Who else is bored? Same Content and Formula...Was SB a waste of money?

The last 2 tomestones of SB:
allagan tomestone of boredom (uncap)
allagan tomestone of extreme boredom (450 then 900 then uncap with 5.0)

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Snip.

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Yep that was my favorite thing to do as well just run Mythic+ alll day with my friends for FFXIV it's do your normal raids > cap tomes > do your Savage for the week and weighing the content vs doing Mythics there's no cap to Mythics which is insane. I even remember my friends and I would sell or help people with their runs adding more incentives to do so, not to mention the rewards were so great if RNG was in your favor.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I think its funny people complain about doing the same things over and over in XIV for loot, but then point to WoW and Diablo 3 as better alternatives... where you do the sames things over and over for loot.

Does not compute.

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Diablo is fun for killing stuff, but I'm not super enthused about the loot. I mostly get fun out of spamming AoE abilities there.

I'm more confused on why people think that mmo expansions= new title. Why would you assume that they would abandon the current tome/raid gear formula that has worked for them for years? While I'm sure they have other forms of content in the works, the expansion is still in its infancy stage. I think it's a bit premature to go all chicken little when the expansion is still in its beginning stage. I think people need to stop expecting a brand new game everytime a expansion launches.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

My point isn't that FF14 should do the exact same thing as WoW, but that it should also use its world more.

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According to Yoshi-P in an interview with Reddit at PAX East earlier this year, the people that want the open world used are a small enough minority that they have no plans to do so:

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Matt Hilton: I think your question just boils down to there’s no open world content.
Reddit: Yes, that’s a big part of the question.
Yoshi-P: We understand the demand for it. But we’re not Final Fantasy XI (room laughs) so we don’t have intentions of making it. I understand personally, because I grew up playing that style of game. But when it boils down to where a whole lot of people that desire that kind of content, that’s not the case. Just imagine back in the 11 days, when you were trying to gather a party how long did it take to gather your party? But nowadays you wait 20 minutes on a Duty Finder, and people are complaining. Would a whole bunch of people desire content where you would go out of the way to enter into the field to feed a particular monster to open and trigger the content, and go through all that hassle it might not be the case. And also if we were to implement it as requested, I’m sure there’ll be backlash like “oh it’s too much of a hassle” or “too much of a pain”. But I totally understand your sentiment, it just might be the minority.

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Originally Posted by Selova

I'm more confused on why people think that mmo expansions= new title. Why would you assume that they would abandon the current tome/raid gear formula that has worked for them for years?

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Dont want to be a hater but srsly the game would be free2play or very low on population if the company werent SE. If this game dont were FF Franchise it would never be so "healthy".

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Originally Posted by Selova

I'm more confused on why people think that mmo expansions= new title. Why would you assume that they would abandon the current tome/raid gear formula that has worked for them for years? While I'm sure they have other forms of content in the works, the expansion is still in its infancy stage. I think it's a bit premature to go all chicken little when the expansion is still in its beginning stage. I think people need to stop expecting a brand new game everytime a expansion launches.

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People don't wanna brand new game, but they would like the system to shake up and weave around it from there.
We've been doing the same junk for years now...It's tiresome. They don't make the same content any different from the previous.


As response to the guy with streaming FFXIV - No, it's not fun. I tune into VeryMerri and it's fun hanging out with him
but it's not fun watching him play a game that I already play and doing the same stuff I'm bored with. :/
It's fun in a social aspect and chilling with streamers but watching them actually play isn't that exhilarating.
Unless you're watching Savage raiding to learn I guess...
(No offense to VeryMerri, I did have him subbed but his schedule clashes with mine so I can no longer watch him. ): Very fun and kind streamer! )
FFXIV is not fun to watch because it's barely fun to play now.

I'm quite the opposite I'm overhelmed with the amount of stuff I need to do, mostly related to crafting and gathering running savage with my static I haven't even cap tomes for the past 2 weeks neither I care because I'm busy doing everything else. if you feel burn out take a break. I was during heavensward took a break of 200+ days when me and my girlfriend (the owner of this account) came back we can't help but play everything and enjoy everything again. MMO's and anything in life if you get too much repeately of something no matter how much you like it after a while it will get tedious if you don't break that routine, that being said it's mostly your fault you have more than enough content that no other game offers and as often if you can't manage to break the monotony because you decided that you don't want to do anything else then take a break. simple.

I think the issue is how people percieve expansions and how they are actually done. I havent played any other mmo so I can say if this is the norm, but we've only seen the first part of the stormblood expansion which will continue for another year or so until 5.0

If you bough an expansion for a single player game it would be complete (not always the case nowerdays but you get my point).
Where in FFXIV we've only been given a tiny bit. This could be due to deadlines or whatever but at the other extreme would be to wait another year or so and get all of the 4.0 content at once.

