Dragoon pet

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Originally Posted by Andrien

consider what happens after the pet dies, or the duration you can have it outside is up? that total performance you talk about will change.

Keeping your pet alive will sacrifice more time and effort. The solution is to make things simple. No splitting or sacrifice of strength and power for a pet. That will equal in maximum performance by the dragoon. So, no to pets. Dragoon is better off without it

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What kind of logic is this? It's a problem if the pet dies, so remove the pet?

Easier solution: Pet's don't take damage and can't die. Problem solved!

I'd rather see a pet sideline for all classes than dedicated pet classes. I'd rather Dragoon stayed on a similar footing to the rest of the DoW.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

What kind of logic is this? It's a problem if the pet dies, so remove the pet?

Easier solution: Pet's don't take damage and can't die. Problem solved!

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Then you have an easily abuse-able system in which the Dragoon can simply kite mobs while the Wyvern kills everything for it.

I think the playerbase's decision on this matter is fairly clear: They would rather NOT have a pet attached to the job.

That doesn't mean there are no alternatives. Why we can't simply put Wyverns on the same optional 'battle mount' content as chocobos is beyond my understanding. That way it's balanced against the likes of Chocobos and Magitek armors instead of balanced against Dragoons.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

What kind of logic is this? It's a problem if the pet dies, so remove the pet?

Easier solution: Pet's don't take damage and can't die. Problem solved!

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Even better solution: no pet , no pet that get dmg, no pet that can die, no gimped dragoon because of the mini-pony-salamander

Yeah, given that we've seen chocobos fighting alongside in battle... it's not a stretch to think that maybe accompanying pets will be a Thing.

Also, Rau, well played. *removes hat* However comma meaningful pause, the vast majority of canon points to a wyvernless dragoon. =P

I dont want some tacky, ugly, stupid dragoon pet ruining the dragoon class.

Honestly If I'm given a pet again, I'm playing MRD only.
I do not want a pet holding me back, like it did before.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Then you have an easily abuse-able system in which the Dragoon can simply kite mobs while the Wyvern kills everything for it. [...]

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Look, what I was trying to say is that those problems can be solved without skipping the pet. If you don't want the Wyvern to kite, then don't let them get hate. If you don't want them to attack whithout getting hate while the dragoon is kiting, then only make them attack when the dragoon attacks. There's no shortage of solutions, and there are a thousand ways of implementing a pet.

As someone mentioned before, having a wyvern would be a good way to differentiate the job - even if it's only in appearance. The only reason why it's rejected seems to be
a) because people are lacking basic understanding of math, and
b) because all they can think of is an exact copy of the system in XI

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Honestly If I'm given a pet again, I'm playing MRD only.
I do not want a pet holding me back, like it did before.

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they are bringing out swimming and underwater ruins. when they do i hear you will be getting a pet dolphin for your MRD

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I for one don't! I made a poll in the lancer forums http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...%21-%28poll%29

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Please take part in this poll. It would be good to get results over in the lancer forum so that this question doesn't fade out of existence when some other hot topic comes up.

I want the pet but I agree that they should implement a system to where if one like me wants the wyvern they could quest it and when summoned our strentgh is divided to the wyvern and when dismissed (kinda like spirit surge was but permanant and not a 2hr) get our powers and abilities back by absorbing said wyvern. Almost like a soul divide skill with no real harm done to those who do not want the pet.

I don't care how they do it either way, but if I were to play Dragoon I'd PREFER to keep it to the earlier installations of it. Kain = Jump, FFT = Dragon Breaths.

If they introduce a pet for Dragoon it would be nice to see it as a mountable pet and possibly used in large scale battles like in Suikoden. But as stated before Dragoon in the past has just been a heavy armored damage dealer with the ability to jump for massive damage spikes. Also if there has to be a pet that fights with you during normal battles then make it evolve and not just be the same color and size from birth til the end of the game.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I want the pet but I agree that they should implement a system to where if one like me wants the wyvern they could quest it and when summoned our strentgh is divided to the wyvern and when dismissed (kinda like spirit surge was but permanant and not a 2hr) get our powers and abilities back by absorbing said wyvern. Almost like a soul divide skill with no real harm done to those who do not want the pet.

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i think this is an awful idea. either have the pet as a full time part of what makes a dragoon a dragoon. or don't. but dragoon is already going to be an amazing job. you don't need to give it even more perks.

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Originally Posted by grandm

i think this is an awful idea. either have the pet as a full time part of what makes a dragoon a dragoon. or don't. but dragoon is already going to be an amazing job. you don't need to give it even more perks.

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Was trying to please everyone, that idea was for those who do not want a pet and for us who do. Nobody loses in this case, even though with the pet and without the dragoon is just as powerful only oart of its dmg is coming from the wyvern instead of purely from the dragoon.

There are already good ways of differentiating DRG from WAR, though. Good ways with actual mechanical implications.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Was trying to please everyone, that idea was for those who do not want a pet and for us who do. Nobody loses in this case, even though with the pet and without the dragoon is just as powerful only oart of its dmg is coming from the wyvern instead of purely from the dragoon.

