MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

Thanks for the feed back as to why you dont like it,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

I promise you, you are not in the minority. Which irks me alot more than it should.

Riddle of Fire wouldn't prevent TP loss but TP loss is far less of a concern now that ToD and Frac are gone anyway. Even with the ~800 Sks Monk sets, you gain a large increase of TP with missing those abilities. There's alot less TP drain in general on Monk and Riddle of Fire doesn't do anything to make that better or worse. All it does is slow the class for no reason especially when all these chakra building mechs are RNG focused so Meditation is still going to be used. And it is a 30% increased dps loss to have to use it in RoF if one was bad enough to think that a good idea.

Also, this has been told to me so many times and I'm at a loss how it makes any sense whatsoever. No matter how the new stat, direct hit, applies to us, the only class that it affects differently is the SMN at best. Unless GL is changed to add fundamentally more of that stat along with what it already does, there's no legitimate way to make Monk more overpowered than any other class from one stat. Either the stat is unbalanced towards monk, which would be stupid, or monk is taking dps losses while other classes are getting buffed, what is happening. There's no way direct hit would affect said base potencies any less on a SAM, DRG, or NIN.

---

All this TP business means that SS builds will be viable giving you more options to customize your monk (Crit/SS or Crit/Direct Hit). Which one it will be best remains to be seen.

Regarding Direct hit, I disagree with you. Monk is the only class with Internal Release 30% crit buff at the moment on a 60 sec cooldown. It also autoattacks and does skills faster than any other class besides Ninja. If what I understand is correct and direct hit only procs upon Critical hit, that means that it's going to be activated on Monk way more often than the rest of the Jobs, thus the potency decrease to compensate for this stat. Also, if what I'm saying is correct (just a theory) and direct hit works like Critical hit with Quadric Growth, if you achieve 1300+ DH you'll be seeing a huge increase in DPS.

Again, Monk and Bard are still the classes with the highest natural crit and we may even be able to push crit further than 1300. I saw in one video where a guy shows all classes the Bard with 1600, so it may be possible to reach that as a monk.

Also, this is looking at Monk solely on a Solo perspective. Add Battle voice from bard +15% on Direct hit and this stat could be a huge game changer as it may proc on Monk due to high crit much more often than any other class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinewindx

Another fellow monk that is unhapy about the changes

---

you can make 1 post then eddit it to extend the 1k character limit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Im pretty sure the current consensus of the monk community from watching multiple videos is that only the damage reduction requires you to get hit to proc. The extension of GL duration happens upon using the ability and does not require taking damage.

---

ACtully in the live letter when Y-P was playing monk he used riddle of earth at the very end and it did NOT refresh his stacks cause the mob died and it didnt hit him sooo you DO need to be hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haaki

Direct Hit.

---

We've yet to see how Direct Hit works, but to my understanding it is a proc independent from Crit, that can ALSO happen when Crit happens and has a higher chance to happen than Crit.
So in a sense, Direct Hit is a mini-crit, but it is uncertain whether or not Crit related procs can also happen with Direct Hit (altho most likely will not).

From the lack of footage it's hard to analyze. All the Direct hits we've seen were on top of crits so far. If it is indeed only on top of a crit, my theory that it scales the best with monk due to 30% internal release will still stand

Direct hits are kinda of reduced criticals with more chance to happen than normal crit and also they can proc on a critical hit as well. It can happen both alone and alongside a critical hit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haaki

All this TP business means that SS builds will be viable giving you more options to customize your monk (Crit/SS or Crit/Direct Hit). Which one it will be best remains to be seen.

Regarding Direct hit, I disagree with you. Monk is the only class with Internal Release 30% crit buff at the moment on a 60 sec cooldown. It also autoattacks and does skills faster than any other class besides Ninja. If what I understand is correct and direct hit only procs upon Critical hit, that means that it's going to be activated on Monk way more often than the rest of the Jobs, thus the potency decrease to compensate for this stat. Also, if what I'm saying is correct (just a theory) and direct hit works like Critical hit with Quadric Growth, if you achieve 1300+ DH you'll be seeing a huge increase in DPS.

Again, Monk and Bard are still the classes with the highest natural crit and we may even be able to push crit further than 1300. I saw in one video where a guy shows all classes the Bard with 1600, so it may be possible to reach that as a monk.

