcasm. Some people are 100% serious about the things they say that others assume to be a joke.

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Or you can just suck at detecting the two and never really know when someone is being sarcastic so you assume serious when it's not.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Mission accomplished?

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I keep forgetting that people who think that sort of thing without a hint of irony genuinely exist.

Not all these FCs are in hand of gil farmers, that is just people overexaggerate it.
There are many reason why someone would try to get a FC house:

- A house for alternative character
- Want to experience GC submarine and airship venture (most FC restrict to core members only)
- Role play
- etc, etc.

It doesn't change one fact tho, they went through all obstacles to meet FC requirement and able to obtain a plot through log in war at every plot release.
To me, that is a dedication.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

- A house for alternative character

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This is why we need to have a house accessible to all characters on that server.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

- Want to experience GC submarine and airship venture (most FC restrict to core members only)

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And this is why I have been pushing for the workshop and garden functionality of the houses be made more generally available.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

- Role play

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You mean run an e-brothel?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

That might actually be a decent way out of this mess, as it would allow those in the shell FCs a way to unload their assets in a way that doesn't completely screw them over - provided that it's a limited time window thing, and not a permanent feature to the housing system otherwise that will resurrect some long dead problems.

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Honestly I'd be okay with a small window for this, and even paying an exorbitant fee to do this. Because I do get the ire people have due to people using shell FCs to own entire wards. I just don't want to give up the plot that my friends left for me because I missed the cut off for an easy plot transfer.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Honestly I'd be okay with a small window for this, and even paying an exorbitant fee to do this. Because I do get the ire people have due to people using shell FCs to own entire wards. I just don't want to give up the plot that my friends left for me because I missed the cut off for an easy plot transfer.

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There's two scenarios that I see here, specifically one where someone is in an FC, the FC fails (or they're with RL friends and they decide to stop playing and they want to retain the house), then it would make sense for them to transfer the FC house to a personal house, especially if the FC is dead and they aren't the type of player that likes recruiting or if they don't have the time to dedicate to the FC.

The other, however, is when a house flipper creates a shell FC that acquires a house, makes the new owner the leader of the FC, they transfer the FC to their personal house, and get a house that way.

The former I'm generally fine with, as the house is basically a keepsake of their time in Eorzea... the later shouldn't be happening.

Maybe we need a rethink of how FCs acquire houses?

I'm fine with FCs getting the permission of "contribute housing" that they can give to a specific rank so that a member of the FC can give their personal house to the FC. With that in place, and the restriction that an account can only have a house per server - and all characters on the server get a warp to the house (in the case of the grandfathered in characters, each character gets a warp location to each house owned across all the characters), that would allow for SE to turn off FCs from being able to buy houses because any FC member can contribute their personal house to the FC.

Following from that, if FC had an option for the FC leader to buy a Mogg Station item to transfer the house from the FC to their personal house (and the house would only be able to be converted if there are no FC rooms), that would allow for failed FCs to divest themselves of their houses in a more controlled manner, provided that the leader does not have a house on the server that is.

There's probably a better way to do that, but that's the current thoughts on it.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

You mean run an e-brothel?

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Why do you believe that every person that RPs in their house does it for cybering? There are tons of examples of other projects.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

Why do you believe that every person that RPs in their house does it for cybering? There are tons of examples of other projects.

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Running a pub, cafe, photo-studio, craft-shop, club, speakeasy, etc etc.

I may be against children being allowed into adult spaces, but that doesn't mean every RP space is an adult space. That also doesn't mean that every adult space is an adult space to ERP.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Running a pub, cafe, photo-studio, craft-shop, club, speakeasy, etc etc.

I may be against children being allowed into adult spaces, but that doesn't mean every RP space is an adult space. That also doesn't mean that every adult space is an adult space to ERP.

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I've got a clinic (personal), yurt (fc room) and I've been decorating my gf's fc as a ryokan. Would love to move my personal to a large though to make an Ishgardian estate with a ballroom on the ground floor with a big chandelier, get the most out of those cool large stairs...

