1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Hahaha so XI people are the only ones Killed them? :P sounds like somesort of complex you have there.

btw i survived Hellfire COUNTLESS time without sentinel, sentinels makes it easy.

whats next, complain about DDs requiring cure 2s? lol

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Uh yeah, if you're required to have heals from mages on your physical DD classes I think there is a problem. Just like having to cure to get/keep hate. Bad systems are bad.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

tl;dr

Sentinel is broken. Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic that is setting a dangerous precedent for future fights.

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Thank you for making Ifrit a challenging fight. When the servers and animation locks are fixed, I am sure this will be a thoroughly enjoyable fight.

Unfortunately, you need to patch sentinel. The XI purist community expects everyone to level gladiator to 36 for sentinel. This type of gameplay is pathetic, masochistic, outrageous, and classist.

I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.
One of XI's worst qualities was that you had to level X job for X fight, to have X ability. Leveling those classes took months. Yes the leveling curve is easier in XIV, but no, I still don't want anything to do with gladiator, marauder, or pugilist. I don't enjoy melee classes and I want nothing to do with them.

"But the armory system caters to leveling multiple classes." Yes, it does, and it rightfully should. Unfortunately, when you have skills like sentinel, that make such a dramatic impact to where guilds start demanding you level this class just for that fight -- you know it needs to be patched or something needs to be fixed.

1.2 is the perfect time to fix this horrible XI mechanic. I was denied several main missions in CoP because I didn't have the right jobs leveled or the right skills. XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

Furthermore, 1.2 needs to fix tanking to where you only need one 'tank class/job' leveled up to tank sufficiently. There is no fathomable excuse for the current situation to where tanks need to level gladiator, marauder, pugilist, and occasionally thaumaturge to be a sufficient tank!!!!

Having this 'requirement' to level multiple classes to be functional in dungeons or certain fights is ridiculous. The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level. It also creates a massive barrier for newer players who want to pick up the game and say "I am going to be a tank!" Instead, they get faced with the reality of "no you cant, you need to level up four other jobs before you're good to tank."

The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character. If you're going to start requiring people to level against their desires it really takes away the fun of the game and further reinforces the fact that this is nothing more than a grind-fest until you have all the classes leveled to start experiencing the game.

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

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The job system is there for that. When you get on a job it will be your Class and your job abilities only. You probably won't have enough points to use abilities from other classes. That's why Yoshi-P stated that Job will be a specialization of a class and that you would still be able to just play the class and mix match abilities like we do now if that is your play style. One won't replace the other. So for your case i think you need to wait for jobs to be released.

this is double edged... on one side, its completely good for the community b/c it makes ppl try diff classes. on other hand, yes it forces certain abilities on all 8 members bars every fight. i support both sides and personally would love the fact they want ppl to try all 7 weapon classes even if it is to mid 30s

So the OP wants something that is completely against the ways of the Armory system and wants to punish the rest of us that prefer having multiple class abilities just so he can return to a world of exclusivity with class/job abilities so he won't feel like the idiot he is for not leveling a certain class cause his group says so.

No thanks.

@OP, you know...I reaaallllllllyyyyy hate Gladiator also, I mean I really, really do. I also think it's stupid that it's needed but after playing XI I'm use to needing subs for situations, and as much as I hate glad, I cannot deny the utility the sentinel provides (it's not broken). That said, I am determined to get that awful boring class to 36. But you know what, I just got a friend to pl me yesterday and went from 12 to 28 in like 3hrs or so.

So, all I can say is, find a friend and have them pl you, much less painful and a hell of alot quicker to get it over with. Also, I'm not against needing subs, needing to play different classes is cool with me as it keeps the boredom down a bit but Gladiator is just...so awful to level. Also, from your point of view this doesn't seem like the game for you, you seem against the main mechanics of the game that make it awesome.

It is not SE fault, it is the players who demand that you have X skill for X fight, why dont you and you LS try and find a way to beat Ifrit without it.

I'm totally agreed with OP here. I think, in general, classes which are fairly unique but largely interchangeable in a group are preferable to the "you must level x job to mid-high level just to get an invite" mentality. I see a lot of blaming people for not standing up or being unique, but the fact is for group content such as this you must be palatable to the group members to get an invite. By comparison, to mention the game that shall not be named, while I did often hear a lot of ballyhoo over my Retribution Paladin being weaker or stronger than other classes at different times, I have almost never had an issue getting into groups for endgame content, because the classes are balanced enough that even most of the "elitist" players don't outright exclude classes from groups.

