Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Um...what

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/e4ff8bcd94f/

Oh look, a Fending accessory with Accuracy and Skill Speed.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/9eadbf2fa22/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/31220e14e12/

Wait, now Acc and Crit!

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/184f6f5ea73/
And finally, Acc/det


And that's just the i210. There were Crit/Det VIT accessories in previous tiers

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Learn to read please. I said they have it, just not as much as Slaying and some fending accesories have Parry which replace some of the damage stats, thus, in the case scenario VIT and STR become equals, most tanks will still preffer slaying over fending and at best, they will mix them up.

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Originally Posted by Felis

more HP = more to heal
With more max. HP a Cure heal less HP%

You can test it out how many Cure you need to heal up a Warrior at 50% HP and a Paladin at 50% HP.

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...You mean about the same thanks to the heal bonus Warriors get while in Defiance?

Say goodbye to tank stance because I will never use it again.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Fending won`t win in that situtation. Because slaying gear also grants skill speed, determination and critical, where Fending gives much lower skill speed and near no determination which is usually the stat replaced by parry. So if STR and VIT will both weight the same, at best, you will find tanks running a mix of slaying/fending accesories to max damage stats, like using just the fending acc without parry + slaying.

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1 point of base stat give muche more vs a 1 point of secndary stat, and you talking like fending don have any det crit and skill speed, whe have 2 set to play and meaby because fending can have parry whe have a little less det or crit or something, i make 2 sets in ariyala

str DRK http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SBGL
vit DRK http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SJ0Q

as you can see whe have 75 point more or less of diference (i dont change the extra points so are in both in vit) and a not big dierence betwen secondaries stats, so 75 points of vit in this actual pacth, more high in 3.2 are mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Except with STR and VIT there was choice. Tank would slot as much STR as they could, but would swap in VIT to survive tank busters etc while in progression. Main tank in my raid consistently was swapping str/vit accessories. He wouldn't do this if one was better 100% of the time.

You could say choice is an illusion in all aspects of life, but I doubt you would promote the idea of removing all choice in every day behaviour.

Anyway, Yoshi clearly is against choice, and that's too bad because it makes this game dreadfully stale.

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Except swapping to VIT wasn't optimal. You could survive any tank buster with proper cooldown usage in all slayer gear, which was the crux of the issue. You simply didn't need fending gear for any endgame content. This also led to an increasing rate of newer tanks attempting to level in all STR when they weren't ready to manage the necessary cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by shao32

1 point of base stat give muche more vs a 1 point of secndary stat, and you talking like fending don have any det crit and skill speed, whe have 2 set to play and meaby because fending can have parry whe have a little less det or crit or something, i make 2 sets in ariyala

str DRK http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SBGL
vit DRK http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SJ0Q

as you can see whe have 75 point more or less of diference (i dont change the extra points so are in both in vit) and a not big dierence betwen secondaries stats, so 75 points of vit in this actual pacth, more high in 3.2 are mandatory.

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Slaying still has the upper hand if VIT and STR are equals. Unless parry will also increase DPS now, magically.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Slaying still has the upper hand if VIT and STR are equals. Unless parry will also increase DPS now, magically.

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There are fending acc with no parry.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You could survive any tank buster with proper cooldown usage in all slayer gear, which was the crux of the issue. You simply didn't need fending gear for any endgame content.

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We may be talking about different stages of progression.

When you go to a grocery store, and you see two block of cheese and one of those is $1 per 100 grams and the other 86 cents per 100 grams, there is a clear optimal choice. That said, would you want to advocate that the grocery store remove the more expensive item, because it's just an illusion of choice? No, people like having choices, and sometimes choices are made based on more than 1 thing.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There are fending acc with no parry.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Fending won`t win in that situtation. Because slaying gear also grants skill speed, determination and critical, where Fending gives much lower skill speed and near no determination which is usually the stat replaced by parry. So if STR and VIT will both weight the same, at best, you will find tanks running a mix of slaying/fending accesories to max damage stats, like using just the fending acc without parry + slaying.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Learn to read please. I said they have it, just not as much as Slaying and some fending accesories have Parry which replace some of the damage stats, thus, in the case scenario VIT and STR become equals, most tanks will still preffer slaying over fending and at best, they will mix them up.

