Please lift glamour restrictions!

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Hello, Lord of the Rings Online.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Most other MMOs are not linked to a iconic series that has been around since 1987 and has certain aspects that make it part of the FF series.

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Where did I say "all MMOs"?

Just because some other games do certain things does not mean this game should always follow suit. FFXIV is not Lord of the Rings Online or vice versa. Each of them follow their own original lore from their own series.

Besides it appears LotR online has a different kind of restrictive aspect since some of the classes are locked to certain races. So instead of limiting glamour to have some restrictions they limited what races can be what classes (highly likely that they have these restrictions due to their iconic source material/lore). So again you can't use "well LotR did it so we should do what they do" as some sort of argument in favour of what you personally want. They still have restrictions just like FFXIV; it just happens to be different ones. LotR follows its own lore which creates some restrictions just as FFXIV follows its own lore which creates some restrictions.

Lore is a perfectly valid reason for keeping job specific gear locked to those jobs.

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

So tell me, what are your thoughts on cross-class weapon glamours? It would be just a glamour. I might want to be a white mage that heals with a carpenter's saw. I could tell you it would be fun for me, and ask that devs take the time away from their development plans to implement what I believe will improve the game.

I'm hoping that you will draw a line, and understand that people wanting to preserve an otherwise "convincing" fantasy aesthetic actually have a point.

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And may I ask like Ive asked everyone else what did the game do to explain the job system in the game other than your a warrior of light nothing. I mean main hand weapon is wat makes the job not the gear that you put on a warrior is a warrior because they have an axe , same with a carp has a saw. If my drk is wearing a mag hat with your logic that makes them a mage no it doesnt its just clothes its a drk because of their sword. There is nothing convincing about a whm that can turn into basicly a monk which is essientaiily a pro boxer but people do it anyway because they can, the same way they would glam their gear because its an option

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Originally Posted by Naunet

This doesn't follow at all, given past experiences with wardrobe systems that have neither class nor level restrictions on what you can costume. They are hardly a "mess". They are, however, quite fun to play around with when making outfits for characters.

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There are almost no MMOs with wardrobe systems with neither class or level restrictions. Rift is the only one I am aware of and yeah, the themes of its world are kind of a mess.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

There are almost no MMOs with wardrobe systems with neither class or level restrictions. Rift is the only one I am aware of and yeah, the themes of its world are kind of a mess.

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But what do those games have in common you can only level one class per character , the reason it makes sense here is because you can play every job on one character so you are every job.

And esp the example the op gave a scholar and a summour come on really they come from the same class, but you cant wear boots from one give me a break really. This game lets you play all characters on one so there for the jobs arent separated by character so why would you want to create restrictions when the job system is one of the least restrictive in an mmo. How can one be totally fine with level all jobs on one charcter but then act like these jobs are separate, they would be separate if it was done like other mmos but it isnt, here you even carry traits from the other job. So should we stop having cross class skills because in the past a job didnt use this certain ability no we shouldn't so if we can play all jobs on one then there is no reason not to allow us to wear certain gear. You can acknowledge that your healer is on the same character that your tank is on because the game made it that way.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And may I ask like Ive asked everyone else what did the game do to explain the job system in the game other than your a warrior of light nothing. I mean main hand weapon is wat makes the job not the gear that you put on a warrior is a warrior because they have an axe , same with a carp has a saw. If my drk is wearing a mag hat with your logic that makes them a mage no it doesnt its just clothes its a drk because of their sword. There is nothing convincing about a whm that can turn into basicly a monk which is essientaiily a pro boxer but people do it anyway because they can, the same way they would glam their gear because its an option

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But they ARE healing with a WHM staff! It just LOOKS like a saw. Because ILLUSIONS! Monk glamour would be even better! Now I can heal WITHOUT a weapon at all! Emperor's New Fists, baby! Now let me touch you. Let me touch you ALL over with my healing hands! You'll feel better, I promise. And if it scars you, I'll just Esuna that away, too.

The "logic" you mocked was directed towards the fact one of the main arguments was "you're not equipping the gear, you're just using illusions to change the LOOK!" Nirokun merely followed THAT logic and applied it to weapon glamours because it's the same exact logic. If you mock the logic of weapons, you mock the logic of armor.

You see, if you truly believe in your position, you must also consider what your position entails in it's entirety. You cannot simply agree to one side and shirk away from other aspects that it encompasses. You cannot claim to be for limitless freedom of choice but still restrict what the freedom opens up. If there's possibilities in that position that allows for options you don't want, then... how sure in your position can you be?
If you believe in no restrictions to glamours, it should also entail weapons. You must consider that, as it falls under that position.