If you looked at it from someones view who is just starting HW it would seem huge but it was the same as we are now when that launched.

Do I think they need to add more replayable content? Absolutely. I also think they should have included a new concept of gameplay like (whatevers replacing diadem forgot what its called) in the initial release.

And a change in the formula wouldn't go amiss, I really dont know why its so successful when its painfully boring.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

According to Yoshi-P in an interview with Reddit at PAX East earlier this year, the people that want the open world used are a small enough minority that they have no plans to do so:

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While I would never want it to be what FFXI was, it's disappointing to see an aversion to the open world. Frankly, I've never liked dungeons/raids, so more things that aren't that would be great. :-(
More instanced content that isn't just a single, linear run to the end would be alright as well though.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

Aldora /clap at SE.

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Finally! Someone doing it.
MADJAM / clap at SE.
+1

Is there anything to add?
Lock the tread, already!

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Originally Posted by MADJAM

Finally! Someone doing it.
MADJAM / clap at SE.
+1

Is there anything to add?
Lock the tread, already!

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Because of the game's reliance on currency and gil being fairly easily to come by, running dungeon for the hell of it isn't really something that is common to do. notice how many people had to be coaxed back into playing the adventurer in need bonus? how many various ways get introduced toale players run that overdone content one more time? That is also a product of having people spam content out the gate. There has to be something there for them, or they will not go.

Likewise, I tend not to do dungeons if I am capped on tomes. I don't like being there, I just see it as something they push constantly for tomes.

Then before you know it, you are on your 50th run of ala mihgo, wondering why you are doing this yet again.

Legion was absolutely awful. I will admit I was a fan of Mythic+ Dungeons but I absolutely hated Titanforged gear. What's that? You killed Mythic Xavius and got some 820 pants? Haha, I did a World Quest and got those too. And then there was the Broken
Isles update which just added more dailies and a useless currency players could spend on gear tokens that could Titanforge and beat Nighthold gear. You got a new weekly daily quest from Khad'gar the shit wizard and had to wait nearly 2 months for Tomb. The only thing I enjoyed from Legion was the Mage Tower quest for your Artifact Appearance look, but even that got easier with better gear.

Stormblood? More like StormDUD amirite?!?!

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Originally Posted by Ibi

According to Yoshi-P in an interview with Reddit at PAX East earlier this year, the people that want the open world used are a small enough minority that they have no plans to do so:

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That's a relief. The open world is not something I want to deal with, I have other games that I can play for solo open world content. (Because let's be honest, forced grouping open world is absolutely atrocious.)

Solo open world stuff is barely palatable, forced grouping would be nauseous.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks this

Honestly, I wish World of Warcraft had player housing. I would go back to that game in an instant even though I prefer the aesthetics of this game. The max level content is just a treadmill of dull tome caps and artificial gates locking you out of progression. Its a stupid design that should have been abandoned in HW, not carried over to SB to continue the same dreary formula.

At this point, I'm considering leaving anyway. Just let my fc house get reclaimed and take my business elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Honestly, I wish World of Warcraft had player housing. I would go back to that game in an instant even though I prefer the aesthetics of this game. The max level content is just a treadmill of dull tome caps and artificial gates locking you out of progression. Its a stupid design that should have been abandoned in HW, not carried over to SB to continue the same dreary formula.

At this point, I'm considering leaving anyway. Just let my fc house get reclaimed and take my business elsewhere.

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Yoshi tailors this game "Play a little at a time and if you're bored then go play something else."
If he thinks that way, then why sub this game? I wish they removed tome locks too. People will be bored whether not it's unlocked.
I love this game but if I can't see change in half way to 5.0 I'ma just quit until then. They need to step it up.
I would be extremely upset if they continued this route in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Selova

I'm more confused on why people think that mmo expansions= new title. Why would you assume that they would abandon the current tome/raid gear formula that has worked for them for years? While I'm sure they have other forms of content in the works, the expansion is still in its infancy stage. I think it's a bit premature to go all chicken little when the expansion is still in its beginning stage. I think people need to stop expecting a brand new game everytime a expansion launches.

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People do not want a brand new game, what they do not want is copy/pasted patches in SB that they used in 2.0 and 3.0. It is the same thing over and over and over again, run some dungeon 5 times a week, farm some ex for mount/weapon, craft some gear that is comparable to raid lock out/ better due to overmelding/better then the uncap tome, do a raid to upgrade the cap tome gear, and salvage. ... oh and mix in some rare fates for mounts/ minion/glam/ etc. It was fine for 2.0, *repeats the 450 tome thing, patches later*: experiment and see how it plays out, 3.0 *sees the same thing from 2.0 across patches* it was grown worthy, but ok i guess maybe they are developing something better in the future, SB : ok just stop enough is enough, do something different or the unsub is being hit. Doing the same copy/paste for 3 expansions is enough. (For me I would not unsub for this alone, I play more for friends and such, but it can be an added reason I do end up quitting. What I do isn't the point though, there are some on these forums that said they are thinking about unsubing over this, or have done so already The "I" here is supposed to refer to anyone that may be feeling the burn out of the treadmill and not myself.)