Compare to FFXI, where Dragoons, Puppetmasters and others had a very hard time just getting leveled because most parties didn't want them. Even in this game, I finally got my Gladiator to 50, only to be told "what a n00b, you need Marauder and Pugilist at X level to try and tank on that class." This is often from the same people who keep complaining to SE to slow down the leveling curve.

I at least enjoy MRD and PGL, but I hate playing mages with a passion, and being forced to level them to at least 20 just to have basic survivability to solo was very grating. Part of the reason I stopped playing for a while before 1.19 was because I was so bored trying to level my mages to continue on the classes I actually found fun. I'm sure it's the same for mages who are pressured to level Gladiator just for sentinel. Sure, they can choose not to, but good luck getting invites then.

Yes, the players are the ones sending the invites, but in the end it's the responsibility of developers to manage player expectations so all classes can get a fair shake. It's a big part of why multiplayer game development is different from singleplayer development. This is a hard and ongoing process since someone will always feel nerfed, but it's also necessary to keep the game balanced and interesting for players of all preferences.

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Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic that is setting a dangerous precedent for future fights.

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Last I checked all you need is the quest and an Inferno Lamp (not even required) to do Ifrit.

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I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

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This is where I began thinking this whole post was a butthurt troll attempt... just my honest opinion

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The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character

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The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level.

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They don't require you to do anything... this is pretty hypocritical. You applaud the system because you have access to all the cross-class abilities you want, then deplore it when there is a useful ability on a class you don't want to level. Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Sorry but Sentinel is NOT a requirement by any means. In a perfect World you wouldn't need it, but due to server lag and positioning issues having it is considered highly useful. Just because you got declined by two Linkshells because you failed to have this ability doesn't mean you are prevented from doing Ifrit. Start you own group, and you can have whatever requirements you want. The majority of people will say you 'need' Sentinel to join them, and if you don't want to get it then that's your own business. Sentinel is a survival tool, if you don't have it your're more of a liability.

Hell, I would applaud you if you didn't have any requirements and beat him with a group; no sentinel, bring archers, no cross-class abilities. Guess what, it's going to be hard but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

I'd love to see you choose people for a party who have no cross-class abilities, straight up Gladiator tank, Archers, Pug's, Lancer, Thm, and Con. But have another set of people willing to go who have all classes to 50, who are you going to choose, who will be more effective? The same concept applies to people with new gear and materia opposed to people wearing out-dated gear and no materia. Who are you going to pick?

Your same argument applies to gear and materia...
"It's not fair that I have to buy all new gear and materia just to complete content, I just bought this gear and I have no desire to buy new gear!" Don't like it... tough cookies.

Have any of you considered the mechanics behind the fight you're all complaining about here? Getting rid of two nails makes hellfire a joke, even without sentinel. The one nail > sentinel strat is the easy way out, not the only way it can be done.

Also, Enmity materia allows for Gladiators to tank without those subs leveled.

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Originally Posted by Kymusashi

Have any of you considered the mechanics behind the fight you're all complaining about here? Getting rid of two nails makes hellfire a joke, even without sentinel. The one nail > sentinel strat is the easy way out, not the only way it can be done.

Also, Enmity materia allows for Gladiators to tank without those subs leveled.

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Please leave these forums with your thinking and logic. :D

No seriously, good post. ^This people. Just because one group figures out one way to do it, doesn't mean it is the only way. Stop stiffling the genre with lack of imagination.

@OP I have a mage in my runs who only has CON & THM leveled and he survives Hellfire every time as long as he keeps his HP capped w/ shell & stoneskin on. Maybe you just suck if you can't survive while doing this also?

I think it is important to keep in mind that the "Jobs" system is going to change group dynamics altogther. Certain jobs, especially DoM, might not even be able to equip sentinel at all.

A PLD or WAR or MNK might infact be able to Tank effectively without raising any other class, although I imgine it will still be less challenging for the person who has all 3 raised.

I agree with the OP too. I never liked the idea of leveling subs in XI, but I did it anyway. With the various changes we will be seeing in Eorzea, there should be an endgame here that allows a pure class to play it effectively, although not necessarily as well as someone who put in the effort to level multiple jobs. I am hoping that the introduction of jobs will move us towards this.