In fact, you asked "what did the game do to explain the job system in the game other than you're a warrior of light? Nothing" And you're exactly right. Nothing. That includes glamour. The game surely didn't mention anything of THAT in any cutscenes through the story. Or any tutorial pop-ups explaining the job system. The Hall of Novice never brings up armor, either. You bringing up such a thing as a rebuttal hardly adds anything to either side. Following that logic, glamour shouldn't exist in the first place.

I see no issue in Nirokun's rebuttal. There is plenty of logic to it. In fact, Weapon glamours SHOULD be discussed. Or at least considered for those that are pro-glamour

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Sigh I just don't understand the pick and chose logic here, when I came to this game I played other mmos where you could pick one job or class per character if you wanted something different run another character pretty much in all of them. I come to this one and find out how unique it is in regards to letting you play everything on one character I thought surely there must be some grand explanation for how this is possible, hah as I continued to play I realized that there was none. People go on and on about lore and what makes sense and what doesnt make sense to why this or that can happen in a game.

But seems I'm the only person that is asking the question how in the hec can my whm no karate, or knows how to box nobody wants an explinaton for this nobody cares about this. But yet this is one of the most appealing parts of the game that you can play all on one, but the game gives you no reason other than you are an adventurer or you are the warrior of light so theres your answer.take it or leave it.

So you are tellin me that Im suppose to worry about a blm wearing an armor chest plate. But Im asked to not wont a connection or some sort of dialogue explaining to me how Im a master of unbelievable magic, and I am a master of the physical combats? To me without any good reason for this then lore can just protain to the story alone and the job quest everything else is free game because the devs didnt care to explain something that so important to their games function.

So its basically like ive said dont give me a reason to how in the heck I even have the ability to cast magic and then to change into a ninja and no a totally different style of combat and not one npc even acknowledges this in the game, but yet I have to explain why I should be able to wear a specific type of gear Im lost here? You cant ask someone to over look something so major and then ask them to understand why you cant wear a piece of clothing due to lore reasons, if lore is that important then they need to go back explain how we can even do what we do in the first place warrior of light isnt good enough.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And may I ask like Ive asked everyone else what did the game do to explain the job system in the game other than your a warrior of light nothing. I mean main hand weapon is wat makes the job not the gear that you put on a warrior is a warrior because they have an axe , same with a carp has a saw. If my drk is wearing a mag hat with your logic that makes them a mage no it doesnt its just clothes its a drk because of their sword. There is nothing convincing about a whm that can turn into basicly a monk which is essientaiily a pro boxer but people do it anyway because they can, the same way they would glam their gear because its an option

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all I can hear when i read this wall of silliness is summed up in my second post in the thread:

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Originally Posted by GMERC

http://i.imgur.com/iOwMmEn.png

Well, in that case, I should be able to equip any weapon as any job!! And use all of my job's abilities at once!! Why should I suddenly forget how to cast White Magic just because I picked up a Greatsword????? Well why can't I have Garuda-Egi out as a Black Mage, huh!? Why is my level lower when I equip a job that's lower than my main? Shouldn't they all be level 60, since I've already gotten to level 60 before? Gee Square Enix, talk about a bad game design!!

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It's a game, and the game doesn't have to do anything the developers don't want it to just because you personally don't think it's "realistic".

Like, it's clear you haven't played a Final Fantasy game with a job system before, and that's fine? So I guess I'll spell out what should obvious: Just because you can play more than one job does not mean you are simultaneously endowed with every single aspect of them at all times. Changing jobs is like changing characters. You aren't an omni class just because you've leveled a few different ones. Your power comes specifically from whichever Soul Crystal you are utilizing at any given time. Please get over it.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I said the line needs to be drawn somewhere in order to make a compromise to cater to both sides. Open up the other gear, but keep the job specific gear locked to the job still. That way if people want more choices they have a lot more, and people who like to have some gear specific to jobs can keep those (FYI most of the gear in the game is not job specific).

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It's important to note that Glamour in its current state already IS the compromise. The goalpost does not need to be moved further just because somebody made their first ever impossible glamour gear preview and got upset. The rest of us who have done that (admit it, everyone has once) shrugged our shoulders and moved on, we didn't act like the very fact that we couldn't was somehow wrong and needed changing. Glamour doesn't need changing to appeal to a negligible minority who want to be tincan mages.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

important to note that Glamour in its current state already IS the compromise. The goalpost does not need to be moved further just because somebody made their first ever impossible glamour gear preview and got upset. The rest of us who have done that (admit it, everyone has once) shrugged our shoulders and moved on, we didn't act like the very fact that we couldn't was somehow wrong and needed changing. Glamour doesn't need changing to appeal to a negligible minority who want to be tincan mages.

