Well, they actually did it, the absolute madmen

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Gula please forgive me for strawmaning you, I was reading someone else’s comments into yours and that was not fair to you.

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/shrug

These posts will be drowned out with the next after work/school wave of posts anyhow. I don't doubt the same back and forth will repeat with others.

Can they add a hard and very hard difficulty now? I would like to try and beat some of these fights on nightmare! mode.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

I want to preface this by saying I am a casual scrub. In fact, to call me a casual scrub would be a compliment. I am by no means a great player, but I am competent...

Have we really reached the point where we're now actively catering to players who cannot be bothered to learn their jobs, read their tooltips, and actually press buttons?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...313_Chrome.jpg

I understand brand new players having difficulty learning the ropes in the first few levels of the game, and I love guiding new players on their paths, but when a small number of people are complaining about not being able to smash a solo duty at level 70... LEVEL SEVENTY... when everyone else can clear it with absolute ease, and those people are catered to instead of suggesting they simply learn their role...

"But if you can clear these fights easily, why do you care?" I hear you cry.

Because when people are given an easy option to clear already basic content, this spills over into Duty Finder, which on Chaos DC is already a sea of Ice Mages, zero-DPS healers, Tanks who only pull one mob at a time, and Paladins who insist on using Clemency on themselves at 95% HP.

Duty Finder gets filled with the kind of players who aren't pushed to learn their job properly, or even to a competent level, and then everyone suffers.

Guess it looks like I'll be running content with my FC in future, because wew lads.

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Ok...? 1. I could've sworn it was only for quests you're doing in New Game+

2. Is...is this really something we should be concerned about?

Yeah dude, if you literally read the text at the bottom it says "upon defeat or when replaying the battle" it's still going to make you do the regular difficulty first.

Ok that was something that i didnt have a problem up until now, but why overcasualising?

Imagine having such huge buildup for fights like 4.56 fight, or maybe rp instance and one of the last normal ones in 5.0, and then just destroying it with 100% buff. I think having 20/50% would be enough for easy/very easy (tho might still be too much), but come on, 100% is just practically nothing to fight. You could just make "Skip" option at this point to just not have any fight at all. It would be still enough for people that dont want to "gitgud"

It might be just me, but i dont see the point in story if story becomes anticlimactic on the more important fights.

Oh, you are about to fight someone who is much stronger than you? The one that rekt you several times during story, yknow. Naturally even with your progression throughout the story you should still have a challenge ahead. Not be almost invincible against something deleted you hour ago.

Fights are already pretty easy on their own. RP instances are anything but hard. They are not hard, they are long. Normal fights are just hitting a dummy with sometimes avoiding forgiving (sometimes very forgiving) damage, and dps checks that shouldnt be an issue if you have decent gear (which you should have, having gear 10+ levels below decent is not only making your life harder, it also means not respecting people that you do content with) and if you know what is your job (im sorry, but if you are going as dps in 4.56 fight with good gear and you cant to clear dps check - its not devs' fault). The only instance you could call "hard" would be the one against Sadu, since its not fully apparent for the first time (i failed that one 4 or 5 times, and i welcomed a challenge, since it was a fun fight), and even then, once you learn what is going on, its easy.

If people are playing just for housing - ask sqex to add just sandbox server where everyone starts as char with 80lvl on all crafters and gatherers. Remove story, dungeons, all that nonsense, and make everything made from crafting/gathering. Cuz thats what you want from final fantasy game right?

Want story without making any effort? Youtube vids exist.

At this point its just both laughable and sad to see stuff like that. inb4 "stoopid elitist not every1 is ultimate raider!!1111"

The game already did this, you just didn't have any control over it.

If you failed an instanced battle more than I believe 2-3 times, you were given the Echo buff to help you clear it. This has been in the game for a long time now, so if you're dead set on whining with this whole "Waaah mah game is being nerfed for teh casuals!!" crap, the ship for that sailed ages ago.

This new system just gives the player control over both when and if they receive said buff, and by how much, after failing the fight a first time, rather than keeping that element out of your control.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

This change could have a disastrous effect on those who pug group content at end game.