Also, this is looking at Monk solely on a Solo perspective. Add Battle voice from bard +15% on Direct hit and this stat could be a huge game changer as it may proc on Monk due to high crit much more often than any other class.

---

The stat gear allocation between whichever option one picks is irrelevant to the argument of TP. But it's another issue altogether. There's isn't a guess, you have to use Crit/SS with background Det & Direct Hit. Monk has to counterbalance the RNG and RoF downside. This isn't an option. If Sks is too low, Rof has a larger downside. Crit has always been king but prior to now Mnk just got more damage from it. NOW, Monk is dependent on it, dependent going into another RNG wall.

Direct Hit and Crit are two different procs that can happen together or not at all, as far as the Tooltip build from the videos were concerned. And again, even counting internal release (a 60sec cooldown not native 30% increase) monk is still forced hard into this hard burst. And again IR is still an increase not guaranteed, it's the lucky vs the unlucky argument that repeats itself with this class. (Before you ask, I have seen an IR window with no crits before. Enough times for me to point it out.) A burst that is no different than DRG. B4B/IR for Monk wasn't that big of a burst nor did it take a large amount of time to execute. Which is why DRG was a burst dps and MNK not so much. Now DRG and MNK has switched. DRG's overall damage isn't a large increase and MNK is now a hard slow hit for a long burst for 15s every 90s.

Monk as a solo dps, this isn't a discussion. It's the weakest of all 4 melee dps without a question. It takes the longest windup unless you use PB and has too many tradeoffs and conditions to damage least of all Monk is still the only dps of the 4 fully governed by positionals and True North isn't going to stop that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haaki

All this TP business means that SS builds will be viable giving you more options to customize your monk (Crit/SS or Crit/Direct Hit).

---

You'd still need to feed the high-SS Monk multiple Goads atop carrying the Role TP-refresh skill on your Ranged for SS to become viable now that your only alternative rotational plateau is at 1.88, given Demolish's duration reduction and the loss of stanceless forms.

Have DRGs even had their TP costs reduced yet to compensate for the 20% loss to Invigorate TP replenishment?

Seriously, I do not understand why they haven't simply changed base TP replenishment to 50 per GCD instead. Poof. Skill Speed TP drain balanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haaki

From the lack of footage it's hard to analyze. All the Direct hits we've seen were on top of crits so far. If it is indeed only on top of a crit, my theory that it scales the best with monk due to 30% internal release will still stand

---

In the little you can see of NIN on the twitch video of the Live Letter XXXVI you can see Duality Armor Crush throwing a 5k strike with an ! at its side. Implying it was a boosted strike.
Problem is that Duality completely nulls the chances of Critical Hit, so that was a Direct Hit.

When both happen at the same time you get a "!!!" like you can see Bhavacakra does in the Mr. Happy video.

At least thats what I know so far of the topic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

The stat gear allocation between whichever option one picks is irrelevant to the argument of TP. But it's another issue altogether. There's isn't a guess, you have to use Crit/SS with background Det & Direct Hit. Monk has to counterbalance the RNG and RoF downside. This isn't an option. If Sks is too low, Rof has a larger downside. Crit has always been king but prior to now Mnk just got more damage from it. NOW, Monk is dependent on it, dependent going into another RNG wall.
Direct Hit and Crit are two different procs that can happen together or not at all, as far as the Tooltip build from the videos were concerned. And again, even counting internal release (a 60sec cooldown not native 30% increase) monk is still forced hard into this hard burst. And again IR is still an increase not guaranteed, it's the lucky vs the unlucky argument that repeats itself with this class. (Before you ask, I have seen an IR window with no crits before. Enough times for me to point it out.) A burst that is no different than DRG. B4B/IR for Monk wasn't that big of a burst nor did it take a large amount of time to execute. Which is why DRG was a burst dps and MNK not so much. Now DRG and MNK has switched. DRG's overall damage isn't a large increase and MNK is now a hard slow hit for a long burst for 15s every 90s.

Monk as a solo dps, this isn't a discussion. It's the weakest of all 4 melee dps without a question. It takes the longest windup unless you use PB and has too many tradeoffs and conditions to damage least of all Monk is still the only dps of the 4 fully governed by positionals and True North isn't going to stop that.