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Well that depends. If I hear it from a dev then okay, but you can't just throw out that it already is the compromise since you don't factually know that (unless you have some link to something the devs said and didn't post it or you are a dev in disguise or something :D ). They may have planned for this to be the system all along? Only the devs know :/

I like the system just fine how it is, but you can't ignore that others might want more options (I am trying to be understanding of what other people like even if I don't like it); they may be the minority in which then it should not be changed, but we don't know if they are the minority unless you start interviewing a lot of players. So my suggestion was IF there are a lot of people who want more glamour open then a compromise would probably be best so as not to totally ruin FF lore and job specific gear which has been around since FFI.

I personally don't want it since I don't want casters and healers running around in full armor like I said in an earlier post (maybe you missed it), but my personal desires aren't the only ones out there. So that's why I said the line should be drawn at the job specific gear (as in the gear that is specific to only one job) because I feel it is a staple of the FF series, a big part of job lore, and it makes the most sense to stop there if they do decide to open up the other gear.

It's just my two cents because IF there is a majority (or SE decides they want to do it) I want SE to remember that the job specific gear is a big part of the job lore and not to remove those restrictions. You never know what SE might decide to listen to and then subsequently change. Besides that they've already technically re-purposed old gearsets into gearsets for different jobs in HW (some of the crafted gear you get from MSQ) so they've already kind of done some gear already just different versions of the same set wearable by different jobs this time.

See, we really need a glam sub forum, more than 10 pages since yesterday evening xD

I wish we had a system a la Rift (it's fun how english uses our "à la" expression, it's cute ^^) you can "glam" wathever you want whenever you want (they use a separat armour sheet whic is....pretty simple to use actually oO) and it's account wide, once you unlocked a glam on a charact it's unlocked for all you characters.

I know it means a lot of work to revamp all the system but what i don't get is, if a company like Trion with a F2P game did it (financially speaking) how can a company like SE, with a sub + CS MMO (and a lot of other incomes from a lot of games) say they don't have the ressources to do it ? ^^"
There is a common belief on the forum that we, FF14 players funded FF15....when is FF15 and others games are going to fund us too ? :/

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Your first point is baffling as far as lore excuses go, and as for point two... I really don't think potential clipping issues should be a concern. Let players mix and match and decide if certain things clipping doesn't float their boat.

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For point 1: Well, you're neither a Scholar of Nym nor a Padjal of the Twelveswood nor are you Koji so you can't really prove me wrong even though it is "baffling".

As for point 2, why do you think SE hasn't introduced really long hair yet? Outside of NPCs, they won't introduce long hair due to clipping issues. SE has done that on purpose.

Also, SE shouldn't "coddle" players by removing glamour restrictions.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

all I can hear when i read this wall of silliness is summed up in my second post in the thread:

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How am I to take that lore as the answer to all things when there is a jump potion coming that will allow you to skip 75 percent of it. So if someone can pay to skip all dungeons but have them checked even tho they have never done them , have all msq checked even if they arent really completed but I cant wear boots from another class there is something seriously wrong.

What the devs are doing with this feature to me is saying well lore is important but getting players to enjoy the game is even more important, so maybe some of the players should just stop taking things so serious and just let others play how they would like to.

The lore argument is dead with what the devs have decided to do to their own story , so if people can skip the actual lore then why on earth would you restrict gear because of lore reasons that would just really be stupid. So if you want your drk , pali , warrior to look traditional have at it, but I want my whm to look like a warrior mage then let me do the same thing, after all me doing this would not effect your game play in any way shape or farm.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

How am I to take the lore as the answer to all things when there is a jump potion coming that will allow you to skip 75 percent of it. So if someone can pay to skip all dungeons but have them checked even tho they have never done them , have all msq checked even if they arent really completed.

If the devs are doing this to me that says well lore is important but getting players to enjoy the game is even more important, so maybe some of the players should just stop taking things so serious and just let others play how they would like to.

The lore argument is dead with what the devs have decided to do to their own story , so if people can skip the actual lore then why on earth would you restrict gear because of lore reasons that would just really be stupid. So if you want your drk , pali , warrior to look traditional have at it, but I want my whm to look like a warrior mage then let me do the same thing, after all me doing this would not effect your game play in any way shape or farm.