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Its function, without explicit player control, has been in the game for ages now. If there was going to be a disastrous effect as a result, it would have already happened.

Though to be honest, I'm surprised that someone who in another thread bragged about being able to intuit "99%" of trial mechanics on the first try, and talked about having the expectation that players come to the game with a basic level of brain function, is apparently not aware about how the game currently works.

If you are reading this, SE you need to add a torture chamber option above normal. Nobody will use it but it will shut people up who insist on pretending they are above the masses.

I hate to be the WoW refugee here but this is pretty concerning. In modern WoW there is a much-hated feature called LFR, which was intended to help people who struggled with the game experience the story of the raids and see the sights. It's a good idea on paper... but...

LFR's rewards were basically just as good as the rewards from other difficulties of raiding, and so people who didn't struggle with the game at all would end up playing LFR because you can get the best rewards for the least amount of effort. Instead of being something for accessibility LFR became the default raiding option and ended up making it harder for people who want to play at higher difficulties because everyone just did LFR for their instant rewards.

I'm aware that this is currently just a solo-only feature, but I'm concerned that Square might try to replicate it on the group level, which would have the same effects.

I wonder how long it'll take till they add difficulty options at raids.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

If you are reading this, SE you need to add a torture chamber option above normal. Nobody will use it but it will shut people up who insist on pretending they are above the masses.

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Savage Level Solo Instances coming 6.0

Look forward to it! :D

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Originally Posted by Saintly

I wonder how long it'll take till they add difficulty options at raids.

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Beyond the current normal/savage options?

Likely never.

As I'm apparently having to keep repeating today, this system is just adding control over when or if you get the Echo buff, and if you do by how much...when the game already gave you the Echo Buff after failures of instanced quest content, has done so for ages, and was simply not something over which you had direct control.

This isn't a wholly new system nerfing instanced battles from quests in ways we've never seen before. It's literally taking a thing that has been in the game for ages and adding a "Do you want this?" menu option.

In other news, Chicken Little did not see the sky falling today.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Beyond the current normal/savage options?

As I'm apparently having to keep repeating today, this system is just adding control over when or if you get the Echo buff, and if you do by how much...when the game already gave you the Echo Buff after failures of instanced quest content, has done so for ages, and was simply not something over which you had direct control.

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I get your point, however before you still had to first had to take on the challenge, and you gotten to high levels of echo through trying to clear it on higher difficulty. Not fail once and then just go with easiest option avalaible. There still will be people that will fail it on 100% anyway. But eh, for some it will be good change, for me its not.

To people who are complaining about this small meaningful change:

HELLO, WE HAVE 70 lvl JUMP POTIONS, why do you think it could get worse than this? And since when single player MSQ teach you anything about your job?

You are all complaining like they have forced you to run easy mode, lol but since echo is gone the difficulty level will not get lower once you die in MSQ so it should be a good thing right? You will be able to replay the mission if you die at the exact same level of difficulty, also this option is available only after failure, so everyone starts on normal level no matter what.

I swear i have lost few IQ points reading this thread.

Its not about average skill level going from decent to bad. Its about going from very bad to omegabad.

MSQ doesnt teach anything, true. However, at 70+, without skips, you should at least take a look at your skills and see what to do on your job. People dont do that, cuz "its elitist". And then they fail easiest possible instances because they dont know anything about what they are doing.

On the matter of skips, sqex really should just make a tutorial in one of the patches and force it on players who buy skips. At least players would clear solo content

And as i said before, you had to at least try normally for first several tries to get to meaningful echo buffs. You know, you dont get +100% from one fail. Here its just that, going 0-100, some people will fail, decide not to try again and just clear it buffed. And as i said before again, at least for me, doing that for important story fights will only make story bit underwhelming. Instead of "beating really powerful enemy that is used for your and story progression", its just "oh hi boss, rip boss"

But eh, its official forums. "elitist bad casuals good commend pls"

Wait, you mean it's possible for the solo instances to be even EASIER???