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but my point is if you try to please every1 and make dragoon all things to all ppl. all you will see is a million dragoons. no other DD's

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Originally Posted by grandm

but my point is if you try to please every1 and make dragoon all things to all ppl. all you will see is a million dragoons. no other DD's

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You will see other DDs. As long as the other classes don't suck and have positive qualities, and pleasing aesthetics, people will play them.

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Originally Posted by Zahak

Why do I have a feeling that most of you wyvren haters wont even touch lancer/dragoon once samurai comes out or when the DD classes are changed around in .20 :P I'd like to see what plans they have with the wyvren first before I decide.

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...Because for some of us, the classic Dragoon (read: not FFXI) is our favorite class in FF?

If they don't give them pets, I'm maining Dragoon. I don't care what else I have to work around other than that, I played MRD on my alt since launch when they pretty much got overlooked until well, now. I played LNC before Ifrit. XD I want Dragoon because it's the style of character I want to play. Even if Samurai ended up stronger, even if it turns into FFXI style elitism where it's hard to get a group as one, I will be a Dragoon...unless they have a pet. As much as I love the idea of being a Dragoon, as I said earlier in the thread I've consistently hated every pet class I've ever tried in MMOs, so I'd pass if it were the case.

I loved having a pet wyvern in XI, but I can see why people would be opposed to having it in XIV. It took years to balance Dragoon in XI. The trouble of adding and balancing for a wyvern pet might not be worth the simple aesthetic value of walking around with a dragon following you.

I would personally like to see a Dragoon using breath abilities and jumps with an affinity for fighting dragons that would make them very valuable in a dragon fight.

I will play Dragoon either way, I am sure the dev team will do well with whatever they decide to go with.

I do hope bayohne or rukkirii takes a look at this thread and talks to yoshi about it!

In an Ideal world, Dragoons would both have a pet and not have a pet. A Diversion of the Popular stance Idea that has been completly over looked by the Yoahida Dev team.

Stance 1: Dragoon + Wyvern - FFXI style, Dragoon fight along side of pet. Pet has various skills it uses in conjuction with specific Dragoon Skills and Combos - DD specializing in Combo Bonus Damage and Party Support

Stance 2: Dragoon absorbs Wyverns power - Grants access to Breath Attacks, Jump Bonuses and various other Dragon-like skills. - DD Specializing in Critical Damage (Not Some kind of timed buff, a literal toggle skill.)

I gotta say though, if I can only have one or the other. I'd rather ditch the Pet and have cool skills like Breath Attacks. Both have there advantages, pet would make the class more player skill centric and not pets would allow for Epic looking skills. I want my fights to look epic so I would have to lean toward no pet.

Just add a Wyvern that pops up as part of an animation to a WS. It can swoop in and nose dive, then gives you a high five, fist bump, or the truffle shuffle as it zooms away.

No thanks to the pet. The background story in XI for a wyvern worked well enough, but XIV's lore and Ishgardian history is already well enough established, and it doesn't look like a map re-design is going to throw that out the window.

...not to mention that etymologically, "Dragoons" were mounted infantry. Nothing more. If they're eventually working to include fighting alongside (and possibly even on) mounts in the future, then that base will be covered.

Please do not add wyvern pets.

I really want to play a traditional style DRG in a MMO. XI is the FF that created this strange DRG pet class hybrid and personally I don't care for it at all. If you feel like you NEED to play a pet class why not play something else or if it has to be a DRG with a pet why not just go play XI? Let XIV go in a different direction than XI not repeat its mistakes...

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Originally Posted by Efrye

Look, what I was trying to say is that those problems can be solved without skipping the pet. If you don't want the Wyvern to kite, then don't let them get hate. If you don't want them to attack whithout getting hate while the dragoon is kiting, then only make them attack when the dragoon attacks. There's no shortage of solutions, and there are a thousand ways of implementing a pet.

As someone mentioned before, having a wyvern would be a good way to differentiate the job - even if it's only in appearance. The only reason why it's rejected seems to be
a) because people are lacking basic understanding of math, and
b) because all they can think of is an exact copy of the system in XI

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Your solutions only creates more complications. The favorable solution is to simply not divide the Dragoon strength with the pet. Also the sentence I highlighted is irrelevant. My proof is Dragoons in past Final Fantasy games and those after XI. I want to show you some examples.

FF4 Kain Highwind
FF7: Cid Highwind
FF8: Ward Zabac. (Jump attack)
FF9: Freya Crescent
FF10: Kimahri. Also has Jump Attack
FF13: Oerba Yun Fang.
FF13 Versus: A female dragoon seen in trailers. Jumping on-board an airship.

What do they have in common? Jump, and Lances. Easy to differentiate right? None of them had a pet. sooooo no to pets.

Personally I'd like a Wyvern.

I played DRG in XI, and I look at it this way; if you offered to give me a slight boost in damage, but take away the versatility that the wyvern provided, not to mention an element of uniqueness to the job in comparison to other DD's, I would reply "hell no, good day."

