Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Will classic have more than a few months of activity though? People will very quickly start missing out on the Qol features. Hell, blizzard had to make a post telling people which things weren't bugs, because people kept thinking qol features missing was a bug.

---

Honestly, I've heard a vast majority of super positive reception for classic, but that is neither here nor there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Considering how people still fail at easy mechanics like stack and spread markers I don't think many actually do.
Then again, guides aren't really of any help for the majority of the community seeing they still wipe to the easiest mechanics months after release.

I would really wish that the 'carry me senpai' mentality in DF would just stop.
And the 'kill for friend' trap party in PF but you can just ignore these groups so it's not as big of an issue.

Take a look at the Japanese Datacenters, there it's basically the other way around, there it's actually rare to find such situations.

---

Oh I agree most of the player base is bad. I just like getting my first run in blind. I also figure out the mechanics on the first round or 2, so it's not an issue for me. And I usually do stuff patch day.

No number of guides will fix players running off with stack markers in the 15th instance that's had them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Considering how people still fail at easy mechanics like stack and spread markers I don't think many actually do.
Then again, guides aren't really of any help for the majority of the community seeing they still wipe to the easiest mechanics months after release.

I would really wish that the 'carry me senpai' mentality in DF would just stop.
And the 'kill for friend' trap party in PF but you can just ignore these groups so it's not as big of an issue.

Take a look at the Japanese Datacenters, there it's basically the other way around, there it's actually rare to find such situations.

---

The people in the west are far more entitled than the east.

I work in customer service, I deal with people from both asia(china and japan mostly), and UK + france.

Trust me when I say, westerners are INCREDIBLY entitled compared to the asian sphere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

OP, if you truly believe that XI was a "challenge," then you are misremembering what the game was. XI—like many of its peers in its generation—punished mistakes (XP loss on wipe) and was tedious (the grind is real). Neither of these things are actually "hard." There were some hard bosses, both killable and unkillable, but nothing in XI—and the MMORPG genre in general—screams hard. And while I do not do Savage in XIV, I do have a lot of experience with the hardest of the hardest MMO content. I just don't do it anymore because I don't want to invest the time required; there's too many other great games to play, great books to read, and great content to stream. So I do know what I'm talking about.


You want a challenge in gaming? Go play Dark Souls. Otherwise, please stop. Projecting tedium as "challenge" really doesn't make your case.

---

This is true. Many people make the mistake of conflating 'tedium' as 'difficult'. After all, is Eureka hard?

This won't happen, as much as I want it too.

All we have is Savage and Ultimate, and Ultimate is basically for the hardcore of the hardcore. We're not asking for the game to be flipped upside down and be completely face-to-the-wall hard, but we're in in our 3rd xpac now. It's time to stop holding the player's hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxlStream

The challenge is the community itself most of the time. Can you dodge all the PF traps that are getting more and more clever at disguising themselves? Tune in to Shadowbringers for an exiting game of Party Finder EX/Savage

---

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/...418&height=616

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Considering how people still fail at easy mechanics like stack and spread markers I don't think many actually do.
Then again, guides aren't really of any help for the majority of the community seeing they still wipe to the easiest mechanics months after release.

I would really wish that the 'carry me senpai' mentality in DF would just stop.
And the 'kill for friend' trap party in PF but you can just ignore these groups so it's not as big of an issue.

Take a look at the Japanese Datacenters, there it's basically the other way around, there it's actually rare to find such situations.

---

Watching something and then doing that thing are two very different things, i can watch Lionel messi dance his way through 8 players and score a hattrick but when i try to do it i fall on my face.

Sometimes i go in blind and sometimes i'll watch/read a guide but when actually doing the duty half my brain is trying to remember what's coming up and the other half is trying to figure out how to deal with whatever is coming up which usually ends up with me panicking and dying anyway OR the boss doing something that was not covered in the guide but the latter would be down to a poor guide. Every situation is different so you have to adapt.

in the party finder when i see things like "Watch guide" or "Show achievement" it just makes me anxious and puts me off from doing whatever that party was looking for but that's a personal thing and i don't expect the game or the player base to change to suit myself. To be clear i'm not accusing anyone in this thread of doing that despite my wording seeming that way...i just suck at writing.