^ agreed 100%

I agree with you about lvling stuff you don't want to OP. Something funny from XI tho depending how good a class is some people wont care how gimp you are. I trolled my whole server in xi by lvling rdm and BRD to 75 w/o any sub job(You could get rid of your Sub Job with a glitch)

People would send tells you don't have a sub yet and your 41 RDM? i would replay yup and i don't plan on unlocking one, and i would still get the invite lol..

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Originally Posted by Kymusashi

Have any of you considered the mechanics behind the fight you're all complaining about here? Getting rid of two nails makes hellfire a joke, even without sentinel. The one nail > sentinel strat is the easy way out, not the only way it can be done.

Also, Enmity materia allows for Gladiators to tank without those subs leveled.

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Excellent point.

Does killing multiple nails reduce Hellfire damage? I had read somewhere (thought it was a BG post) that said killing one nail is the same as killing all of them.

it's all about choices. you can do whatever you want. nobody is forcing you to level gladiator for sentinel. there's multiple ways to survive hellfire. you could slot a shitload of HP materia and wear a ton of fire resistance. are you gonna complain about that too? get out of here lol

I would just ignore them if I were you. I never liked the idea of leveling a class just for it's abilities. It's not fun if it feels like a requirement.

last I recalled you didn't need it. I have survived my fair share of Hellfires and recovered quickly from it. It is not difficult at all.

hey i have an idea:

lets get rid of the armory system all together and only allow a character to lvl 1 class

thats what everyone wants right? cause they want to be able to use their main class and main class only

and not use the armory to its full potential by learning cross-class skills that are not only beneficial to urself but to your whole party

its simple; time + effort = rewards

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

hey i have an idea:

lets get rid of the armory system all together and only allow a character to lvl 1 class

thats what everyone wants right? cause they want to be able to use their main class and main class only

and not use the armory to its full potential by learning cross-class skills that are not only beneficial to urself but to your whole party

its simple; time + effort = rewards

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I agree!!! Then lets dumb down the graphics so they are a bit more cartoony, implement Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder, super easy class rotations 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 3 4 style, put in talent tree's, 3 specs for each class, have every class with basically the same skills, Troll... err Trade Chat, allow for Quest based EXP leveling, Guild.. err Linkshell Reward system, make things so easy that it practically forces you to make Alt characters to stay busy, super easy show up and get your loot dungeons, and recycle the same content over and over. World of EorzeaCraft will be best, is best bro, is best.


I think me and Gabba know what games these people should be playing... wonder if you got my hint.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

1.2 is the perfect time to fix this horrible XI mechanic. I was denied several main missions in CoP because I didn't have the right jobs leveled or the right skills. XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

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I'm not on your server, but let me put this in perspective for you. Our LS started getting a bunch of applications ever since we beat Ifrit because we were one of the few that were still recruiting on this server.

How many of these applicants will fit well with our small active roster? How many just want a free ride to a win?

Oftentimes I will ask, "Are you willing to level GLA for Sentinel if you want to do Ifrit fights?" The reasoning behind this isn't that the ability is necessary to win. It's to determine whether or not this person values our time enough to make the effort to improve.

So if the guy answers, "No way, I'm a dedicated mage only," then I figure that this guy probably wouldn't be a helpful person in the LS in general.

I'd rather take the guy that only has one job to 50 with the right attitude and teach him how to dodge eruptions. Finding people who want to do a good job is a lot harder than finding people who want free wins.

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Originally Posted by kro

I'm not on your server, but let me put this in perspective for you. Our LS started getting a bunch of applications ever since we beat Ifrit because we were one of the few that were still recruiting on this server.

How many of these applicants will fit well with our small active roster? How many just want a free ride to a win?

Oftentimes I will ask, "Are you willing to level GLA for Sentinel if you want to do Ifrit fights?" The reasoning behind this isn't that the ability is necessary to win. It's to determine whether or not this person values our time enough to make the effort to improve.

So if the guy answers, "No way, I'm a dedicated mage only," then I figure that this guy probably wouldn't be a helpful person in the LS in general.

I'd rather take the guy that only has one job to 50 with the right attitude and teach him how to dodge eruptions. Finding people who want to do a good job is a lot harder than finding people who want free wins.

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**Clap clap clap**

^_^ this is how it works sometimes... effort is all it takes.

