Regarding Firmament Titles For 5.3

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Originally Posted by Malakii

PVP mounts are sacred and not coming back so the title is not coming back. New title incoming. Old title is sacred can't touch it. Get ready to compete again. Or don't who care you cant collect everything in the game anyways.

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except this is not pvp

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

except this is not pvp

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lol this was sarcasm, no digital content should be locked behind a time period. This is just dumb gatekeeping. I do think its interesting people care so much about a title but the pvp mounts are w/e seems like hypocrisy, but w/e. Especially when the title has such negative connotations around it that is just a bunch of botters.

seriously SE asking a question that they already know the answer there's only limited number of people who gey the title last time and ofc all the others million don't want to get locked up from the title, and then there's those who don't want participate again. do they even need to asl what the communiyu want? i lose my respect for yoshida for this...

my main is 11th last time and i don't want to get locked out of the next leader board just because the title is the same, sobplease change it, even if it's just adding something like "second season of" no need big change, thank you.

please don't lock people who actually playing the game of the next leaderboard and favouring the millions of "i want to get it SOMEDAY so please don't change the title"

ps. the reason i want to enter the next leader board is i havent got my 500k mount, and i rather grind it in ranking instead of nothing, and i do like repeated chore, so...

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Originally Posted by Malakii

lol this was sarcasm, no digital content should be locked behind a time period.

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I'm perfectly fine with locked content, but not when SE says the exact opposite will happen.

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Originally Posted by Angellos

A poll has been started on twitter and I thought that I would drop it here as it is in regards to the topic at hand:

https://twitter.com/Pixel_Thiefy/sta...99004643643394

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I think that's poorly worded as a poll.
SE said there'd be no reason to re-rank, not that you couldn't.
Unless I missed something.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I think that's poorly worded as a poll.
SE said there'd be no reason to re-rank, not that you couldn't.
Unless I missed something.

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Yeah, you missed something big.

Yoshi originally said that those who rank in the top 12 (Those who obtain the Saint of the Firmament title) will not be ELIGIBLE to compete in future seasons of the Ishgardian Restoration.

He also stated that the titles/achievements for the competition will always remain the same.

Now, at the last minute, he has changed his mind: The titles are different, the achievements are different, and now former saints are eligible to participate all over again.

This is basically saying:

The no lifers, try hards, and botters will always rank in the top 12 and no one else has a chance. Good luck."

And this feels awful. They should stick to how they said the contest would work originally, not change the rules of the game at the last second.

EDIT: By changing the titles and achievements, that IS giving everyone a reason to 're-rank'. So that's still going against what he said, in either version of what was said.

When this is all said and done: I am not someone who failed to make it into the top 12. I was still in the top 10 and I had stopped altogether the last two days of the contest. I have plenty of time to devote to doing so again. I could pull all nighters, I could get three hours of sleep a day and I could eat nothing but microwavable food to keep going for another ten days again - Sure. I could absolutely make it into the top twelve once more.

The fact of the matter is that I shouldn't be -able- to compete again, and to knock out all of those other people that I knocked out of the contest the first time.

I would say that the titles should remain the same so that no one had a reason to participate again but as I've come to learn some very SELFISH people want to participate again just to 'beat their own score' or 'win on another character'.

If you have this mentality: That you want to compete yet again, even though you've already won the last competition: You are selfish. I was glad to see Yoshi was stopping selfish people from participating again, but now they want to allow those very selfish people the opportunity to beat out everyone else who doesn't have as much time as we do (again.) Giving the people who have jobs and responsibilities NO chance at winning a title. going back on their word.

People (Like me, but NOT me) will absolutely go for these new titles. 'Saint Ascendant' sounds like you're even more prestigious than 'Saint of the Firmament.' - so of course people will want the new title. They'll want to compete all over again. They'll no-life, try hard all over again. We'll feel pressured, into competing all over again. I took some solace in knowing I 'did my time'. I put in my hard work, and that I wouldn't feel like I had to do that all over again!

