Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

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Originally Posted by Kafei

That's... not very magicy friendshippy of you. :\

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There are limits even to friendships.
Not everyone is able to love the... not so bright and not so great.

There's so many issues with low DPS outputting players because:
1) FFXIV draws new MMO players
2) There's no challenging content outside of EX/Savage

And then you have people who try to help players improve by giving them advice and tips and advising them not to do what they're doing...only to get lashed out at by the underperforming player.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

You know what, I'm done. You guys want to twist my words, use dps logs against me and call me a troll, whatever, i'm done, to the people who agreed with me. thank you, we all see those type of people in like the void ark and crystal tower and so on, to the people that kept attacking me or tried to be passive aggressive towards me

I hate all.

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Kinda like that.

I had a SMN who would only apply DoTs if they had aetherflow stacks for Tri-Disaster. Then they would spam ruin 3 till almost out of MP, then spam ruin. Oh, and they would use Deathflare immediately, instead of using ruin 3 while in dreadwyrm trance until it was almost over.

But according to this board, the smn probably wasn't bad.

I don't make it into a big deal..

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

You know what, I'm done. You guys want to twist my words, use dps logs against me and call me a troll, whatever, i'm done, to the people who agreed with me. thank you, we all see those type of people in like the void ark and crystal tower and so on, to the people that kept attacking me or tried to be passive aggressive towards me

I hate all.

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Your issue this entire thread is your outbursts from the desire to defend yourself. It clearly showed you had no desire to actually have an open discussion on the topic that you posted in the discussion forum. You simply wanted to rant and have everyone agree with you.

The way people react to advice in this game it wouldn't surprise me if Yoshi P himself said they were bad and not doing their rotation right that they'd call him a liar and to stfu.

It's got to the stage were I just don't attempt to help people unless they ask for it. I just mention it to friends or whatever, have a laugh about it and continue on the dungeon.

Why bother trying to even help when 99% of the time you're told either:

1) To shut up and worry about yourself ( albeit in more colourful terms than that)
2) It's their subscription and they'll play how they want.
3) You're a liar and that they are clearly good because...(they then list faceroll content they've cleared.)

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I had a SMN who would only apply DoTs if they had aetherflow stacks for Tri-Disaster. Then they would spam ruin 3 till almost out of MP, then spam ruin. Oh, and they would use Deathflare immediately, instead of using ruin 3 while in dreadwyrm trance until it was almost over.

But according to this board, the smn probably wasn't bad.

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Stop being hyperbolic and you'll see that people most definitely agree that some people are just bad. Now we can't always tell if they are bad due to sheer laziness, not giving a shit, or truly just don't know better, but we are aware they exist.

The game not telling you how to play your job, or how well you're doing, is a pretty bad excuse for some players... Sure, I can understand not everyone will get maximum DPS because of that, but at least decent DPS shouldn't be too much to ask for.

Like everyone else, I was new to the game once too, and I did pretty bad in the beginning too, but at least I listened to people who tried to help, and by the time I got more serious in the game, I was doing pretty good DPS. It isn't really rocket science.

You can literally just use a couple of skills, and still do more DPS than most people in dungeons... simply by actually using skills.

Also, while FFXIV doesn't teach you very much of how to play your job, why is it so hard for players to just look for a guide? Back when I was new, and I didn't know what rotation I should use, I simply searched for it on internet, and found out... I felt like I was holding other players back, by not knowing how to play correctly. That feeling should occur for all players. If you want to figure it out by yourself, you better be good at it, otherwise just follow the ones that do the math and put time into it.

Maybe some of the cases in dungeons are just players being lazy... but so what? doesn't change the fact that they're doing bad, and while dungeons doesn't require much DPS at all, you should still put a decent amount of effort into it, since you're not alone in there, you have 3 other players there who most likely wants to get through it in a timely fashion.

I like Bacon it gives me +200 vit until I have to BO then I lose it :(.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

You can literally just use a couple of skills, and still do more DPS than most people in dungeons... simply by actually using skills.
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Once had a SMN in my FC who was pulling 500 DPS, so I figured I'd see if I could help them. Before doing that, I tested myself.

I wielded a ilvl 90 book, but kept the rest of my 180 gear on. I then parsed on a dummy with just applying dots. I didn't use Ruin/Fester etc. Between my pet and I, we did 450 DPS. It was at that time I realized I wouldn't be able to help my buddy.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Once had a SMN in my FC who was pulling 500 DPS, so I figured I'd see if I could help them. Before doing that, I tested myself.

