Please Please Please Remove Esuna From CrossRole

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Originally Posted by technole

Some may think some skills don't have value, but they also haven't done every content available in the game (O4S Surecast), or know that there was old content that actually had use for some of the skills when they were relevant (Heavy in A3S/Turn 5. Now that healers lost DPS skills that had the heavy trait).

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Yes, but that's raid specific. Keep in mind this brings newer players in the game, and they may hit an old encounter that requires Esuna but they wouldn't know to bring it in their skillset till it's too late. That's problematic.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

While Esuna is rather situational, I do feel like Protect should have been an auto party buff if a healer is in light/full party. That way they could have kept stoneskin which is great for mitigation. I feel like what was intended to simplify roles has complicated things in other ways. Also I find it slightly annoying that we're still only offered 5 cross roles and felt like we should have been awarded a 6th one.

It's kind of annoying after the fact you find out you need something for encounters, specially if you go into roulette forgetting you need to add in Esuna due to things like Doom. (this is something to mention due to 24 man roulette going to be a thing) or that annoying Sludge mechanic in Sastasha HM.

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I feel like Protect should be a trait shared between healers that grant 5% damage reduction as long as the healer is in range and in at least a light party (fairy and chocobo notwithstanding). This way, with two healers you get the current protect of 10% (or whatever the current Protect is since it says it's a Physical/Magical Defense booster, so these numbers aren't probably right). It might also force healers to heal more in regular dungeons since there's less flat-line damage mitigation.

Hear hear. I miss good old leaches! that and it would free up some cross role space if we got our native 'ensua' skills back

Much as I agree with Esuna being a really weird choice for a cross role skill, I'd only slightly disagree that it's the most mandatory on the list. The real culprit there is Lucid Dreaming. All three healer kits have mana costs that are obviously tuned around having Lucid. It's not "nice to have in some encounters"; you're going to run out of mana without it.

I think its the other way, instead of Esuna, Protect should be the skill that every healer has by default.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I think its the other way, instead of Esuna, Protect should be the skill that every healer has by default.

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All of them. Basically all of them are skills that all healers should have by default, and prior to SB, 4/10 of them were, and of the other 6, 2 were already in cross-class from THM, and 3 were stolen from either SCH or WHM to make them available (and were already available via cross-class to the others anyway). The only actual healer role ability that we didn't all already have access to in some form before is Rescue.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The problem with this is most of the other abilities are utter shyte. Cleric stance at a whopping 5%? Break (LOL)? Maybe surecast, situational as well.

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That's the point, though.

All of the role actions are situational. You don't need Largesse on every encounter, and there are lots of older fights where break is good. I even use Cleric stance and Surecast on O4S for extra DPS.

The only role action I'd say isn't situational and should always be equipped is Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

The only role action I'd say isn't situational and should always be equipped is Swiftcast.

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Lucid is also not optional.

I, too, hate it when I die to an unavoidable Doom because neither healer has Esuna spec'd. +1 for Esuna back to baseline.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Lucid is also not optional.

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I don't use Lucid at all in O1S or O3S. It may be more required for white mage or astro though, but most fights have enough time in between required healing to let you energy drain on scholar.

Of course since it's hard to not have room for lucid dreaming, it may as well be required just for that fact so yeah.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I don't use Lucid at all in O1S or O3S. It may be more required for white mage or astro though, but most fights have enough time in between required healing to let you energy drain on scholar.

Of course since it's hard to not have room for lucid dreaming, it may as well be required just for that fact so yeah.

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You aren't using miasma II though. Thats why your dps suffers but your mp doesn't.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/gr6Tn...-done&source=3

Isn't Miasma 2 weaker than Broil 2 on a single target?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Isn't Miasma 2 weaker than Broil 2 on a single target?

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Its 200 weavable potency. So if you use any ogcd ability [energy drain, lustrate, excog, ect] during the weave time from instacast miasma II, you gain damage over broil II, since those abilities would clip the gcd, stalling your next broil II, losing you a minimum of 80 potency. Weaving two ogcds under miasma II, increases its gap.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Yes, but that's raid specific. Keep in mind this brings newer players in the game, and they may hit an old encounter that requires Esuna but they wouldn't know to bring it in their skillset till it's too late. That's problematic.

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Big deal, wipe and learn. Even raiders do the same thing. Every role has something that is encounter specific.

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Originally Posted by technole

Big deal, wipe and learn. Even raiders do the same thing. Every role has something that is encounter specific.

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Right? Surecast becomes godly in V4s, pointless everywhere else.

Unless you're a healer... in Sophia EX... popping surecast and pulling DPS beside you... in the middle...just before tilt... thatll teach you to stack for heals.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

That way they could have kept stoneskin which is great for mitigation.

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They took your stoneskin and then gave it right back to you in the form of Divine Benison. That way it was WHM specific. Just like DRK lost Delirium and then got it right back later. Lots of jobs "Lost" abilities during the streamline but magically got them back post 60 in the form of a "new" ability.

Terrible design IMO.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

They took your stoneskin and then gave it right back to you in the form of Divine Benison. That way it was WHM specific. Just like DRK lost Delirium and then got it right back later. Lots of jobs "Lost" abilities during the streamline but magically got them back post 60 in the form of a "new" ability.