You can survive hell fire without sentinel. ^^ It's just difficult. Overcome! (Also, I play as a dedicated mage even though I have all classes leveled. I don't always get sentinel up, but somehow I survive. =D )

The game is balanced for groups with single classes only. So anyone that tells you, having abilities from other classes is required to win only demonstrates that what though they might have more experience, they obviously fall short in skill.

Sounding like I need to start working on gld now >< ugh lol

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Originally Posted by Tibian

tl;dr

Sentinel is broken. Requiring gladiator leveled to 36 for Ifrit is a broken mechanic that is setting a dangerous precedent for future fights.

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Thank you for making Ifrit a challenging fight. When the servers and animation locks are fixed, I am sure this will be a thoroughly enjoyable fight.

Unfortunately, you need to patch sentinel. The XI purist community expects everyone to level gladiator to 36 for sentinel. This type of gameplay is pathetic, masochistic, outrageous, and classist.

I have no desire to play gladiator, nor marauder, nor pugilist. I am a fully dedicated mage.
One of XI's worst qualities was that you had to level X job for X fight, to have X ability. Leveling those classes took months. Yes the leveling curve is easier in XIV, but no, I still don't want anything to do with gladiator, marauder, or pugilist. I don't enjoy melee classes and I want nothing to do with them.

"But the armory system caters to leveling multiple classes." Yes, it does, and it rightfully should. Unfortunately, when you have skills like sentinel, that make such a dramatic impact to where guilds start demanding you level this class just for that fight -- you know it needs to be patched or something needs to be fixed.

1.2 is the perfect time to fix this horrible XI mechanic. I was denied several main missions in CoP because I didn't have the right jobs leveled or the right skills. XIV needs to move away from this terrible terrible terrible terrible design for future content.

I have been turned down by two linkshells who want me to have sentinel for Ifrit.

Furthermore, 1.2 needs to fix tanking to where you only need one 'tank class/job' leveled up to tank sufficiently. There is no fathomable excuse for the current situation to where tanks need to level gladiator, marauder, pugilist, and occasionally thaumaturge to be a sufficient tank!!!!

Having this 'requirement' to level multiple classes to be functional in dungeons or certain fights is ridiculous. The armory system is a perfect system to cater towards diversity and 'alternate character' play, but don't abuse it by requiring people to level. It also creates a massive barrier for newer players who want to pick up the game and say "I am going to be a tank!" Instead, they get faced with the reality of "no you cant, you need to level up four other jobs before you're good to tank."

The armory system is one of XIV's best and most unique qualities. I means I can take the spells I enjoy the most from the classes that I want to play, and have a personalized character. If you're going to start requiring people to level against their desires it really takes away the fun of the game and further reinforces the fact that this is nothing more than a grind-fest until you have all the classes leveled to start experiencing the game.

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

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Sounds like you're just lazy....

Every class has to level multiple other classes to become efficient -- that's kind of the whole point of the way the class system works...

Additionally, that brings to light a greatly under appreciated element of the class system -- to be a 100% efficient player, you have to level up pretty much every class because all of them have something to contribute to your main one -- which means that the whole "leveling goes too fast, we shouldn't be able to hit level cap in a week" means that you actually need to invest a week into each class just to do one at 100% efficiency -- that's what, 6-7 weeks to get your character to elitist excellence?

Sounds solid to me -- but I guess people don't think about stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

The game is balanced for groups with single classes only. So anyone that tells you, having abilities from other classes is required to win only demonstrates that what though they might have more experience, they obviously fall short in skill.

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The game was designed around using abilities from all classes...

The most capable party configuration is going to be the one where each member, while specialized, is capable of drawing from all skills and abilities to effectively do their job.

The only thing required for "balance" is having a party that can answer every potential threat -- and the party most capable of that is the one where everyone has all of the most relevant and useful abilities from all classes. You don't have to be as concerned about the Marauder if, in a worst-case scenario situation, he can use an ability to recover just enough HP to survive for a bit longer. Having access to all of the most useful abilities creates a much more well-rounded class.