I wielded a ilvl 90 book, but kept the rest of my 180 gear on. I then parsed on a dummy with just applying dots. I didn't use Ruin/Fester etc. Between my pet and I, we did 450 DPS. It was at that time I realized I wouldn't be able to help my buddy.

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Yeah, exactly...

Some time back I tried doing some test like that too, but with my MNK and I kept my gear the same. I only used Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch or something like that... So no DK or Twin snakes, and no oGCD skills at all. I don't remember what I got in DPS, and it was some time back, so would be higher now, but I know it was actually much higher than I thought it would be, and it really painted a picture of how little some players actually do.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/chara...3/4/#boss=1029

Who is lying again?

Also your NIN DPS isn't all that great either.
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/serve...bal&spec=Ninja

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Now there's web that show our DPS? I'm feeling insecure now ; ; (Although I play healer and tank... Sometimes SMN)

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Originally Posted by Eul

Now there's web that show our DPS? I'm feeling insecure now ; ; (Although I play healer and tank... Sometimes SMN)

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Only if someone has uploaded it

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Originally Posted by Eul

Now there's web that show our DPS? I'm feeling insecure now ; ; (Although I play healer and tank... Sometimes SMN)

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Either you or someone that's been in a party with you for that content has to upload the logs. I felt kinda the same way as you at first because I was a little afraid of how my numbers would compare up (and was actually pleasantly surprised in that regard) but we uploaded a few logs anyway just to see what it was all about. I talked with a few people in my raid static and other friends that have been using it, and I think it's a really amazing tool after seeing more of you can do with it. You can look through parses for some of the game's top players, go through them second by second, and see what skills they're using, the order they're using them in, and when they're being used. This can be really game-changing, especially when it comes to openers/burst DPS phases.

I have to wonder if the NIN in the OP's post was new to having access to Armor Crush. A skill refreshing Huton is something completely new to NIN's gameplay, it takes some adjusting when you're in the habit of using mudras for it. Maybe be a bit more forgiving when people are learning skills that change everything, assuming he was indeed new to it?

Hmmmmm... where to begin...

1. There is no bridge between easy and hard content.

2. DPS is too idolized for a trinity game.

3. Alex was handled very poorly by the dev team.

4. There is a strong discrepancy between gear level and content difficulty.

5. Dungeons have no punishing mechanics.

6. FF14's melee dps classes have inflated difficulty rotations.

7. You are not a unique snowflake.

8. This game is designed around playing too many classes and mastering none.

9. Secondary stats are a joke.

10. No in depth information on any stat.

11. The dev team behind content difficulty has no creativity.

12. SE is playing it safe.

13. Failure on the devs to fix mistakes earlier.

14. Dev team is too small.

15. Lack of server memory and funding

16. All of these contribute in some way to your problem.

17. Solutions?

18. SE either fixes the problem or you find another way to spend your time.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/chara...3/4/#boss=1029

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My DPS Isn't even recorded on this ;__;

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I had a SMN who would only apply DoTs if they had aetherflow stacks for Tri-Disaster. Then they would spam ruin 3 till almost out of MP, then spam ruin. Oh, and they would use Deathflare immediately, instead of using ruin 3 while in dreadwyrm trance until it was almost over.

But according to this board, the smn probably wasn't bad.

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What? Do you even play summoner?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

What? Do you even play summoner?

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That's sorta the problem; the summoner he's talking about did just that.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

That's sorta the problem; the summoner he's talking about did just that.

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The summoner he was talking about did some wizardry then because that's not how tri-disaster works... He literally typed bullshit and expected people who don't play summoner to believe him (which apparently worked...).

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

The summoner he was talking about did some wizardry then because that's not how tri-disaster works... He literally typed bullshit and expected people who don't play summoner to believe him (which apparently worked...).

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I mean the bigger issue was " instead of using ruin 3 while in dreadwyrm trance until it was almost over."

If there is 3+ mobs, you're better off using Blizzard II in Dread trance than Ruin III!

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I mean the bigger issue was " instead of using ruin 3 while in dreadwyrm trance until it was almost over."

If there is 3+ mobs, you're better off using Blizzard II in Dread trance than Ruin III!

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That beginning of the post kind of made it clear that it was a made up story. It was pretty dubious in the first place that he knew every move that player was making. Also depending on what is going on in the fight, there is a legitimate reason for using deathflare before DWT runs out.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

The summoner he was talking about did some wizardry then because that's not how tri-disaster works... He literally typed bullshit and expected people who don't play summoner to believe him (which apparently worked...).