There is not enough to do, it is just copy/paste and people are sick of it now

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Originally Posted by Ibi

According to Yoshi-P in an interview with Reddit at PAX East earlier this year, the people that want the open world used are a small enough minority that they have no plans to do so:
Yoshi-P: We understand the demand for it. But we’re not Final Fantasy XI (room laughs) so we don’t have intentions of making it. I understand personally, because I grew up playing that style of game. But when it boils down to where a whole lot of people that desire that kind of content, that’s not the case. Just imagine back in the 11 days, when you were trying to gather a party how long did it take to gather your party? But nowadays you wait 20 minutes on a Duty Finder, and people are complaining. Would a whole bunch of people desire content where you would go out of the way to enter into the field to feed a particular monster to open and trigger the content, and go through all that hassle it might not be the case. And also if we were to implement it as requested, I’m sure there’ll be backlash like “oh it’s too much of a hassle” or “too much of a pain”. But I totally understand your sentiment, it just might be the minority.

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He is really out of touch with the common user, he needs to start having polls at the log in screen to see how much people would love something different.

Note this phrase specifically:
it just might be the minority.

and ofc not everyone is going to like something like that. It should be side content like hunts are, not a main gating thing, or a different option vs running the same DF over and over again

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Honestly, I wish World of Warcraft had player housing. I would go back to that game in an instant even though I prefer the aesthetics of this game. The max level content is just a treadmill of dull tome caps and artificial gates locking you out of progression. Its a stupid design that should have been abandoned in HW, not carried over to SB to continue the same dreary formula.

At this point, I'm considering leaving anyway. Just let my fc house get reclaimed and take my business elsewhere.

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Only way I'd go back to WoW is if they got rid of the insane AP grind. Artifact weapons and the AP grind really put me off WoW and the only saving grace was playing with my friends there, who eventually quit and then so did I.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Only way I'd go back to WoW is if they got rid of the insane AP grind. Artifact weapons and the AP grind really put me off WoW and the only saving grace was playing with my friends there, who eventually quit and then so did I.

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Not even considering going back to WoW, I'm with you there. The Artifact and RNG Legendaries put me off Legion entirely. I'm more or less considering giving up the MMO genre for good. There has to be something better around, its just a matter of finding it.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Actually yes the person that can play 10h+ a day should be rewarded more and be ahead of others. That is kind of the way the world works if you hadn't figured that out yet. You can put in 40 hours at your job and get payed the minimum for your position and not be considered for high value promotions. Or you can work 80 and be payed on the high end of the scale and be far more valued for promotions into management and leadership. Put in more effort and get more rewards, that is the very basis of our society today.

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This philosophy doesn't work in today's market. The largest gaming demographic average between 25-35, who typically have full time jobs. You will not attract this audience by and large if they are forever behind due to their real life obligations. Why do you think virtually every game has championed accessibility as top priority? They want your money. It's why WoW has progressively gotten easier, why Overwatch designed its loot system to be little more than aesthetics and collectibles, why nearly every 3rd shooter focuses on gameplay over stat progression. One of the first things people ridicule a game over is whether it has stats in its player competitive modes. A system that always people with limitless time to get ahead only hurts the bottom line long term as it makes the casual playerbase feel they have no chance of catching up. And at the end of the day, video games are a business first. What makes a profit is what they will do.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This philosophy doesn't work in today's market. The largest gaming demographic average between 25-35, who typically have full time jobs. You will not attract this audience by and large if they are forever behind due to their real life obligations. Why do you think virtually every game has championed accessibility as top priority?They want your money. It's why WoW has progressively gotten easier, why Overwatch designed its loot system to be little more than aesthetics and collectibles, why nearly every 3rd shooter focuses on gameplay over stat progression. One of the first things people ridicule a game over is whether it has stats in its player competitive modes. A system that always people with limitless time to get ahead only hurts the bottom line long term as it makes the casual playerbase feel they have no chance of catching up. And at the end of the day, video games are a business first. What makes a profit is what they will do.

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That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.

What is infuriating is you missing a day or week and you can never make that up, and that resentment lingers. I disagree with "This philosophy doesn't work in today's market" So for the bold, you are defeating your own argument, if it is a reference to weekly caps. People want to do things on their own time, not feeling an oblation to log in every day or be behind forever.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.

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So you wouldn't care about queueing into a game and being destroyed with no chance to fight back because you don't have time to play all day everyday? That's kinda what you're asking for here.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.
What is infuriating is you missing a day or week and you can never make that up, and that resentment lingers. I disagree with "This philosophy doesn't work in today's market" So for the bold, you are defeating your own argument, if it is a reference to weekly caps.

