How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

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The weapons BEFORE were much better designed.

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...they where ? I remember almost no bonus on mage weapons, not mentioning stats where completely broken outside vit and mp.
how they were better?

It seems to me this stat system is geared for casual play

I approve!

I don't need to go out of my way and spend exorbitant amounts of gil in gear and preparation to stand a chance at beating an end game boss or being able to support my fellow party members enough to keep the fight going.

What you're asking for is called "digression" and "hardcore attributes" both of which FFXIV has nothing to do with.

Fortunately for you, several other MMOs have the aforementioned traits amongst MANY others that you will undoubtedly enjoy, so how about giving them a try instead of asking for a casual game to convert into a hardcore FFXI-HD oriented MMO.

With that being said, i'm sure some slight balancing is in order, but nothing drastic as suggested here...

/end thread

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Originally Posted by djjdiss

What you're asking for is called "digression" and "hardcore attributes" both of which FFXIV has nothing to do with.

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remember digression for some is progression for others. the stats do need to matter more. the mage weapons should be better at higher levels.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

remember digression for some is progression for others. the stats do need to matter more. the mage weapons should be better at higher levels.

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If the change in question involves adopting an antiquated numbers system, then it's digression.

If the change involves the creation of an entirely new and balanced system that, let's just say jobs making stats play a larger role while classes remain as is, then I might consider that progression.

Anything that is based off the old grind style gameplay, is definitely digression.

I hope the FFXIV team finds a new and creative way to reward players that want to maximize.

Maybe this entails replacing stats with things like: "Makes DRG attack skills more powerful" type of gear/player stats accompanied by my other idea

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post526527

Could be implemented to allow for a more customizable and progressive approach to stat maxing.

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Something's wrong when the "Best weapons" of the game are arguably worse than some of the level 30 weapons.

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Massive HQ elemental staff nostalgia. "Right" or "Wrong", that worked plenty well.

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the mage weapons should be better

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Multi infuse INT into a lightning brand, then reconsider that statement.

Oh and OP, it's nice that you provided data, but the magic accuracy scepter line on even match mobs...what were you expecting?

The average THM's inability to tell that they don't need to use the same magic acc on even match mobs as they do on Ifrit is very sad.

Just saying and not even sure of that. But I think the problem OP saw is that:

Mages weapon probably already have a base macig acc/potency on it.

Before idk which update, you had magic stats on mages weapon such as magic potency: 136 magic accu : 130 etc

After update, they've put dps stats on mages weapon instead of old magic stats. And it seems that atm, lv 1 weapon might have about the same base magic potency than a r50 weapon.

But i guess SE probably did it on purpose since you can't put III and IV materias on R1 weapon so it's still balanced...

Except that it's not "balanced". It's actually just really lazy >.>

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Except that it's not "balanced". It's actually just really lazy >.>

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True xD But at least if you go fight with full materia R10 staff and with full materia R50 staff you should notice a difference.. better than nothing I guess.

The point isn't about materia though, it is about the weapon itself. A blank Lv1 weapon and a blank Lv50 weapon for mages do the same thing :p That's what the discussion was about lol

I'm sorry. I should specify. I don't believe mage weapons are "Broken" since they work. I just believe they are optimized terribly, and don't even scale properly.


The elemental staves were an except, because they were special items which had a very special effect. They were like the brands. I doubt anyone is going to argue that the brand's dont have a place in their usefulness. However since gear swapping is not available in this game, it's a very differen't scenario, and if you have on a Brand you are (supposed to be) lacking in all of the other elements.


I stated that weapon itemization was done better before the Item patch (With cobalt felt etc added)

The level 1 weathered weapon had stats such as 10 MAP 10 MACC 10 MCRIT. no melee stats. And then the Verdant scepter would have 212 MAP 10 MACC and 10 MCRIT. Likewise the brands would have like 190 MAP 10 MACC and 10 MCRIT while giving +30 for a certain element.

Now? The moogle weapon is +20 MACC and +15 MCRIT Not able to affix materia.

Yew Crook, level 25. +10 MACC +20 MCRIT. Able to affix materia. You could put on 1 Tier 2 MATERIA on a level TWENTY FIVE weapon, and it becomes the equivalent of the hardest-to-obtain weapon in the game.


Do you guys not see the insanity of this? I'm not sure what's not entirely clear.

No they see the problem, just not the insanity part. Not willing to concede that the system has a major flaw here in just a product of playing XI and XIV and not seeing anything 'wrong' with the system. It is what it is and everyone's entitled to their opinion, but as I relayed earlier, the current system is very short-sighted in general. It needs a lot of work and a tweak like this is one of them.