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That's the point. I've gotten my fair share of players who have absolutely no idea on how their job functions. DRKs thinking that dorkside is a dps-exclusive stance and does't work with grit for one. BRDs that think foe reqieum lowers their damage is another.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

The summoner he was talking about did some wizardry then because that's not how tri-disaster works... He literally typed bullshit and expected people who don't play summoner to believe him (which apparently worked...).

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Umm.. Tri disaster applies Bio, Bio 2, and Miasma. How is what I said wrong? They would not apply DoT's in any other manner. Unless it doesnt take aetherflow stacks, which, even if that bit is wrong, they were still a bad smn :P its a 60 sec recast regardless, so they only applied DoT's ever 60 seconds. Aetherflow has a 60 second recast. Hence my confusion. And since they would lose a stack when they put DoTs on, thats where that thought came from.

No, i dont play smn, cuz I suck at it. I readily admit this. But I still have some base knowledge of how the class works.

I like that you picked the aetherflow bit as to why my post was complete BS, and ignored the rest of it though.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

That beginning of the post kind of made it clear that it was a made up story. It was pretty dubious in the first place that he knew every move that player was making. Also depending on what is going on in the fight, there is a legitimate reason for using deathflare before DWT runs out.

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As for this part. I was tanking, tabbing through targets. Its pretty obvious when you go through a fight and there are no DoTs. And he used deathflare instantly, every single time. Its not hard to pay attention to what other people are doing. Its what helped get my group through the Binding coils, since I was tanking, and able to see everything going on on the field and direct mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Umm.. Tri disaster applies Bio, Bio 2, and Miasma. How is what I said wrong? They would not apply DoT's in any other manner. Unless it doesnt take aetherflow stacks, which, even if that bit is wrong, they were still a bad smn :P its a 60 sec recast regardless, so they only applied DoT's ever 60 seconds. Aetherflow has a 60 second recast. Hence my confusion. And since they would lose a stack when they put DoTs on, thats where that thought came from.

No, i dont play smn, cuz I suck at it. I readily admit this. But I still have some base knowledge of how the class works.

I like that you picked the aetherflow bit as to why my post was complete BS, and ignored the rest of it though.

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You don't use aetherflow for tri-disaster and you don't lose aetherflow for putting on DoTs. You have no idea what you are talking about, which is why you shouldn't be talking about other player's jobs.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

You don't use aetherflow for tri-disaster and you don't lose aetherflow for putting on DoTs. You have no idea what you are talking about, which is why you shouldn't be talking about other player's jobs.

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Ok, so you are going to ignore the part where I said he didnt cast his dots unless he could use tri disaster? Cuz that was the whole point of this post, not that he was losing aetherflow. Ignore the whole aetherflow bit, and move on to the rest of it. You know, the important stuff.

I know you dont use aetherflows for applying Dots. I wasnt aware that tri disaster didnt use it, since thats a new skill and I havent leveled smn beyond 50.

You still ignored the rest of the post tho, and focused on aetherflow as why my post was wrong. Maybe you should learn to comprehend before calling someone out on what they said.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

You don't use aetherflow for tri-disaster and you don't lose aetherflow for putting on DoTs. You have no idea what you are talking about, which is why you shouldn't be talking about other player's jobs.

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Wait... so they ninja fixed Bane and Fester so that they don't cost Aetherflow now? Hallelujah!

Edit: If they were only using Tri Disaster on Cooldown and were using an Aetherflow stack, anyone that plays SMN would know they would use either Fester, Bane, Energy Drain, or Painflare. These are all SMN moves that use Aether stacks, which from what it sounds like, the SMN was using one of the above, minus Bane, everytime they used Tri-Disaster and Aetherflow in tandem.

This post has erupted into just another public shaming...my question to OP did you actually offer advice or just complain about these folks not using guass barrel or armor crush.....if not you are part of the bad dps equation for assuming something that the other person probably didn't even know....

There are some lazy dps but there are also ignorant(not knowing) ones...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Wait... so they ninja fixed Bane and Fester so that they don't cost Aetherflow now? Hallelujah!

Edit: If they were only using Tri Disaster on Cooldown and were using an Aetherflow stack, anyone that plays SMN would know they would use either Fester, Bane, Energy Drain, or Painflare. These are all SMN moves that use Aether stacks, which from what it sounds like, the SMN was using one of the above, minus Bane, everytime they used Tri-Disaster and Aetherflow in tandem.