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You're not even reading posts you reply to, are you? You can stop, now.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

You're not even reading posts you reply to, are you? You can stop, now.

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I actually am I read what you said and your reason isnt a reason other than well I dont think it should happen so it shouldn't. You have no reason other than this , I was just explaining how the devs will do what needs to be done to make the player base happy and from the looks of the op's post more people agreed with him than not so you are actually in the minority.

No, actually we are all in the minority here; the real majority is on the game and really don't care about the fact that we can't wear the whm underwear on our other jobs, so... Enjoy your great victory, i guess.
Don't forget how the people were about the cash shop on the forum; did it stop SE ? No, not really. Majority, you said ?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So if you want your drk , pali , warrior to look traditional have at it, but I want my whm to look like a warrior mage then let me do the same thing, after all me doing this would not effect your game play in any way shape or farm.

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Then you should better ask for more diversity on the gear design than asking to wear a drk armor as whm. And i would totally agree with that.
Especially since i really want some specific armors for healers, for example. Three years of robes/cloth...

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I actually am I read what you said and your reason isnt a reason other than well I dont think it should happen so it shouldn't. You have no reason other than this , I was just explaining how the devs will do what needs to be done to make the player base happy and from the looks of the op's post more people agreed with him than not so you are actually in the minority.

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What reason can someone give you without you dismissing it entirely because of a pig suit? The lore is reason enough for the restrictions, and if that isn't reason enough for you then just accept that the devs don't want mages running around in tank armor and that is that. You might want to look to the freedoms you do have in the game rather than the ones you do not if you want to continue to have an enjoyable experience.

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

No, actually we are all in the minority here; the real majority is on the game and really don't care about the fact that we can't wear the [/SIZE]

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I'm not claiming any victory here , that's the thing I have no disagreement with Gmerc or anyone else who posted. Because if I get what I want or op wants what happens to Gmerc are the more traditional player, nothing it doesnt effect his game play he can still wear his gear specific stuff that he would like to wear and I have no problem with that at all. The people whom are opposing the idea are the ones who have a problem with someone elses style of play if you wana wear your stuff as intended then fine , but dont bash someone for not wanting to conform to social norms in a video game ,because it is just that a video game.

With what I would like to do it doesnt oppose anyones point of view of what currently is going on in the game right now, because with change you can either chose to take part in it are chose not to. He just doesnt even want people to have an option at all which Im not gona tell anyone how they should play the game as long as its not effecting anyone elses game play.

I just have found it sure is alot of people that want to tell people how they should play the game when it has nothing to do with combat nor does it effect players in a dungeon , raid, guildheist, hunt whatever their thing maybe. Everyones reason here is no because I dont like it well if you dont like it play your style let others have the option to play how they want, but I guess thats a lil bit to much to ask on these forums

I mostly want the glamour restriction on mages to be lifted somewhat (let us wear more leathers). Also to be allowed to glamour into one of the Crafter sets. Imagine a SCH wearing the level 50 ALC set.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

What reason can someone give you without you dismissing

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This is my favorite game its my main game but the devs contradict their lore all throughout the game so im not gona act like its some holy code. Oh my healer cant wear an armor piece, but yet the devs provide reindeer suits and santa suits for everyone to wear, if you wana talk about lore then there is no Christmas in this realm according to the lore, but there are Christmas trees all over the zones right now, neither would there be a Halloween but we had pumpkins to.

Thats not lore thats not anything that has to do with the realm but its in the game because its a video game and its meant to be fun. All this well lore says this talk is draining the fun and exploration out of the game, because its not a golden rule it can be changed whenever the people who work on the game want it to change. So if you dont have a problem with people celebrating Christmas on another planet thats not earth, then why on earth would you have a problem with a scholar wearing summoner boots?

With the current system do you know how many other healers I see wearing the samething the dress with the stomach showing is so common, the full dress, and another peice. Its pretty bad

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I mostly want the glamour restriction on mages to be lifted somewhat (let us wear more leathers). Also to be allowed to glamour into one of the Crafter sets. Imagine a SCH wearing the level 50 ALC set.

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Honestly, the crafter specific gears are something I definitely agree with you on. If not just because some of those outfits are too cool to be wasted on just afking in town.

