Remember When Tanks Asked Before Large Pulls?

Well it kind of depends on the party and their gear, I can usually tell with a glance at their hp how good a group will do.

Specifically earlier today, I had a nin with 24k HP, a whm with 20kish hp, and a smn with 23k hp. I assumed they'd be fine if I pulled big and I was right, they absolutely demolished EX Gubal, we cleared the place in roughly 11 minutes. Strix was dead before he even summoned the behemoth.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I know it's a small dps loss to macro abilities, but the alternative will put me to sleep! Like I said before, I find using my full suite of abilities much more engaging than mashing a single button non stop for however long it takes. Much more efficient to make a macro to spam that one ability endlessly while I browse the forums.

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Except there is no reason to ever use that suite of abilities for trash. Holy spam will always trump single target damage regardless if the tank pulls three mobs or ten. Furthermore, unless you have an awful tank, they won't require any healing except against bosses. The scenario you're attempting to illustrate doesn't happen in any dungeon run with a remotely competent tank. So either you're purposely single targeting mobs or healing the tank for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'd better not see any of you hardcore posers jump ship from any of these dungeons you want to impose on other players. Just sayin'.

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I wouldn't... I like to try and try and try until the timer runs out and we are kicked due to duty failure. Even if I throw myself into a Level 2 Limit Break IRL over it.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

R.I.P. Pharos, Copperbell and Haukke manor. Best and only good dungeons ever created.

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Dunno for you but Haukke we often took the 2nd coridor and basement in one big pack (mostly with caster lb for basement) and copperbell it happend sometime that there were big pull between 2nd and 3rd boss

Only pharos was a challenge because bosses had real metta but it was too complicated for casuals so why keep doing it << It was the first and only dungeon ever nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Only pharos was a challenge because bosses had real metta but it was too complicated for casuals so why keep doing it << It was the first and only dungeon ever nerfed.

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To be fair, it wasn't nerfed because of casuals, it was nerfed because people didn't know how to watch their damage. The only real 'wall' was the beautiful first boss, because suddenly too much dps was bad! Shame too, I loved that aspect of it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

. So either you're purposely single targeting mobs or healing the tank for no reason.

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I run content as all roles. XD My example of my whm macro was just that, an example. DPSing as a healer is even easier in my experience than with tanks or dps!

Regarding OP... As a tank, I make sure to examine the dps/healer before moving on. If the ilevel seems high enough, I'll go with a big pull, if they struggle, I'll pull smaller. Also if there are casters in the group or more melee classes? It just takes a little thinking and visual confirmation to determine if the group can handle the pulls or not. Adjust as needed and no worries. Asking to pull large is not needed, but it's nice of you if you do and won't be looked down upon.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Only pharos was a challenge because bosses had real metta but it was too complicated for casuals so why keep doing it << It was the first and only dungeon ever nerfed.

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actually... Amdapor Keep was the first dungeon they have nerferd (removed some enemys in 2.1 and reduced enemys HP and strenght) and later in 2.2 they nerfed Amdapor Keep again (the same patch when they nerfed Pharos) by removing the bee adds in the Demon Wall fight and reduced the damage of the purple(?) orb the last boss spawns in the middle the arena, where you have to hide behind the statues.

Don't forget, dotting on the journey, not sure I've seen anyone mention that. As we're running forward and the tanks collecting mob packs, soon as he's got that flash off I'll be hitting each one with combust and aero as we're still running forward, then gravity spam when he finally does stop until I have to drop cleric and ED him. I know those dots aren't ground-breaking dps, but every little helps

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Unrelated, but I echo the sentiment that big pulls are a snoozefest

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On my end, it's the opposite. (Personal experience)

A) When I go as a tank (I play WAR), it's less engaging because the mobs hit like a wet noodle. It makes the job more boring because I have a strong AoE DPS that is pretty much wasted on small pulls. My skillset is also ready for big pulls, it's not something crazy. With DRK must be the same. Can't say the same about PLD as they lack AoE damage but a super reliable skillset to avoid getting damaged at all, enabling the DPS/Healer to burn the group of mobs in no time.
B) When I go as a healer (I play SCH), it's less engaging because I'm wasting AoE damage con 2 or 3 mobs at a time. I rarely have to heal the tank, when Eos/Selene can pretty much take care of it. It's boring because I don't have to worry about the tank. I just sit there and DPS until things disappear. It's slow and not engaging. I'd assume it's the same for the other jobs, as a couple of regens do the trick.
C) When I play DPS (I play BLM), it's boring. An actual rotation is overkill for trash mobs. AoEs, although is quite simple, in mass pulling bring efficiency. You can have your actual rotations for bosses.

Since I DF a lot, I realized that mass pulling has become the norm. At first I used to ask if the group was down for it, and every-single-time they answered "Yes", "There's no other way", "Please do", etc. Small pulls are a minority.

I had this issue recently when doing a leveling roulette running DD. The healer in our group was very new, still had the green leaf (his gear was all over the place), but the Tank was decked out level 60 gear. The tank just ran through without a word and we wiped 4 times on regular mobs, not even the bosses. The healer just couldn't keep up, but the tank didn't really care, resulting in the dungeon taking far longer than what it needed to.

I understand that the dungeons are easy and often boring or whatever, but there are people who are just starting the game and don't understand the basic concepts of gear, or even being in a party with randoms.

I still think its important for tanks to at least consider the party make up, and making appropriate decisions about how to run dungeons before lunging through every mob like its a race.

And if all you ever want to do is speed run through every dungeon you come across, then do it with people who feel the same way as you.

I still ask when tanking expert roulette, and people seem to appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Only pharos was a challenge because bosses had real metta but it was too complicated for casuals so why keep doing it << It was the first and only dungeon ever nerfed.

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No... Amdapor Keep was actually the first. Remember the bees ?
People were like :
http://i.imgur.com/FpwQnlH.gif

And SE killed them. ;A;


Edit : Sorry, didn't see Tint already said it. ^^;

Based on the duty, I look at the healer's gear and relative level, and that determines whether I ask if a large pull is okay.

New healer in Snowcloak: "large pulls okay?" Wait for response from healer.

120-130+ geared or synced from max healer in any 50 dungeon: wait for buffs and off we go.

250+ healer in EX: wait for buffs and off we go.

Healer with mix of 200-230 gear in EX: I'm gonna assume they're a returning player and ask if they can heal a large pull here.

It's situational. Also, if I do a huge pull without asking if it's okay and I die, I'm going to apologize and take the blame.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I still ask when tanking expert roulette, and people seem to appreciate it.

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Pull more Pond, PULL MORE.

Pharos was nerfed because it was harder than the other expert dungeon while giving the same exact rewards. People would intentionally not unlock Pharos for the roulette.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

This used to be a thing, but now I don't see it anymore. How come?

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Because every tank in the game realized at the same time that tanking 12 mobs is just as easy as tanking 3. This was around the time that people whined so much that Pharos Sirius was too hard that SE decided to neuter any form of difficulty from Expert dungeon going forward.

This was also around the time that healers started complaining that people expected them to do more in dungeons than pop Medica II, Regen and then go afk.