Even mature and adult RP spaces aren't necessarily ERP; excessive violence, swearing, gore, horror, crime and plenty of other subjects qualify as adult without having anything to do with ERP.

more restrictions on Fc housing like they need to be in a FC for a period of time because its wayy to easy to abuse hence why i see so many wards owned by dead fcs and most wards have about 20 plots of deceased FCS of 0/2 online

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Originally Posted by Jirah

more restrictions on Fc housing like they need to be in a FC for a period of time because its wayy to easy to abuse hence why i see so many wards owned by dead fcs and most wards have about 20 plots of deceased FCS of 0/2 online

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What if a legit FC being created, working hard to hit rank 4 or whatever they need to hit to purchase a land and then they can't get a house. You would punish legit people too with your suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What if a legit FC being created, working hard to hit rank 4 or whatever they need to hit to purchase a land and then they can't get a house. You would punish legit people too with your suggestion.

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I think they mean not being able to pass on leadership to a newly joined member. Which is what is done to sell fc houses. The seller invites the buyer and instantly gives them fc leadership. Some people also use this process to pass leadership to an alt so their main can join another fc. If something like this was introduced I seriously doubt the period of being unable to be made leader would be long enough that by the time the fc reaches rank 6 they still can't purchase. Or perhaps SE would only introduce that restriction on passing leadership if the fc already has a house. We don't know because the feature literally doesn't exist. I wouldn't be opposed to a restriction like that if it was active only after the fc has a house.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I wouldn't be opposed to a restriction like that if it was active only after the fc has a house.

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I think that would be fair, if we ever would get that.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I think they mean not being able to pass on leadership to a newly joined member. Which is what is done to sell fc houses. The seller invites the buyer and instantly gives them fc leadership. Some people also use this process to pass leadership to an alt so their main can join another fc. If something like this was introduced I seriously doubt the period of being unable to be made leader would be long enough that by the time the fc reaches rank 6 they still can't purchase. Or perhaps SE would only introduce that restriction on passing leadership if the fc already has a house. We don't know because the feature literally doesn't exist. I wouldn't be opposed to a restriction like that if it was active only after the fc has a house.

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I could see a leadership pass restriction to an FC member that has been with the FC at least 60 days if they have a house. If the FC has failed in that amount of time, I'd bet it's probably a fatal FC failure and it will never recover.

Been toiling over this idea its not perfect and a little more complex then I would I like.

A House keeper rank. The rank would be smiliar to the FC LEAD, cant be removed only one person can hold it. The rank would unavaliable until you have become the leader of two or more fc's with homes that all reside on the same ------>ACCOUNT and WORLD<---. Soon as this as this happens all housing permissions: except furniture removal, relinquish, and estate settings would become locked for all Fc members. FC leader as well would lose them.

To restore them a member would need to be promoted to housekeeper rank. This would need to happen in all FC's belonging to said account the moment a second fc house is obtained.

Housekeeper rank would have restrictions as follows.

-Character must be level 50+
-Character cannot be on the FC leaders account.
- Only one character can hold Housekeeper rank per world per account.

Its not perfect and more complex then I would like. But it would make owning multiple FC homes a real pain in the rear.

This is so much toiling and headscratching to find a solution for something that can only be fixed by adding more housing.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

This is so much toiling and headscratching to find a solution for something that can only be fixed by adding more housing.

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You forgot the /s again....

Oh, and please kindly remove me from your sig.

It is simple, more restrictions is needed to have an FC, an activity meter or some kind of thing, if only one person not including alts logs in, that FC, would be prompted at some point for activity for an instance of the minimum required to create a FC with freequent activity from each player, and this is not including alts of the FC owner in it naturally, but by seperate accounts.

Could easy enough be a script for that that detect if doign content or gathering or whatever.. and would be prompted with a warning, if no success doing such and then a timer would start.

I as for one think it should have some actual active player requirements to have and hold an FC including FC house, and if can't present that, then the FC goes into sleep mode and the FC house plot will be made available or something, I can see why 1 person FC owners would be against this, but I can also see that this is a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game MMORPG... and in such regards it should be kept, with mentioned activity such as having an FC, also known as Guild/Clan.