This game has never really been hard at all, at least since 2.0 launch. Grindy? Sometimes, but not difficult. The only real challenging pieces of content are Extreme trials, Savage and Ultimate. Beyond that this game is probably the most casual MMO I have ever played. It's hard to make something "too easy" when it was never really difficult to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

FFXIV has never been, is not and will never be a hard mmorpg to play.
Yoshi P said it already, he wants an mmorpg that you actually play it like a game and not treat it like a job.
It IS a casual mmorpg where you could jump in and play whatever time you could put at it and have a fine time, hence why there are so many women playing this game, since they dont have to dedicate their life towards it.
But there is something for a hardcore players too you are not left on the ice, savage and extreme content is quite demanding and maybe you cant grind the game like you could do with WoW or BDO, yet there is still a challenge for someone who seeks it.

---

Whoa. Let's back this up a second because I really don't appreciate the implications here. You have essentially said women couldn't play difficult games unless they dedicate their lives towards it. Or, conversely, imply that only men want to dedicate a lot of their free time towards video games.

Either way, this is very much a road you don't want to go down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GomJabbar

She didn't say they shouldn't at all... Just not day one.

---

The same question still applies those. Why? You may prefer to go in blind, but not everyone does or cares. If you can't find a party for blind prog, then make one yourself. Guide makers are going to release content quickly because the whole intent is catering towards who want them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The same question still applies those. Why? You may prefer to go in blind, but not everyone does or cares. If you can't find a party for blind prog, then make one yourself. Guide makers are going to release content quickly because the whole intent is catering towards who want them.

---

I think people are misunderstanding me a bit. Guides are fine, in general. But when a few patches dropped, you'd see party finders up for ex fights with "watch a guide" before a guide was even out. On day one. Other times, the creators would rush to get the guides out, and have misinformation or mistakes (Mr happy's Garuda ex guide being one of the worst offenders". A lot of the time, these guides are never fixed, noted, or adjusted in any way, leaving bad info.

One of the current annoyances I deal with is the A B C callout for cerberus in WoD. You don't need a whole alliance for chains. All dps should get eaten to speed the fight up.


I personally don't watch guides because a guide only tells me what I can learn the first time I go in anyway. Sure, I reference guides when looking for adjustments for a group as a whole (who should be where and when) when we get stuck on a phase or mechanic. But for the most part, I learn the fight as I go. It's worked out so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

I have played a game like that, Silkroad online, i just hit level 20 and bought my lvl 20 weapon, sold my lvl 15 weapon and died to teh first mob i engaged due to a DC, i leveled down to 19 and could no longer use my 20 weapon and i didn't have enough money to buy a weaker weapon so i had to punch mobs and spam potions just to get my lvl back. It was an experience for sure.

---

Lol, sounds like an unforgiving game. I had something similar happen in a game called Zombi U where if you 'die' you start over with nothing but a cricket bat and have to find your last character and kill them to get your stuff back. Apparently zombies in that game have a random insta-kill lunge that I didn't know about and got jumped with all my gear. My new character woke up to "there's a large horde heading straight for the hideout" with nothing but a bat.

I think there is a huge different between challenging and time sync. Old MMOs were mostly time syncs where the only difficulty was "how many players do we need to throw at something." Savage Raids and (now that they are added) Ultimate Fights are very mechanically heavy and require communication between the players. Yet every one keeps saying this part of the game needs to be harder, and this part of the game needs to be harder. If you make everything like Savage Raids and Ultimate Fights, which only a small portion of the community cares about doing, you're going to push the other 90% of the people that play the game to another game. The devs only have so many work hours between the patches so more hardcore content will cost other content. We already lost one dungeon every other patch for Ultimate fights and Eureka. They also have the the challenging aspects of Deep Dungeons and they even put a Savage like fight in what was meant to be casual content in Eureka. The game has enough hardcore challenging content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hitori

I'm seeing pretty much what I thought I would. You don't have to agree with my opinion, but offer your own instead of 'wishing their was a dislike button'.

