I280 weapons were a mistake

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People that have already gotten the 270/275 Anima can get the 280 weapon and glam it to look like the anima they worked so hard to get. Plus they probably get to skip a step in Stormblood's relic questline.

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It's ok saying that. But how do you know that in 2/3 weeks or lol 9 days they wont just out date the 280. It's ok to say you are fine with this, but in the bigger picture this could be the worst thing to agree with. I am not annoyed about the gear being outdated that should happen but the timescale is a p*** take.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

It was just a bad idea and really doesn't seem to help anyone but, those whom believe they can defy math and percentages. Ha I hate math and in the end this doesn't really seem to be makin very many people happy at all because it just does nothing for anyone at the end of the day. Hec Id rather them have just the 265 gear and thats all than creating an illusion of a dream that you actually have a shot at beating out 71 other people.

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Are you just quoting me to say what you feel like saying? You said it benefited no one. I was attempting to correct that. Your replies have been irrelevant to mine.

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

Are you just quoting me to say what you feel like saying? You said it benefited no one. I was attempting to correct that. Your replies have been irrelevant to mine.

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No Im just saying that , yea it may keep people playing but if noone in ur fc gets , the weapon then who does it benefit and the answer would be no one

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

No Im just saying that , yea it may keep people playing but if noone in ur fc gets , the weapon then who does it benefit and the answer would be no one

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Then say that next time. And it's certainly not a loss if none of us ever see the weapon drop in our inventory - It's not always about the destination. I'm not delusional about the drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

Then say that next time. And it's certainly not a loss if none of us ever see the weapon drop in our inventory - It's not always about the destination. I'm not delusional about the drop rate.

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you guys got more patience then me certainly good luck seriously I hope someone gets paid for their effort for those whom plan to grind for sure, I just cant even do that to myself

So, who should get the most powerful weapons in the game? Should it be the most skilled players (raid weapon)? Should it be the ones that put the most effort in (anima)? Or should it be the Anointed Children of RNGesus, fired into crowds by SE employees with T-Shirt launchers? Apparently SE thinks it should be the third. And here I am, silly me, thinking skill and effort should actually matter.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

So, who should get the most powerful weapons in the game? Should it be the most skilled players (raid weapon)? Should it be the ones that put the most effort in (anima)? Or should it be the Anointed Children of RNGesus, fired into crowds by SE employees with T-Shirt launchers? Apparently SE thinks it should be the third. And here I am, silly me, thinking skill and effort should actually matter.

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dude hardly anyone is gona get that weapon period haha so its more like whos being tricked into doing diadum for a .01 chance of gettin a weapon

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

dude hardly anyone is gona get that weapon period haha so its more like whos being tricked into doing diadum for a .01 chance of gettin a weapon

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Not me. I unsubbed. Vote with your wallet. If I wanted to have a very good weapon, I would have gone with Warring Triad EX and Script weapons. Instead, I put my blood, sweat and tears into an anima for a full year expecting it to be the best at the end. And it was...for a whopping nine days before we got blindsided by this. Sorry, SE. Slapping raiders and anima makers in the face just to get people in your terrible Diadem is inexcusable.

Putting a valuable weapon in diadem itself isn't that much of an issue, but there are some facts that do make this an issue:
- It's +3 WD for casters.. stat-wise it's more than a 5 ilvl gap. You could say there is a bug with the item level that's displayed on the item, and it actually being ilvl 285. It's not just BiS, it's A LOT better than any other weapon.
- It means that no matter how much effort you put in gearing up, you might NEVER get BiS before stormblood regardless of how much time you spend in the diadem.. getting BiS is for a lot of players a personal goal, which is now gated behind severe RNG instead of predictable grind or challenge. To add even more frustration, people that would farm for this weapon are likely to get it for a job they don't play.

A bit more subjective, but I think that this weapon adds more frustration than satisfaction to the game, and therefore I think it's a bad choice that it has been implemented like it is.

The grand majority of people are not seeing bis anyway, hell, bis isn't anything that is appreciated even by the game's systems, because it gets replaced with the next patch.

Gear is not to be cherished, and the players insisted on it not being cherished. This is simply the wrong game now to see bis or "enjoy being the best" however the way people even do that sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The grand majority of people are not seeing bis anyway, hell, bis isn't anything that is appreciated even by the game's systems, because it gets replaced with the next patch.