Another idea that will hurt FC's more then help. Start a FC and try to recruit people you will lose more people then you gain. Most wont even hang around a week before leaving for a FC that is already established and active. It would also drive recruiting fc's to send more random invites and advertise in shout to greater levels then they already do.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Another idea that will hurt FC's more then help. Start a FC and try to recruit people you will lose more people then you gain. Most wont even hang around a week before leaving for a FC that is already established and active. It would also drive recruiting fc's to send more random invites and advertise in shout to greater levels then they already do.

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That's kinda the problem with the shell FCs... how do you rein those in without screwing over the legitimate FCs?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Another idea that will hurt FC's more then help. Start a FC and try to recruit people you will lose more people then you gain. Most wont even hang around a week before leaving for a FC that is already established and active. It would also drive recruiting fc's to send more random invites and advertise in shout to greater levels then they already do.

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That is like saying another good attempt to keep the scamers at bay? Also make the ToS very clear on that Ninja Invites to FC's when creating an FC to begin with, is prohibited, because it is, or make people aware of that you can report people for this kind of activity.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

That is like saying another good attempt to keep the scamers at bay? Also make the ToS very clear on that Ninja Invites to FC's when creating an FC to begin with, is prohibited, because it is, or make people aware of that you can report people for this kind of activity.

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You can report absolutely any type of behavior. Whether it's punishable is another matter. Even if someone is repeatedly spamming you with invites and you report them every time, they won't get punished unless they actually go around the blacklist function to do it. Otherwise, the GMs give you the same shitty copy pasted "blacklist disruptive players" nonsense. For a month, several mentors on Mateus NN reported someone that was posting sexual solicitation and racist messages in NN several times a day, constantly kicking the guy, and we were all given the same "blacklist disruptive players" shit every single time. The GMs seem to believe that if you don't block someone, that they clearly aren't so disruptive that it requires action being taken from their side.

tldr you're never going to succeed at stopping ninja invites

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

That is like saying another good attempt to keep the scamers at bay? Also make the ToS very clear on that Ninja Invites to FC's when creating an FC to begin with, is prohibited, because it is, or make people aware of that you can report people for this kind of activity.

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https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule Please point out where it says sending out FC invites to random people is a violation. :D Most you could call a invite is disruptive but as Arielen pointed out, unless the person is going out of their way to spam you with invites. You wont see a lick of action from the GM's, And nowhere does it say you have to ask someone before you send them a FC invite.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

That's kinda the problem with the shell FCs... how do you rein those in without screwing over the legitimate FCs?

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This is one problem I feel there is no good solution too. Even the solution I posted has its draw backs, in that not all players who are part of Mulitple FC's are using them to get more houses..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

This is one problem I feel there is no good solution too. Even the solution I posted has its draw backs, in that not all players who are part of Mulitple FC's are using them to get more houses..

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I'm looking at the entire thing with housing going "these greedy idiots are why we can't have anything nice".

And even when there is a solution to one problem it will often have unforeseen consequences (insert G Man here) because often you're trading one problem for another. The worse part about all of this is when someone on the forums thinks it's cute to quote you on one of these solutions, and then you proceed to get flamed whenever a new issue comes around, someone sees the quote, opens the thread, and adds their hatred towards you because they don't understand the historical context in which the original post was made. It's also why you should change your sig when you're quoting someone and they have requested that you don't quote them.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The worse part about all of this is when someone on the forums thinks it's cute to quote you on one of these solutions, and then you proceed to get flamed whenever a new issue comes around, someone sees the quote, opens the thread, and adds their hatred towards you because they don't understand the historical context in which the original post was made. It's also why you should change your sig when you're quoting someone and they have requested that you don't quote them.

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I have to say I'm not keen on that person adopting a quote of yours as a signature. The intention is clear; to draw attention to a suggestion you made so that others would blame you for a situation they do not like.

Regardless of how great or terrible your suggestion is SE are the ones who decided to bring that mechanic into the game, you didn't. You're not personally responsible for its existence. We don't even have confirmation that SE even read your suggestion. They could have come up with it themselves. It's not uncommon for multiple people to come up with similar ideas. Heh, just look at how many lotto threads there are to see proof of this.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

I'm looking at the entire thing with housing going "these greedy idiots are why we can't have anything nice".