When I saw this at first I was hoping they made them more difficult, but hard mode isn't even an option. At least cater to those of us who aren't potatoes and want something difficult, SE.

"Just do ultimates 4head"
Anyway, this change just allows you to get +100% buff after failing duty 1 time instead of lots of times in a row. So technically much easier, but "it doesnt concern u, u elitist, people on very easy play for housing ree"

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Originally Posted by MyakotApelsia

Its not about average skill level going from decent to bad. Its about going from very bad to omegabad.

MSQ doesnt teach anything, true. However, at 70+, without skips, you should at least take a look at your skills and see what to do on your job. People dont do that, cuz "its elitist". And then they fail easiest possible instances because they dont know anything about what they are doing.

On the matter of skips, sqex really should just make a tutorial in one of the patches and force it on players who buy skips. At least players would clear solo content

And as i said before, you had to at least try normally for first several tries to get to meaningful echo buffs. You know, you dont get +100% from one fail. Here its just that, going 0-100, some people will fail, decide not to try again and just clear it buffed. And as i said before again, at least for me, doing that for important story fights will only make story bit underwhelming. Instead of "beating really powerful enemy that is used for your and story progression", its just "oh hi boss, rip boss"

But eh, its official forums. "elitist bad casuals good commend pls"

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The change does absolutely nothing and has no effect on average player skill.
You re-learn everything at lvl 80 like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The change does absolutely nothing and has no effect on average player skill.
You re-learn everything at lvl 80 like it or not.

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The only thing I've ever learned at max level is what my level 80 ability does.

Game isn't hard and it's very easy to learn 90% of your class as you go. Making it any easier just makes it impossible to take the game seriously and will for sure have an effect on the community.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The change does absolutely nothing and has no effect on average player skill.
You re-learn everything at lvl 80 like it or not.

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I mean if you really think so.

So far every second or third expert or eden (or hell, even omega) run i see people just have no idea about what they are doing or what they can do. Healers not using their healing kit (im not even asking for them to dps at that point, my expectations are low); tanks doing 2-3 mobs at the time, doesnt aoe or even pop cooldowns; dps that doesnt aoe, does some 500 iq rotations.

It wouldnt be an issue if i saw them wearing entry 80lvl gear, but more often than not they wear deepshadow+crafted.
/rant
They dont learn. I got my mentoring status to help people with the game, they just ignore everything or start talking bad, which is why i wont renew my status in 5.1. To be mentor, you need someone that learns stuff. People only expect to get carried, spoiled by easy as hell story instances (which are hard for them nerf pleps) and community (like people on posts like this one) encouraging them to continue that.
/rantover
So no. "You re-learn everything at lvl 80" is not an argument. Game doesnt teach them how to play the game, they dont want to do it. Making story instances easier doesnt help it.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

The only thing I've ever learned at max level is what my level 80 ability does.

Game isn't hard and it's very easy to learn 90% of your class as you go. Making it any easier just makes it impossible to take the game seriously and will for sure have an effect on the community.

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No one ever took the story mode seriously; it's the games "relax and enjoy a story" mode. No one learned anything in this games solo instances before this, and they won't learn anything in them after this. This change is for people who have no interest in taking all of this seriously, and the MSQ's normal difficulty wasn't exactly forcing them to in the first place. So, let them take things as easy as they want.

This games community might be the most insecure, tryhard group of people I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Oichi

There are people that play solely for the story. I don't see the problem in making easy for them to do the MSQ SOLO duties, if they have issues with it. Remember that we do have people of all ages, people with disabilities, etc, playing FFXIV because they do love the storyline.

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I mean, so long as they expand trusts to every MSQ dungeon in the game, I wouldn't have an issue with this, but in the meantime the consequences of such changes increasing leaves groups effectively missing, or mostly missing, one of their 4 members.

The change will be both good and bad. There are always those who will just suicide just so they get the three options of difficulty. This being the bad.