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... you can't even go a sentence contradicting yourself. First and foremost, tomestones are not comparable because they are restricted. You can play as little as two hours or twenty each week and you'll cap, provided you choose the right content. On the chance you do miss a week(s) along the way, you'll have alternative options through Savage raiding and odd numbered patches. The person I quoted cites a system where you'll never catch up unless the person ahead of you stops grinding. They are able to play longer and due to unrestricted progression will always be ahead of you. Currently, someone can be more skilled but XIV prevents any one player from obtaining a long term advantage over another. It advertises itself on that very premise. Most games do because yes, people do care. Overwatch wouldn't be as insanely popular if someone who started a year ago could trounce everyone by virtue of having played longer and nothing else. That is one of the reasons For Honor flopped. Excluding its horrendous servers, someone who played longer or sent more money would utterly destroy everyone else. Very few people find that fun.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

players on Twitch.

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Not sure this is a great metric, for a couple of reasons.

Some of the post-launch streams in the first month were sponsored streams (even for some that already actively play the game), which means there were more streams to be watched. Viewership at the start of a game or expansion tends to be at its highest, especially as the viewers watch to see the initial experiences or reactions. Once both of those begin to taper off and the FFXIV stream returns a more general day to day activity, viewership is absolutely going to drop off...

And this has nothing to do with whether the game has too little or too much content.

Throw in that some streamers that do FFXIV also stream other games, and once the expansion rush is over they tend to pick up with those more, and you have the far more likely reason behind the viewer drop off than the game doing the "same old same old."

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works...

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except for all those threads where people are asking for certain items to be limited /not available past certain times or not change the reqs for a hunt mount because then it won't be special.. or asking that dyeing be limited to savage gear only so that it's special.

people LOVE having things that other people don't and others WILL complain if they see that someone else has something they can't get.
You are very passionate about what you believe in (or what your sister believes in.. I'm not sure who is currently at the helm) , I admire that. But please don't state things that are obviously untrue.

Companies ARE constantly showing that "hey come play our game! you can play casual and still be competitive!" as a selling point. Even Wildstar , who advertised "true hardcore MMO playstyle" has toned it down a LOT to survive. The primary customer for online games has less time and more money nowadays, and gaming companies are smart to tap into that. ..

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So you wouldn't care about queueing into a game and being destroyed with no chance to fight back because you don't have time to play all day everyday? That's kinda what you're asking for here.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

... you can't even go a sentence contradicting yourself. First and foremost, tomestones are not comparable because they are restricted. You can play as little as two hours or twenty each week and you'll cap, provided you choose the right content. On the chance you do miss a week(s) along the way, you'll have alternative options through Savage raiding and odd numbered patches. The person I quoted cites a system where you'll never catch up unless the person ahead of you stops grinding. They are able to play longer and due to unrestricted progression will always be ahead of you. Currently, someone can be more skilled but XIV prevents any one player from obtaining a long term advantage over another. It advertises itself on that very premise. Most games do because yes, people do care. Overwatch wouldn't be as insanely popular if someone who started a year ago could trounce everyone by virtue of having played longer and nothing else. That is one of the reasons For Honor flopped. Excluding its horrendous servers, someone who played longer or sent more money would utterly destroy everyone else. Very few people find that fun.

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And you are wrong because once you have the best.. that is it? People will get whatever they need on their own time. I talk often in DF, read the novice chat and so on. People do not care about gear at all unless it is some ilevel gate, gating them from access. Most people do not care about "being destroyed", and the thing is, PvP is not gear dependent at all. Everyone has the same, regardless of gear, regardless if level 30 or level 70.

The only time gear is ever discussed is when someone has some off the wall extreme low level gear where it is notable by HP/ eyeballing low performance. I see more harassment over DPS values then the gear itself (because the gear is not the cause) like warriors doing more DPS then DPS classes, or healers pre SB (No idea if this is a thing now, I think the game is changed too much to give the opportunity, but I have not seen it.)