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Your solutions only creates more complications. The favorable solution is to simply not divide the Dragoon strength with the pet. Also the sentence I highlighted is irrelevant. My proof is Dragoons in past Final Fantasy games and those after XI. I want to show you some examples.

FF4 Kain Highwind
FF7: Cid Highwind
FF8: Ward Zabac. (Jump attack)
FF9: Freya Crescent
FF10: Kimahri. Also has Jump Attack
FF13: Oerba Yun Fang.
FF13 Versus: A female dragoon seen in trailers. Jumping on-board an airship.

What do they have in common? Jump, and Lances. Easy to differentiate right? None of them had a pet. sooooo no to pets.

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congratulations you just described lancer.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

As someone mentioned before, having a wyvern would be a good way to differentiate the job - even if it's only in appearance. The only reason why it's rejected seems to be
a) because people are lacking basic understanding of math, and
b) because all they can think of is an exact copy of the system in XI

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Or, people would rather have a single source of their damage as their main input, as per the majority of the Job's history. Rather than have to worry about SE balancing a secondary source of damage against it.

What you're failing to realize is that it's easy to regulate the damage input from one source, to balance it well against other single-source damage jobs.

Balancing pet classes in MMOs, not even just in FFXI, is typically a nightmare, for both players and developers. They are more often or not either grossly over or underpowered. Dragoon in FFXI is the perfect case in point with it. You say 'it can be fixed' while SE has had eight years to do so for Dragoon in that game and have yet to successfully accomplish it.

Considering that the mythos of Dragoon can be matched without tying it to a logistical nightmare, and that the concept of the stand-alone dragoon is the most popular among the base. I'd say it's more favorable for Dragoon as a whole to be without the their little flying versions this time around.

Again, I've provided an alternative for those who seem to be pet-obsessed that would work within existing plans. There's is honestly no reason why to tie Dragoon's imagery and output to a mandatory pet - at all.

why would you want some cutesy, tacky, ugly dragon pet anyway? This isn't monster-tamer online or Digimon. Jeeez.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

congratulations you just described Dragoon.

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I fixed it for you. You can thank me by researching those games.

I liked the 2 Staged Idea, not only will eliminate all this rabid fan in fighting on what dragoon should/shouldn't be. it would also satisfies this games apparent split of Hardcore/Party people from the casual/soloers and give situations that may call for different tactics. stage 1: Unsummoned pet Dragoon could get HP,Crit, ATT and M-def. Stage 2 summoned pet Dragoon could get bonuses to Def,Eva,acc and M-atk.

its not impossible.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

I fixed it for you. You can thank me by researching those games.

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i dont have to research anything as i have played every game listed there more than once and have completed them all. save for versus and that i probably will too.

Dragoon is lancer such as it was in tactics the name being localized and what not.

I want them to focus on [SIZE="5"]JUMPING [/SIZE]and [SIZE="5"]BREATHING FIRE.[/SIZE]

Not having a useless pet.

Edit: and I mean the Dragoon JUMP, not the WoW jump that some people keep crying about.

I've only read the first few posts-

Personally, I don't mind having a pet as a companion. However if it causes DRG to go to FFXI levels of near-uselessness then I'd have to pass. I'd rather have a useful job with a useless pet. Than a useless job with a useless pet.

/2cents

They're giving people who stay, a chance at getting a Drake mount.

That, in my opinion, is as good as it gets for the Dragoon. :3

I don't want my stats to be gimped just 'cause Dragoon ended up as a pet class. Waste of time, waste of dev resources better spent elsewhere...

Keep the Dragoon in XIV close to the "original" design of Dragoon in the Final Fantasy series, please.

Important thing to remember: XIV heavily damaged the franchise. What's the best way to fix that? By going back to the original source material...

And I'm talking about Kain Highwind from FF4 and Freya from FF9, not McDerp The Dragoon from XI.

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Originally Posted by Travesty

Personally I'd like a Wyvern.

I played DRG in XI, and I look at it this way; if you offered to give me a slight boost in damage, but take away the versatility that the wyvern provided, not to mention an element of uniqueness to the job in comparison to other DD's, I would reply "hell no, good day."

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Did you not read that interview about Dragoon?

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Or, people would rather have a single source of their damage as their main input, as per the majority of the Job's history. Rather than have to worry about SE balancing a secondary source of damage against it.

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There doesn't have to be any additional balancing at all. You could just take the damage a normal hit would do, take away 10% and add it to the pet. Sure, that would make the wyvern a mostly visual component, but that's perfectly fine with me. And I suppose many of those who are in favor of a pet would agree. Either way there are always other elements you could add on top of that.

Again, it's just the XI thinking that puts you off!

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

congratulations you just described lancer.

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Can a simple Lancer do this? :

I say no to Dragoon Pet. Keep all the Dragoon skills to the Dragoon himself

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Originally Posted by Felis

Can a simple Lancer do this? :

I say no to Dragoon Pet. Keep all the Dragoon skills to the Dragoon himself

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This. A thousand times this, people. If you keep begging for a Wyvern after seeing this, you have no appreciation at all.