Gear is not to be cherished, and the players insisted on it not being cherished. This is simply the wrong game now to see bis or "enjoy being the best" however the way people even do that sort of thing.

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So anima weapons, which require a massive commitment of time, effort and gil, are not to be cherished? They were BIS for just nine days.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

With this little update and the i280 weapon SE litterally set the world on fire by making 2 years grind (relic weapon) and months of investment (savage clears) useless.

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Did we not have this discussion about your 135 relic weapons? Because I thought we had that discussion on 3.0

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Not me. I unsubbed. Vote with your wallet. If I wanted to have a very good weapon, I would have gone with Warring Triad EX and Script weapons. Instead, I put my blood, sweat and tears into an anima for a full year expecting it to be the best at the end. And it was...for a whopping nine days before we got blindsided by this. Sorry, SE. Slapping raiders and anima makers in the face just to get people in your terrible Diadem is inexcusable.

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You unsubbed because of a weapon drop that you don't like, in a new piece of content? IMHO that's a pretty weak reason to unsub a game. I understand your point about the potential for a BiS weapon that bests your relic coming so quickly, on the other hand, it's not like they are being handed out like the artifact weapon for a few Centurio seals. These weapons are going to be rare for a long time because of drop rates and RNG. Does their existence bother you that much?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The grand majority of people are not seeing bis anyway, hell, bis isn't anything that is appreciated even by the game's systems, because it gets replaced with the next patch.

Gear is not to be cherished, and the players insisted on it not being cherished. This is simply the wrong game now to see bis or "enjoy being the best" however the way people even do that sort of thing.

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The reason a lot of people even bother with grinding out the anima is because it'd be Best in Slot for a while.. and these 9 days between the 275 step and the new diadem that was because of a bug (so, shouldn't have even been there) directly makes that entire reason pointless, which means for a lot of people all that time grinding was wasted time.
You don't want people to feel they've wasted their time.

Note, there are more reasons to want the anima weapon, so I don't deny that most players are unaffected by it, but far less players will end up happy because they got that 280 weapon than people will be unhappy about the existence of it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

These weapons are going to be rare for a long time because of drop rates and RNG.

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Does that matter...?

It's a matter of principles. For all I care, they could put a BiS weapon into the cash shop at a high price - I can tell you those would be rare as well and it would affect me no bit more than those Diadem weapons. Moreover, they, too, would be outdated at some point anyway, so you can even bring that argument. But I'm very sure the forums would be on fire if SE were to do such a thing. Why? Principles. In this case, people think SE should not sell power "on principle".
In the case of that poster, he apparently thinks luck should not be more valuable than effort or talent "on principle". And just as in the case before, some would quit over those principles, others wouldn't. It's pretty simple, really.

The way I see it, the hardest content to succeed at should have the better weapons by default, followed by a timeline progression of strength.
Meaning if something has been out for 2-3 months, those who wanted to get that weapon as their next step would have by now.
The diadem weapons are simply the newest (and by luck factor, the hardest) weapon to get, so it trumps both lines of logic in gear progression.

It doesn't break the game. It doesn't invalidate any relic. It doesn't stop Heavy metal weapons from being moderately impressive to see. It's just a new piece of content that happens to be after both a raid tier and a relic phase. It's the closest thing to horizontal progression we have, yet it's still vertical! Maybe we'd call it diagonal?

Either way, I don't see any issue with the weapons.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Does that matter...?

It's a matter of principles. For all I care, they could put a BiS weapon into the cash shop at a high price - I can tell you those would be rare as well and it would affect me no bit more than those Diadem weapons. Moreover, they, too, would be outdated at some point anyway, so you can even bring that argument. But I'm very sure the forums would be on fire if SE were to do such a thing. Why? Principles. In this case, people think SE should not sell power "on principle".
In the case of that poster, he apparently thinks luck should not be more valuable than effort or talent "on principle". And just as in the case before, some would quit over those principles, others wouldn't. It's pretty simple, really.

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You can't compare Diadem to putting it in the cash shop.

There are people that are still worthless in any end game content and wouldn't even be able to get the 280 weapons. Anyone can buy a 280 cash shop item.