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Im i speaking chinese or something?

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Im i speaking chinese or something?

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Because you are wrong they have the same amount of secondary stats as slaying.

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Originally Posted by Felis

more HP = more to heal
With more max. HP a Cure heal less HP%

You can test it out how many Cure you need to heal up a Warrior at 50% HP and a Paladin at 50% HP.

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This is wrong in so many ways... First of all WAR gets a healing bonus as HorseBoots already pointed out. Second of all, HP has no effect on incoming damage rate so the amount of healing needed will be the same in 3.2. If a tank takes 5k damage, you need to heal that 5k damage no matter what their maximum health is. The only difference is that high HP allows more flexibility in healing because you have more choice when to heal the 5k.

In the example of 50% health, yes you'd need more healing to cap the tank if they don't have VIT in their accessories. But you are ignoring the fact that it took longer for him to drop to 50% which would have given you time to dps. The intervals are longer but the total healing requirement is the same. There should no longer be times when you put on CS and the tank needs healing before you can turn it back on, which is what I believe ReddAxel was referring to with "no excuse not to dps".

From my understanding, STR won't give a bonus and VIT will right? If that is the case, a Slaying Accessory will provide much less benefit, even with the CRIT/DET etc, as the main stat is significantly more important.

If STR and VIT are made equal, then nvm I guess, but that'd be silly and encourage pentamelds even moreso than now.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

From my understanding, STR won't give a bonus and VIT will right? If that is the case, a Slaying Accessory will provide much less benefit, even with the CRIT/DET etc, as the main stat is significantly more important.

If STR and VIT are made equal, then nvm I guess, but that'd be silly and encourage pentamelds even moreso than now.

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Can't overmeld main stat anymore.

We don't know the % of what vit and str contribute to attack in 3.2. We do know that both will effect attack now but don't know by how much.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Can't overmeld main stat anymore.

We don't know the % of what vit and str contribute to attack in 3.2. We do know that both will effect attack now but don't know by how much.

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Right I forgot about that part. Either way, what about the other part, are they made equal or is it all based on VIT now? From my understand it's all VIT.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Right I forgot about that part. Either way, what about the other part, are they made equal or is it all based on VIT now? From my understand it's all VIT.

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It's not all vit. Its some % vit some % str, the % str effects attack is being lowered to compensate for vit having a attack contribution.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Can't overmeld main stat anymore.

We don't know the % of what vit and str contribute to attack in 3.2. We do know that both will effect attack now but don't know by how much.

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you'll still be able to meld a single materia on raid accessories, so there is that.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Because you are wrong they have the same amount of secondary stats as slaying.

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And who cares about that?

http://xivdb.com/item/11566/Gordian-Earrings-of-Fending
http://xivdb.com/item/11567/Gordian-Earrings-of-Slaying

Fending has parry where slaying has critical.

Slaying > Fending if the stat weight of STR and VIT will be the same.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And who cares about that?

http://xivdb.com/item/11566/Gordian-Earrings-of-Fending
http://xivdb.com/item/11567/Gordian-Earrings-of-Slaying

Fending has parry where slaying has critical.

Slaying > Fending if the stat weight of STR and VIT will be the same.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...312.1424030978

There is more then 1, 210 accessory of each type in the game, there you go an earring with no parry. There exists fending accessories with no parry for every slot. It has never been good for any job to say well I am going to use all the raid accessories, when the tome ones can have better stats.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...312.1424030978

There is more then 1, 210 accessory of each type in the game, there you go an earring with no parry. There exists fending accessories with no parry for every slot. It has never been good for any job to say well I am going to use all the raid accessories, when the tome ones can have better stats.