But that's only necessary if you're talking about playing at really high levels -- which not everyone is going to be doing. Not everyone has to/wants to be "elite" -- that's the whole reason its called "elite" because its the top tier of efficiency and strategy. As is, the system allows for success on all ranges from elitist to beginner, BUT OF COURSE the most effective strategy is the elitist one.... that's just the nature of things.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

I agree!!! Then lets dumb down the graphics so they are a bit more cartoony, implement Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder, super easy class rotations 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 3 4 style, put in talent tree's, 3 specs for each class, have every class with basically the same skills, Troll... err Trade Chat, allow for Quest based EXP leveling, Guild.. err Linkshell Reward system, make things so easy that it practically forces you to make Alt characters to stay busy, super easy show up and get your loot dungeons, and recycle the same content over and over. World of EorzeaCraft will be best, is best bro, is best.


I think me and Gabba know what games these people should be playing... wonder if you got my hint.

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No. You're just being a simple WoW hater. Why did you bring WoW into this? It had nothing to with it. A simple criticism towards Armoury system and you go all WoW hatemode b. I hope you weren't serious.

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People praise open ended skill systems because "ohmegosh, it allows so much customization!" Bullcrap. People seem to have this delusion that open ended skill systems lead to diversity when in fact it's the opposite. It leads to more cookie cutter builds. Why take X when every class can have Y, which is ten times better?

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It's not bullcrap. All you need to do is restrict some class abilities to that class, then each class retains its identity. It DOES allow more customizaiton. Consider that you have to give up some other action to take Sentinel. It's a great skill, but perhaps you can be more effective at the cost of being more vulnerable by using some other skill? It's something you have to weigh as you choose your actions.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

P.S. it's 1.20 (one point twenty), not 1.2. It's the 20th revision of version 1. Sorry, pet peeve.

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Sorry 1.2=1.20 take a math class please ^.^

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Originally Posted by kro

I'm not on your server, but let me put this in perspective for you. Our LS started getting a bunch of applications ever since we beat Ifrit because we were one of the few that were still recruiting on this server.

How many of these applicants will fit well with our small active roster? How many just want a free ride to a win?

Oftentimes I will ask, "Are you willing to level GLA for Sentinel if you want to do Ifrit fights?" The reasoning behind this isn't that the ability is necessary to win. It's to determine whether or not this person values our time enough to make the effort to improve.

So if the guy answers, "No way, I'm a dedicated mage only," then I figure that this guy probably wouldn't be a helpful person in the LS in general.

I'd rather take the guy that only has one job to 50 with the right attitude and teach him how to dodge eruptions. Finding people who want to do a good job is a lot harder than finding people who want free wins.

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I agree wholeheartedly. It completely becomes a competitive market (as seen in real life in the job market). The more preexisting skills and presets you have the better chance you will land the role. As(if) the game becomes more and more populated there will be a lot more competition getting into end game linkshells. Population rises, so do requirement standards. Its just a part of supply and demand.

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Originally Posted by Petori

No. You're just being a simple WoW hater. Why did you bring WoW into this? It had nothing to with it. A simple criticism towards Armoury system and you go all WoW hatemode b. I hope you weren't serious.

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I played WoW for a long time, as a lot of people have. I was being sarcastic, yes... but there is some truth behind it. Wow was a good game for a while, keyword was. I give Blizzard credit for what they have done.

I might have misunderstood the person above me who made a sarcastic comment about being locked into a single class, then expanded upon this idea to turn it into WoW, which quite frankly is a really ezmode game. People in all threads, not this one, want the game to be easier and easier... so my comment was pointing them towards WoW if they want something easy but specifically to the point of this thread; not leveling other classes for abilities.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The 'FFXI purist community"? Sentinel is really helpful to have in this fight, it has nothing to do with a "purist community" lol. MMORPG communities in general always thrive for efficiency and suffice to say, reducing damage taken is all about being efficient.

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The intention of the Armoury system has likely been to foster diversity by allowing characters to mix-and-match their skills as they see fit, but that diversity is lost once you start stacking classes and/or abilities in order to clear content. If/when such stacking occurs, then there needs to be balance adjustments made to either the content or the classes/abilities to even things out again; otherwise, you end up with fights where every fifth person is a lancer, or a marauder, or whatever, and they all have matching armor and skillsets. This game doesn't need it's own version of shaman-stacking.

To OP:

It's not SE's fault that you couldn't get into those two linkshells. It's your fault for not getting Sentinel as that seemed to be those particular linkshells' minimum requirements. Perhaps those linkshells are just not for you. Try forming your own linkshell/group and start formulating different strategies for the Ifrit fight that don't require everyone to have Sentinel.