Overwatch is not a MNO, and I have no clue on that game regardless, so off the point. People may care in that game, I do not know, but people do not care in this one, past how hard or easy it is to access something (if you where unlucky early HW, it was hard to continue the MSQ for example, I can see SB will not share the same problems, because the job quest line gives you 290 gear while you get 288 gear guaranteed to you as drops, once a run, something that did not happen trying to break that i150 line back then. Slowing access does nothing other then frustrates those that care more about their performance, the average player of FFXIV does not, unless it is salvage. I met ONE person asking another for parse numbers in a lore farm, and I was changing between BLM and WHM trying to figure out what would move runs the fastest. The person was trying but unlikely did not know rotations or something. In the end their healer could not dps as well as I could and their DPS could not DPS as much as my BLM. I think I just continued the farm as WHM since my healer DPS was much better then near zero. Gear was not a factor and it rarely is when people have discuessions like this in DFs. THe only other time gear has somewhat an impact outsude exteme undergearing is when the tank is at min ilevel entry while trying to hold off hate of BIS DPS. It is possable but you really need to know what you are doing, and what place and time this happens in also matter. For example, a 290 tank would have more problems now if they face a mix of 320/330/340 (not sure what is highest possible) then compared a 290 tank vs 314~ ish dps back before 4.05

In those situations, there was never deweling on the gear itself, it was either the tank apologizing on the performance (most min level entry tanks are not exerts at play to being with, since they tend to be newer to be in that situation to begin with) or they are toxic and demand the DPS to hold back. Once I was with a decent geared tank kicked out by a premade duo over "pressing too much buttons" when I would steal hate 10 seconds after my quelling opener. I think you have a personal issue with people "gearing too fast" vs what the average player feels. If you want to go back to level 50, 2.0, i came in that game late and was kicked repeatly when I keep saying you need to make smaller pulls because I do not over gear (120) the place yet. Even then they still expected me to perform like I had GATED TIME GEAR, even though I couldn't from not be 50 long enough. That is the only time I seen a form of mocking of gear, along with seeing i270 required in pfs for simple things in HW.

People in this game for the most part only care about gear ilevel for access, they do not care if someone has more then them, or the rate they do it as far as gear, so based playing since this game 2.0 opening and all the times I stepped in the duty finder, talking to people, I find your premise false. People care about having minions, glam, and mounts more then having the best ilevel gear along with how to meld it.

I just had this convo with someone:
(shout) To be fair some of the XI stuff would be a nice addition to this game
Me (tell): your suggesting this game needs more content like ffxi offered many things to do yes?
(tell reply)> and a higher challenge rfor endgame serious raids yes

There isn't enough content in this game.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Snip.

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All the loot boxes give in OW is glamour, that's it. And just going to point it out, but your anecdote is just further proof that uncapping tomes is the worst thing they can do. You think it was bad then? Imagine how bad it would be and how quickly now if tomes weren't reasonably gated.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Only way I'd go back to WoW is if they got rid of the insane AP grind. Artifact weapons and the AP grind really put me off WoW and the only saving grace was playing with my friends there, who eventually quit and then so did I.

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To me the AP grind is actually very close to being a great thing. Ideally, something like that should give limitless time to do something that contributes to your character, but at a massively tapering rate so that casuals can have very nearly the same outputs. My issue with it was its effect on alts, which has never been handled even-handedly, even if it saw massive improvements in patch 7.25. Research should have been at least largely and automatically account-wide from the beginning, and spending on one spec's artifact should have reduced costs on the others'. Had it all just been handled more consistently and formulaicly, rather than seeing arbitrary fix-up changes every few patches, I'd have actually been quite happy with the Artifact system.

I'd actually tossed around similar ideas with friends concerning a Legend/Prestige system, partly categorical, partly general, partly job-based, partly discipline-wide, that has no actual gates or caps but just tapers the relative gains made in order to keep the maximum passive outputs of any given players of various durations of play or varying play efficiency close enough generally and for the contents they're participating in.

Oddly enough, 1.x already had this, in a way, save that it didn't allow you to use time played to increase the efficiency floor, making it unfair for players playing at extended rates but with interest in only one job—e.g. in maximal output or vertical gearing. It was called the fatigue system. Again, a system ruined by one aspect of oversight, which otherwise got more right than wrong, given the selling points of the game.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

All the loot boxes give in OW is glamour, that's it. And just going to point it out, but your anecdote is just further proof that uncapping tomes is the worst thing they can do. You think it was bad then? Imagine how bad it would be and how quickly now if tomes weren't reasonably gated.

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You defeat your own argument, if it was not capped, people could gear up on their own time, and this would prevent the harassment I got in 2.0, (for over 1 month, thanks to rng and time gating, ugh glad they built more barriers to lower mega pull harassment for newer healers) and the headache in 3.0 trying to explain people you do not need 270 gear for lights and I had to mix my blm and whm gear to enter the PF to talk to them.

But this is slightly off the point, main point is we need something different, we need a different system, we need a system that allows a "casual" to "keep up" with the hardcore (assuming this is even an issue, once someone has the in a day who care if it takes someone a month? kinda weird idea esp when people don't care about ilevels outside having access to things in this game) while said hardcore can be gated on job a and freely to gear job B (weather be max already and simply can't anymore) while keeping that max gear relevant for a while and giving people to do. You can't out date gear (Body gear from delta normal) before people have a chance to obtain it. People are tired of the 450 week treadmill, as this thread was made and mine as well.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Because of the game's reliance on currency and gil being fairly easily to come by, running dungeon for the hell of it isn't really something that is common to do. notice how many people had to be coaxed back into playing the adventurer in need bonus? how many various ways get introduced toale players run that overdone content one more time? That is also a product of having people spam content out the gate. There has to be something there for them, or they will not go.