Also, community isn't the same as sub numbers. There might be more people playing than ever, but be honest, what community interaction do the MAJORITY of people have besides standing in their city of choice and waiting for their queue?

I understand the game is trying to cater to more people, which is exactly my point. WoW streamlined everything and in the end Classic is being released for all their efforts. A 15 year old product is more appealing to the playerbase than the current version. That's what I don't want for XIV.

It doesn't have to be DMC ball busting hard, but come on, dungeons and 24 man content is brain dead outside of the 1st week of release.

---

Frankly I have lots of interaction with my community my FC and I do a bunch of things together i group for random content and make friends with strangers I participate in Hunts with many of the community the difficulty curve hasn't affected it in the slightest granted I havent done any savage content or ex trials for SB but I really have been more trying to hit 70 on a bunch of classes before ShB hits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Whoa. Let's back this up a second because I really don't appreciate the implications here. You have essentially said women couldn't play difficult games unless they dedicate their lives towards it. Or, conversely, imply that only men want to dedicate a lot of their free time towards video games.

Either way, this is very much a road you don't want to go down.

---

No? I specifically wrote about time spent in the game and that you could have fun with any amount of time, since that what the games are for, right? How did you came up with an idea of me suggesting women cant play hard games? I have no idea.
I meant, women tend to be more busy in real life for obvious reasons, and they will choose more (FUN) rewarding game per hour spent over a game where you have to no life in order to get nice things. FFXIV you could play any time you want and you will still enjoy it, for example playing hard content which does not require a ton of time to just get in and do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

Nope. "Influencers" are a blight upon this star in my opinion. Especially one who puts out strat guides that completely ruin experiences for people getting in a few days of content release or spewing nonsense that isn't actually enjoyable.

Party Finders guaranteed on launch of WATCH A GUIDE... of something I didn't make but reddit said this person was right.

---

I'll never understand this irrational distaste for YTers/Influencers/Streamers. No one is forcing players to watch said guides, if you want to blind run everything then form a static with that as the requirement.

Regardless of your personal feelings of influencers, they have a pretty big impact on the community and you not liking them for whatever inane reason isnt going to change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selova

I'll never understand this irrational distaste for YTers/Influencers/Streamers. No one is forcing players to watch said guides, if you want to blind run everything then form a static with that as the requirement.

Regardless of your personal feelings of influencers, they have a pretty big impact on the community and you not liking them for whatever inane reason isnt going to change that.

---

See right here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I think people are misunderstanding me a bit. Guides are fine, in general. But when a few patches dropped, you'd see party finders up for ex fights with "watch a guide" before a guide was even out. On day one. Other times, the creators would rush to get the guides out, and have misinformation or mistakes (Mr happy's Garuda ex guide being one of the worst offenders". A lot of the time, these guides are never fixed, noted, or adjusted in any way, leaving bad info.

---

Mr. Happy did not make or design this game. His approval was not needed for anything, and yet people look at his videos as word of God and day 1 are practically slobbering for it. And thus, within the first week of a major patch, PF is filled with WATCH A GUIDE over mechanics that can be grasped roughly on the first run or 2.

The people who made the guides went in blind, it should not be expected of me to have watched one because I had a life to attend to and couldn't be there minute 0. If someone asks for help, offer help. This extends to queuing into something for the first time. I shouldn't have to hold the party up or leave because someone wants me to watch a 10 minute video I will not retain. Nor should I have to sit and wait for someone to give unsolicited advice a la these videos, parroting Mr. Happy and happier than a pig in mud.