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Well they're not entirely to blame, there aren't enough houses anyway. But they are needlessly making a bad situation worse. We really need proper instanced housing so that absolutely no one's actions can have any impact on your chances of getting a house. It's really the only way to fix everything.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Regardless of how great or terrible your suggestion is SE are the ones who decided to bring that mechanic into the game, you didn't. You're not personally responsible for its existence. We don't even have confirmation that SE even read your suggestion. They could have come up with it themselves. It's not uncommon for multiple people to come up with similar ideas. Heh, just look at how many lotto threads there are to see proof of this.

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As as logical as all that is... that thread is proof that none of that matters to the average forum goer... what's most frustrating is that there's a group of posters here that just want to shout down anyone they don't agree with... of which I'm fairly certain that the two posters that have that quote in their sig are a part of (and I'm fairly certain one of them have been moderated if not banned). They generally don't make positive contributions to conversation... just shoot people down and troll them.

If you look at the thread, you've got the revival of it by this group of posters almost three years to the day that the thread went dormant in 2017... which then died off for several months until fairly recently as it's likely someone got screwed over by the mechanic, and the cycle is going to keep repeating itself ad infinitum. It's why I (correctly) called that sig a form of harassment, as that's it's purpose and it's working rather well in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well they're not entirely to blame, there aren't enough houses anyway. But they are needlessly making a bad situation worse. We really need proper instanced housing so that absolutely no one's actions can have any impact on your chances of getting a house. It's really the only way to fix everything.

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That's also why I'm in favor of eliminating grandfathering after:

• Giving all alts on a server access to any and all houses owned by the player on that server
• Giving all houses the FC storage chest (which is similar to what LotRO does, but their housing storage capacity is determined by housing size)
• Giving us another way to garden (hopefully this is coming in Endbringers)
• Give everyone workshop access regardless of housing status
• Give everyone the option to get a house in an Ishgard NPC ward which should become the instanced housing ward (why are we displacing Ishgardians when it's clear they need the house more than we do?)

Once all of the above has been done, then (and only then) does it make sense to start talking about ending grandfathered housing. Additionally, all of this will also (indirectly) address part of the shell FC issue as it will reducing the desire for solo players to create an FC just to access things that are locked behind being in an FC.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well they're not entirely to blame, there aren't enough houses anyway. But they are needlessly making a bad situation worse. We really need proper instanced housing so that absolutely no one's actions can have any impact on your chances of getting a house. It's really the only way to fix everything.

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Agreed.

Timer or no, there wouldn't be enough housing, even if you removed grandfathered houses or nuked inactive or undersized FCs. The two things have little to do with each other, in a sense. That's why I think it's pointless to come up with band-aid fixes. We need Ishgard housing to come out, and we also need additional servers or whole DCs to compensate for a playerbase that is likely to increase come the new expansion.

As for instanced housing, they either lack of resources or willingness to expand on the apartment system. While it would be a perfect solution to our problems, that requires SE to want to go that route, and they like their silly neighborhood system.

To a certain point, I think that repeated suggestions are just venting; a lotto system wouldn't add enough houses, instanced housing has been seen and ignored, refused or worked on (would be nice to get more info on those islands), badgering about FCs and grandfathering is just as pointless.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

Agreed.

Timer or no, there wouldn't be enough housing, even if you removed grandfathered houses or nuked inactive or undersized FCs. The two things have little to do with each other, in a sense. That's why I think it's pointless to come up with band-aid fixes. We need Ishgard housing to come out, and we also need additional servers or whole DCs to compensate for a playerbase that is likely to increase come the new expansion.

As for instanced housing, they either lack of resources or willingness to expand on the apartment system. While it would be a perfect solution to our problems, that requires SE to want to go that route, and they like their silly neighborhood system.

To a certain point, I think that repeated suggestions are just venting; a lotto system wouldn't add enough houses, instanced housing has been seen and ignored, refused or worked on (would be nice to get more info on those islands), badgering about FCs and grandfathering is just as pointless.

