Healer identity in 5.0

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Really depends on what their vision is for balanced healers. We know shield vs heals is an issue. Do they consider ogcds as they are currently an issue? Or that healers try to rarely use their gcd heals? Are healers having to much time to dps? Has their stance changed on utility? Because ogcds are the primary heal source do they want healers to have a different dps rotation? So many possible questions. Hopefully there will be good answers come May.

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Of course, all my rambling is mostly what I assume is the logical path. :)
But seeing how they made SCH pet abilities instead of spells (thus making them less clunky and more reactive), addressed clipping on AST (thus making oGCD use easier), added more and more oGCD since Heavensward and no new GCD spells (just upgrades of the older ones) : I assume they are going that way for 5.0
Now the buffing component is another discussion, but based on the same assumptions we now have more ways to use them without clipping, they are highly valued in endgame content, they work well in synergies... I'd also assume it's a logical progression to go on that way.

That does not mean WHM has to become a buffer, but it definitely needs to see its clunkiness addressed. It could still rely on GCD, but they would need to add a tweak so that GCD use is more valuable for the job than oGCDs.

For me I am hoping they move away from ogcds some. The dps to healing ratio for the role is off imo. A great healer can always maximize their time and skills better allowing for extra from the class But when you can dps most of the time and only toss an occasional heal it just feels wrong on a healer. Something has skewed and messed up in my mind.

With how strong utility is in this game they are going to have to back away from “pures” imo. The pure classes are capable but they do not Bri g enough to outshine the utility. That utility can be clutch at times.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

With how strong utility is in this game they are going to have to back away from “pures” imo. The pure classes are capable but they do not Bri g enough to outshine the utility. That utility can be clutch at times.

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But that's the thing, you can be a "pure" class and still have utility. The problem is that SE doesn't take the "pure" concept far enough. They stop at slightly bigger numbers. It never translates into exceptional new abilities. If my class has forgone any diversification in it's abilities and is built around doing ONE THING REALLY REALLY WELL, then I should be able to do things the other classes can't.

If you want WHM to be a pure healer, then actually give it unique tools and abilities to heal with. Give WHM a reraise or an AoE raise, or a way to reduce or eliminate weakness. Give it a Healing Aura or let it cast "stored heals" that activate when someone takes damage or even heals that activate when a character hits 0 and lets them cheat death. That's absurd! you say? Is it really though? Isn't it more ridiculous to have a class wholly dedicate itself to a single skillset and gain nothing more than slightly bigger numbers?

If I'm the guy who lives at the gym, I shouldn't just be able to lift 20lbs more than the guy who goes three times a week. I should be able to lift things in ways the other guy can't even imagine.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

But that's the thing, you can be a "pure" class and still have utility. The problem is that SE doesn't take the "pure" concept far enough. They stop at slightly bigger numbers. It never translates into exceptional new abilities. If my class has forgone any diversification in it's abilities and is built around doing ONE THING REALLY REALLY WELL, then I should be able to do things the other classes can't.

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The issue with something like this is that in the healer role...

Everyone needs to be able to clear content.

So you can't make 1 job have more healing/more heal mechanics that make them able to bypass certain attacks from bosses or do some crazy things that for example, makes them much better at being able to solo heal encounters.

Since if you do that, then the other jobs become useless.

In the same vein, if you do dedicate all of a job's focus into "Healing" and niche things like raising, or being able to negate a tankbuster (Via cheat death mechanic) then you run into a problem where this utility is just not seen as worth it over other jobs who's focus gives them actual DPS gains.

Essentially, you get the RDM problem, where their utility is insta-raise capability. But, if people aren't dying (Also, aren't dying at a frequency where Healers/SMN can't keep up with Swiftcast CD's) then it's useless compared to taking another job that either deals more damage themselves, or has other damage increase utility for the party.

Like, at best, I can only imagine something like if there was a division between healing types such as Shield vs Regen or Tank vs Raid and thus a "Pure" Healer could then be able to flex between both roles, though even in this capacity, the "Pure" Healer would still need to bring something noteworthy in addition to this to allow it to compete with the other "Focused" Healers that can only do one role equally well but would likely have other benefits in their own right.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

The issue with something like this is that in the healer role...