---

Hmm I don't think it's that black and white that you'll need to stack SS to counterbalance RoF solely. Sure you'll be slower attacking but its really just putting you as slow as a Dragoon, and you dont stack SS on that either. I like the fact that you can stack SS however due to RoF being able to make it less stressfull on TP. It's still not clear that pure raw damage from crit + direct hit will surpass it. Honestly, my monk at +1300 Crit on a dummy has roughly 35%+ crit. Add Battle Litany, Chain Stratagem, higher numbers of crit from Gear and you'll be critting over 70% of the time on the opener alone. So its "RNG" DPS but its a pretty damn favorable RNG.

So in the end, just need to remain skeptical and try it upon release. As with every single other class in the game. I mean I sympathize that some people aren't too happy we didn't get any new attacks or anything like that but as far as numbers go, I think we'll have it covered.

Do you really think the crit rate will jump that high. They will change the change the formula. I don't see it going that much past 50% with buffs. Gear alone will keep us around 35 to 40% at best.

Everyone has already talked about how they're upset with potency changes, uncertainty about if the rate at which we get Forbidden Chakra will outweigh the potency changes, and how things like Riddle of Fire, Riddle of Earth, and the new Shoulder Tackles are counter intuitive to the Monk playstyle or useless in general. I pretty much agree across the board.

The thing that I'm upset about the most isn't the potencies, or the duration of buffs, or how much Skill Speed Riddle of Fire does or doesn't reduce. Those can all be changed and modified with future patches. It's how the skills functionally interact to affect the gameplay of Monk that I'm upset about. Or rather how they don't affect the gameplay at all.

I have been playing since the Shiva patch in ARR and have been a Monk main since the start. I feel like I put in a lot of work to become good at the class as well (currently 91st percentile overall on Creator savage). Between ARR and SB, every single class has gotten something that changes how you engage with the class during battle in some way. Some classes got more steps to their combos, others got various buffs they have to maintain and maximize such as BotD and Enochian. Even the lily mechanic on White Mage will become an engaging and fun mechanic for the class once it is properly balanced (and based on some reports made by Yoshi-P earlier it seems they may have already taken steps towards fixing it). Every class has gotten something, except Monk.

In Heavensward, the only skill that we got that we actively use in combat is Elixir Field. Everything else is used pre-pull, the moment just before the boss transitions, or as the boss is transitioning. Nothing actually affected our gameplay or how we interact with the class. Stormblood seems to be more of the same. In their current state, the new skills we get will do nothing to change Monk gameplay. A buff that we use, then wait for everyone else to get chakra stacks for us. A buff that is a simple damage increase. Three modifiers for a rather inconsequential oGCD, a majority of which are extremely niche if not completely useless. Even if they do things like completely remove the Skill Speed reduction on Riddle of Fire, or make the GL refresh on Riddle of Earth not based on a damage proc, they will still functionally be the same, and not add anything mechanically to the class.

Seeing all of my friends have fun theorycrafting and figuring out how the new skills fit in, or coming up with entire new rotations based on their new mechanics, then looking at the empty toolbox that I'm getting for Stormblood...it makes me jealous. Whenever we went into ARR content and my FC mates would complain about having forgotten their level 50 rotation, I would jokingly say that Monk is exactly the same, lucky me! Coming to terms with the idea that I'll have to make the same joke and go through the exact same rotation (which what little spice we did have via ToD and Fracture are now gone), makes me have a lot of empty stares and long sighs.

Long story short I think that the new skills on a conceptual basis, are uninspired and lazy. They've done little to nothing in changing how we interact, engage, and play the class since 2.0. And that makes me sad when looking at how much the other classes have evolved through the expansions. I love this class and want to continue playing it, but it seems so dull...

Where to even begin, people have covered the issues with the new monk changes, I am just here to reiterate that disappointment. As someone who has only ever really enjoyed Monk I feel utterly ripped off, to the point I am kinda wishing I didn't pre-order so early.

Other classes get interesting new stuff, potency buffs and things to have fun with that effectively change their rotations. Monks don't... We get the same rotation patch after patch, we get our potency reduced, and the new skills we do get we will barely use.