98% of people in this thread hate the idea of different titles. 98% of Saints in this thread feel as though we should not be able to participate again. We're not 'sore losers' here complaining about the Saints winning: We are SAINTS saying we shouldn't be able to win again! That should say something

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

except this is not pvp

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Technically, it is. Just a different kind of PvP. I would classify housing the same way. Not PvP in a traditional sense but still a type of PvP.

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Originally Posted by Angellos

When this is all said and done: I am not someone who failed to make it into the top 12. I was still in the top 10 and I had stopped altogether the last two days of the contest. I have plenty of time to devote to doing so again. I could pull all nighters, I could get three hours of sleep a day and I could eat nothing but microwavable food to keep going for another ten days again - Sure. I could absolutely make it into the top twelve once more.

The fact of the matter is that I shouldn't be -able- to compete again, and to knock out all of those other people that I knocked out of the contest the first time.

I would say that the titles should remain the same so that no one had a reason to participate again but as I've come to learn some very SELFISH people want to participate again just to 'beat their own score' or 'win on another character'.

If you have this mentality: That you want to compete yet again, even though you've already won the last competition: You are selfish. I was glad to see Yoshi was stopping selfish people from participating again, but now they want to allow those very selfish people the opportunity to beat out everyone else who doesn't have as much time as we do (again.) Giving the people who have jobs and responsibilities NO chance at winning a title. going back on their word.

People (Like me, but NOT me) will absolutely go for these new titles. 'Saint Ascendant' sounds like you're even more prestigious than 'Saint of the Firmament.' - so of course people will want the new title. They'll want to compete all over again. They'll no-life, try hard all over again. We'll feel pressured, into competing all over again. I took some solace in knowing I 'did my time'. I put in my hard work, and that I wouldn't feel like I had to do that all over again!

98% of people in this thread hate the idea of different titles. 98% of Saints in this thread feel as though we should not be able to participate again. We're not 'sore losers' here complaining about the Saints winning: We are SAINTS saying we shouldn't be able to win again! That should say something

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If the titles change. I will 100% be doing it again. Because of my love for Ishgard and because of crafting. If they stay the same. I'm gonna work on the new stuff they release outside of Firmament. Plain and simple. However. Judging others and the decision others make on the subject isn't something you should do. You aren't going to do it if they stay the same, change, what have you? Good on you. But to each their own in any regard. It's a stupid decisions that they are *wanting* to make and that's the entire purpose of this thread. But no. 98% do not feel we should not be able to participate again. That's just false. They feel as though the titles should stay the same based on what we were told. And they have indeed stated if it does change, they will be going for the new titles. Because that is only logical.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

If the titles change. I will 100% be doing it again. Because of my love for Ishgard and because of crafting. If they stay the same. I'm gonna work on the new stuff they release outside of Firmament. Plain and simple. However. Judging others and the decision others make on the subject isn't something you should do. You aren't going to do it if they stay the same, change, what have you? Good on you. But to each their own in any regard. It's a stupid decisions that they are *wanting* to make and that's the entire purpose of this thread. But no. 98% do not feel we should not be able to participate again. That's just false. They feel as though the titles should stay the same based on what we were told. And they have indeed stated if it does change, they will be going for the new titles. Because that is only logical.

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You, are the 2%.

Everyone else has pretty much stated that they 1. Do not want to compete again because it was unhealthy 2. Said they don't want to compete again or feel compelled to compete again 3. Don't think the titles should change 4. Yoshi had said that those who made top 12 wouldn't be eligible to compete again and they want him to stay true to that word. 5. That the titles/achievements would be the same every competition and we don't want that to change. 6. That we want to give others a chance to win the title, others with less time than we have.

But, you are exactly the type of person that our argument talks about. Those who will win every single season and those who don't care about others having a chance. That is why those who have already made top 12 don't need to compete again, and why the titles should remain the same.

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Originally Posted by Angellos

You, are the 2%.