Everyone needs to be able to clear content.

So you can't make 1 job have more healing/more heal mechanics that make them able to bypass certain attacks from bosses or do some crazy things that for example, makes them much better at being able to solo heal encounters.

Since if you do that, then the other jobs become useless.

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And thats not fair? Right now WHM is the odd healer out with no utility, which I'm sure you agree is also unfair. But in this hypothetical, the new abilities WHM gets don't have to be required. Encounters can and should be able to be cleared by all configurations. And SE can engineer a way to require two healers so WHM doesn't just solo heal (they do it for Tanks). They haven't for healers because they're lazy.

But if AST and SCH can help groups by providing more damage, letting the run end faster and reducing the number of mechanics they do, why can't WHM help groups clear by letting groups cheese through certain mechanics occasionally? Either way its fewer mechanics.

Now, you can certainly argue that "Then this group doesnt need you because they just do the mechanics." But you might also be able to argue that if you can cheese the mechanic, you can stay next to the boss and do more DPS, giving a valid reason to include WHM.

The only blasphemous part of the whole scenario is that there'd be a different way to tackle a mechanic or encounter and we apparently can't have that. SE is all about following a script.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

But that's the thing, you can be a "pure" class and still have utility. The problem is that SE doesn't take the "pure" concept far enough. They stop at slightly bigger numbers. It never translates into exceptional new abilities. If my class has forgone any diversification in it's abilities and is built around doing ONE THING REALLY REALLY WELL, then I should be able to do things the other classes can't.

If you want WHM to be a pure healer, then actually give it unique tools and abilities to heal with. Give WHM a reraise or an AoE raise, or a way to reduce or eliminate weakness. Give it a Healing Aura or let it cast "stored heals" that activate when someone takes damage or even heals that activate when a character hits 0 and lets them cheat death. That's absurd! you say? Is it really though? Isn't it more ridiculous to have a class wholly dedicate itself to a single skillset and gain nothing more than slightly bigger numbers?

If I'm the guy who lives at the gym, I shouldn't just be able to lift 20lbs more than the guy who goes three times a week. I should be able to lift things in ways the other guy can't even imagine.

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What you are suggesting just isn’t feasible in regards to maintaining balance in a mmo game. But quite frankly neither is the utility vs non utility set up SE has taken. Some players will sideline certain classes then. Hopefully the get this worked out.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

And thats not fair? Right now WHM is the odd healer out with no utility, which I'm sure you agree is also unfair.

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Yes, but the unfairness of the current situation doesn't justify creating an unfair situation the other way.

Especially since, really, there's no reason why WHM can't just get some utility that isn't pure heals.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

But in this hypothetical, the new abilities WHM gets don't have to be required.

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Then they will be scrutinised against the other healers unique utilities to find out which two healers have the "Best" utility and whichever one doesn't make the cut will be considered "Bad"

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

And SE can engineer a way to require two healers so WHM doesn't just solo heal (they do it for Tanks).

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Then extra "Heal focus" means nothing. Since you're back to square one where WHM is better at healing people... But doesn't need to be.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

But if AST and SCH can help groups by providing more damage, letting the run end faster and reducing the number of mechanics they do, why can't WHM help groups clear by letting groups cheese through certain mechanics occasionally? Either way its fewer mechanics.

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Because it has other ramifications than just healer balance.

For example, if WHM could negate a Tankbuster. What's stopping WAR from being able to now solo tank everything using their own tools in addition to this WHM mechanic?

What happens to a job like SCH who's current benefit is being able to provide shields to pre-emptively mitigate mechanics if WHM can just cheese through them instead?

What if WHM can allow for BLM to not have to move as much by simply negating mechanics and creating a meta around BLM standing in one spot and maximizing their massive damage potential?

What happens to Tank and Healer Limit Breaks if WHM can simply just do them as part of their normal kit?

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

The only blasphemous part of the whole scenario is that there'd be a different way to tackle a mechanic or encounter and we apparently can't have that. SE is all about following a script.

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The issue is not that it's a "Different way" to do things, but rather that balancing such a thing is difficult.