Terrible design IMO.

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DB is ogcd and grants 5% more mitigation than HW stoneskin. Its only real drawback is that its Lily locked. DB does HW ss' job, but better. It also takes away a healer applying stoneskin every gcd as useless busywork.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

DB is ogcd and grants 5% more mitigation than HW stoneskin. Its only real drawback is that its Lily locked. DB does HW ss' job, but better. It also takes away a healer applying stoneskin every gcd as useless busywork.

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I miss ARR Stoneskin though. 18% was basically a Cure2, same cost, and you could apply it instead of Cure2 for minimal threat, to buffer against mob packs or tank busters...

DB just doesn't feel as good in that regard, mostly because as an OGCD its weight isn't as noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I miss ARR Stoneskin though. 18% was basically a Cure2, same cost, and you could apply it instead of Cure2 for minimal threat, to buffer against mob packs or tank busters...

DB just doesn't feel as good in that regard, mostly because as an OGCD its weight isn't as noticeable.

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HW stoneskin killed ARR's stoneskin. ARR's has already had an expac to grieve over. If anything, DB is the good guy. He killed the murderer!

Lulz

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

HW stoneskin killed ARR's stoneskin. ARR's has already had an expac to grieve over. If anything, DB is the good guy. He killed the murderer!

Lulz

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Divine Benison would be better if it was called Stoneskin and had its animation. But that's just my nitpick.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Divine Benison would be better if it was called Stoneskin and had its animation. But that's just my nitpick.

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I think they needed something to represent the water aspect of conjuring, cause lol Fluid Aura. It looks cooler than your basic StoneSkin cast imo.

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Originally Posted by technole

Big deal, wipe and learn. Even raiders do the same thing. Every role has something that is encounter specific.

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Yes, but a lot of old dungeons were designed for healers to use Esuna. This "swapping" every time you go to a different encounter between regular and savage content gets to be a bit cumbersome if you now have to swap for each dungeon as well. The whole point of cross roles was to downsize button bloat, but they now cause the juggling problem.

The problem with the juggling isn't so much juggling one skill for specific encounters, but staple mitigation skills that EVERY HEALER HAD was put into the pool.

What would have been a better idea was something like Fluid Aura being a cross role. As much as I liked Fluid Aura, it was still situational and not a "must have" in button bloat. Repose is another one that could have gone in the cross roles.

The role skills has a whole need some reworking. Yes the original idea behind it was good, but for most players they'll pretty much have a fixed 5 or 6 that they'll always choose from for their required job. Some skills are a must while others rarely ever see the light of day, making the list lacking any real choice in a sense.

Allow the number of equipable skills to be increased to 6 instead of 5 perhaps might be a temporary solution? The base jobs e.g. Conjurer can equip all 10 of them, I know it lacks the WHM benefits but still.

I like how role actions consolidated some stuff that was basically identical. The problem is that they kept the 5 actions limit from the old cross class system. With the cap increased or removed, they could merge even more stuff and put it there, so instead of 3 different resurrection spells there's just one called Life (can keep unique animations for each job that uses it or just give them all the cute AST animation with wings).

OR keep the current system but allow you to save different setups so you can quickly jump from one preset to another, so you don't have to manually reassign each spell selection when switching between raids and dungeons for example. 3.x pvp had this, allowing you to assign points to skills and then save it as a preset.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

OR keep the current system but allow you to save different setups so you can quickly jump from one preset to another, so you don't have to manually reassign each spell selection when switching between raids and dungeons for example. 3.x pvp had this, allowing you to assign points to skills and then save it as a preset.

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you can do this with an macro.

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/micon "Maker's Mark"
/aaction clear
/aaction "Maker's Mark" on
/aaction "Flawless Synthesis" on
/aaction "Steady Hand II" on

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/aaction clear - Clears all x-Actions.
/aaction "skillname" on sets the Action.

Now you can have different role action sets.

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Originally Posted by Tubben

you can do this with an macro.



/aaction clear - Clears all x-Actions.
/aaction "skillname" on sets the Action.

Now you can have different role action sets.

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Is there a version that sets a specific skill to a specific bar slot?

This is more or less the one I use when I run SMN and SCH. Not exactly, but can't log on to get the precise wording, unfortunately:

/macroicon "Summon" (II, III, as necessary)
/macroerror off
/ac Swiftcast
/ac "Summon" (II, III, as necessary)
/wait
/ac "Summon" (II, III, as necessary)
/hotbar Pet "Skill 1" HotBarNumber LocationNumber
/hotbar Pet "Skill 2" HotBarNumber LocationNumber
/hotbar Pet "Skill 3" HotBarNumber LocationNumber

It swaps all of Eos' skills to Selene's skills so they all still fit on my bar the way I want.

I'm sure you can extend it to the whole thing.

Thank you. That helps a great amount.

I only pull esuna out for doom (or those odd raids that will have healing simplified by removing poison). The rest of the time I just hot and let people deal with their own failures at handling mechanics.
As mentioned before, the mechanic brought up by the OP can and should be avoided entirely by the tank. The dps and healer can also pitch in if anything goes wrong. It's usually only a hard fight if people don't know the tether mechanic.