Also, SE is not barring you from the content. Not even indirectly. You have two Ifrit Battles. You can still experience an Ifrit fight at level 25 as well. SE does not need to account for what the playerbase (in this instance two linkshells) require for their minimum recruitment policies. They also don't need to guarantee you a win, so you can still get eight people together and experience the harder Ifrit battle if you so wish.

Nerfing Sentinel is not going to change things. Making Sentinel class specific is not going to change things. If they do that, those linkshells will just require you to level Lancer for Diversion or Archer for Chameleon and Decoy or both. Find/Form a different linkshell that is more inline with your leveling philosophy. Either that or buck up and level GLA for Sentinel but I strongly suggest you pioneer a new method as that is more praiseworthy.

Balls in your court.

P.S. We'll be getting Jobs in 1.21 making this entire thread moot.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

The intention of the Armoury system has likely been to foster diversity by allowing characters to mix-and-match their skills as they see fit, but that diversity is lost once you start stacking classes and/or abilities in order to clear content. If/when such stacking occurs, then there needs to be balance adjustments made to either the content or the classes/abilities to even things out again; otherwise, you end up with fights where every fifth person is a lancer, or a marauder, or whatever, and they all have matching armor and skillsets. This game doesn't need it's own version of shaman-stacking.

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I hear you on that, but when has there ever been a time in an MMO where one class/job/whatever wasn't better than another. The hard part of MMO's is balancing, and I've personally never seen a game that is 100% balanced.

The staticians will figure out who does the best damage, or contributes the most to a fight and create strategies that use them to their full potential.

Archer / Mage stacking for Darkhold, Lancer Mrd stacking for Ifrit, it's all a balancing game. Roll the dice and hope SE tries to make it as even as possible.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Sorry 1.2=1.20 take a math class please ^.^

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^^this...i was actually gonna comment on that fact last night but after reading that post i figured id be better off just sleeping...lol

1.20 comes with adjustments to classes and abilitys 1.21 we get jobs to pick a specific role to excel at, everything OP is complaining about is temporary, and if classes will be catered to solo content then im all for having to level different classes to complete the more difficult solo content that may be coming.

Maybe they need to fix how the spikes affect Ifrit's 2hr, if you take 2 spikes down is the same dmg you will get by breaking only one, so if they change that to be decreasing the damage of hell fire then you wouldnt need sentinel at all, and would have to make a strategy to take down as much spikes as you can to get less damage, right now 1 lancer can take down 1 spike if you reserve your tp for that.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

I played WoW for a long time, as a lot of people have. I was being sarcastic, yes... but there is some truth behind it. Wow was a good game for a while, keyword was. I give Blizzard credit for what they have done.

I might have misunderstood the person above me who made a sarcastic comment about being locked into a single class, then expanded upon this idea to turn it into WoW, which quite frankly is a really ezmode game. People in all threads, not this one, want the game to be easier and easier... so my comment was pointing them towards WoW if they want something easy but specifically to the point of this thread; not leveling other classes for abilities.

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Personally I don't think it's about making this game easier. Grinding isn't hard, it just takes time. And for some people leveling a class only for couple abilities is a timesink that is not worth it.

Anyways it's still a personal matter. If you (directed @OP) being denied because of a skill means to you so much, I would believe that should be enough motivation to level to get that skill.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

I hear you on that, but when has there ever been a time in an MMO where one class/job/whatever wasn't better than another. The hard part of MMO's is balancing, and I've personally never seen a game that is 100% balanced.

The staticians will figure out who does the best damage, or contributes the most to a fight and create strategies that use them to their full potential.

Archer / Mage stacking for Darkhold, Lancer Mrd stacking for Ifrit, it's all a balancing game. Roll the dice and hope SE tries to make it as even as possible.

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It's unlikely that you'll ever get perfect balance between classes, but that doesn't mean that balance adjustments shouldn't be made regardless. You can still get pretty damned close to achieving equilibrium through observation of player behaviour patterns and adjusting classes/abilities accordingly. To do otherwise runs counter to the idea of player diversity as a whole, and actively punishes players for their choices on what skills to use and what classes to level. The success of a given group should neither hinge on use of a specific ability, nor should having that ability increase the odds of success by a significant margin, yet the current wisdom seems to indicate that Sentinel has the latter effect. It also suggests that Lancers and Marauders are better suited to the fight than other DPS, and that also needs to be addressed.