I definitely agree that SE should remove the glamour restrictions on the vast majority of gear in the game. But the AF sets are an important exception. Those alone should remain locked to the job they represent, and should do so precisely because they represent that job. Every job in Final Fantasy has an iconic look (based off earlier games where you didn't get any choice in what outfit your character wore except by changing jobs). In every non-MMO Final Fantasy with a job system, your job determines your outfit.

Here, because it's an MMO and people want to look different from each other, we're given far more freedom in choosing what to wear. But Final Fantasy fans (and SE themselves) don't want to lose the iconic looks of each job that have followed the series through so many games. That's what the AF sets were created for, to preserve those iconic FF job designs within this game. Turning them into just generic outfits that you could wear with any job would destroy that. Their whole purpose for existing is their link to the job they represent.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Honestly, the crafter specific gears are something I definitely agree with you on. If not just because some of those outfits are too cool to be wasted on just afking in town.

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China already is selling the crafter and gatherer AFs in their cash shops.
http://i.imgur.com/Q0hDgJh.png

Maybe it'll they'll do the same here soon?

Then again, why would it be ok to wear crafter and gatherer AFs?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This is my favorite game its my main game but the devs contradict their lore all throughout the game so im not gona act like its some holy code. Oh my healer cant wear an armor piece, but yet the devs provide reindeer suits and santa suits for everyone to wear, if you wana talk about lore then there is no Christmas in this realm according to the lore, but there are Christmas trees all over the zones right now, neither would there be a Halloween but we had pumpkins to.

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It's funny how you say the devs contradict their lore when your statement on seasonal events contradicts how they are ingame, especially since you can't even get their names right. Starlight Celebration (Christmas) and All Saints Wake (Halloween) are actually part of the lore, like how Starlight Celebration originated from Ishgard/Coerthas near the start of the Dragonsong War, while All Saints Wake is about the saints ascending to the celestial realm of the Twelve, leaving Eorzea temporarily vulnerable to increased amounts of creatures of darkness showing up.

When it comes to the gear obtained from those events, they all have to be tagged as All Classes/Lvl 1 (due to the fact that they'd want everyone to be able to wear it), and their glamour system is likely coded in such a way that it simply allows glamouring of anything that says "All Classes".

While I still think they could lessen the restrictions on glamours (like the crafted skirt I mentioned in a previous reply), job-defining gear should remain exclusive to the job it's part of.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

It's funny how you say the devs contradict their lore when

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Im of both minds give more options are just let us make the options doesnt matter to me because at the end of the day it is just gear and thats all. If I want story if I want lore thats called msq or job quest.

But please answer me this nobody has answered how does what Im suggesting effect you in a dungeon , raid, or whatever kinda content you like to run on the game. Other than your oppositon there is really no reason at all to why it that would drastically change the way you proceed in combat. This idea doesnt effect anything other than people dont like the idea of it.

If lore was so important the devs would stick to their code of forcing u to do msq to get through content but they cut corners with ( introducing a jump potion) to make people happy. If enough people wanted this then those opposers would just have to suck it up just like the people that want it to change now are doing so.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

But please answer me this nobody has answered how does what Im suggesting effect you in a dungeon , raid, or whatever kinda content you like to run on the game. Other than your oppositon there is really no reason at all to why it that would drastically change the way you proceed in combat. This idea doesnt effect anything other than people dont like the idea of it.

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It does. The art-team designs those gear thats for one specific class for this one specific class and thats influencing how they're designing it in order to represent that one class best. If you lift the restriction on it thats obviously gone and we will see a lot more of generic armour because after all everyone can wear everything on any job. Look how generic and recycled the shared pieces look already!
Let the art-team design those special gear for one specific job to give them the chance to make it fit that one job really well because its only meant for that one job.

And please... stop using "but we can do silly stuff with [bikini/pig suit/maid costume/event gear/etc.] already!" as an excuse - that stuff is meant to be funny and silly while the real gear isnt (...except for the last SMN-set, maybe). That gear was designd with the idea of it being funny in mind, while artifact gear (or other restricted gear for that matter) was designed with something else in mind.
As flattering as it might be for the design-team that you like certain parts so much you just want to wear them with every class (and yes please, we could use a few more nice shoes/high boots for all classes) I also feel its a bit... disrespectful towards the dev-team to tell them "Because you put this one funny thing in, I demand you to give me everything now!" and not respect that they might have other plans in mind (as in: keeping an eye on job-identity and not letting tanks wear robs or have mages run around in heavy armour)

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

I'm hoping that you will draw a line, and understand that people wanting to preserve an otherwise "convincing" fantasy aesthetic actually have a point.