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Didn't see mention of any of those in the post (of course they were conveniently not included, but the summoner had to be using them because the got to DWT). Just wanted to point out the obvious flaw here. Also being ignorant (of how summoner plays) don't not give the OP the excuse to post wrong information. Who knows what other wrong information he posted based off of his misconception of how the class played? For all we know, that guy was playing properly (he allegedly got to DTW after all) but the poster had no clue what he was even seeing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Ok, so you are going to ignore the part where I said he didnt cast his dots unless he could use tri disaster? Cuz that was the whole point of this post, not that he was losing aetherflow. Ignore the whole aetherflow bit, and move on to the rest of it. You know, the important stuff.

I know you dont use aetherflows for applying Dots. I wasnt aware that tri disaster didnt use it, since thats a new skill and I havent leveled smn beyond 50.

You still ignored the rest of the post tho, and focused on aetherflow as why my post was wrong. Maybe you should learn to comprehend before calling someone out on what they said.

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That's exactly the point thought. It would be even worse had you try to give "advice" to a player when you haven't even played the job. As for anything else you're not going to see them use bio 2 for example more than once per minute and if they use their SC on bio II (for some reason) then you will never see them cast bio II at all. It's like you complain about a blm never using not spamming fire I at level 60 when you don't even know that you don't spam fire I at level 60 (because you never played blm past 50) and make a post on how a player didn't spam fire I in a dungeon at 60 and never used thunder (there's a legitimate reason for not using thunder in UI).

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

You know what, I'm done. You guys want to twist my words, use dps logs against me and call me a troll, whatever, i'm done.

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But did you not do the same on your op withthe machinist in question? Use the dps number to belittle him in the forum?

Ok, let me rephrase this, since its incredibly hard for you to understand.

He used Tri disaster. Then he used bane. Then I assume he used painflare till he build up dreadwyrm trance, then he used deathflare. then he spammed ruin 3.

On a pack of 6+ mobs.

He spammed ruin 3, till he had 1000 mp left. then he just spammed ruin. His DoTs wore off on the pack of mobs at about 75% of their HP. He never reapplied them.

Tell me how this is a good smn please.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

That's exactly the point thought. It would be even worse had you try to give "advice" to a player when you haven't even played the job. As for anything else you're not going to see them use bio 2 for example more than once per minute and if they use their SC on bio II (for some reason) then you will never see them cast bio II at all. It's like you complain about a blm never using not spamming fire I at level 60 when you don't even know that you don't spam fire I at level 60 (because you never played blm past 50) and make a post on how a player didn't spam fire I in a dungeon at 60 and never used thunder (there's a legitimate reason for not using thunder in UI).

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I have a bunch of friends who play smn and are actually good at it. So I know what to look for. As for the BLM thing, I know you don't spam fire 1. But then, you are just assuming I dont know anything about blm because I said I didnt know one skill on smn didnt use aetherflow.

I'd throw some numbers out on this smn, but thats looked down on, and I dont feel like getting people banned.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

That's exactly the point thought. It would be even worse had you try to give "advice" to a player when you haven't even played the job.

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I don't want to involve myself in the conversation you have going here but just wanted to say that you don't necessarily have to have played the job at 60 to be able to give advice. Sure you need to know how the job plays at 60 but that could come from sources outside playing the class yourself.

Hell I myself don't have warrior/monk/ninja to 60 but I could still offer good advice on how to play them.

Shit dies, duty finder dungeon finished under around 25mins or less
Honestly don't care to point fingers at who did better or worse 8D

But would definitely give commendation to the player who showed that they were putting attention into what they were doing and showing team work.

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Originally Posted by Starbirth

17. Solutions?

18. SE either fixes the problem or you find another way to spend your time.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope that FFXIV eventually takes more notes from World of WarCraft. Now, WoW ain't perfect so I am certainly not saying I want a WoW clone. If I want the WoW experience I play WoW and trust me as much as I've loved that game it is a hollowed out carcass of its former self at this point. However, Yoshi-P has said WoW gives him inspiration so why not take inspiration from WoW PvE? It is quite possibly the only thing that game has consistently done well.