I do have a fc buddy though who is super casual, not because they had a say in being super casual. Being disabled and up in years, they can't play mmo's as they once did. They are stuck in one solo instance near the end of Stormblood unable to defeat it. They have tried at least two dozen times or more. In this case I do wish they had this option of selecting which difficulty. They didn't even get to get the Regalia mount even though they tried the instance until the event was ended. Think the "warp strike" was a little bit much to handle for them.

Anyway for those others who have this kind of issues, this isn't all a bad thing. For those too lazy to try, well if there is an easier way around something they'll take it.

If you're really so concerned about being forced into content with the miserable proles who use easy mode, there is a solution! It's called a pre-formed party. Start an FC, screen applicants like it's a static, and then you'll only have other philosopher kings to play with. Never again will you be forced to spend 6 extra minutes in a dungeon.

Personally I'm in favor of a suggestion from a few pages ago: if people are failing due to a specific mechanic they aren't understanding you could just have a tutorial mode in which the game actively locks all but the required skill use (in class specific ones.) or makes one of the npcs comment to you with advice or something per failure. the difficulty thing I can't really see doing anything but help the rest through the content though. If people are going to be bad, then they'll get kicked and it won't be your problem anymore anyways. complaining about a feature meant to let people get through fights without being frustrated is a GOOD thing.

Also the 'but they'll ruin my df experience' arguement i keep seeing is also garbage. you have the option to walk away from any duty you don't want to do in the middle of it with no questions asked and always have. You stay and suffer by choice, no one's forcing you to stay with people you don't like. if you don't want to do a duty, then don't stay in it. how is that such a hard concept for people? 30 min wait? i have an ENTIRE youtube backlog measuring more than 18 hours still in total, the wait's letting me multi task. I can always use the 30 minutes to better nail down my rotation at the local punching dummy. but complaining its only going to make more 'bad players' is a lie. and from my experience bad players generally stop getting parties anyways.

Point is I actually like this option, even as someone who has never failed a duty/RP instance through the whole story beyond back when i first started and had to learn targeting priority, and the Zeno's fight before ShB launch where i had mistakenly left on tank stance. (And yes even both of ShB's major moments including Thancreds instance on the first try. its REALLY not that bad, but i can see why it would be.)

Why is this a thing? This is for instanced battles that are solo (I'm pretty sure I read that right). I'm actually glad they did this because I don't always want to try and figure out the battle specs just to get to the next bit of story (because what you need to do is not always obvious; certain people can't die--etc).

As Black Mage a lot of these trials are a chore. Im glad I can choose to not scream and yell in FC chat because I lost the duty to some stupid reason because I'm tired and just want to unlock something. Thats not saying it still won't happen but I'll take the buffs. Everyone else can be heroes. To themselves. And to a bunch of NPCs that don't care.

I'm surprised that this posts exists when they FINALLY ASSIGNED ILVL REQS TO HW+ LEVELING CONTENT. But no. Let's get mad about things that only affect us personally. Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Would you care to elaborate more on why you're not able to clear these first time?.

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Been some time since I've done one, but, I'd assume:

1. Not playing my class in the roleplays. Not sure if I played my own character in any of them though.
2. No action keybinds due to the roleplay. Trying to click the abilities and move around at the same time.
3. Gear? I only had what the MSQ gave me, no materia. (Not sure if gear matters in these.)
4. New to the game. (Started in January, played through all the MSQ in one run, no breaks, never played any other class.
5. No idea. They were just impossible for me at normal difficulty, and a blockage to MSQ progress.

I was getting so frustrated at these, I was about to quit the game and return to WoW, until I discovered how Echo worked in a google search, and used it as a difficulty bypass.

This is a great thing for people who have physical and mental handicaps. I know of at least two people in my FC who are physically handicapped. One of them has a degenerative disease that has robbed her of a lot of mobility. (She used to be a hardcore raider for crissakes until this hit her.) She has a special rig to play the game with. We, her FC, can help her with things that require more than one player. But duties for the MSQ are often solo. Some she can do no problem, others are very difficult and frustrate her. She walks away from those, unable to finish the MSQ sometimes for weeks or months until we figure out a way to get her through it.