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What is convincing about a tank in a swimsuit?

As for your weapon point... You talk like you feel as though you've caught me in a trap, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Honestly, if FFXIV were like Rift in that classes were able to equip more than one type of weapon, I'd be all for lifting weapon restrictions, too. In that game's system, you can use any 2-handed weapon appearance (staff, 2h axe, polearm, 2h mace) on any 2h weapon generally because they use the same animations. Same thing with one-handed weapons (can use any 1h weapon), ranged (guns, bows) and offhands (shields, foci, etc). That's certainly reasonable there, for the reason I mentioned. I would treat this game more like WildStar when it comes to weapons, where you can only use other appearances of the same weapon type - and that's largely due to animations. An esper can only use psyblade skins from the holo-wardrobe, for example. Same concept here, where a ninja would only use dagger skins.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Lore is a perfectly valid reason for keeping job specific gear locked to those jobs.

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Except, again, there is no lore that suggests we would be unable to cast a glamour of any job-related gear over the appearance of something else. The lore you're pointing to simply doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

There are almost no MMOs with wardrobe systems with neither class or level restrictions. Rift is the only one I am aware of and yeah, the themes of its world are kind of a mess.

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And WildStar, and LotRO.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Also, SE shouldn't "coddle" players by removing glamour restrictions.

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I'm trying to figure out how that would be coddling, and I'll admit: I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

It does. The art-team designs those gear thats for one specific class for this one specific class and thats influencing how they're designing it in order to represent that one class best. If you lift the restriction on it thats obviously gone and we will see a lot more of generic armour because after all everyone can wear everything on any job.

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You have no reason to assert this. There would be zero reason for SE to change their policy on how they design armor appearances just because people could be free to glamour them as they choose.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Then again, why would it be ok to wear crafter and gatherer AFs?

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We're technically not wearing them. Glamour casts the illusion of wearing the gear... also, we technically can already glamour on Crafter/Gatherer gear sets (take fringeboots, for example. I use those to make "sort of" chaps), just not the class exclusive ones.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

But please answer me this nobody has answered how does what Im suggesting effect you in a dungeon , raid, or whatever kinda content you like to run on the game. Other than your oppositon there is really no reason at all to why it that would drastically change the way you proceed in combat. This idea doesnt effect anything other than people dont like the idea of it.

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This is a pretty boring rebuttal, it can be said about pretty much anything 'for the sake of more options'. Why do you feel like you should be able to wear the iconic WHM AF robe while you're on a DRK? Please think of an answer that doesn't include the seasonal event gear (already addressed that), or something along the lines of 'cause more options is good'.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

If lore was so important the devs would stick to their code of forcing u to do msq to get through content but they cut corners with ( introducing a jump potion) to make people happy. If enough people wanted this then those opposers would just have to suck it up just like the people that want it to change now are doing so.

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Not being able to wear a WHM AF robe on a DRK isn't really going to affect the amount of new players joining the game. On the other hand, having to finish the ARR, Heavensward and Stormblood MSQ to get to the expansion after that likely will. Lore is important to SE, but so is a steady stream of new players.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

This is a pretty boring rebuttal, it can be said about pretty much anything 'for the sake of more options'. Why do you feel like you should be able to

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It was boring because the only argument is the lore the lore the lore, Iv'e mention several points of horrible lore and just intervention done by the devs to bypass lore and somehow its all justifiable.

All that tells me is people pick and chose what it is they want to believe is lore appropriate. The silly suits like I keep mentioning and tanks being able to wear basically anything they want, o well that's fine its not lore but it was just put in for jokes and laughs. Oh the fact that the game doesnt even connect the job system at all oh thats ok because I like to play all my characters on one so I dont really need an explanation for that (Warrior of Light Ill take that broad statement and run with it).

Skipping 75 percent of the game which is as lore as it gets oh that doesnt matter, we need more players to come to the game ill over look that. A scholar wanting to wear summoner boots when it branches from the same exact class, hah all hell breaks lose no never thats against the lore. If everyone cared about lore as much as they claim they would demand an explanation for the job system to begin with in this very game, but nobody cares about this event tho, its basically aside form msq what the whole game is based on.

All these post have shown me is that people like to disagree with changes to their favorite type of lore not lore itself when it comes to this game. That people will overlook major plot wholes if its to their own convenience or perception.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This is my favorite game its my main game but the devs contradict their lore all throughout the game so im not gona act like its some holy code. Oh my healer cant wear an armor piece, but yet the devs provide reindeer suits and santa suits for everyone to wear, if you wana talk about lore then there is no Christmas in this realm according to the lore, but there are Christmas trees all over the zones right now, neither would there be a Halloween but we had pumpkins to.