Everyone else has pretty much stated that they 1. Do not want to compete again because it was unhealthy 2. Said they don't want to compete again or feel compelled to compete again 3. Don't think the titles should change 4. Yoshi had said that those who made top 12 wouldn't be eligible to compete again and they want him to stay true to that word. 5. That the titles/achievements would be the same every competition and we don't want that to change. 6. That we want to give others a chance to win the title, others with less time than we have.

But, you are exactly the type of person that our argument talks about. Those who will win every single season and those who don't care about others having a chance. That is why those who have already made top 12 don't need to compete again, and why the titles should remain the same.

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Umm, I feel like you don't realize that Lecru was the one who started this thread to emphasize that the majority of people who actually participate don't want the titles changed.

Most of your points are among what he has stated, except the whole "saints will not participate even with new titles" to which he disagreed. And I know that quite a few people who hold "saint" will participate again if there is a new title/achievement, precisely because it is different. Even if they themselves dislike the grind as much as anyone else. It's not about being selfish, it's just a new rare thing that a limited amount of people can obtain that no one has yet, and everyone is eligible for.

The real problem is that I cannot find anywhere that Yoshi P directly stated that those who won titles before would be no longer eligible for ranking in future seasons. The best I can find is that he said those who won titles would no longer have a good reason to rank.

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Originally Posted by Angellos

You, are the 2%.

Everyone else has pretty much stated that they 1. Do not want to compete again because it was unhealthy 2. Said they don't want to compete again or feel compelled to compete again 3. Don't think the titles should change 4. Yoshi had said that those who made top 12 wouldn't be eligible to compete again and they want him to stay true to that word. 5. That the titles/achievements would be the same every competition and we don't want that to change. 6. That we want to give others a chance to win the title, others with less time than we have.

But, you are exactly the type of person that our argument talks about. Those who will win every single season and those who don't care about others having a chance. That is why those who have already made top 12 don't need to compete again, and why the titles should remain the same.

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Negative. They do not WANT to. But if they make NEW titles. They WILL do it again for new rewards. That is what everyone is saying. Not just here. The VAST MAJORITY though is agreeing they should keep them the same. Therefore not giving us reason to do it again. You really need to go back and look at what has been said and what I myself said. You seem to be highly confused here

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Umm, I feel like you don't realize that Lecru was the one who started this thread to emphasize that the majority of people who actually participate don't want the titles changed.

Most of your points are among what he has stated, except the whole "saints will not participate even with new titles" to which he disagreed. And I know that quite a few people who hold "saint" will participate again if there is a new title/achievement, precisely because it is different. Even if they themselves dislike the grind as much as anyone else. It's not about being selfish, it's just a new rare thing that a limited amount of people can obtain that no one has yet, and everyone is eligible for.

The real problem is that I cannot find anywhere that Yoshi P directly stated that those who won titles before would be no longer eligible for ranking in future seasons. The best I can find is that he said those who won titles would no longer have a good reason to rank.

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Thank you. I was quite literally posting when you replied. He also didn't state that. It seems to just be a thing they think should happen.

Title should stay same, simply because of health issues - I know some people would go insane for them. And well, they announced they stay same at the start.

And generally would have been nice to get lower tier pvp titles within a season as well, in case you got the higher one rewarded, similar how the crafting season gave out multiple titles. But that's gonna stay forever the same lol.

The opinion of the dev team to change the titles because "not doing so devalues the titles of the last round" is preposterous. You tout the number of players in the game reaching what, 20 million subscribers? Spread across all the different data centers and worlds therein, only 100 players will get a title from this, and of those only 12 will get a more "advanced" title.

Regardless of other points and merits made about "going back on your word," the logic of wanting to "maintain the prestige of the titles" is already erroneous enough at best given the sheer mass of players vying for a ranking.

Please do not go through with this decision.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

The opinion of the dev team to change the titles because "not doing so devalues the titles of the last round" is preposterous. You tout the number of players in the game reaching what, 20 million subscribers? Spread across all the different data centers and worlds therein, only 100 players will get a title from this, and of those only 12 will get a more "advanced" title.