Can we please not assume that something (that doesn't affect anyone personally) is automatically a 'lazy' option? kthnx

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Originally Posted by KaleShibata

i have an ENTIRE youtube backlog measuring more than 18 hours still in total, the wait's letting me multi task.

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Welp, that's me. I still have yet to get through the entire Arad Senki anime because pet hamster videos always take priority.

This is similar to the changes they made for 11's CoP and normal city scenario/leveling chain. It wasn't expected, but I'm guessing someone up top was doing analytics and saw people were not clearing it like they wanted to.

However my question is 'will this actually work or will it break the game again?'

I'm still missing the Game Journalist option below Very Easy there

Sooo.... I had to come here and reply to this.

Difficulties on instances have been around in other games for quite some time, EQ2 comes to mind for me. The best thing is, it doesn't affect you in the slightest!

I read people complaining that it will affect DFs. Trust me, if people stink in DFs, it don't matter what difficulty they put it on.

People will learn ONLY if they want to, and ONLY if they put effort into it. It doesn't matter how many Newbie quests are added or special class quests are made. Even if they are mandatory, there will be players who just follow what is said to get past those quests, then do whatever they feel like.

This update to the instances doesn't bother me one bit.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

This is a great thing for people who have physical and mental handicaps. I know of at least two people in my FC who are physically handicapped. One of them has a degenerative disease that has robbed her of a lot of mobility. (She used to be a hardcore raider for crissakes until this hit her.) She has a special rig to play the game with. We, her FC, can help her with things that require more than one player. But duties for the MSQ are often solo. Some she can do no problem, others are very difficult and frustrate her. She walks away from those, unable to finish the MSQ sometimes for weeks or months until we figure out a way to get her through it.

Can we please not assume that something (that doesn't affect anyone personally) is automatically a 'lazy' option? kthnx

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It's great for my husband as well. He has a mental issue that can narrow his focus to just one thing, so dodging many AoEs can be near impossible for him when trying to get through solo quests. I've had to hop on his character and help him through it, until we can group up again.

The over reaction to this is hilarious. These solo instance never taught one how to play group content. They are one and done and can't be repeated for practice. This will have zero impact on group content.

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Originally Posted by fumofu

This thread is disgusting. I see no problem with letting players choose any difficulty they want for MSQ single-player duties. Please stop treating all non-ex/savage content as a preparation/training for ex/savage.

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I agree that this post is fairly elitist and I don't see eye to eye with OP on this either, but to say it's "disgusting" is pretty extreme. Personally, as far as single Player MSQ content goes, I don't mind the addition of easier difficulties. But, it needs to stay there. If the devs start making the entire game easy mode and eliminate all sense of challenge and meaningful achievements, the game just won't be as fun. If everything is able to be facerolled and just stomped through, then what's the point in even learning how to play and progressing your character?

Once again, doing this for MSQ is OKAY in my opinion, because it's just the story and from my understanding, all people really care about is learning what happens in it. However, if, for example, Extreme Primals received a "Normal", "Easy", and "Very Easy" mode in the future and they all gave the same rewards, I'd be pretty upset about that because the whole point of that type of content is essentially for players to prove themselves, which I love.

I love how we as gamers seem to regress from the early days of Super Mario to today. Its hilarious.
I dont personally care how hard single player content is, but they also keep making dungeons and other multiplayer content easier and easier every patch. No good game design goes BACKWARDS in difficulty from beginning to end. FFXIV keeps doing this. With this new patch, there is ONE single fight for people who dont want faceroll content. ONE. Thats the absolute bare minimum of what you can do to cater to people who LIKE to press 1,2 and 3 in the right order. Everything else is purely catering to supercasuals, popotos and people who play tapper games on mobile phones as the peak of their ability. Its a disappointment.

I'm sorry I don't know why people are getting upset about this - forum warriors and all that I suppose.

I assume SE is monitoring their data and trying to provide an optimum playing experience for all of their playerbase.

The idea that people think this is somehow going to affect their DUTY FINDER (lol) experiences, oh well ... suck it up - DF is what it is. I always just make the best of it - every now and then yes there is a bad one, but usually we clear and that's the point, no?