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Someone in another thread said the devs touched on why they didnt use instance housing. Answer was because of how the backbone of the game is designed it cant handle it properly, apparently they did test it out in house. The results were massive lag and game crashes caused by the instanced housing.I am going to take a guess and say their storage issues alongside how this game handles instancing to began with is what caused it.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Someone in another thread said the devs touched on why they didnt use instance housing. Answer was because of how the backbone of the game is designed it cant handle it properly, apparently they did test it out in house. The results were massive lag and game crashes caused by the instanced housing.I am going to take a guess and say their storage issues alongside how this game handles instancing to began with is what caused it.

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It might be worth looking into that again... if sufficient time has passed the servers likely have more processing power, faster storage, and more RAM at their disposal now than when they did it the last time so... maybe results are different?

That and some of the game infrastructure may be different.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Someone in another thread said the devs touched on why they didnt use instance housing. Answer was because of how the backbone of the game is designed it cant handle it properly, apparently they did test it out in house. The results were massive lag and game crashes caused by the instanced housing.I am going to take a guess and say their storage issues alongside how this game handles instancing to began with is what caused it.

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House interiors are instanced.

FC private chambers are instanced.

Apartments are instanced.

Clearly instanced housing does not cause servers to crash now, if it ever did.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

House interiors are instanced.

FC private chambers are instanced.

Apartments are instanced.

Clearly instanced housing does not cause servers to crash now, if it ever did.

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Think they might be referring to the 1.0 housing logon/logoff issues?

I only bought my FC for the Subs and Airships. If these were offered to individuals then I could care less about the FC or the size of the house

Never said server said game crash. Servers also have a limit to how many instances they can handle or have we all forgotten yhe start of stormblood.

Was not refencing 1.0 housing nor was the post I read. SE system simply has issues with the type of instancing housing people want.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Never said server said game crash. Servers also have a limit to how many instances they can handle or have we all forgotten yhe start of stormblood.

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And they managed to fix it in a few days. Clearly the reason why we don't have instanced housing isn't as simple as "the servers can't handle so many instances".

And as Jojoya said there are already many instanced aspects of housing and they work fine. The interior of every single house, fc room and apartment is an instance. Also during Raubahn savage I had no problems using housing. So housing is not even using the same clusters of instance servers as duties.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And they managed to fix it in a few days. Clearly the reason why we don't have instanced housing isn't as simple as "the servers can't handle so many instances".

And as Jojoya said there are already many instanced aspects of housing and they work fine. The interior of every single house, fc room and apartment is an instance. Also during Raubahn savage I had no problems using housing. So housing is not even using the same clusters of instance servers as duties.

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I am just relaying what I read, you also quouted me completely wrong. Fact remains they wont add the housing system people want, Biggest factor stopping them I would say is storage. Their adding more servers to help increase the amount of housing avaliable. Still wont give everyone a home or FC home..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Never said server said game crash. Servers also have a limit to how many instances they can handle or have we all forgotten yhe start of stormblood.

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Sure there's a limit on how many instances a server can have active at any given moment but a player can only be in one instance at a time. If SE was continuing to have a problem with instance server capacity, they wouldn't have added Trust or Exploration mode which increases instance server usage.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Sure there's a limit on how many instances a server can have active at any given moment but a player can only be in one instance at a time. If SE was continuing to have a problem with instance server capacity, they wouldn't have added Trust or Exploration mode which increases instance server usage.

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Post above explains clearly why the housing players want to see wont happen. Storage!! SE adding more servers is only a band aid solution

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Post above explains clearly why the housing players want to see wont happen. Storage!! SE adding more servers is only a band aid solution

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If expanding storage was that much of a problem, players wouldn't be allowed to create new characters at all and SE would be wiping characters that are inactive for a certain amount of time instead of players being able to return to the game 4 years later to a character who has an inventory full of junk that's no longer useful for game play. They wouldn't have increased the number of wards over the years nor would they have been adding new housing districts.

I agree that adding more servers to add more wards is just a bandaid, not a solution. All the more reason to keep asking for solutions, especially when we've seen those solutions work successfully in other games. I don't think there's another MMO on the market that has anywhere close to the housing drama that this game has because they chose systems that allow all of their players to obtain housing if they want while this one hasn't. Somehow those other MMOs don't seem to be concerned about the storage related to housing despite giving all their players access to it (and sometimes even multiple housing locations per character).

Storage as an excuse does not make sense.