Prune the abilities of the classes, simplify and streamline rotations, and shift the difficulty from mechanically perfect execution to encounter design. I know people balk at the idea of ability pruning. WoW did it kind of badly in some cases, stripping individual classes of identity in the process. I think Yoshi-P can learn from that mistake as he's learned from other mistakes Blizzard has made. Pruning can be done well, I'm sure. Personally, I love an interesting raid encounter. I know I haven't done much raiding in this game but I've done some. Primals can be fairly cool but even they could be spiffed up. WoW is excellent for big, spectacular insane fights. FFXIV could be better, especially considering that the core games in the series are the kings of over the top bosses in an RPG setting.

Trading complexity of rotation for complexity of bosses is a trade I'd be willing to make.

(Why do I think both is not possible? I've considered this and a lot of it just comes down to imagination. I am trying to see WoW players tackle something like Blackhand with the rotations of FFXIV and I am pretty sure it would give the playerbase a communal brain hemorrhage.)

Bad Healer get kicked.
Bad Tanks get Kicked.
Bad DPS get carried.

That's about it!

Nothing else needs to be said.
If you kicked a bad DPS because your parsing, You kind of need to say something. OMG DPSX your numbers sucks. quit the game. Vote kick. then they reports you because you pointed out you said numbers to GM.
Tank died/can't hold hate... kick. No parsing needed to know they are bad.
Healer can't keep people alive... kick. No parsing needed to know they are bad.

As a tank grinding turn 4 someone random said Ewitt your numbers are low pick it up. I reported to GM. I don't need that shit while playing a tank.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Because grabbing a parser, going for 3 minutes online to find a rotation for your job, logging into game > going to a dummy and try it out is mindblowing hard right?
There is a crapton of information out there on any class. go to google.com and type "your class" xiv rotation. Done. wow that hard?
Thats how you start learning, but the aforementioned people dont even do this. and it is unexcusable. its just being lazy. No one asks you to be top dps on ur server, but there is a minimum where you shouldnt drop off, and not using ur class properly despite high or low dps (dots and skills) is just a plain synthom of Lazyness. No ps3, no amiga, no atari, no dogs on the keyboard, no lag, nothing else.

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You do know there are people new to MMORPGs, right? I know it may sounds crazy, but some people doesn't even know what "rotation" refers to.
Of course you can start learning how to play any given class by searching the internet, but that's not the only way. You can start learning how to play any given class by actually playing that class in-game, aswell, and that does not have to be related to plain laziness.
On the other hand, some people do not care about enhancing their combat playstyle and decide to play a class just the way they like to, and yet again, it's not necessarily a matter of laziness.

Game with dps checks needs proper meters. Devs are BEYOND STUPID if they think meters are not necessary.

If you don't have a PC then you can't check your dps without help from a friend who has a PC. That being said you don't need meters to do decent dps and many don't dps worth a damn. Why do i have to carry these people through content? If i started doing same bad dps the dungeon would never be cleared. I just did a level 50 dungeon other day on BLM where i did 400 dps on last boss and other blm did a whopping 92. Tank did 93. All synced. Carried much?

The class' are called dps cause there there to do dps. If your not doing that why bother?

And if you try to give pointers, well of course they know best how to play and all so they won't listen.

Recently, I have been playing on my laptop while visiting family and I am finding that playing at 10-14 fps really makes my DPS sink, so if anyone is in those same conditions, it will hamper their DPS, whether it be console or a bad PC, the input lag at such fps is annoying as hell.

Also, some people really do not know how to play their classes because most don't read their tooltips, its quite frustrating but the game does try to teach you somewhat, but it proves unsatisfactory, some DPS also don't care much to maximise DPS on trash mobs for some reason (had a SMN who wouldn't contagion bane because he said it didn't matter)

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Originally Posted by Umo

You do know there are people new to MMORPGs, right? I know it may sounds crazy, but some people doesn't even know what "rotation" refers to.
On the other hand, some people do not care about enhancing their combat playstyle and decide to play a class just the way they like to, and yet again, it's not necessarily a matter of laziness.

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The game does well enough to tell you how to combo and even highlights the abilities to do such (and they automatically place new abilties onto your skill bar as you obtain them). There's honestly no excuse for anyone to be doing less than say, 400....because thats how much I can do on my BRD by just spamming heavy shot. Any lower than that and you're afking to miss both GCDs and auto attacks.

"could even keep up shadow fang/mut"

There's lots of resons for mistaking the DoT timers, being: playing after a day drom work, your brain is tired and keeping up time is harder; lack of a personal timer making it almost impossible to keep track of DoTs when cycling through mobs; mechanic heavy fights or fights that recquire to keep track of every move from the boss on Focus (like Belladona).

Live with it. Embrace the fact that the average players is also average in skill and fails sometimes.