Doing Kugane Ohashi day 1 before a guide was out was the most fun I'd had in awhile because everyone was blind, no one could explain anything before the fight started and after a few wipes we got it. I would hate to have done it that weekend where people wont start because "Let me explain this boss for 5 minutes despite no one asking."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

No? Why are you manipulating my post that way? I specifically wrote about time spent in the game and that you could have fun with any amount of time, since that what the games are for, right? How would you came up with this, of me suggesting women cant play hard games? I have no idea.
I meant, women tend to be more busy in real life for obvious reasons, and they will choose more (FUN) rewarding game per hour spent over a game where you have to no life in order to get nice things. FFXIV you could play any time you want and you will still enjoy it, for example playing hard content which does not require a ton of time to burn on it.

---

Because you specifically linked the higher female demographic this game has towards its lack of difficulty. You're still doing it by making the broad assumption women inherently have busier lives than men. If we're going by pure accessibility, virtually every FPS game is pick up and play. In fact, one could argue games like Fortnight or Smash Bros are easier because they literally require zero investment to reach their respective end game. Furthermore, I wager plenty of men play FFXIV for the same reasons you described. Fun and rewarding is also entirely subjective. What you find fun, someone else—regardless of their gender—may not.

Point being. You brought gender into a discussion where it has no relevance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gula

snip.

---

That's on the people doing that then, not him. The guides are there to help inform players, people treating them as gospel is their own fault. If this is that big of a thorn in players sides then dont watch the guides. Create a static that runs everything blind. Let's stop vilifying content creators because parts of the community misuse the guides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

snip

---

Ah i see what i wrote now, sory if u felt offended, i messed up my post construct, intention of the post was different.

I find most of the time when people complain about a game being too easy- they can't even complete the most challenging content themselves. Also, as someone whose first MMO was vanilla WoW, I cringe when people talk about challenge and what'll soon be 'classic' in the same sentence.

Vanilla's longevity was about wasting time, NOT about challenge. Outside of Naxx, which did have some actually difficult mechanics, there were few difficult fights- and think about the mechanics to some of the hardest. For example, Twin Emps. Mechanically the fight comes down to being able to switch tank aggro. Nowadays, those mechanics are considered basic- because games are designed to let you do what you intend to do without hassle.


And therein lies most of the 'time consuming' aspects of classic wow. Taking half an hour to get to a raid, spending another half hour waiting for single summons and single target buffs to go out- these are not in the least bit challenging, they didn't ever make for a good community- but they sure as heck took hours of raid time up. Instead of waiting in queue while you do other things, like quest or mini games or whatever- you stood in a main city spamming trade for hours hoping to get a group, losing party members multiple times and having to stop, hearth, repeat midway through if someone left.

That's what classic wow without rose tinted glasses was- waiting. Its content wasn't gated through talent, but extreme time requirements that resulted in raid days that were two to three times longer than what we have in games now. Gear was gated through having one or two pieces that had a 10-20% chance to drop, and had sometimes a dozen people who wanted it- think about that, it could take half a year to get a piece of gear you want. The most challenging part of every single raid (with some exceptions in the Naxx raid) was getting 40 people organized- meaning, ultimately, the challenge of raiding had nothing to do with mechanics or even what 90% of the players did.

Rotations sometimes were as simple as a single button plus the occassional cooldown- the most challenging part of my hunter rotation was making sure my AA didn't get broken by aimed shot, and following the tranq shot order. Most 'mechanics', like that tranq shot order, were not about reacting or thinking quickly in fights, but about following precise instructions at specific times, and the biggest threat was often randomized and out of your control- like unavoidable fears. If you had the right gear, and you could press 1-3 buttons, you were very close to being top notch efficient on almost every single spec in the game.