I feel like the chakra gained through crit is SE patching up the crockery of skills they gave us in heavensward (outside of elixir field). FoW and FoE are still useless, One-Ilm punch is pretty useless. The tackle mastery, although the concept of fists interacting with skills is interesting, the implementation is useless as we will still only use FoF.

All I can say is I hope Samurai or Red Mage are fun...

I agree with what others have said re the new abilities being mostly garbage. It's pretty sad that my friends are all hyped for SB and here I am trying to decide whether I want to switch to sam or unsub after at least 2 years of maining monk. It looks like the flagship class for this expansion will be #deletemonk. Looking forward to seeing more PFs with "no monk" in the comments. It's as if no one on the dev team plays monk, no one solicited advice from someone who plays monk, and no one understands what makes monk fun.

-Why not remove the slowdown from RoF and decrease the dmg buff? Or why not give us a bad ass red or blue aura like in the trailer and speed us up? I was really hoping we would have that kind of effect in-game seeing as it was so prominent in the trailer.
-Remove frames from TFC to reduce clipping.
-Reduce cooldown for PB.
-Do something with steel peak. It's just button bloat without its stun. Why not remove one ilm punch and move the stun to steel peak? Or remove steel peak and undo the GCD nerfs?
-Increase the dmg on TK and give it a mercy stroke hp gain effect.
-Increase the dmg buff for brotherhood and have it apply to you too, include a chance to gain chakra from every GCD, not just weapon skills.
-Each shoulder tackle should be associated with a solid dps gain and/or realistic utility or nobody is going to use it. E.g., add burning dot to fire tackle, sks buff or global cooldown reduction to wind tackle, and backstep + dmg to earth tackle similar to Yaten for sam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

The stat gear allocation between whichever option one picks is irrelevant to the argument of TP. But it's another issue altogether. There's isn't a guess, you have to use Crit/SS with background Det & Direct Hit. Monk has to counterbalance the RNG and RoF downside.

---

The trade off isn't really nearly so analog as that, though. You want a mod3 of 0 on your Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes (15s) and especially your Demolish (18s) to maximize your rotation. At a 2.15 rotation, this gives you 8.37 GCDs per Demolish, or refreshing 1.12s late, meaning that you'll lose one tick's potential every 3 Demolish, or roughly once per 58 seconds. This is already nearly ideal. It's better to be late by less than two ticks than to clip by a tick. To be late by two ticks, however, now outputs exactly equal potency, and any more than 2 ticks, which should be impossible given that each GCD takes less time than a tick, would be worse.

At a 2.00 GCD, one makes 3 cycles every 9 GCDs, exact, still shaving only one Demolish. This is the maximum frequency at which you can use/clip Demolish (without Snap Punch being superior). Should lenieny make the effective frequency actually higher than that, then a higher GCD (e.g. 2.02) should be used as not to risk clipping. Should you aim for 2.0, RoF would bring you to 2.3, where Demolish would be 1.17 GCDs, 2.7 seconds, late. You would lose potential tick damage every other Demolish, or roughly 150 over a minute.

The next modular rotation isn't until 1.5s, at which Demolish would be cast once every 12 GCDs. Should you aim for that, RoF would bring you to 1.725, which leaves you with a 1.56 delay, again costing potential tick damage per every other Demolish.

It's less a balancing act as figuring out what plateau you need, and then figuring out where RoF will least harm your rotation (e.g. from Demo to early Demo).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KrazyBean94

Well, Samurai shares gear with Monk. If their intention was to make Monk mains swap then I'd say that they're doing a great job. The only good addition is Brotherhood, and even then can definitely be better. At least with Heavensward we got some neat stuff, but with Stormblood I'm not excited for any of it. It's...really really bad.

Monk gets fed scraps in their own expansion. How sad. The only saving grace here is that the media tour build was a late April build and Monk went through significant changes before early access. They're doing stuff for White Mage, so hopefully they'll do stuff for Monk, cause I'd say that they're both in the same spot right now.