The complaint I keep hearing is that the effort people put into raiding or anima was worthless, even though A) Those were to be replaced anyways, and B) For anima specifically, it isn't "effort" since it's all just a waiting game. People quit this game over everything. Just look at 3.0 posts where people quit because their 135 weapon was pointless.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

There are people that are still worthless in any end game content and wouldn't even be able to get the 280 weapons.

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Uhm...they only need to be in a group that beats the Emergency Mission and get lucky. That's it. Anyone can do that. On the flip side, not anyone could just shell out, like, 60$ or something for a weapon like that.

I can not only compare the two, I can even turn your argument around. Because it's a stupid one that shows you haven't understood the purpose of the comparison: To show that people are willing to quit the game over principles, regardless of what those might be. And for that purpose, I can make more comparisons: Making a quest that glorifies sexism. Making a quest in which you need to torture chocobos. Making Legacy Items available to anyone. Or mailing everyone an i900 weapon at the start of Stormblood. IT DOES NOT MATTER for the point I was making.

How is anima not effort?!? Stage five required 60-80 umbrite, each costing 300 Lore. Do you think I just pulled that 18,000-24,000 Lore out of my backside? You say it's just waiting. Did I have to wait for the Lore fairy to flutter down and give it to me? Because I may be crazy, but I seem to recall running the ARF until my eyeballs bled. That...takes effort. Seventh phase required running content for condensation. I don't recall just waiting and letting people carry me through A1S farming. No, I put effort in.

Anime doesn't require effort, just waiting? Guessing you never made one.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Does that matter...?

It's a matter of principles. For all I care, they could put a BiS weapon into the cash shop at a high price - I can tell you those would be rare as well and it would affect me no bit more than those Diadem weapons. Moreover, they, too, would be outdated at some point anyway, so you can even bring that argument. But I'm very sure the forums would be on fire if SE were to do such a thing. Why? Principles. In this case, people think SE should not sell power "on principle".
In the case of that poster, he apparently thinks luck should not be more valuable than effort or talent "on principle". And just as in the case before, some would quit over those principles, others wouldn't. It's pretty simple, really.

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OK, I understand all of that. However, in every RPG I've ever played there are always things that drop rarely that are better than everything else. Not everything is something that is hard earned or built over a long time. It's one of the facets of RPGs I've had to come to terms with over the years. I see this weapon in Diadem very much in that light.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

**snip**
It doesn't break the game. It doesn't invalidate any relic. It doesn't stop Heavy metal weapons from being moderately impressive to see. It's just a new piece of content that happens to be after both a raid tier and a relic phase. It's the closest thing to horizontal progression we have, yet it's still vertical! Maybe we'd call it diagonal?

Either way, I don't see any issue with the weapons.

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Indeed.

Horizontal? Vertical? Nope, Diagonal. I nearly posted something similar the other day about diagonal progression in FFXIV and separating the vertical progression from the more diagonal progression of non-raid/non-endgame players.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

How is anima not effort?!? Stage five required 60-80 umbrite, each costing 300 Lore. Do you think I just pulled that 18,000-24,000 Lore out of my backside? You say it's just waiting. Did I have to wait for the Lore fairy to flutter down and give it to me? Because I may be crazy, but I seem to recall running the ARF until my eyeballs bled. That...takes effort. Seventh phase required running content for condensation. I don't recall just waiting and letting people carry me through A1S farming. No, I put effort in.

Anime doesn't require effort, just waiting? Guessing you never made one.

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It's ok. I feel the exact same way and will not even put my finger on a relic in 4.0 if SE keeps treating us badly like this.

I said it before, but I will say it again. I could have gone with Script/Warring Triad/Kinna weapons. 1/1000th the work, only slightly less powerful then the anima. I started the anima because once completed it was supposed to be the best until Stormblood, the same way the relic was the best until Heavensward. We were given no warning about this i180 uber-weapon. So we thought we were finally finished, holding our anima that took years and could just enjoy our BIS weapons until SB, just like relic owners did before HW. And then without any warning, just nine days later, the anima is suddenly second best.

Yes, I feel SE misled me any many others. If I had known there would be RNG god-weapons released less the two weeks after the anima was done I would never have started one.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Indeed.

Horizontal? Vertical? Nope, Diagonal. I nearly posted something similar the other day about diagonal progression in FFXIV and separating the vertical progression from the more diagonal progression of non-raid/non-endgame players.