You have to make these unique (Non-directly damage boosting) utilities be worth as much as the 2 other healers (Direct damage boost) utilities. Whilst also not tuning them to the point of being broken in their core design (Thus creating another poor situation such as 1 Tank or 1 Healer composition metas)

And maintaining Healer parity so that WHM isn't inherently better with a particular co-healer (Such as if they could cheese mechanics, then SCH is less wanted because of their mechanic mitigation is less desired)

Not sure where it would fit as a healer identity, but having a disc style healer in FFXIV would be fun. Never been much of a healer fan, but disc priest in WoW was extremely enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Not sure where it would fit as a healer identity, but having a disc style healer in FFXIV would be fun. Never been much of a healer fan, but disc priest in WoW was extremely enjoyable.

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What iteration of Disc Priest?

Bubble Priest?
Atonement Priest?
Penance Priest?

That spec has been through the wringer and then some xD

Which, I guess is to be expected on a class that has 2 healing specs... Gotta mix things up between them somehow.

I feel another good way to give identity to a healer is how they go about regaining mana. Personally, I think the current WHM lilly system could be greatly improved by making it a mana recovery mechanic instead of an unneeded extra healing ability.

Scholars could regain mana by sacrificing their fairy. This will cause them to regain mana at a steady rate. When the healer feels they have enough mana back, they may resummon the fairy at no mana cost.

Astrologians could have an extra card in their deck, that when used, would remove all existing buffs and destroy all card in their hand, but restore their mana to full.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

I feel another good way to give identity to a healer is how they go about regaining mana. Personally, I think the current WHM lilly system could be greatly improved by making it a mana recovery mechanic instead of an unneeded extra healing ability.

Scholars could regain mana by sacrificing their fairy. This will cause them to regain mana at a steady rate. When the healer feels they have enough mana back, they may resummon the fairy at no mana cost.

Astrologians could have an extra card in their deck, that when used, would remove all existing buffs and destroy all card in their hand, but restore their mana to full.

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so basically, whm and sch get no mp issues, but ast has to rely on rng to keep up

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Originally Posted by lordcruxis

so basically, whm and sch get no mp issues, but ast has to rely on rng to keep up

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Not really. WHM would have to balance how much mana they have versus the amount of healing needed.

If their mana is too low they'd have to cast several cures to get the lilies full. But, cure remains a weak heal.

So, it is a choice. Negligible healing or risk using more mana?

The WHM would spend their lilies to get a portion of their mana back. One lily 10%, two lilies 25%, three lilies 40%.

To go further regarding SCH, I feel the player should have weaker heals but very good shields with the fairy providing the majority of healing and buffs. So, the SCH has to decide between regaining mana or not having heals to supplement their mitigation.

They'd have to go a certain length of time without that extra buffing and healing before they are up to full mana. But, they can summon their fairy anytime.

But the SCH would receive less mp. The summon of the fairy would be free of cost because why take away the mana they sacrificed Eos/Selene for to begin with?

It'll still cost a global for the summon though. The time to regain full mana could be twelve seconds.

AST would automatically have the full mana card in their hand first draw. They'd have an extra slot to hold this card for when they need it. Their abilities would cost more mana but not excessively.

Meanwhile, the buffs AST casts would be more meaningful in the instance/raid environment. So, the decision to play the full mana card becomes meaningful.

After the first use of the full mana card, it is random when the ASTR will pull another one but they would still be able to hold it as a regular card or in its special slot.

The idea is to bring in the minigame of mana management to the healing in this game while keeping healing interesting versus the current minigame of dps versus healing.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

To go further regarding SCH, I feel the player should have weaker heals

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SCH already has the weakest heals out of everyone. Why do you think they get a OP Fairy that needs to be balanced better?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

What iteration of Disc Priest?

Bubble Priest?
Atonement Priest?
Penance Priest?

That spec has been through the wringer and then some xD

Which, I guess is to be expected on a class that has 2 healing specs... Gotta mix things up between them somehow.

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This is true, version I was most fond of was Atonement, so I guess the current version of disc 8.0 on.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

SCH already has the weakest heals out of everyone. Why do you think they get a OP Fairy that needs to be balanced better?

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Oh, I realize I wasn't clear! Sorry. What I meant was scholars should have weaker heals than WHM and AST. They certainly don't need a nerf in that department.