Regardless of other points and merits made about "going back on your word," the logic of wanting to "maintain the prestige of the titles" is already erroneous enough at best given the sheer mass of players vying for a ranking.

Please do not go through with this decision.

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Oh honey no. 20 million do not subscribe. 20 million accounts have been made. It's not the same thing xD

Further. We look to them to keep their word on things. A TEN DAY "competition" for a title, telling us we won't have to do anything like it again if we succeed the first time, is a dick move no matter what way you slice it. Factor in the fact that even the smallest of breaks could put you down near the bottom or off the charts thanks to bots. And it's even worse. Now. That being said. If they kept it the same. But yeah. Those numbers I wish tehy would be a little more truthful about as far as what they mean. WoW does the same thing

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Originally Posted by Lecru

Oh honey no. 20 million do not subscribe. 20 million accounts have been made. It's not the same thing xD

Further. We look to them to keep their word on things. A TEN DAY "competition" for a title, telling us we won't have to do anything like it again if we succeed the first time, is a dick move no matter what way you slice it. Factor in the fact that even the smallest of breaks could put you down near the bottom or off the charts thanks to bots. And it's even worse. Now. That being said. If they kept it the same. But yeah. Those numbers I wish tehy would be a little more truthful about as far as what they mean. WoW does the same thing

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on the first point i know. I know saying "we have 20 million players!" is more for the shareholders.

I am generally not a fan of FOMO, and when combined with Yoshida's policy of "it's okay to take a break" whilst also running content like this, where less people will earn these titles than Ultimate clear title holders? Not a fan of this.

I consider myself lucky to have placed at all round 1, and even with new titles i'm already not planning to put in any effort because it's a lot of work for little pay off. Shouldn't have gone through with this decision either way is all i'm saying.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

on the first point i know. I know saying "we have 20 million players!" is more for the shareholders.

I am generally not a fan of FOMO, and when combined with Yoshida's policy of "it's okay to take a break" whilst also running content like this, where less people will earn these titles than Ultimate clear title holders? Not a fan of this.

I consider myself lucky to have placed at all round 1, and even with new titles i'm already not planning to put in any effort because it's a lot of work for little pay off. Shouldn't have gone through with this decision either way is all i'm saying.

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Oh I completely agree. I feel terrible for those that just didn't try because they were told it'd be the same and could try the next time. Or for some reason couldn't continue and stopped because they thought the same thing

I agree with most others that adding a new title is odd and goes back on what SE originally said. I got top 3 alchemist and got my top 12 title in the first go. I figured I could be happy with that, back off on the crafting and let others have a chance at the title the next season. Now, there's another title that I'm going to feel compelled to grind for.

I'm thinking they did it because they fear people won't craft enough for the next stage of the Firmament or something. Even though people will grind it out like crazy no matter what. Easiest thing to do would be to just not allow those who got top 12 the first time to not get it again, but keep the title the same for future players.

Now, those players are going to be pushed out by the hardcore crafters again.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I'm thinking they did it because they fear people won't craft enough for the next stage of the Firmament or something. Even though people will grind it out like crazy no matter what.

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Despite adding so many glamour options to the game, they seem to underestimate just how much people will grind for something as simple as an umbrella or a pair of pants at times.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Now, those players are going to be pushed out by the hardcore crafters again.

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That, or bots. :\

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Originally Posted by Canadane

That, or bots. :\

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Honestly it'll probably be bots. Even though I don't thnk they can 100% the crafts reliably. So the hardcore might still hold the edge

Bots can defeat legit crafters with a quantity > quality approach by just buying thousands of cheap mats then spamming a macro that barely scrapes minimum quality for several hours a day (And I already noticed some of the usual suspects on my server doing such both during the rankings and after). Which is partly why I wish they made it so that there's no cap to how much collectability/points you can get from an expert craft as it would make manual crafting even more rewarding.