There are thousands of players who never grace these lovely forums, so I always remember this forum (and individual threads) can be a bit of an echo chamber.

Personally, I like that SE is actually trying to help those who are having issues with certain MSQ instances. I've played many games where the devs don't seem to give a **, so thank you SE for trying to look out for ALL of your playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Mirassou

I'm sorry I don't know why people are getting upset abo-

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Gonna stop you there with people being very different and having opinions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chalbee

If you're really so concerned about being forced into content with the miserable proles who use easy mode, there is a solution! It's called a pre-formed party. Start an FC, screen applicants like it's a static, and then you'll only have other philosopher kings to play with. Never again will you be forced to spend 6 extra minutes in a dungeon.

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And... why shouldn't this rule apply to the minority of players, instead of punishing the vast majority?

Looking at the picture from understanding the notes correctly you only get that option to change difficulty if you fail when doing it for the 1st time and then when your retrying. So it'll basically be someone doesn't want to have it lessened in difficulty theyll just leave it on normal and problem only even touch it or if they just want to get through it then they'll do it. Will it affect other aspects of the game as others are saying I have no idea probably not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MyakotApelsia

I mean if you really think so.

So far every second or third expert or eden (or hell, even omega) run i see people just have no idea about what they are doing or what they can do.

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Based on my experience in MMOs going back to 2006...

This would be the case regardless of the existence of any sort of solo instanced trial. In fact, it is the case - players that don't know what to do in level capped dungeons or the basic normal raids and have no real desire to improve will exist...and most of them almost certainly made it through those solo instance quest battles on the first try too.

And if they didn't? They almost certainly did by the third attempt, when the game starts to give the Echo buff anyway.

The solo instance battles have never been this grand gatekeeper to keep out the unskilled (and were never meant to serve that function anyway), so I truthfully have no idea why you and others are treating them like they are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheForce

If the devs start making the entire game easy mode and eliminate all sense of challenge and meaningful achievements

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They won't.

To repeat - this function of providing the player with the Echo Buff following failed attempts in solo instance battles has existed for years. This just adds menu control to that function, giving the player the ability to choose if they want the buff to apply at all, but only after a failed attempt at the normal difficulty.

Again, this is not some new difficulty setting or new philosophy toward difficulty settings of content, it is simply adding player control via a menu to a function that already exists in the game. Any concern that this will somehow lead to a shift where all game content suddenly gets similar difficulty settings to be chosen via a menu is, simply put, baseless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

The change will be both good and bad. There are always those who will just suicide just so they get the three options of difficulty. This being the bad.

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They can already do this, they just have to suicide the instance battle more than once to get the full buff (which is equivalent to the upcoming very easy option). So "the bad" is already here...so what are worried about again with this change?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

I want to preface this by saying I am a casual scrub. In fact, to call me a casual scrub would be a compliment. I am by no means a great player, but I am competent...

Have we really reached the point where we're now actively catering to players who cannot be bothered to learn their jobs, read their tooltips, and actually press buttons?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...313_Chrome.jpg

I understand brand new players having difficulty learning the ropes in the first few levels of the game, and I love guiding new players on their paths, but when a small number of people are complaining about not being able to smash a solo duty at level 70... LEVEL SEVENTY... when everyone else can clear it with absolute ease, and those people are catered to instead of suggesting they simply learn their role...

"But if you can clear these fights easily, why do you care?" I hear you cry.

Because when people are given an easy option to clear already basic content, this spills over into Duty Finder, which on Chaos DC is already a sea of Ice Mages, zero-DPS healers, Tanks who only pull one mob at a time, and Paladins who insist on using Clemency on themselves at 95% HP.

Duty Finder gets filled with the kind of players who aren't pushed to learn their job properly, or even to a competent level, and then everyone suffers.

Guess it looks like I'll be running content with my FC in future, because wew lads.

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The option to choose a difficulty will be displayed upon defeat or when replaying the battle.

So if someone happens to not 1 and done they can choose to use echo or not thats it has zero impact on anyone else's playing of the game.