And even the one thing that might, to a degree, be considered better- community- was a result of having a small community with no cross realm. Do we even know classic will have no cross realm? Even if it did- you ultimately ended up doing the exact same thing- standing around in one place spamming chat for a group instead of using a group finder- however, in classic you had to stay in the city due to how chat worked, whereas group finders made it so you could do things while waiting. Vanilla was actually the worst when it came to forcing everyone into the same place- IF, SW and Org were always absolutely packed.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying Vanilla WoW, but please don't try to make it out as something it wasn't. The rotations in this game's easiest to play class are ten times more complex than anything in Vanilla. The boss mechanics even of Naxx fights were more simplistic than even some levelling bosses in this game- sure, getting 40 people to do the safety dance when graphically it barely even showed for many players, there was lag, and there were no indicators was 'difficult'- but I don't think it's a less 'braindead' encounter when most of the challenge is lag, 39 other players doing it right, limited space (C'thun eye beams comes to mind), and not actually knowing when or where attacks will land.

I actually think it takes far more effort to learn fights based off having to observe rather than having to memorize a strategy and stand in the correct spot.

Also- 15 year old product more appealing than the current version? It'll have some popularity, it'll definitely spike at first since people will be done Azshara's initial push when Classic comes out, and no doubt many players will spend time there between major patches. But I think we need to wait a year before we can truly say it's more appealing.

There were things I enjoyed about Vanilla, don't get me wrong- I had more fun with pvp matches that had substance and the long AV, and I liked the feeling of growth through the dungeons, as well as the value of CC and non-rotation abilities since they could actually work on mobs in dungeons. But- it was not a complicated game, it was not an intelligent game, it didn't have hard mechanics, and for anyone to ever complain about 'waiting' in a modern game and then try to pass off classic wow as BETTER makes my first thought be 'this is a person who has never played vanilla wow'.

Vanilla WoW is the game of waiting- you wait for buffs, you wait for your party to get there, you wait for resources to regen, you wait on excruciatingly slow flight paths, you wait to get a party to begin with, you wait for bosses to respawn on wipes, you run through massive dungeons and zones after wipes. You wait wait wait wait wait- half the game was waiting or travelling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selova

That's on the people doing that then, not him. The guides are there to help inform players, people treating them as gospel is their own fault. If this is that big of a thorn in players sides then dont watch the guides. Create a static that runs everything blind. Let's stop vilifying content creators because parts of the community misuse the guides.

---

So how's that youtube channel coming along then?

These creators could wait a week to upload. But they chose not to to be FIRST!!! and have their name on everyone's digital lips. They have a discourtesy of their own that encourages impatience and reliance on hastily put together tactics. RajmanGaming HD had an awful, awful Sonic Mania walkthrough that was the first and only one uploaded. Many people commented on this, but gotta be first even if it's trash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No, they can't go back to 1.0 because 1.0 was awful .

Signed, someone who actually was there from beta 1.0 to the final day. I leveled my first 2 classes to 50 on doblyns and coblyns. I was capped on earth and fire shards when 2.0 started. And had thousands of crystals.

---

1.0 was under cooked and lacked direction. 5.0, possibly, Has a different type of problem.

i'd say the fear is its going to be less engaging and less special. The problem is less about challenge, and more about boredom.

challenge is one way to allievate it, but they have other factors.

less differentiation in certain job roles.

"streamling" classes until they have less cool things/things to improve on

The same amount of skills, and less mechanics, spread out through more levels (now you need level 80 to get the same number of mechanics as 70 before)

less synergy and interaction between classes.


How good this expansion is, is going to be mostly about the story, and the content, i dont think the classes and jobs are going to be as entertaining as they used to be. Id say they need to focus on cool stuff before streamlining and tight balance in future content.

more uniquness, more fun mechanics, more synergy/interaction between players, thats something that crosses the casual/hardcore divide

the game was never hard to begin with, even back from ARR era. if you want hard go play souls game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

the game was never hard to begin with, even back from ARR era. if you want hard go play souls game

---

*Play Sekiro

There is Ultimate and Savage raids and Extreme Trials. That is a lot of content, maybe not enough but still its a hefty chunk. A lot of it gives many players a very strong challenge. The thing is at the end of the day this is a game ran by a business that wants to bring in as many customers as possible and overly complicated content does not pay the bills. I mean when 4man dungeons with relatively simple mechanics can turn into wipe fests and dps checks not being met in those (Mist Dragon) good gravy please do not up the difficulty on that.. It's fine. I like getting in and out when i run a roulette.

