SB is great, but are there any plans to shake up the endgame formula?

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Originally Posted by kite384

As far i know they are interested in doing harder 4 player content

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where did you hear that ?

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Originally Posted by Gleipni

where did you hear that ?

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Yoshi-P mentioned it when he was visiting some of the JP servers, during new years eve.

could be a great news,but it gonna take years to see any of these ....

I think FFXIV is the best Final fantasy that I have played since XII.
People seem to forget that , in theory, you are playing a 4 year old game but with a large amount of "DLCs" periodically , a bit like what's happening with FFXV right now. FFXV is the same game that came out a year ago but still adding story lines new bosses new missions etc but KEEP the same formula. Eventually people will get bored of it.

If people want FFXIV to improve or change , the DEV team will have to RE CREATE from scratch a totally new FF"XIV" to make it feel it fresh and That could take years.

But remember you ARE playing an old game but with lots and lots of download stuff like patches and expansions etc.

I am up for a full system overhaul to bring FFXIV to what could be a FFXIV-2 with new system. I cannot ask for new bosses cause in every FF you follow certain formula that replicates in all of them.

I love this game to bits but I'm up for whatever. So I don't disagree with the op

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Originally Posted by Vanfrano

FFXI did it, without a 300 people dev team, a lot of other games do it. Why is everything here on FFXIV impossible to do for the devs? And why is everyone making excuses for their lazy work?

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Think your heavily overstating what XI did frankly, I enjoyed XI back in the day just like most that played it. But to say it was some kind of great example of game development is pretty sketchy. The release schedule was long, heavily drawn out, and slow. The game systems were rewarding mostly in regards to manipulative game elements, extremely low drop rates, and endless horizontal progress which kept events relevant for way longer then they probably should have been to compensate for the fact that they could not release content at a pace that would have been unsustainable for them back then without the manipulative game elements.

Am I trying to suggest that XIV is a perfect example either? No, it has it's own problems but too many people make XI content to sound grander then it was in reality

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

Think your heavily overstating what XI did frankly, I enjoyed XI back in the day just like most that played it. But to say it was some kind of great example of game development is pretty sketchy. The release schedule was long, heavily drawn out, and slow. The game systems were rewarding mostly in regards to manipulative game elements, extremely low drop rates, and endless horizontal progress which kept events relevant for way longer then they probably should have been to compensate for the fact that they could not release content at a pace that would have been unsustainable for them back then without the manipulative game elements.

Am I trying to suggest that XIV is a perfect example either? No, it has it's own problems but too many people make XI content to sound grander then it was in reality

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You see it as keeping events around longer than they should, I see it as horizontal progression that keeps it relevant throughout the years. I'm not expecting XIV to completely toss out the tiered endgame and treat it how XI did but the way XIV is handling new content is why this topic exists.

I've played XI for years (and still occasionally hop back in for a month) and I've played XIV since 1.0 launch. I prefer the way XI handled endgame by far.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

Think your heavily overstating what XI did frankly, I enjoyed XI back in the day just like most that played it. But to say it was some kind of great example of game development is pretty sketchy.

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Another thing people don't say about XI is how little people actually got to play the content. During the entire span of Zilart and Promathia my LS had 2 King Behemoth kills vs dozens of Nidhogg kills. And even that was a minuscule amount, if we did Fafnir/Nidhogg in XI the same way we can do Nidhogg EX in XIV, everyone that wanted a Ridill would've gotten it even with that drop rate. If Dynamis entry cost and lockout was more like Diadem and we didn't lose XP/levels for wiping, we would've burned through that much faster too.

Besides the horizontal progression, part of what made XI content last was how much people couldn't play it.

that's not to say XIV can't use some Limbus, Assault, Salvage types of content with relevant rewards.

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Originally Posted by Gleipni

could be a great news,but it gonna take years to see any of these ....

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I can see it taking that type of time for older content, but with newer stuff still to come I think it wouldn't be as hard to do the harder versions of 4-man content. Similar to how they do EX trials, the majority of the time they come out at the same time as the Hard Mode. So, they will likely be adding mechanics, removing telegraphs, increasing damage/hp/defence, and whatever else they need to do to make it harder content.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Another thing people don't say about XI is how little people actually got to play the content. During the entire span of Zilart and Promathia my LS had 2 King Behemoth kills vs dozens of Nidhogg kills. And even that was a minuscule amount, if we did Fafnir/Nidhogg in XI the same way we can do Nidhogg EX in XIV, everyone that wanted a Ridill would've gotten it even with that drop rate. If Dynamis entry cost and lockout was more like Diadem and we didn't lose XP/levels for wiping, we would've burned through that much faster too.

Besides the horizontal progression, part of what made XI content last was how much people couldn't play it.

that's not to say XIV can't use some Limbus, Assault, Salvage types of content with relevant rewards.