Likewise, I tend not to do dungeons if I am capped on tomes. I don't like being there, I just see it as something they push constantly for tomes.

Then before you know it, you are on your 50th run of ala mihgo, wondering why you are doing this yet again.

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Yeah, I feel the same way. Given how tanks and healers and combat in general is designed in this game, I just don't have that much fun running dungeons. When I did Anima, I just did it for the glam, rather than because I enjoyed them. I think it's the flaws in the design of the combat system, rather than the grind itself, that bothers me about FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

You defeat your own argument, if it was not capped, people could gear up on their own time,

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Some would, most would not. Verity stands proof of that as you'll be hard pressed to find people who didn't have their preferred jobs completely geared within the first few weeks. Furthermore, if Creation tomes were uncapped, PF groups would simply bump up the ilvl requirement. Savage pugs typically set an ilvl restriction between 316-325. You know what that means? You need crafted, Omega normal or Creation to join those parties. Do you honestly believe that ilvl demand wouldn't be scaled upwards if the base level were 330? Therefore, you'd have to gear immediately if you wanted to queue into Savage without a pre-arranged static. What about non-raiding content? Who cares? As has been repeated ad nauseam, everything above 310 is overkill for non-Savage content. Your entire argument hinges on an ilvl nothing requires you to have. Only Savage encourages it due to community preference to kill things fast.

You have also continuously ignored how uncapped Creation tomes renders half the content released devoid of any incentive. People don't run dungeons for the gear drops, they do it for Verity and Creation because it's better. Omega normal, Ivalice and crafted gear would all be worthless since it's weaker than the now uncapped Creation tomes. If the devs ever made such a change, they would have to adjust everything. That a system may look like the following:

- Creation tomestones ilvl reduced to 320; uncapped
- Crafted gear unchanged (superior by virtue of overmelds, albeit expensive)
- Omega normal ilvl increased to 330; RNG dependent, same weekly restrictions and potential increase to tokens required (five stafts for a body piece exchange instead of four, for instance)
- Ivalice unchanged
- Savage unchanged

In lieu of farming tomestones, you now have to run Omega normal for the best gear. Why? As noted above, it needs some incentive or people simply won't queue into it week after week. Remember, this content is intended to last several months. It needs a constant stream of people to maintain adequate queue times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

we need a system that allows a "casual" to "keep up" with the hardcore

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We already have this? Every three and a half months, a 24-man raid releases that allows everyone to acquire the capped tomestone equivalent ilvl gear. Why do you need ilvl 330 gear now? You don't need it unless you're doing Savage. If you want to queue into a dungeon. It can be with a 290 Red Mage and no one's going to bat an eyelash. You just want the best gear immediately. Okay, great. Go do Savage. You don't want to? I guess you'll wait for Ivalice. Capping Creation isn't "hardcore."

Verity proved uncap does not harm the game. People where still running those DFs despite some having a full set for their job early, then I went on to gear 2 more before going back to the 450 thing. I saw no one complaining that someone geared faster then someone else. Also it is still has not been explainedwhy someone having a level 70 before someone else matters. They removed the 1.0 exp caping for the same reason, but the current 450 system is worse system then that ever was and people do not complain about it? confuses me why that is. I guess we need bring back EXP capping per week, because we can't have hardcore leveling faster then causal.

So what if people request 330 (wouldn't it be 329 or something anyway? ring issue) it is better then during HW, or 2.0, harassing/blocking people due to only time gates, not the ability of one's willingness to take part and get gear. Also note I am asking for a complete different system, because clearly saying uncap does not work for you, and you seem to think there is an unnecessary need to time gate so people with less time can keep up per week, and in the end of things, people should have a right to play at their own pace, not feel compelled to do dailies every day because if they miss, they are forever behind.

I am not ignoring anything, you are the only one ignoring me. I said before time and time again current tome gear is always too strong for the current content, since 2.0 this is always a problem, stop assuming my motive, I do not care about overgearing content. I want to be able to gear what is expected, on my own time, like at 50, I needed the time gate removed so I would not be harassed for a month over not being at the standard 120 ilevel, because people will not lisen when you ask for smaller pulls you are not geared for it.

The argument you are throwing at me defeats yours as well, if you only need 310 for content, then it does not matter if 330 is not capped.