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No parry but accuracy and skill speed which is the same as to say parry and skill speed since accuracy doesn`t increase DPS. Slaying earring still beating those. Maybe a weird mistfall fending, but it would do about the same as an Slaying does. It`s not about the name, and for the 7th time, i know not all fending gear has parry, kthnx.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

No parry but accuracy and skill speed which is the same as to say parry and skill speed since accuracy doesn`t increase DPS. Slaying earring still beating those. Maybe a weird mistfall fending, but it would do about the same as an Slaying does. It`s not about the name, and for the 7th time, i know not all fending gear has parry, kthnx.

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You here are seriously ticking me off. You have no understanding of stats and gear builds, and you think accuracy is worthless!

Your achievements are hidden, and you're not on a lv60, but I'm sure I'm safe to say you don't do any real raiding. You'd know the value of accuracy then, and why you can't discount it when comparing gear (in this case, especially if you're looking at a WAR build and you don't have A4S on farm...the loss of acc on the body needs to be made up somewhere else)

In no way do these changes mean that healers are going to be happier, nor will tanks necessarily be doing more damage. New content is going to be designed with big tankbusters hitting full VIT, we know new healer gear is going to have even more piety on it, so it's probably still within design intentions to push healers even harder. And the change to VIT and STR in the tank damage calculation might not be the only changes. I'm predicting tanks will be doing lower dps day one of patch with full VIT accessories than they're doing with full STR right now. Although putting GV STR melds in the available slots on new top tier gear will probably even it out and become the new meta

I'd like an apology from everyone who bashed me and telling me to "learn how to adapt", "git gud", and "VIT tanking suck" when they see that I have 20k+ HP in content.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'd like an apology from everyone who bashed me and telling me to "learn how to adapt", "git gud", and "VIT tanking suck" when they see that I have 20k+ HP in content.

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why? was does anything they said have to do with using VIT after they change what the stat actually does?

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Originally Posted by Nep_Nep

This will make runs alot quicker with Tanks hitting alot harder. Hopefully anyway. Guess I'll buy the rest of those vit accessories now. xD

Someone on reddit mentioned Tanks might be OP in PVP now. High HP pool and High damage. Wonder if that will happen.

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healer in frontlines was saying that last night.. he/she is gonna enjoy squishy tanks for nows cause dreading tanks in next patch :P

I'm predicting we will see tanks with either:

a) 3 fending and 2 slaying with full str melds in the first slot

....or

b) 2 fending and 3 slaying with full vit melds in the first slot

This is assuming the ratio and stats weights are roughly 50/50. So technically we are still doing the same damage as pre 3.2 but now with more vit.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I'm predicting we will see tanks with either:

a) 3 fending and 2 slaying with full str melds in the first slot

....or

b) 2 fending and 3 slaying with full vit melds in the first slot

This is assuming the ratio and stats weights are roughly 50/50. So technically we are still doing the same damage as pre 3.2 but now with more vit.

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? If weights are 50/50 why wouldn't tanks just use all Vit? If anything, I'm expecting the weights to be something like 80/20 so the intended (and only viable) patch will be 100% Vit. Unless you forgot, materia V doesn't add 60 of a stat (likely what we will see on accessories in 3.2).

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

? If weights are 50/50 why wouldn't tanks just use all Vit? If anything, I'm expecting the weights to be something like 80/20 so the intended (and only viable) patch will be 100% Vit. Unless you forgot, materia V doesn't add 60 of a stat (likely what we will see on accessories in 3.2).

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Because some fending items have parry and accuracy which don`t increase DPS, so the chances are, tanks will run Fending without useless stats + Slaying for accesories.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'd like an apology from everyone who bashed me and telling me to "learn how to adapt", "git gud", and "VIT tanking suck" when they see that I have 20k+ HP in content.

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Strength acc were and are the best for tanks until 3.2 drops. I don't know why you expect an apology lol.

20k+ Hp atm is completely unneeded as nothing requires that much HP hence why strength tanking was a thing.

This comment makes you just come across as bitter.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Because some fending items have parry and accuracy which don`t increase DPS, so the chances are, tanks will run Fending without useless stats + Slaying for accesories.

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Secondaries are not worth a primary though. So you would be better off stacking VIT for more damage.