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Originally Posted by OriginalHungerforce

You're still not getting the point, and I doubt your neanderthal mind ever will. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with materia. Look at the below scenario.

This is all without materia

LVL 50 LNC with lvl 1 spear does probably 20 dmg with wc
LVL 50 LNC with lvl 50 spear does about 200 dmg with wc

LVL 50 THM with lvl 1 scepter does 500 dmg with spell
LVL 50 THM with lvl 50 scepter does 520 dmg with spell

Do you not see the problem? Melee dmg is scaled with the weapon lvl. Magic dmg is not. No matter what additional stats are on it the dmg difference is laughable.

IMO you just made yourself look like even more of an idiot bringing up materia again. Because this discussion still has nothing to do with materia.

Now if you wanted to add materia the Melee dmg scales even further with the weapon. The magic damage scaling is still pretty negligible.

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This is because with Mage YOU are the weapon

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Originally Posted by Ursok

This is because with Mage YOU are the weapon

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No. That's not how it works. By your logic the lancer's situation should be the same. Mages have WEAPONS because they are focuses for their powers. The same as a lancer has a lance to focus their own strength.

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Originally Posted by Ursok

This is because with Mage YOU are the weapon

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Totally this! With dps, your dmgs depends of the weapon's level/stats. Since last update, with mages, the "base magic potency" is no longer on the weapon it's on you. It only depends of your level. The only thing that makes weapons useful is the added stats on it. There is no longer a base magic potency on mages weapon. It's scaled on YOUR level only. Even if you had no weapon you'll (I know it isnt possible in this game but it's an exemple) do same dmgs than an other thm with R50 weapon w/o additionnal stats

Edit: I think it was the same thing in ffxi. If I remmember well, you could cast w/o any weapon which means you were the weapon too. Staves just added some stats.

People complain about stats alot and yes they need to be fixed. But their is a difference between peoples dmg person to person. I've parsed countless moogle and ifrit's and rarely ever have some one "less geared" beat my damage. Also when i played LNC before gearing, "better geared" LNC would often beat me. So it's not as bad as people make it out to be. and 5STR 5ATK dif above someone mentioned..name one game that small a margin made a difference. Whether my parse results are mostly due to player play style an dknowledge or stats or both who knows but. There are ways to do your job right and do top dmg.

Sry edit the above was mostly about DD whereas this is a mage post and i forgot to say yes the weapons are a lil iff but, these weapons do have stats on them, some more then others. If the way it is doesnt work for you, why not just look at the rest of your gear just like my DD section rant their i've seen different caliber of THM's to. Besides..sure you guys played 11, how many weapons actually helped and how many did you use for years and years...yep.

Idk if it was mentioned but I think the op is forgetting about se love for stat multipliers made un example thunder dmg = total int times magic base dmg, where a 5 stat diff on a staff would alter dmg output very nicely. Please dont rage on my simple example as im using it to make a point, all experienced ffxi players know the formulas are not that easy, caster depend more on overall gear stats not just the weapon, I guess melee depends more on the weapon dmg than on the gear stats

This is what 90% of the the replies are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7Lq...eature=related

people just don't understand

surely, this posts merely highlights how thm's base attack is way overpowered. THM THM THM THM ifrit runs are gay.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

No. That's not how it works. By your logic the lancer's situation should be the same. Mages have WEAPONS because they are focuses for their powers. The same as a lancer has a lance to focus their own strength.

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Actually. from what I gather... The difference between melee warriors whose attack power is dependant on their weapon and mages whose attack power is independant of their weapons is a style choice by the devs. That is, to make magic different from "MP-powered melee" they decided to go down this route.

It is not a specifically bad route at all. And I get the feeling that while you know exactly what your point is, you're telling people everything but what your point really is, a flaw that is present in 99% of the gamers, sadly. I do believe I am included too. In the end what seems to be the case is that mage weapons can't be measured how good they are by their base attack power, which is the general "eyeballing" value wherein one will judge a weapon's efficiency.

So perhaps the simplest choice is to merely increase the base attack power of mage weapons when they have better stat bonuses applied to them, and obviously throw a fair few curveballs there with mage weapons with lower attack power inconspicously(sp?) better stat bonuses that one only notices after they've experienced fiddling with the stats.

A better way to see this whole thingmajigger is instead of seeing the 'melee damage' of a mage weapon as their 'damage attribute' you look at, hum... Their INT bonus. Just mentally replace with with the other and you will see more or less how they are supposed to work. And I am fairly sure that the higher level mage weapons specifically have the better attribute bonuses? I'm not sure there, though, not a mage myself.