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Truth. XI lasted because you were forced to wait in order to get anything done. That X piece of gear was rare because the mob only spawn twice a week and you have 50 other people aiming to get it. Was it an achievement to get it? Or more of a relief that you no longer had to spend 4hrs a day twiddling your thumbs waiting on the spawn?

One thing I would like them to do for the hard mode dungeons, is a moving DPS check(i.e. Wanderer's Palace Tonberry Stalkers). That would definitely add to the difficulty if they increase mob numbers/mechanics/etc.

I swear, sometimes I read what you all say about XI and I just can't imagine how you could stand it.

Yes, FFXIV content becomes -generally-
irrelevant in a few months, but expecting players to spend literal months grinding for a pair of boots is so far on the other end of the "relevancy" spectrum it simply wouldn't be feasible to the general (keyword here) FFXIV audience. Most of the player base would never bother to try.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

I swear, sometimes I read what you all say about XI and I just can't imagine how you could stand it.

Yes, FFXIV content becomes -generally-
irrelevant in a few months, but expecting players to spend literal months grinding for a pair of boots is so far on the other end of the "relevancy" spectrum it simply wouldn't be feasible to the general (keyword here) FFXIV audience. Most of the player base would never bother to try.

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gear wasn't made obsolete every 3-6 months like in XIV, which made it worth it. You also could swap gear while in combat which made pieces useful later. There was a variety activities to do in XI which kept it from getting stale. XIV you have raids or tome grind.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

XIV you have raids or tome grind.

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With "Tome grind" encompassing a multitude of content from dungeons over raids, hunts and PvP to minor amounts in treasure maps and beast tribe quests. PotD used to be an additional option as well.

Tome grinding is one of the most diverse activities in this game. Some options just lack in efficiency compared to others.

Well if the issue is the formula I suppose they could change it up.
Maybe next time instead of getting the same token over and over, you have to farm 4 tokens and you use different combinations to turn it into something else.
Maybe next time they put all the tokens into achievements tied to the patch content :D.
Maybe next time they still give boring content, but instead of redeeming it for gear, you redeem it for entry to a solo dungeon where you can win said gear (like a solo Aquapolis?)

Wouldn't amount to much of a difference as far as getting you to do the instances over and over again, you'd still be grinding, but the reward mechanism would be slightly different.

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Originally Posted by Khel

They tried a new solo trial of high difficulty during early access, people were not pleased.

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I still remember the closed beta solo trial against the Ascian and his pet. That poison was no joke ._.

Wish they would do something unique to this game...
You know...like...

JOB CHANGE IN DUNGEONS!

Oh the horror, the terror of needing to level up multiple jobs. :confused:

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Originally Posted by tymora

snip

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Here's an example of what can happen:

Person 1 uses Healer's fast queue time to quickly enter a leveling dungeon. Let's say Doma Castle or Castrum Abania.
Person 1 now switches to the DPS they want to level up.
The Group now has no Healer, and the other 3 party members do not have a healer with the minimum level required for the dungeon.
Since Person 1 doesn't want to switch back to their Healer, the party cannot complete the dungeon.

What do you propose to prevent this example from happening?

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Originally Posted by Brill_

gear wasn't made obsolete every 3-6 months like in XIV, which made it worth it. You also could swap gear while in combat which made pieces useful later. There was a variety activities to do in XI which kept it from getting stale. XIV you have raids or tome grind.

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Swaping Gear in Combat sound both kind of dumb and also a inventory nightmare.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

gear wasn't made obsolete every 3-6 months like in XIV, which made it worth it. You also could swap gear while in combat which made pieces useful later. There was a variety activities to do in XI which kept it from getting stale. XIV you have raids or tome grind.

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Well, if I remember correctly, come 4.2(or 4.25, can't remember which it was said to be), Eureka will be released, and we will have Relic Gear in addition to Relic Weapons. So...don't think they gears will be obsolete quite as quickly. Will likely require a fair bit more work to keep them current, but I doubt they will be useless as quickly as most other gears we have.

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Originally Posted by tymora

JOB CHANGE IN DUNGEONS!

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1.0 had something like this and people hated it.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

What do you propose to prevent this example from happening?

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make every dungeon so easy all trash mobs die to Triple Cast Flares so you don't need to heal and every player that doesn't have BLM level gets vote kicked instantly. it would be the best game (NOT).

it is a ridiculously terrible idea and i have every single job leveled.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Well, if I remember correctly, come 4.2(or 4.25, can't remember which it was said to be), Eureka will be released, and we will have Relic Gear in addition to Relic Weapons. So...don't think they gears will be obsolete quite as quickly. Will likely require a fair bit more work to keep them current, but I doubt they will be useless as quickly as most other gears we have.

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In 4.4, the gear range will raise to i380-i400. Our relic gear would be max i370. It’s obsoleted the moment the patch is released until whatever time it catches up.