For your changes that is fine, because it does not work out dating content 2 weeks old. I lost my incentive to queue for it after week 2 because of crafted gear, now it is just something to do, hit need on everything because it is there to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

We already have this? Every three and a half months, a 24-man raid releases that allows everyone to acquire the capped tomestone equivalent ilvl gear. Why do you need ilvl 330 gear now? You don't need it unless you're doing Savage. If you want to queue into a dungeon. It can be with a 290 Red Mage and no one's going to bat an eyelash. You just want the best gear immediately. Okay, great. Go do Savage. You don't want to? I guess you'll wait for Ivalice. Capping Creation isn't "hardcore."

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You mean the ineffective frustrating treadmill that is copy and pasted over and over, patch after patch for 4 years and wonder why people make threads like this?

We need more/new content/ new system/ people are being burnt out on the same thing over and over again. You just do not want people gear quicker then you. Your personal grievance is making you put words in my mouth, I am not saying that at all, and it is getting old at this point. I told you over and over and over I am not "You just want the best gear immediately."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

I just had this convo with someone:
(shout) To be fair some of the XI stuff would be a nice addition to this game
Me (tell): your suggesting this game needs more content like ffxi offered many things to do yes?
(tell reply)> and a higher challenge rfor endgame serious raids yes

There isn't enough content in this game.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

snip

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You are only looking at the short term. People ran content because everything was new and Verity was only intended to last a month. By the time Savage released, people were already running out of things to spend Verity on hence why the devs made all the current 320 crafted gear require Verity. Creation, on the other hand, is meant to last for several months; until 4.1 where it's then supplemented by Ivalice gear. Furthermore, Verity was the lowest ilvl available whereas Creation is second highest. Why would anyone run Omega after a few weeks when it drops inferior gear? That's why the cap exists. It's to artificially incentivize content people wouldn't continuously do-- a philosophy which has proven effective every single time they've implemented it. When Heavensward released, no one touched Crystal Tower until the Anima sent us back there. No one does synced EX Primals from previous content, thus Wondrous Tales allowed new players to clear it since pony and bird farms typically disagree bonus. Cracked Clusters improved Leveling Roulette queues. Like it or not, people tend to follow the "carrot on a stick" approach.

I did no such thing. You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. I couldn't care less if you gear as quickly as me. I have long argued against the notion raiders should always have better gear because I don't care. I disagree with tomestones being uncapped because content needs the incentive for people to continuously spam it. You can tell me all you fancy, but that doesn't make it an accurate assessment. As noted above, content lacking an incentive gets ignored. Alexander and Coil are dead. Void Ark is more or less dead. Why? No reason for anyone to do them. How many people will queue into Omega normal two months from now with uncapped tomestones being superior in every facet, be it ilvl or grind efficiency or cost? That doesn't inherently mean FFXIV couldn't improve its content, but there will always be a limit. The devs simply cannot develop enough content to accommodate how fast we consume it. Either way, Yoshida has already mentioned adding new things in the coming patches. So we shall have to wait and see how that unfolds.

All this being said, I find it rather ironic you whine in what is now two threads about people "putting words in your mouth" only to presume my only reason for disagreeing with you is because I care if you catch up to my gear progression when I made no such insinuations. Alas, I have said all that needs be said and arguing further gets either of us nowhere. So I'll let this be now.

I am bored also...its not that the game is bad or anything, its just this long of the same formula..although it feels a bit better,I think its finally reached its peak for me. I'm not bitter or gonna rage or anything...I am just losing interest in the game. Been playing other games, working on my career and going out..its a lot more enjoyable. Don't think I will ever return to this game "full time" again. No dancer in the expansion either..I was hoping they'd release it before I got bored of the game entirely..oh well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You are only looking at the short term. People ran content because everything was new and Verity was only intended to last a month. By the time Savage released, people were already running out of things to spend Verity on hence why the devs made all the current 320 crafted gear require Verity. Creation, on the other hand, is meant to last for several months; until 4.1 where it's then supplemented by Ivalice gear. Furthermore, Verity was the lowest ilvl available whereas Creation is second highest. Whywould anyone run Omega after a few weeks when it drops inferior gear? That's why the cap exists. It's to artificially incentivize content people wouldn't continuously do-- a philosophy which has proven effective every single time they've implemented it. When Heavensward released, no one touched Crystal Tower until the Anima sent us back there. No one does synced EX Primals from previous content, thus Wondrous Tales allowed new players to clear it since pony and bird farms typically disagree bonus. Cracked Clusters improved Leveling Roulette queues. Like it or not, people tend to follow the "carrot on a stick" approach.

I did no such thing. You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. I couldn't care less if you gear as quickly as me. I have long argued against the notion raiders should always have better gear because I don't care. I disagree with tomestones being uncapped because content needs the incentive for people to continuously spam it. You can tell me all you fancy, but that doesn't make it an accurate assessment. As noted above, content lacking an incentive gets ignored. Alexander and Coil are dead. Void Ark is more or less dead. Why? No reason for anyone to do them. How many people will queue into Omega normal two months from now with uncapped tomestones being superior in every facet, be it ilvl or grind efficiency or cost? That doesn't inherently mean FFXIV couldn't improve its content, but there will always be a limit. The devs simply cannot develop enough content to accommodate how fast we consume it. Either way, Yoshida has already mentioned adding new things in the coming patches. So we shall have to wait and see how that unfolds.