---

i will be blunt, what the monk need is a rework of all the skill they have announced, when i say rework, is simply scrapping the riddle of earth and tackles mastery. because like said by many riddle of fire will be the only one really used.... we need change, we need more attack we need to have the monk evolve for god sake... i want to have to learn new combo and such.

why dragoon that are a jobs, based on jump can get new combo and even extend them combo to 5 hit, do what the monk that have the free form combo system can't do?
and before people say it's not easy? i gonna give you an idea!

we all know about the greese lightning 3 stack, why not make after we did get the three stack, we unlock another stance we can reach adding a fourth combo. offering new skill to use, more devastating, since it's what we are... devastating machine gun.

an important point, we are still the only job that suffer a downfall violent if we loose our buff... because at best, you will need 21-22 second for be back to full power... none of the other jobs loose soo much from loosing them buff.

we was in right to hope for evolution, for change in our mechanic... and we did get a slap in the face. i'm not fond of this movement of #deletemnk, but in all honesty what they plan to give us... is not saving monk, it's killing it. why? because they think monk is already to hard to play, when the only hard part to play is the greese lightning downside.

Yes, changing some numbers won't be enouth to help monk, the new skills need a rework.
I just hope they won't wait for 5.0 to do it !

I think tackle mastery is useless but the right idea. I think Fire, Wind, Earth should all do the same damage but each one makes skills do different things.

As a main monk since 2.1, I am beyond disapointement with the new skills we're getting in SB.

I won't bring anything new to the topic as everything as been said, but here's my 2 cents :

- The dps nerf is not welcomed at all since the utility we gained is minimal and still far from relevant compared to nin or drg. I plan on spending some time in SSS when SB hits to measure that loss, but I fear 4.0 will be far below 3.0 monk. And none of the new skills cover that loss.

- The new skills are counter intuitive : riddle of fire lowers your GCD which is against monk basic design. Riddle of earth is clunky (getting hit to refresh GL, really ?) and nullyfies the use of Tornado Kick. Also many fights have too long downtimes for it to be actually useful. Riddle of Wind is just useless.

- Removal of Touch of dead : why ? It was a good source of damage and integrated well in the rotation (could be used to delay demo refresh). It's an unjustified loss that dumbs down the job even more.

- We lost many buffs and skills, and gained one small party buff and a replacement for blood for blood. That's it. The rest won't be used as it doesn't bring anything useful to the table.

The job is losing it's identity (fast paced, top solo target dps), it's dps and utility is still outmatched. Even worse, the job is less interesting than ever, 4.0 monk is just a simplified 3.0 monk that does less both in terms of dps and fun.

Something needs to be done, because if it stays like that I don't see any raid group accepting a monk over another melee and more important, I don't see how one could find enjoyable to play a simplified and clunkier version of his job during SB. Nothing feels appealing regarding monk right now.

Edit : typo

Monk looks uninteresting as hell in 4.0. Switching to either DRG or SAM.

Riddle of earth needs to extend GL duration without having requiring to get hit to be useful.
Tornado Kick needs to have higher potency and not lower cooldown.

Even if Riddle of Earth extends GL without requiring to get hit, there is still a problem : Tornado kick becomes useless or loses a lot of interest, usecases.

Riddle of Earth is counter intuitive as it is now.

Random idea but, maybe if it provided a GL stack instead thus refreshing your current GL if you're at max, but also giving you one if you don't have any. That way we could use tonado kick, then riddle of earth : gain one stack, then stance switch to coeurl so you can start the next phase with 2 stacks right away.

the trouble is not to make riddle of earth viable... but the lack of new capacity really involved in our cycle.
no new attack... no new combo possibility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

the trouble is not to make riddle of earth viable... but the lack of new capacity really involved in our cycle.
no new attack... no new combo possibility.

---

I totally agree with your point. It was just a random thought on this specific skill, but it's merely a drop in the ocean of problems monk is facing in SB.

Not mine, but it's a good representation of the situation : here

More than disappointed in these changes. I feel like Stormblood is the MNK expansion (like Heavensward was the DRG expansion) and getting the shaft like this is definitely harshing on all the excitement i Had.

I'm gonna miss fracture :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SixthHero

More than disappointed in these changes. I feel like Stormblood is the MNK expansion (like Heavensward was the DRG expansion) and getting the shaft like this is definitely harshing on all the excitement i Had.

---

Monk's been sidelined more and more as the poster job since Samurai was revealed in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Monk's been sidelined more and more as the poster job since Samurai was revealed in my opinion.