Thats not lore thats not anything that has to do with the realm but its in the game because its a video game and its meant to be fun. All this well lore says this talk is draining the fun and exploration out of the game, because its not a golden rule it can be changed whenever the people who work on the game want it to change. So if you dont have a problem with people celebrating Christmas on another planet thats not earth, then why on earth would you have a problem with a scholar wearing summoner boots?

With the current system do you know how many other healers I see wearing the samething the dress with the stomach showing is so common, the full dress, and another peice. Its pretty bad

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The seasonal attractions are events that represent our own holidays here on Earth in Eorzea. You seem to have a firm understanding of this, but these do not contradict the game's lore. They change the names of entities and places involved to make the events their own. They are added temporarily to the game to provide an enjoyable experience different from what we grind out every day. You are simply dissatisfied with the fact that restrictions prevent you from interchanging your gear from one job to another.

Do you believe your version of fun should be everyone else's, because that is sure what it sounds like? There are enough posters in this thread for you to ascertain that not everyone will be happy with lifting the restrictions, and would actually take away a very fun element of the game for them.

Oh, and are you talking about this look?

http://i.imgur.com/CSetNv9.jpg

Because I specifically chose this look for myself because no one else is wearing these items:

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

If lore was so important the devs would stick to their code of forcing u to do msq to get through content but they cut corners with ( introducing a jump potion) to make people happy.

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As if that argument had any substance... if they really didn't care about the lore, they'd start people at Lv60 and remove any inkling of MSQ from the game. Don't even go there because players still have the option of going through MSQ. Also, what does MSQ have to do with it when there's approximately 13~ eras prior to our current one that is considered part of lore?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

If lore was so important the devs would stick to their code of forcing u to do msq to get through content but they cut corners with ( introducing a jump potion) to make people happy. If enough people wanted this then those opposers would just have to suck it up just like the people that want it to change now are doing so.

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Is seriously every single idea that does not work for some reason going to be bounced back to the whole jump potion nonsense?

I'd like to be able to see glamours be usable across their armor class, perhaps, but I would have slightly preferred that we didn't have the serious option to tank in bikinis in the first place.

I'll take the wardrobe, though. Granted, SE is probably unwilling to part from whatever retainer revenue purposely keeping a limited glamour system would encourage.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

It was boring because the only argument is the lore the lore the lore, Iv'e mention several points of horrible lore and just intervention done by the devs to bypass lore and somehow its all justifiable.

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As stated there is one argument you can't win: Creative Control and preservation of assets.

That is not even lore.

Go look at WoW's Transmog. Its a fine example of Creative Control and preservation of assets. They have a larger Dev team and have made years of revenue off the IP. Regardless of community requests. The game still has stricter rules than XIV and they refuse to spend resources and money to redo their item system for even dyeing options.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

What is convincing about a tank in a swimsuit?

As for your weapon point... You talk like you feel as though you've caught me in a trap, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Honestly, if FFXIV were like Rift in that classes were able to equip more than one type of weapon, I'd be all for lifting weapon restrictions, too. In that game's system, you can use any 2-handed weapon appearance (staff, 2h axe, polearm, 2h mace) on any 2h weapon generally because they use the same animations. Same thing with one-handed weapons (can use any 1h weapon), ranged (guns, bows) and offhands (shields, foci, etc). That's certainly reasonable there, for the reason I mentioned. I would treat this game more like WildStar when it comes to weapons, where you can only use other appearances of the same weapon type - and that's largely due to animations. An esper can only use psyblade skins from the holo-wardrobe, for example. Same concept here, where a ninja would only use dagger skins.

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I've already stated I'd rather there be MORE restrictions with glamour, and that I don't agree with pandering to people wanting to hyper-sexualize their character i.e. bikini tanks. I think certain gear (bikinis, maid outfits, reindeer, pigs, snowmen, etc) shouldn't be glamourable, if you want my opinion. Wear it in a dungeon and die, if I had MY WAY. :)

Both WHM and BLM are able to use 2h and 1h weapons, making a carpenter's saw-wielding WHM a possibility (all DoH weapons behave like swords as evidenced by change pose emote, and PLD is able to use white magic animations so the groundwork is there). Anyway, I was asking that question to determine where you stood on the issue of a carpenter's saw-wielding WHM, to then ascertain what level of ridiculous you agree with. It's clear that it's full-throttle lunacy, and I've made my point.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I definitely agree that SE should remove the glamour restrictions on the vast majority of gear in the game. But the AF sets are an important exception. Those alone should remain locked to the job they represent, and should do so precisely because they represent that job. Every job in Final Fantasy has an iconic look (based off earlier games where you didn't get any choice in what outfit your character wore except by changing jobs). In every non-MMO Final Fantasy with a job system, your job determines your outfit.