All this being said, I find it rather ironic you whine in what is now two threads about people "putting words in your mouth" only to presume my only reason for disagreeing with you is because I care if you catch up to my gear progression when I made no such insinuations. Alas, I have said all that needs be said and arguing further gets either of us nowhere. So I'll let this be now.

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They did not do it for the reasons you said, they did it because it is the same formula used for 4 years.

"I find it ironic" when you say " You simply cannot grasp the concept not everyone agrees with you. " when that very thing applies to you. You can't see people get tired of doing the same thing over and over again for 4 years? You can't honestly sit there and say "we need keep doing the same thing because it works"???????????? It only appears to "work" because it is a short term system. It will tire people out and will collapse, hard, sometime in the future. This thread is evidence of the first dominoes falling.

For the last bit, I did that on purpose so you know how it feels, I am sick of it. please do not do it to me anymore. It is not the first time you did that to me. So no, it does not fit what ironic means.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iromi

I am bored also...its not that the game is bad or anything, its just this long of the same formula..although it feels a bit better,I think its finally reached its peak for me. I'm not bitter or gonna rage or anything...I am just losing interest in the game. Been playing other games, working on my career and going out..its a lot more enjoyable. Don't think I will ever return to this game "full time" again. No dancer in the expansion either..I was hoping they'd release it before I got bored of the game entirely..oh well.

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Again, deny all you want, (sorry Tilla Eversong/ iromi none of this is directed to you, just using your quoted to Cassandra Solidor/Bourne_Endeavor) but a lot of people feel this, that is why things need changing, the only one looking at short term is you when you say "it works" it works because it is a short term system. You cannot keep copy and paste the same thing and expect people to stay. Is your real biases for "disagreeing" is because you simply dislike change? It needs changing, we can't be doing the same thing over and over again that we have been for the last 4 years.

Yoshi is playing it safe at the moment, and as long as people keep paying there is no cause to put the chips on anything but the "sure bet". There have been a good bit of quality of life improvements to this expansion where they blundered in 2.5+ and 3.X updates.
The first that is extremely noticeable is that the crafting has come down substantially in terms of skill level and time investment. I capped all crafts pre-2.5 , but quickly gave up on the insane amout of gear required to take them all to master level. No harm done there as I refocused on my favorite and got there, however upon entering Heavensward I found that crafting was made to take extensive stores of gil and time to become competitive at. The rotations were foreign to me and unwelcome. In my aggravation with the perceived entry gate introduction ,so I promptly dropped it at 56. My tank in contrast felt overpowered once I hit 60 , as if there was nothing beyond my reach. Initially I was upset with the decrease to my tanks various skills ,and how it shifted my play style into desperation at times. I do however understand this is a change that was needed to more evenly divide the work load thus cultivating more members and not stifling the entire group if the main component was the weakest link. In terms of story an epic betrayal banishment into joining a 1,000 year war with dragons is far more epic than a revolution. If they had left the Shinryu v.s. Omega fight under hat until the expansion opener and used it in the trailer I think they may have garnered more of a sensational reaction. Here's hoping future content is better even if it won't be varied that much.

Even with uncapped tones, it would take quite a while to level all classes and purchase the gear. No-one is logging in on Tuesday and doing that and never returning. After a reasonable timeframe of people levelling how many they like, then they can use something like omega to get some upgrade items, etc. On my server the numbers in the queue isn't the problem - I don't think there are enough instances to cater to the 50+ people in every queue I enter. I have no idea why I'll be #49 in a DF queue with a 30+ min wait unless it was the lack of instances.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kallera

My name is IHaveAGoodPoint aka Kallera and I say: "I have a good point there!" *Nailed*

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And believe me or not, you DO have a point.


OK! Aventurers... Now,
Now, let's talk this true... or whatever?

The gear hunters (Hi! TheRealMadruck : trolling a bit, don't mind me, we are alike TRM, I'm MAD too, caps inclued),
want to have gear and makes them more "powerful"...
That said gear is to allow you to be able to make more mistakes during duties, and still win the Duty, right?
Me gear hunters aka lolHitMeMoreIWontDieEasy(FirstName) ImmaOneShotYou(Lastname), yeah!

Where the glory on that? I'm casual... What do I do I know? Really... (READ: You can start B-word me.)

The fun in the game is to achieve something HARD to accomplish. (READ: I'm CasualTryingToGetRelic KeepTryingUF)
Well, I say, **** the gear!!! What you, gear hunters, are after is challenge. Right?