I really doubt that they haven't managed to work out a logic that produces considerably better results then a macro by now, though.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I really doubt that they haven't managed to work out a logic that produces considerably better results then a macro by now, though.

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Comments I found from a quick google search (won't post links to sites that break ToS)

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"-New Crafting Solver algorithm is in the final stage of optimization.
The next update will contain 70+ crafting abilities and 80*** Expert Recipes support. It will be released in a few days.

-80*** Expert Recipes are supported.

-Thank you again, <removed> developers, for this update. As of today I managed to finish all 8 crafting classes for the 500k score achievement."

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Honestly, this is beyond a joke now.

As someone who was also able to rank as a Top 12 in the first period:
I don't want to do this again. I don't want to sit around for hours on end flying in a circle. It's not fun, it's not healthy and it certainly wasn't what was told to us in the beginning when the rankings came out.

I started reading the whole thread but stopped mid way because the same arguments are being repeated again, so I'll just throw this on top of the pile hoping it will help (splitting in several posts due to character limit):

Please don't change the titles.

A. People who already got top 12 will do everything to get into top 12 again, this has been confirmed by several people here and on other platforms.

B. Players who didn't get to compete or get to top 12 were hopeful to get a chance this time and had made plans based on previous statements regarding titles and seasons. This new announcement makes all their plans crumble to dust because of A and the new bot wave that several people have mentioned already.

C. Even if it the various statements previously made by YoshiP and the team can be interpreted differently depending on the translation (something people tried to argue here) the descriptions of achievements and the item to get them objectively state what the intentions were:

Writ of Beatification
Use to gain the “Divine Ascension” achievement for Season One.

Divine Ascension
Place between 1st and 12th in the skybuilder rankings.
Title: Saint of the Firmament

Please note the absence of "for Season One" in the description of Divine Ascension.
All the achievements exclusive to the second stage include "for the second phase of the Ishgardian restoration" in their description.
It is therefore logical that the titles were originally intended to be non-exclusive, and based on these descriptions alone people have planned and expected for the titles to stay the same.

D. Crafting points might have been based on skill/efficiency, but Gathering points there's only so much you can do to be more efficient, and then it all comes down to how much time you have to spend in Diadem (and luck in the case of Fisher). It's creating a real gap between people who simply don't have time to play 24h/24 (because they work, study, or don't have the health conditions to do so) and players who can. Again, it's not ranking based on skill or knowledge, it's ranking based on personal time and health. Here's something YoshiP said about respecting people's time and health a while back.

(1/4)

E. It just doesn't make any sense that PvP titles based on crafting and gathering (and time and health as mentioned in D) would be exclusive, when the Feast titles are not. Sure Feast has exclusive rewards for each season, and it's often the same people at the top (coincidence?). But it's also a lot more skill based (I won't deny you need a lot of time as well) and even if you don't get to top 1, 10 or 100 you still get Wolf Collars and a title (the same for every season) if you've climbed high enough in tiers. So why should this be any different when skill isn't even part of the equation for some jobs?
(Side note: there's lots to be said about the Feast ranking and matchmaking systems and how it's detrimental to new challengers when previous top rankers still sit at the top tiers at the beginning of a new season, but that's a debate for another time)


F. As a completionist myself, I'm really against unique titles, items, emotes and achievements you'll have no chance to obtain ever again because you simply were not there at the right time with the right resources. Every single time I go in Diadem I think about how the previous Diadem achievements and Notorious Monster Slayer title have disappeared and how little notice we were given to try to get them before that.
It does make a lot of sense for Legacy achievements and titles (to show you're a veteran player and supported SE throughout these times), or for actual PvP like Feast (and The Feast Regional Championships 2018 titles) but otherwise I think there should be a system put in place to get those limited items/titles/etc some other way, the way seasonal items are put on Mog Station/FFXIV Online Store one year after their respective event, or reintroduced through new achievements and events.
I'm really happy that the Dragon Quest and Yo-kai Watch events are coming back because I couldn't get those rewards back then either because I wasn't playing the game yet or I couldn't for personal reasons. The various Moogle Treasure Trove events are also great for this reason! But I'd also love to get a chance to obtain the Shiva and Ultima emotes, the minions you get with artbooks and CDs, and all those exclusive things that we can't get anymore at the moment. I care a lot more about the in-game items/titles/emotes than the merchandising and it's just sad when you can't get them anymore because it was a limited release or you just can't afford to spend this much money on top of your subscription.