Also OP exactly what do you think the original idea of the game was? It really seems to me that Yoshi has gone out of his way to make the game accessible. What exactly am I missing?

While we're on the topic of content creators real quick, am I the only one who thinks it's both hilarious and facepalm worthy that there's already a guide out for the 73 dungeon, the one that isn't even out yet?

Also I agree with the OP to some extent, but more on the side of Savage has been getting easier and easier with every patch. Not a bad thing entirely since it gets new raiders into the scene, but if it keeps going that way they may as well just rename them (Extreme) and call it a day.

Tack on how much they've simplified jobs in 4.0/5.0 because people can't read or even do their main role (healing) efficiently in the first place, it's no wonder some people may feel jaded about the game's overall difficulty right now.

I don't think it's "hilarious" at all that a guide exists for it. The entire dungeon was playable and is unlikely to be altered significantly, if at all, between now and official release unless something was extremely broken about it in "beta", which it didn't seem to be.

As far as I see it, getting a guide out for it now lessens the workload they'll have when 5.0 actually lands.

People are making dungeon guides?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha

People are making dungeon guides?

---

Gotta get them clicks yo, even for the easiest of content.

I already dealt with enough of this type of player in wow, go play classic and have fun grinding and sleepwalking through raids that are easier than level 50 dungeons in ffxiv.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha

People are making dungeon guides?

---

As a new player I would have greatly appreciated a dungeon guide. Some of the boss mechanics are quite unintuitive until the mechanism has been explained to you - especially how to respond to unique markers - and playing on a Japanese data centre, I was rarely able to communicate with my party.

Back in ARR, some dungeon where a bit more challenging (on level 50 dungeon) than what we have now where you simply grab everything, kill, boss, repeat, with no mecanics to think. Raid were more difficult too. Crafting and gathering were more difficult to HQ since you had some RNG with the good/excellent bonus where you had to adjust your rotation to when it pop, and not just run a macro like in Stormblood with 100% chance of HQ.

Globally, the game become more and more easy, and they seems to keep doing it that way. Yes the Extreme or raid can be challenging on the first week of a release when you are minimum ilvl and need to make a perfect dance, but the gear that drop in a raid have no uses except making the raid where you get it easier. They had remove everything where a player could make a mistake from the game, like the statistics, and they just make it easier to meld, you mostly have juste one build now.

I can understand that many people are just casual, but making a game too easy is a way to fall, like WoW did. We are not at WoW level yet, but, making a game where you can clear stuff easily, then have to wait for the next patch in 4 month and fill the time with repetitive boring stuff like Eureka, well that's the reason why many people take a break between patches. If the last raid could take at least 3-4 week to beat for the hardcore players, then we would have things to do until the next patch, but usually we can beat the savage within 1 or 2 weeks.

WoW was hard, at the begining. Until Wotlk. After what, the game became more and more easy, and you can see the population of the game dropping more and more since then. If you want people to keep interest in a game, it has to be hard. It doesn't matter if it's not everyone who clear a raid on the current patch, casual players can try, and if they fail, they can just try it again with better gear on the next tier. It's fun to wipe. It's fun to be challenged. I never do expert roulette here and get my weekly cap from hunt because I hate to do an easy dungeon and waste 20 minutes to be bored. So I 100% agree, this game is now too easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hitori

Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

---

FFXIV never was a hardcore game in the first place, at least since 2.0 release (didn't play 1.0, can't say anything about this).