Rip me after living dead gets popped.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'd like an apology from everyone who bashed me and telling me to "learn how to adapt", "git gud", and "VIT tanking suck" when they see that I have 20k+ HP in content.

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You want a apology because you were criticized for your gear choice, which is not ideal for the current (soon to be past) meta? I don't understand your mental gymnastics here. It looks like a victim complex.

The only reason I have more Melee accessories is mostly for bringing Accuracy close or over 700. (I don't know what it needs to be for content). I wont have to balance Pld and Drk having base Hp around 17.5k before food anymore at least.

My theory on Tank adjustment:

Unless attack power is equal to Vitality as it is currently with Strength after 3.2. Strength might be lowered to Determination levels, giving two (Det/Str) damage modifiers for tanks and three for any DOT. Otherwise, if vitality falls short PC users would need to figure out a proper ratio for getting the most benefit between the two and readjust secondary stat influence.

I'm leaning toward the prior since we had to do the same balancing prior to 3.0 with Strength= Block/Parry potency and Dexterity= Block/Parry rate. Keeping it simple like 1:1 vitality to attack could also leave strength as having more to do with Critical damage potency than skill and auto attacks. Either way some folks will be doing some hard number crunching as soon as the update for 3.2 is over to see exactly how everything is working.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I'd like an apology from everyone who bashed me and telling me to "learn how to adapt", "git gud", and "VIT tanking suck" when they see that I have 20k+ HP in content.

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I'm sorry.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Because some fending items have parry and accuracy which don`t increase DPS, so the chances are, tanks will run Fending without useless stats + Slaying for accesories.

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Will accuracy increase dps? No. However, if you entirely ignore accuracy and don't arrive at a decent accuracy stat, you're going to start missing attacks which in turn affects damage. So, in a sense accuracy ensures you can do damage.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Nobody's ever debated that Accuracy is useful to a point.

Parry is the mother of all bad stats, though. x_x

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I was replying to the previous poster who made it sound as if accuracy was a bad thing (intended or not).

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Originally Posted by Kadrothan

If you entirely ignore accuracy and don't arrive at a decent accuracy stat, you're going to start missing attacks which in turn affects damage. So, in a sense accuracy ensures you can do damage.

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Nobody's ever debated that Accuracy is useful to a point.

Parry is the mother of all bad stats, though. x_x

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Originally Posted by Kadrothan

Will accuracy increase dps? No. However, if you entirely ignore accuracy and don't arrive at a decent accuracy stat, you're going to start missing attacks which in turn affects damage. So, in a sense accuracy ensures you can do damage.

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Of course i assume we all talking based on some granted things, like, having the accuracy capped first.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

The only reason I have more Melee accessories is mostly for bringing Accuracy close or over 700. (I don't know what it needs to be for content). I wont have to balance Pld and Drk having base Hp around 17.5k before food anymore at least.

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Cap for A4S is just about 650 (my A4S gear with food gives me around 655 acc), so you're a little high. And that's for the last Savage floor; its a LOT less for dungeons (if there's even an acc cap at all), and I can't remember what A1S is at all (620?), nor the Primals :\

I'm expecting A6S to be ~660, and A8S to be between 680 and 700.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Nobody's ever debated that Accuracy is useful to a point.

Parry is the mother of all bad stats, though. x_x

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I don't understand what the use of parry for WAR. It doesn't do skill like PLD's Shield Swipe. Also WAR already have Raw Intuition for 100% parry :/

I'm sure people will find some hole in whatever they implement because Yoshida & crew won't have extensively tested their adjustments.

There will be some other unforeseen issue with itemization or balance - and we'll be back on the forum making posts asking them to fix it all again.

Then they'll tell us we haven't played to the full potential or that we don't understand the intention despite being the ones working within their parameters.

...and then a patch or two later Yoshida will admit there is a problem and try to fix it again and the cycle will repeat~!

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Originally Posted by Doudousteve

Damage from bosses and enemies will probably scale up to balance the change.

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Why should they lol. Why would they scale now that tanks will wear their jobs correct gear.