(2/4)

G. Some people just want titles for the glamour and roleplay. I personally want Saint of the Firmament for my AST because it fits really well with the image I have of this job and its relation to Ishgard. Saint Ascendant isn't too bad either for my case but I'm sure others wouldn't be as tolerant. I was planning to get this title for this reason and prepared accordingly, so suddenly learning this wasn't an option anymore was really disappointing.


There are tons of other arguments to be made, but I'd also like to consider why they want to introduce this change in the first place, and what could be put in place instead:

1. Keep the competition high
I think this is something that will happen either way, because now people know what the rewards are and are interested in them (something that wasn't the case at the beginning of Season One, I only started competing after the rewards were announced). And if the hardcore players already got their rewards, the people who didn't bother to try to rank up because they didn't want to compete against them will be more likely to compete in next seasons. There's also going to be tons of new players coming with the new free trial expansion and the current 50% sale on Shadowbringers.

2. Keep a steady pace for the restoration progress on each server
It's no secret that some servers (Spriggan, Twintania) were really behind with restoration (mostly due to a lower population and less interest in crafting), and I could see that being discouraging for players on those servers, and an issue the dev team would like to solve. I think it's possible some players may move their characters to less populated servers to be able to compete against less players, so this could solve part of the issue as well. It's also worth noting that during the first stage of the restoration the issue was opposite, the whole data center would raid every server for their FATEs, not giving a chance to local players to join their own restoration effort.
What I think would solve the former without creating the latter is to introduce a "Firmament Mentorship" system where once the ranking season is over and your server has finished all the restoration steps you can apply to help other servers with their progress (with a limited amount of mentors per server). The skyward points would be added to the progress bar of the server in question as well as your personal score, and you are not allowed to enter the instance when a FATE is scheduled. You just progress towards your own score (to eventually reach 500k points in every job, something some players have already achieved and others are currently working on anyway), while helping other servers with their progress, without making it impossible for local players to do their part. I can't see any disadvantage to such a system as of yet, only benefits for both struggling servers and mentors who just want to get up to 500k points and farm scrips.

(3/4)

3. Reward hardcore crafters for their hard work
They already got their reward in Season One, and if not they will get it in Season Two either way. Omnicrafters are also leading the Marketboard and have been making tons of profit everyday regardless of the rankings, so I think it's really time to let other, less experienced people get their chance. We're talking about a small percentage of players who are already profiting from the vast majority, it may not be as glorious and visible as a Feast title but their efforts are already rewarded in other ways.

This ended up being way longer than I wanted and given how the Diadem thread never got a reaction I have no idea if this will have any impact, but at least I got this out of my chest on a platform the dev team can read lol

(4/4)

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Comments I found from a quick google search (won't post links to sites that break ToS)

Honestly, this is beyond a joke now.

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I find it cute how they say "managed" as though they felt there was some kind of effort involved.

As someone who's trying to get the pteranodon legit, it seriously pisses me off that there are so many people out there are going to get it before me or already have it because of their cheating.

They can't take away the feeling of satisfaction from knowing I got through a honest effort, but they kill the other half of its value which is the prestige factor.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I find it cute how they say "managed" as though they felt there was some kind of effort involved.

As someone who's trying to get the pteranodon legit, it seriously pisses me off that there are so many people out there are going to get it before me or already have it because of their cheating.