---

This. Ever since the reveal of the second half of the stormblood trailer, followed by Yoshi walking in with a full SAM cosplay, I felt like SAM and Doma in general dragged the carpet from under Monk.
This was supposed to be the Monk expansion, as HW was technically the DRG expansion. Yet Monk was changed the least, got nerfs every you look, and 3 new skills that essentially does nothing new as well as some new shoulder tackle traits, which is just weird tbh. Since when was Shoulder tackle this huge thing that needed so much attention?

I've mained mnk since I started playing in 2.4, and I have to say that I'm frustrated and disappointed with the design decisions that seem to have been made regarding how mnk is going to function in Stormblood.

The Tackle Mastery system seems clunky and too situational to see wide use - we're still going to be in Fists of Fire 99% of the time, and while having an extra Shoulder Tackle is nice, the two from Riddle of Wind put together have the same base potency (130) as the standard, no-frills version, but without the benefit of the flat 5% damage increase from FoF. I also question the usefulness of Riddle of Earth, considering that the proc apparently requires you to take damage...in order to take less damage and potentially trigger the GL duration increase (I don't even know what's up with the latter). In endgame content (or in any content, honestly), you do not want to take avoidable damage, let alone deliberately seek it out to activate an effect with dubious benefits. I also don't see the benefit of dropping Tornado Kick's cd to 10 seconds. It's a situational ability to begin with in that you only pop it if you know you're about to lose stacks or the boss is about to enter an invuln phase, and since the GL refresh from RoE potentially mitigates both of those scenarios to an extent (if you can, you know, actually manage to get it to work), drastically lowering the cooldown time on an ability that we barely use to begin with leaves me baffled as to how that might ever be advantageous.

We're also losing essentially mandatory (for endgame at least) abilities in the name of minimizing button bloat (B4B, Fracture, ToD, Mercy Stroke), and as a replacement, we get...a trait and set of abilities that we're apparently supposed to keybind all three Fist stances and all three Riddle abilities for, two and a half of which seem dubiously useful (30% damage boost on Riddle of Fire is lovely, but having the 15% gcd slowdown negates GL3 - which is one of the core mechanics of mnk as a class). What we're receiving in exchange for some of our dps (and the ability to hit ToD/Fracture to avoid clipping Demo and squeezing an extra tick out) does not seem to compensate for what is being removed, and if it does, it's entirely unclear how.

Also the loss of ToD and Fracture renders our core rotation simple to the point of boredom. DK/TS/Snap. Boot/True/Demo. Repeat ad nauseam.

As for Brotherhood? 5% increased damage for 15 seconds is great. 5% increased damage for 15 seconds on a 90-second cd that doesn't apply to the person using it is...less than great. The chakra gain from it depends on rng twice over; if your group is primarily casters, you start out at a significant disadvantage since the proc is based on weaponskill use specifically, and the proc itself is a 30% chance.

Forbidden Chakra is still (as far as I'm aware) on a 5-second cooldown, and the animation lock is long enough that you can't realistically double-weave it, which seems to be what we're apparently intended to do with RoF's gcd slowdown. Both Brotherhood and RoF have a 15-second duration.

If rng is in your favor, the maximum amount of boosted Forbidden Chakras you'd be able to get in either window is 3, and that is with FC nerfed to 250 potency.

Our burst capability will be based on rng, and ultimately isn't much of a burst at all, especially after taking a 10-potency nerf on our entire core rotation and dropping Demolish's duration to 18 seconds down from 21.

With all of these facts taken into consideration, the limited raid utility from Brotherhood and role actions (that we share with the three other melee dps classes) is not enough to render mnk useful or viable in comparison to drg and nin's personal dps and additional raid synergy/utility, and especially not in comparison to sam, who is looking to fill our role as The Selfish DPS (TM) better than we ever did.

I'm lucky that my static is willing to keep me, but I'll be leveling sam regardless, because as it stands I'm looking to be dead weight on the class I enjoy most.

It's sort of additional salt in the wound considering that Stormblood was pitched as The Monk Expansion (TM).

Tl;dr - The proposed changes to mnk are dubiously beneficial at best and actively detrimental at worst, we get nothing truly new or significantly useful, and I'm not happy either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This. Ever since the reveal of the second half of the stormblood trailer, followed by Yoshi walking in with a full SAM cosplay, I felt like SAM and Doma in general dragged the carpet from under Monk.
This was supposed to be the Monk expansion, as HW was technically the DRG expansion. Yet Monk was changed the least, got nerfs every you look, and 3 new skills that essentially does nothing new as well as some new shoulder tackle traits, which is just weird tbh. Since when was Shoulder tackle this huge thing that needed so much attention?