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It really does feel like the best way to describe this. Glad I'm not alone! :D

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Originally Posted by Xerek

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Anime doesn't require effort, just waiting? Guessing you never made one.

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I have the blm relic. Why for glamour because I knew it was gonna be invalidated soon. It was a predictble outcome. You cry to much. If you're unsubbing go away. You SHOULD have expected this, the raid cycles always almost always when it comes to content, go casual, raid, primal, catchup/crafter, raid rinse-n-repeat. The relic just gets tossed in randomly through out those cycles. Its happened to every relic. How did you not see it coming. Also its a game. If a weapon that's rng based, that's primary n secondary stats are so rng based that it can very well end up weaker than a 250 weapon upsets you this much. You do need a break/new hobby. The Relic always gets pooped on. always. I laughed so hard when I seen ppl grinding lore. I knew your carrot was gonna be moldy before you got to catch it n fully enjoy it,

To be fair this is somewhat new territory, they have never completely invalidated raid gear/cap ilvl until a new raid tier or expansion is released. They've followed a very rigid progression system since 2.0 so this is kind of new even though it's just the weapon slot. (Maybe they are planning to take a hatchet to everyone's 270 gear too?) Everyone that has played for a while knows they replace gear eventually, just the timing of this one is odd and not normal going by past systems.

Yeah it's rare and layers of RNG, but I wouldn't give SE the idea they get a free pass because it has a low drop rate. Eureka might end up full of lockbox RNG progression systems.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

*snip*

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Um...were you even around for the relic weapon in 2.x? It wasn't outdated in nine days. It was BiS upon completion up until HW launched. But glad to know you were laughing at people who were putting work into the anima expecting the same because SE gave us no reason to believe otherwise. Says something.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Um...were you even around for the relic weapon in 2.x? It wasn't outdated in nine days. It was BiS upon completion up until HW launched. But glad to know you were laughing at people who were putting work into the anima expecting the same because SE gave us no reason to believe otherwise. Says something.

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ARR is ireelivant, your relic through HW which is your current relic, got pooped on with every primal patch, and crafter gear patch.

Edit: you had no reason to believe otherwise? think by seph ex you would of gotten the hint. They did a pretty good job of stealing relic makers glory over n over again.

Reinha said it best "It's 102 days until the expansion is released. Assuming exactly one weapon drops for 72 people and assuming you manage to successfully complete the emergency mission once per day every day and don't care which weapon drops (even if it's for a job that isn't 60 yet), then your chance of obtaining at least one weapon before Stormblood is

1 - (1 - (1/72))^102
= 1 - (1 - 0.0138888889)^102
= 1 - 0.9861111111^102
= 1 - 0.2401247539
= 0.7598752461
= 76%

where 102 is the number of successful kills and 1/72 is the drop chance. 1/(72 x 13) = 1/936 would be the drop chance for a specific weapon."

and then on top of it, both its primary and secondary stats are rng based, with a very good potential for it to be 280 in name only cause ive seen a lot of 280 weapons already that have stats that don't even compare to a 250 weapon. Your literally having a tantrum over the fact that maybe 3 or 4 at best are going to have something better than you.

See prior response. If I wanted a very good weapon, I would have gone with Triad/Kinna/Script weapons. The only reason I put the work into the anima was because it was supposed to be the best at the end, until SB. And then, just nine days after completion, it's not. I do not have a BiS weapon up until SB, I have a very good one. See the second sentence regarding very good.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

I seem to recall running the ARF until my eyeballs bled. That...takes effort.

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No, that takes time.

The hardest thing about spamming dungeons or FATEs is forcing yourself to do it when you could be doing something fun. But calling it, "effort" is laughable.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

See prior response. If I wanted a very good weapon, I would have gone with Triad/Kinna/Script weapons. The only reason I put the work into the anima was because it was supposed to be the best at the end, until SB. And then, just nine days after completion, it's not. I do not have a BiS weapon up until SB, I have a very good one. See the second sentence regarding very good.

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Well you thought wrong and at no point did they in HW even hint at it being the best, you made the mistake of assuming, because of outdated info you fell back on from ARR. Sorry the fault is on you. "“Assumptions equal a loss of pride and the sting of defeat.” ― Donna Lynn Hope. enjoy your 'very good' weapon.