Eos needs some adjustment but Selene needs help. Either way, I feel the act of sacrificing the fairy should be a tactic to regain mana.

Not sure if many have already seen the Instagram post, or if this is the right thread to bring it up, but it seem like we (WHMs) might get Morpho butterflies in 5.0.

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https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw8tFlnlmQl/

This is just speculation, but I wonder if there is anything to infer from the flavor text on the Morpho minion(?):

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With blue wings practically glowing, this butterfly feels almost like a spirit. Almost.

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The wings of this butterfly were highly sought-after during the War of the Magi, as their scales could be used to make poison that inhibited the restoration of magical energy. As a result, they were hunted to near extinction, and now very few remain.

The War of the Magi must have been a conflict of truly terrifying proportions. - E-Sumi-Yan

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Edit to add: The green glow around the WHM looks a lot like an Adloquium shield, so that's probably not part of the WHM spell.

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

Not sure if many have already seen the Instagram post, or if this is the right thread to bring it up, but it seem like we (WHMs) might get Morpho butterflies in 5.0.

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Would make sens as it is Amdapor-related. Whats buzzes me is how spread they are, relative to the White Mage. Could be a raid buff (omg) where each affected party member is healed or buffed by a personal Morpho (that could be cool).
Unless once again, it's a SCH ability they stole during their trip in Amdapor too ;)

(or it's just an open-world fate and players have the Morpho minion out just for trolling)

Ahhh I'm not bright with ideas when it comes to balancing and stuff like most people in the thread, but White Mage would for sure be a lot more fun with buffs. Give Stoneskin back, make Protect a non-lazy skill, I dunno! I love White Mage's raw healing and it could be very satisfying to heal through heavy damage, but there are more instances of overhealing, and I get so bored with rotations that I'm reapplying regens before the previous ones even expire ._.

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Originally Posted by griffinborn

Ahhh I'm not bright with ideas when it comes to balancing and stuff like most people in the thread, but White Mage would for sure be a lot more fun with buffs. Give Stoneskin back, make Protect a non-lazy skill, I dunno! I love White Mage's raw healing and it could be very satisfying to heal through heavy damage, but there are more instances of overhealing, and I get so bored with rotations that I'm reapplying regens before the previous ones even expire ._.

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Hi Griffinborn,

You have touched upon the fundamental issue white mages face. They are meant to be the purest healer but the game doesn't have content for that type of healer.

And, if S.E. did develop content where white mages could use their abilities to the fullest, it wouldn't be fair to scholars and astrologians, because white mage + white mage would become the meta.

I'm pulling up a chair and waiting to see what changes are on the horizon.

My two cents on this topic are as follows; AST is so much fun because of the card system.... its engaging. The other two healers need job systems that are similarly as engaging but not the same thing.

I expect all healers to have access to both mitigative and regen healing in 5.0

Is it bad, as a healer, that I don't care about DPS like all the other Healers do? I mean I dps and do my deeps but at the end of the day, I want to support, buff and heal.
I don't want to take roll away from a DPS. I want to heal the party and keep them alive.

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Originally Posted by NebulaStarsong

Is it bad, as a healer, that I don't care about DPS like all the other Healers do? I mean I dps and do my deeps but at the end of the day, I want to support, buff and heal.
I don't want to take roll away from a DPS. I want to heal the party and keep them alive.

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I guess to achieve that. Mobs need to hit a lot harder then they actually do at this point with less "breaks" in between so you don't even have time to think about dps.

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Originally Posted by Sorimachi87

I guess to achieve that. Mobs need to hit a lot harder then they actually do at this point with less "breaks" in between so you don't even have time to think about dps.

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The issue then becomes that the people who can't even handle the incoming damage now just can't play healers anymore.

I had to Vercure to stay alive in Ghymlit the other day, a place I usual heal with oGCDs and Regen. Some people just... can't apparently.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

The issue then becomes that the people who can't even handle the incoming damage now just can't play healers anymore.

I had to Vercure to stay alive in Ghymlit the other day, a place I usual heal with oGCDs and Regen. Some people just... can't apparently.

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I get your point there. And theres the possibility with HPS training on dummies then. Some threads were made in the past by that (one by me)
Then again. I am a bloody casual so i probably disqualify myself to give a proper opinion to this. Considering i have avoided most extremes and all of savage.