Here, because it's an MMO and people want to look different from each other, we're given far more freedom in choosing what to wear. But Final Fantasy fans (and SE themselves) don't want to lose the iconic looks of each job that have followed the series through so many games. That's what the AF sets were created for, to preserve those iconic FF job designs within this game. Turning them into just generic outfits that you could wear with any job would destroy that. Their whole purpose for existing is their link to the job they represent.

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It's funny - to a first approximation NOBODY actually wears these "iconic" outfits in this game. Oh, I am sure there is the odd person here and there, but for the most part I never see people wearing them. Clearly most players are not interested in this "iconic" look. So okay, have the AF sets as an exeception - not because they are so important, but because nobody will use them for glamour anyway.

But even so, this isn't about wearing the actual items. It is about wearing an illusion - a glamour - of the items.

To be honest, there is some gear that looks amazing and I would love to use outside of the class, the only real way I see that happening though is if they release a similar item but called it something else. Personally, that Alchemist level 50 would be my main healer set I feel if I could. However we have items in dungeons that were for say rouges that an update or two later, a similar looking item but for healers or mages.

I really don't get the FF community, it's the first time in my "MMO life" i see players not wanting more options dress their character oO
Guys, you are weird ^^"

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Except, again, there is no lore that suggests we would be unable to cast a glamour of any job-related gear over the appearance of something else. The lore you're pointing to simply doesn't exist.

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I've explained it like twice now, if you still don't understand then I don't know much else to tell you since I've already explained it quite simply. The lore is there you just refuse to acknowledge anything that goes against what you want. You don't have to accept it, but you can't ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist...like you keep trying to do.

It isn't about "illusioning" and "you aren't actually wearing the gear" it is about the fact that FF jobs have specific design styles that only those jobs wear and to have other jobs wear it, be it actually equipped or just "illusioned", is against the lore of how FF jobs are identified.

Maybe this is your first FF title? Because the lore about how certain jobs dress has been there since 1987 (Final Fantasy I) like I said already before. Not every FF title follows it closely but FFXI and FFXIV have both followed it since they first added job specific gear. Which means SE decided to follow the lore about what kind and what style of clothes certain jobs wear as their specific sets and they use that lore base for the design every time they add job specific sets of gear.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/...-WhiteMage.png

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/...-BlackMage.png

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/...05-RedMage.png

Anyway if you still don't understand why lore is a valid reason to be against removing the restrictions on the job specific sets then it is just a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by Celef

I really don't get the FF community, it's the first time in my "MMO life" i see players not wanting more options dress their character oO
Guys, you are weird ^^"

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No kidding. This community has a hard time coming together on almost anything, you can goto almost any thread and no matter the topic you'll see people butting heads with each other lol its gotten basically to the point that this game runs on complaints now lol (anyway back on topic)



I highly doubt this would happen, kinda like each job having there own look (if you call 1-3 jobs using the same set but different color there own lol) But trust me I know how you feel. I 'd rather have some kind of Glamour waredrobe implimented (as much as people are tired of hearing this, Glam is the endgame after all lol) If anything, what I rather have is the Grand company Glam restrition lifted and let us glam gear reguardless of afiliation.. You spent the time grinding for it, you earned it but now you can't glam it because you changed companies. Sure I wouldn't mind changing back if I didn't have to wait 2 Weeks. At bare minimum this is what I'd like to see.

As a Dark Knight, I want to keep my class identity. There are just somethings worth preserving. This is one of them.

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Originally Posted by Celef

I really don't get the FF community, it's the first time in my "MMO life" i see players not wanting more options dress their character oO
Guys, you are weird ^^"

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Of course we want more options. Who doesn't want that? But there are elements that make Final Fantasy XIV a Final Fantasy game. Boundaries, so to speak that should not be trespassed. I can understand why some things can be difficult to understand if you are new to the franchise. If you are under this umbrella, please understand that fans of the of franchise do want more options, but not at the cost of the integrity and principles that have created the legacy they have grown to love.