Can't honestly say I'm particularly bothered by the weapons. I'll soon have 3 completed relics and don't see a point to farming for a weapon that's only just.

Oh, lets not forget Yoshi in a few of his interviews even mentioned he didn't want people getting set on BIS and was avoiding it, Every patch something better came long, a new primal weapon, A new casual content, crafter gear, ect ect. They threw a wrench at the "im a raider im so good, look at me, I got relic der der der" mentality at every turn. They gave you all the warnings you needed to know your anima had a good chance of being on a level playing field with casuals. Once again, "Assumptions are the downfall of every mans pride" - Gandhi

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

Oh, lets not forget Yoshi in a few of his interviews even mentioned he didn't want people getting set on BIS and was avoiding it, Every patch something better came long, a new primal weapon, A new casual content, crafter gear, ect ect. They threw a wrench at the "im a raider im so good, look at me, I got relic der der der" mentality at every turn. They gave you all the warnings you needed to know your anima had a good chance of being on a level playing field with casuals. Once again, "Assumptions are the downfall of every mans pride" - Gandhi

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he also said that raid weapons would always be best i level, which is why they changed from 90 ti 95over the then current myth relic. And that RDM wouldnt make it in this game with how the roles and system are. And many other things

Point is, people have a right to be angry, for obvious reasons, but then who wants to go to a special area to do FATEs. if not for a silly pink weapon with random stats? That weapon had to be better, or it was DOA.

Where, exactly, did Yoshi say the anima would not be the best at the end? Source, please.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

they have never completely invalidated raid gear/cap ilvl until a new raid tier or expansion is released. They've followed a very rigid progression system since 2.0. Everyone that has played for a while knows they replace gear eventually, just the timing of this one is odd and not normal going by past systems.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Um...were you even around for the relic weapon in 2.x? It wasn't outdated in nine days. It was BiS upon completion up until HW launched. But glad to know you were laughing at people who were putting work into the anima expecting the same because SE gave us no reason to believe otherwise. Says something.

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This just reiterates to me that SE has no clue what they are doing with their game. That they are lacking direction and just changing things on the go. Truthfully, I don't have much faith for the expansion at this point. I expect certain jobs to be continued to be nerfed and homogenized while others are buffed. SE has their favs.

For a "casual" game, there sure is a ton of weekly grinding to stay on par with gear continuously being outdated every 2-3 months. That's not casual. That's a damn job to keep up with.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

Where, exactly, did Yoshi say the anima would not be the best at the end? Source, please.

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It was after Gordias Savage when they made some ilvl mistakes, making the anima the same as the raid weapon ilvl. This is truth to this because the anima only went up to i240 during Midas, and the A8S weapons were i245. So you had to get an A8S weapon to get the highest.

This tier we had over 5 months of i275 exclusive if you cleared A12S. Plus this is the end of the xpac, and a victory lap step is more than okay at this point just like it was in ARR.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

"“Assumptions equal a loss of pride and the sting of defeat.” ― Donna Lynn Hope. .

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Yep, Never ever go for loot just because it's BiS, it's never worth your time. It will be replaced, and you put yourself in a vulnerable position where you can get your feelings hurt, whenever SE decides to troll the playerbase. (And this is SE trolling, I'm convinced it's 100% intentional). What I learned from playing MMOs is that you should always consider "fun" as the most important reward for whatever you do.

Anyway, I find the weapon bad game design, I find it disappointing that SE would actually do this.
From a business perspective, however, it can be a good move. That carrot is gonna help keeping the diadem alive up 'till stormblood regardless of how good the content is, so they could simply rush the new diadem and spend more resources on the expansion.

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Originally Posted by technole

It was after Gordias Savage when they made some ilvl mistakes, making the anima the same as the raid weapon ilvl. This is truth to this because the anima only went up to i240 during Midas, and the A8S weapons were i245. So you had to get an A8S weapon to get the highest.

This tier we had over 5 months of i275 exclusive if you cleared A12S. Plus this is the end of the xpac, and a victory lap step is more than okay at this point just like it was in ARR.

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A victory lap for nine days. And Yoshi was talking about the anima being weaker then the relic during it's development, and never said a thing about it not being BiS once completed. The plan was to be just like 2.x, and it was...until SE realized how awful the new Diadem was and had to toss uber-god weapons in just to get people to step foot in it.