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Originally Posted by Sorimachi87

I get your point there. And theres the possibility with HPS training on dummies then. Some threads were made in the past by that (one by me)
Then again. I am a bloody casual so i probably disqualify myself to give a proper opinion to this. Considering i have avoided most extremes and all of savage.

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Not at all, I know players who have never gone beyond like o9s this tier who are still very well-versed on the ways healers interact. Understanding and application are two different things, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

My concern with this is just the idea that SE seems dead set on making the skill floor as low as humanly possible (hence this predictable damage model with a ton of oGCD abilities that could be held by an inexperienced healer as emergency buttons and no official stance on healer dps) so the idea of them dramatically increasing the difficulty of the base function of healers feels unlikely to me.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

The issue then becomes that the people who can't even handle the incoming damage now just can't play healers anymore.

I had to Vercure to stay alive in Ghymlit the other day, a place I usual heal with oGCDs and Regen. Some people just... can't apparently.

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My question is is that the reason though. Or are the they getting tunnel vision with dpsing? In which focusing on heals might solve some issues.

Or are they dps players getting faster queues? Had a healer the other day say they suck at heals but only play healer in dungeons for faster queues since they can usually just dps when a player died due to unavoidable damage fighting the mist dragon. If having to heal more ran those types of healers off and back to the role they really want to do I’d be ok with it.

Edit. I like being able to throw dps as a healer, but I am actually ok with healing requirements to increase so that I have to heal way more than dps. Hell it might be nice if they had to make like the sleep spells become role skills and then players have to do more than just round up large pulls and aoe dps everything down repeatedly. Making it some pulls need to be small and focused/ cc, some pulls that are large, some that single pull mini bosses to mix it up.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

My question is is that the reason though. Or are the they getting tunnel vision with dpsing? In which focusing on heals might solve some issues.

Or are they dps players getting faster queues? Had a healer the other day say they suck at heals but only play healer in dungeons for faster queues since they can usually just dps when a player died due to unavoidable damage fighting the mist dragon. If having to heal more ran those types of healers off and back to the role they really want to do I’d be ok with it.

Edit. I like being able to throw dps as a healer, but I am actually ok with healing requirements to increase so that I have to heal way more than dps. Hell it might be nice if they had to make like the sleep spells become role skills and then players have to do more than just round up large pulls and aoe dps everything down repeatedly. Making it some pulls need to be small and focused/ cc, some pulls that are large, some that single pull mini bosses to mix it up.

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As it stands for me, i am doing dps whenever i can, sometimes though i miss the moment to switch back to healing.. likely resulting in someone dieing if i am not quick enough with Tetragrammaton or Benediction.

I dont think going to coordinated pulls now is a good idea. They would have needed to do that from the start. As it stands now, at least in duty finder dungeons, the goal is to reach it as fast as possible. (Thats community made, i know that)
Lets wait for the next live letter and the combat changes that are coming with it.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Not at all, I know players who have never gone beyond like o9s this tier who are still very well-versed on the ways healers interact. Understanding and application are two different things, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

My concern with this is just the idea that SE seems dead set on making the skill floor as low as humanly possible (hence this predictable damage model with a ton of oGCD abilities that could be held by an inexperienced healer as emergency buttons and no official stance on healer dps) so the idea of them dramatically increasing the difficulty of the base function of healers feels unlikely to me.

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Thanks for your statement. I think we should wait for the liveletter though. So far they have said absolutely ?nothing about combat changes right?

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Originally Posted by Sorimachi87

Thanks for your statement. I think we should wait for the liveletter though. So far they have said absolutely ?nothing about combat changes right?

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I feel like it was quite a while ago now, and maybe it was very tentative but were were told a couple of things.
Firstly that role skills were being either completely reworked, or removed entirely, and also that the UI was getting updated to display HP shields, which I feel would imply some work to HP shields and perhaps all healers having some access to them, and perhaps their interaction will change.
Plus the loss of TP obviously.