It always was casual-based and also kept style "make the gameplay okay for those who can spend only one hour per day online".

For those... roughly 5% of a whole playerbase who enjoy hard content, there is hard content. Maybe with a little bit low amount, but is there sense to make more if 95% will never even touch it?

XIV does not go in WoW direction. Because it never was WoW. The quality and difficulty of the content is pretty much on the same level as it was 5 year ago. Even if there are some simplifications, there are reasons for it, and I remember Yoshida saying clearly why: community changes, too. Modern gamers in its majority can't spend 10 hours per day online trying to kill one cursed RB, a big amount of people play, like, twice time per week. And they need to agjust the game for them, too, not only for hardcore players.

I wouldn't mind having some more (optional?) midcore content, but making the base content more difficult might not be the right direction (seeing as how many people strugle with basics already in your avarage duty roulette).

As for guides, they are tools. It's as simple as not watching them if you dont want to. You can set up a staticor PF group to blind experiment if that is your thing. Without guides the first few weeks on more... obscure mechanics would be even worse, and arguably the chaos would last longer until the community consolidates on a stable clear tactic.

The regular content is quite casual generally... I can understand the MSQ and it's relevant dungeons being more casual. But raids, specifically the "hard" difficulty 8-man ones and the 24-man ones, could stand to have more difficulty than just learning the mechanics...

Some fights you could just about record yourself going through it as a macro and just let that do the fight for you next time. Worst offender of this for Stormblood being Catastrophe from Omega's Deltascape v2.0...

The game is fine as is. MSQ story content is easy, because it's MSQ Story Content.
You want a challenge, do the savage and extreme modes.
You want a real challenge, go do Ultimate and them come complain

Go do titan extreme sync'd to the item level it was meant to be played at which I think is 70.

The OP probably does the easy content or 70 runs old content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Go do titan extreme sync'd to the item level it was meant to be played at which I think is 70.

---

Everyone i talked to who played during titan ex release told me always the same thing, the difficulty wasn't the mechanics, but rather the ping issues many players faced. Walking out of the aoe and still getting hit....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halivel

Modern gamers in its majority can't spend 10 hours per day online trying to kill one cursed RB, a big amount of people play, like, twice time per week. And they need to agjust the game for them, too, not only for hardcore players.

---

Yes gaming is more "mainstream" nowadays which leads to more people with less time to play, but mmorpg's were always games in which you had to invest a huge amount of time, devs trying to cater more and more to the casual 1-2h a day player base is the reason why most mmorpg's or games in general are getting more and more easy and boring. If you don't have time for time demanding games, don't play them and play single player/co-op or fps games where you can play 2-4 rounds in 2h and then log off. Instead of playing games which fit your available time, people demand everything to be changed to fit them or devs/company's try to make their games more and more appealing to "casual" players or players with very limited time so they can get more revenue...I think this is a mistake, but this is only my opinion.

I think OP does have a point, even if i don't agree with everything he wrote and you can compare FF14 to WoW, since both are theme-park mmorpg's and both use expansions to add more content to the game. Similary they both have to deal with constant "ability bloat" and they both deal in a very similar way with this issue ( remove skills to make space for new ones). Also they try to make all jobs/classes interesting,unique and balanced. While with every expansion/patch we might get more close to a balanced state, a lot of classes lose their unique game play style and feel more and more "same-ish" and a lot of players lose interest or dislike the changes made to the jobs (drk...) thanks to changes made to the way they play, be it for an overhaul or simply by losing skills they previously had.

I agree that ff14 is a very casual game, but the OP also has a point when he says the game gets easier and easier. In SB the devs did delete a lot of ability's from the classes to make them easier(thou they reasoned with "button bloat") and thus changed the way some classes were played, *cough* drk *cough*. Now with ShB again. While the dungeon/raid difficulty might not change (we haven't played the expansion yet), the game play of the different jobs can also lower/rise the difficulty of a game and affects the "fun factor" a lot.