They can't take away the feeling of satisfaction from knowing I got through a honest effort, but they kill the other half of its value which is the prestige factor.

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Meanwhile. I have reported quite a few botters/third party users on Excalibur to this day. Along with a Gil seller WITH PROOF on all of them and they did nothing, absolutely NOTHING to them. They are still active and running as we speak. I even pissed one of them off so bad that they started stalking my FC house and even came inside it and harassed my members. Nothing was done. Sad truth of the matter is the GM's have just gone lax on doing anything about the reports. But we're suppose to sit here and be okay with them changing stuff like this

For some reason you seem to believe everyone can play a lot of hours a day and that every server has the same chances of winning this sorta thing. For your reference I gathered for at least 6 hours a day. If i had no work it was 18 hours. So yeah i shouldve had a good chance at these titles. If it werent for other people that dedicated more hours. Remember some of us had to work during covid lockdown.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I don't think I ever crafted more than 3 hours a day during this event so you must play very few hours and still expect to earn pvp seasonal titles for some reason.

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But glad you got your top 12 with only 3 hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Lecru

Honestly it'll probably be bots. Even though I don't thnk they can 100% the crafts reliably. So the hardcore might still hold the edge

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Nah the hardcores will still need breaks. Bots dont pee, eat, sleep, brainfart etc.

from what i know bots can't make the highest quality of expert at that time idk now, the difference point is 24 hour bots is compareable with 2-3 hours of crafting or even just 1 hour of some super people that hide their rotation, thus who say they can't win because of bots is just an excuse.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

from what i know bots can't make the highest quality of expert at that time idk now, the difference point is 24 hour bots is compareable with 2-3 hours of crafting or even just 1 hour of some super people that hide their rotation, thus who say they can't win because of bots is just an excuse.

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Someone already quoted a statement from one of their websites that they do actually have an algorithm that allows them to consistently max collectability on expert recipes given favorable RNG.

Which further suggests to me that no countermeasures short of just aggressively hunting them down and banning them is actually going to accomplish anything (At least in the case of DoH/L bots that are not easily replaced).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I find it cute how they say "managed" as though they felt there was some kind of effort involved.

As someone who's trying to get the pteranodon legit, it seriously pisses me off that there are so many people out there are going to get it before me or already have it because of their cheating.

They can't take away the feeling of satisfaction from knowing I got through a honest effort, but they kill the other half of its value which is the prestige factor.

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I agree wholeheartedly. I've been working on and off for the mount (I can only craft and gather so much at a time - what I did for Top 12 wasn't healthy and I can't repeat that for a mount). That people "managed" to the get 500k points in everything while cheating - they didn't do anything. All htey did was run a script. It does anger me that SE won't (or can't) do anything about cheaters. It won't take away my own satisfaction when I do get the mount, but it's just stupid about the bots.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Someone already quoted a statement from one of their websites that they do actually have an algorithm that allows them to consistently max collectability on expert recipes given favorable RNG.

Which further suggests to me that no countermeasures short of just aggressively hunting them down and banning them is actually going to accomplish anything (At least in the case of DoH/L bots that are not easily replaced).

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they claim they have it now not back then when season 1 is open, season one top crafter and mostly if not all real player, some may be doing account shring for this, but i doubt there's any bot in there, i'll believe you if you can show me the bot that can make a full point expert recipe, and they claim they have it but who knows it will work on season 2 recipe or not? the recipe gonna change so does the equipment needed.

gatherer however is a different story, i admit its a botting diadem there

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Originally Posted by Miminming

i'll believe you if you can show me the bot that can make a full point expert recipe

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No one is going to "show" you a bot on the official forum.

The core mechanics of Expert crafting are very unlikely to change, they'll just increase in stats. Adjusting the bot to that will be a very simple matter. The next season won't be out until midway through 5.3, giving botters all the time in the world to get their gear ready. If you honestly think next season will be bot-free and a test of skill you're deluding yourself.

Even the fact that you can bot your way to the 500k achievement mount is disgusting enough.