It might be that HP shields are nerfed in some way, as a trade off for healers being able to stack their shields. Maybe they have some kind of diminishing returns or something. Or it might just be that in order to dispel the regen/shield healer dichotomy, all healers have access to both (just give WHM Shell) which means being more careful not to waste shields and so their display on the UI becomes more important.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

UI was getting updated to display HP shields.
It might be that HP shields are nerfed in some way, as a trade off for healers being able to stack their shields. Maybe they have some kind of diminishing returns or something. .

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Happy to hear they may be showing the shield health. I felt this should have been added in when shields first came into play.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I feel like it was quite a while ago now, and maybe it was very tentative but were were told a couple of things.
Firstly that role skills were being either completely reworked, or removed entirely, and also that the UI was getting updated to display HP shields, which I feel would imply some work to HP shields and perhaps all healers having some access to them, and perhaps their interaction will change.
Plus the loss of TP obviously.

It might be that HP shields are nerfed in some way, as a trade off for healers being able to stack their shields. Maybe they have some kind of diminishing returns or something. Or it might just be that in order to dispel the regen/shield healer dichotomy, all healers have access to both (just give WHM Shell) which means being more careful not to waste shields and so their display on the UI becomes more important.

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Oh okay. Appreciate the Info. Guess i can't keep track of what happens when.. ^^"
Super excited for the live letter though. Although i'll be at work :/

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Originally Posted by Feidam

My question is is that the reason though. Or are the they getting tunnel vision with dpsing? In which focusing on heals might solve some issues.

Or are they dps players getting faster queues? Had a healer the other day say they suck at heals but only play healer in dungeons for faster queues since they can usually just dps when a player died due to unavoidable damage fighting the mist dragon. If having to heal more ran those types of healers off and back to the role they really want to do I’d be ok with it.

Edit. I like being able to throw dps as a healer, but I am actually ok with healing requirements to increase so that I have to heal way more than dps. Hell it might be nice if they had to make like the sleep spells become role skills and then players have to do more than just round up large pulls and aoe dps everything down repeatedly. Making it some pulls need to be small and focused/ cc, some pulls that are large, some that single pull mini bosses to mix it up.

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Purely anecdotal (though what isn't in this game really) but the healers I see failing to keep up with the healing needs of their parties are rarely doing any dps at all.

I won't act like tunnel visioning on dps doesn't happen but there are very few things that hit hard enough in a dungeon to result in a tank's death and healers who do considerable dps are usually aware of these things. I'll admit I have less bad healers than most people since I often heal things myself but the ones I do see are the ones who are moving around a lot, healing with inefficient tools/massively overhealing and getting caught in avoidable damage themselves.

tl;dr- People who are aware enough to do damage as a healer are also usually aware of their oGCD tools. Mismanagement of those tools can sometimes result in deaths but more often than not it's the people who aren't knowledgeable about all their healing options who let people die.

As far as increasing healing requirements I'm unopposed to it on the grounds that it's in content with some kind of gate on it. Expert roulette is painful enough now when I can pull decent dps numbers as a WHM, taking that away from me means when I'm paired with a tank-stance-tank and clueless dps turns 20min dungeons into 30 minute tragedies. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

The issue then becomes that the people who can't even handle the incoming damage now just can't play healers anymore.

I had to Vercure to stay alive in Ghymlit the other day, a place I usual heal with oGCDs and Regen. Some people just... can't apparently.

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The thing is... people who aren't handle of doing more than occasionally pressing Cure II shouldn't be able to continue until they learn. By making the game easier and easier, it removes any incentive for people to learn. Why bother getting better when the game offers up participation trophies left, right and center? What the devs fail to realize is they can insist a hundred times over healer DPS isn't a requirement. So long as said requirements remain extremely lax, the community will expect it.

When even Ultimate allows for half your casts to be on DPS abilities. I think we need to reconsider healing requirements. In fact, friends and I did GD without a healer. WAR and three DPS. Did all the huge pulls, no problem. That's how easy dungeons are.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The thing is... people who aren't handle of doing more than occasionally pressing Cure II shouldn't be able to continue until they learn. By making the game easier and easier, it removes any incentive for people to learn. Why bother getting better when the game offers up participation trophies left, right and center? What the devs fail to realize is they can insist a hundred times over healer DPS isn't a requirement. So long as said requirements remain extremely lax, the community will expect it.