---

Nailed it, imo.

Why do people say "Mnk expansion"?. Isn't the expansion more about the story rather than the specific job? If that was the case, was ARR the War "expansion"?

I am EXTREMELY disappointed of what we've gotten in sb...it's so underwhelming it frustrates me.
Wasn't it SE goal to get rid of useless skills not give us more?

Let's start with riddles.
These are so underwhelming and boring skills...riddle of fire, buffs us 30% and lowers our speed...that speed nerf alone basically makes it around maybe 14% or so, it takes away our speed,Not sure about you but I play mnk for fast gameplay/GCD not to go slow and hit hard like a drg.
Overall the skill isn't that much of a train wreck but it does go against of what makes mnk fun to me.


Riddle of Earth..oh god..why...why did they give us this skill, we have to get hit to refresh our GL? what? The only fights I know where we have no control of getting hit is A12s from almost holy(But we can keep our GL fine during those) and a few face roll dgn boss.
actually...why even give us this skill at all? Just switching to fist of earth was enough migration to take a raid wide aoe, Why waste a skill to give us an extra 10%? did they forget mnk was a dps? Pretty sure we're not a tank...

Riddle of wind....what does this do again?...Oh right...a second shoulder tackle...awesome..thanks..just what I always wanted..

Shoulder tackle mastery...
A complete and utter waste of a new trait...
Fire tackle is just a "slightly" buffed shoulder tackle
Earth tackle is the dumbest thing they could've given mnk....it's a freaking knockback...they do know...mnk has GL to keep up and is melee..right?
Wind tackle..just a weaker tackle we can do twice that added up to the same power of fire tackle I think.

Man they could have at least change the freaking animations of the different tackles to make us feel it's at least new. Look at mch, their animations changed with the new heated shots...why do our shoulder tackles look the same?

Last is brotherhood; our party buff.
It gives the party a small 5% dmg buff and a 30% chance to gain a chakra from a weapon skill party member does...this makes us hate casters as caster do spells not weapon skills besides rdm I think.

All in all...mnk got nothing interesting imo everything we got is so boring and we're basically the only job in the game that got zero offensive skills...
We've been nerfed, we lost our single target king title to samurai, got lame boring skill that changes nothing..ugh..can they at least take away the fact that TK eats our GL? we use this skill so little it will feel like a new skill if they did.
Sorry for the vent, just needed to with fellow mnks instead of talking to my friends that don't care about mnk lol.

I think every main monk needed to vent because we really got screwed this time.

As if the person in charge of monk's new skills has absolutly no clue about how the job works.

I just can't get over how lazy it feels. Especially for one of the MAIN classes of the expansion.

An easy fix for Tornado Kick would be to have it only eat one stack of GL. Hell that'd even warrant all the Potency nerfs right there. It'd need to old recast, of course.

Or keep the new recast. TK and TFC for all!

or make it take the role of mercy stroke under 25% with a 40 or 30s cd

Someone in a White Mage thread on Reddit floated the idea that the concept of the Lily's seemed like it was designed with PVP in mind, and Riddle of Earth and Tackle Mastery seem to be the same. Riddle of Earth would take Monk from being tanky for a DPS right up to Tank-lite and the GL refresh would work pretty well with the longer duration in PVP and the fact that you'll actually be targeted by something other than AOEs. Earth Tackle and Wind Tackle would both be amazing for PVP where knockbacks and multiple rapid fire gap closers would be great. Tornado Kick's CD reduction would actually be useable with Perfect Balance, Somersault, and Axe Kick to rebuild your stacks.


Now if only they'd put them into the PVP actions.

Think monk lost itself after 1.0. Don't know how many remember but the job was amazing when we had the elemental wheel... and it packed a lot of power. Class was simple within itself too.

I've never been a fan of the GL mechanic in the first place. On paper it looks great but it's a bloody mess when you have EVERY boss jumping around like a mad man.

These changes have done nothing to excite me. Honestly though I don't know much they'd do to make me happy with monk again. Hopefully somehow playing it feels different then what I'm reading now