When even Ultimate allows for half your casts to be on DPS abilities. I think we need to reconsider healing requirements. In fact, friends and I did GD without a healer. WAR and three DPS. Did all the huge pulls, no problem. That's how easy dungeons are.

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I'm not arguing from a moral perspective ("It shouldn't get harder, please everyone won't you think of the bad healers?") but rather just what I see as a realistic one; SE has appeared very consistent on the idea that they don't want to force people to improve and so expecting them to do so doesn't fit the narrative.

I agree that it could be a fun thing but I just don't see it as realistic given the current state of the game/dev team.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Purely anecdotal (though what isn't in this game really) but the healers I see failing to keep up with the healing needs of their parties are rarely doing any dps at all.

I won't act like tunnel visioning on dps doesn't happen but there are very few things that hit hard enough in a dungeon to result in a tank's death and healers who do considerable dps are usually aware of these things. I'll admit I have less bad healers than most people since I often heal things myself but the ones I do see are the ones who are moving around a lot, healing with inefficient tools/massively overhealing and getting caught in avoidable damage themselves.

tl;dr- People who are aware enough to do damage as a healer are also usually aware of their oGCD tools. Mismanagement of those tools can sometimes result in deaths but more often than not it's the people who aren't knowledgeable about all their healing options who let people die.

As far as increasing healing requirements I'm unopposed to it on the grounds that it's in content with some kind of gate on it. Expert roulette is painful enough now when I can pull decent dps numbers as a WHM, taking that away from me means when I'm paired with a tank-stance-tank and clueless dps turns 20min dungeons into 30 minute tragedies. No thanks.

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Oh I wasn’t suggesting that those questions were the only right answer. Just that it goes way beyond just a healer not paying attention. And of course it is anecdotal as every player has had his or her own experiences.

If they keep the content easy the some people don’t even try and nothing with change. That’s why i’m actually a proponent of a higher lvl of dungeon for those that want a bit challenge in the four man dungeons. That way the casual base has the standard dungeons and those that like more have the higher ones. Exactly how to implement it would need to be worked out but it would solve some issues.

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Originally Posted by vexus

So I know this will be an unpopular opinion, however I am not really mad about not getting a healer (I cant lie I was originally).

However in my opinion, if we want a fourth healer something needs done about the current healers identity not their balance. Currently we have a cornerstone built with the current healers that makes it almost impossible for SE to expand upon. So my question is why don't they do exactly what they are going to do with Tanks? Draw a line in the sand and say these classes are "Off Healers" and these ones are "Main Healers"?

One way I see to do it throughout the 5.0 expansion would be to make some core class changes.

SCH: In my opinion they need to embrace the oGCD healing.
1. Get rid of Succor, Adlo, Sacred Soil, someone else can have shields.
2. Give the SCH heals based around our Atherflow stacks. (Well balance the ones they have)
3. Consolidate Eos / Selene and trim the abilities they get.
4. Give a more engaging DPS rotation.

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Am I saying this would go over well with the masses? Probably not at first, as people are pretty attached to the current healers. I am also not saying that these changes shouldn't come without nerfs and buffs, I am a SCH main myself but I am not so blind as to not see they are a bit OP right now. What I am saying however, is I think with the current state of healing, and how similar all the healers feel is hindering the ability for SE to create a new class that would be fun and original.

Please let me know what you think, about these concepts, and about the current state of healers. I personally am hoping for big reworks come 5.0!

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Yuck. These are terrible suggested changes. I am against the attempts to dumb down the SCH class like what I see being proposed here. I really hope they don't screw this patch up and destroy a class I enjoy playing right now...of the proposed changes I hate the consolidation of our fairies the most, but getting rid of Succor AND Sacred Soil is crazy. Horrible.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Would make sens as it is Amdapor-related. Whats buzzes me is how spread they are, relative to the White Mage. Could be a raid buff (omg) where each affected party member is healed or buffed by a personal Morpho (that could be cool).
Unless once again, it's a SCH ability they stole during their trip in Amdapor too ;)

(or it's just an open-world fate and players have the Morpho minion out just for trolling)

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You were right, the butterflies was Scholar's, and I'm not unhappy about that all :)
Seeing the WHM actions on the Live Letter I'm quite happy about what they've shown visually :D