What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I can't argue against more content. I just don't think the game has to change to have more content, and clearly neither do the developers. And we're getting more content, it's just not all at once, and I have to concede the thinking behind that. What good is alot of content all at once if you're STILL going to have the same complaints, just delayed by a week or two? There will never be enough content for some people and for others too much content will wind up just another gate preventing access to future content down the road. You have to find that middle ground and while no answer is perfect, Heavensward does a decent enough job.

Append: And see, even you aurace prefer to ignore Abyssea. We don't need another Abyssea, not by a long shot.

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I think you're slightly missing the point.

nobody is arguing we aren't getting more content, they're saying we aren't getting different content.

Alexander follows the same content formula as Coil. Actually i take that back... The Binding Coil of Bahamut more closely had the markings and framework of a classic raid than Alexander does, and i don't mean in content difficulty.

Remember this?

BCoB Turn 1:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...amut-turn1.jpg

1 Miniboss (ADS), 2 Gatekeepers (golems), a bunch of trash and some chests followed by a boss fight?

Full video below (Cut scene spoilers obv):

BCoB Full Video

Compared to...

Alexander (Gordias) The Fist of the Father:

Steam, Faust, Oppressor

Full Video below (Content spoilers):

Alexander (Normal) Floor 1

Why does it feel like we've gone backwards in regards to raid design and layout? Alexander looks okay but it's story and design both lack the oomph that we got on our first step into the BCoB since they essentially cut out all the extra bells and whistles and just gave us 1 miniboss and 1 final boss.

The point however is that going from ARR to HW endgame shouldnt be following the same format, if we're going to have raids as the highest form of endgame then they need to be approached and feel very different from what we were given previously. Even if Alex normal was as difficult as BCoB was on release it shouldnt be presented in a similar (yet watered down) format.

If XI had an ilvl system from the start and new content replaced what came before on each expansion release, Limbus still didn't feel like Dynamis and Salvage still didn't feel like Limbus. while they all presented similar goals the roads to those ends were very different in execution and they didn't have to turn the design of the game on it's head each time new content came out to do so.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

There is no prestige, there might have been within the first month of 2.0 or so, but after that, practically everyone had one. Everyone and their mother got a relic. It's nothing special. It has about the same amount of prestige as going out and buying an i115 white weapon from a npc.

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My thought of 'prestige' and your thought of 'prestige' are different.

Not to be mean, but you are one of those high end players who looks down your nose at people and complains about everything all the time. Prestige to you is something you and only you and your friends get to have.

There's a lot of people who just have fun and enjoy the game. To them, having the weapon and showing it to friends (who may have seen it a million times, but still are happy to see you have it) is fun.

This is not FFXI or World of Warcraft. The day of the hardcore no life gamer is kinda over. At least in this game. I think some people in this thread should probably accept that.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

My thought of 'prestige' and your thought of 'prestige' are different.

Not to be mean, but you are one of those high end players who looks down your nose at people and complains about everything all the time. Prestige to you is something you and only you and your friends get to have.

There's a lot of people who just have fun and enjoy the game. To them, having the weapon and showing it to friends (who may have seen it a million times, but still are happy to see you have it) is fun.

This is not FFXI or World of Warcraft. The day of the hardcore no life gamer is kinda over. At least in this game. I think some people in this thread should probably accept that.

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So you're saying because someone wants to put in some effort to get a good piece of gear, they're looking down on everyone else? Since when does absolutely everything have to be available to everyone, regardless of the effort put in? To some people, "just having fun and enjoying the game" is putting in the effort to get a good piece of gear - the gear is like a badge that shows "I did this!". I don't think it's "looking down your nose at people" to enjoy having that accomplishment. Prestige isn't something "you and only you and your friends get to have" - it's something that someone who puts in the effort is able to have. Look at it from a real world perspective - only the people who put in the effort gets an A in school, right? Someone who doesn't pay attention / do any work isn't going to get a good grade, nor should they. Obysuca is saying they enjoy putting in the extra effort and would like something to show from it, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Sarcasm noted. And your point is? A HUGE number of players treat the game as if it were a single player game and won't use PF because they run into people like you who do nothing but belittle them for not being up to your standards. What do you expect?

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Err.. Seems you didn't read well my post. First the sarcasm was for a more general theme, not pointing towards you ^^

I am one of those you call Casual Gamer. I used to be able to play 30-40 hours per week, went down to none, after a bit 3 hours per week, and now about 10 hours maximum per week.

It is a teamwork game, not a single-player game. I don't know about you, but even inside instances, where I do type more than your average (and yes, PS4 without a USB Keyboard seems still common) People will only rage when you'll wipe, blaming me (the Tank) or anyone besides them. Otherwise it's silent as heaven..

So.. the belitting that you talk about, is ME receiving it, not giving it lololol

It's so much easier to make friends, being in a good FC, make a group of 4-8-24 and then: Gbye DF.

The daily roulettes are the exception, SE forcing us to play nice with others.. (do they play nice? Some of them yes, that's why i'll still join any group that won't force you to be 110% up to your rotation, etc.. we are humans, we make mistakes, we have a timer, and in no case I've not been able to complete the task within, except when I was progressing within a Raiding group.)

I am trying to make my GF to enjoy the game. She's playing WHM as her main, and I'm doing Dungeons and Trials as soon as she unlocks them. We of course have instant queue, but we still encounter some iLvl200 that wants their roulette done in 5 mins so they can do other stuff. Let me tell you, my GF is good, but learning her skills as we go. if the rest of the party is annoying, what type of experience does that gives her about the game as a whole? Not really high.

I might even sell my house in order to join my old FC (which I admit, I miss WoU) so that she'll have an entirely different view of what a community should be. (and then so long PF, no more bullcrap from anyone)

I don't want to end up that she'll give it up, and then I'll follow, losing all the hard work since 2.0 (some people since 1.0) its a great game, I have great hopes for 4.0 so I'll still wait for it to come. But it's the players that can make or break the feeling of a good game.

Edit to help you: TL;DR My response to your post was to show you that FFXIV ain't towards us Casual Gamers; you seriously need a reality check or take off your rose-colored glasses.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Not to be mean, but you are one of those high end players who looks down your nose at people and complains about everything all the time. Prestige to you is something you and only you and your friends get to have.

There's a lot of people who just have fun and enjoy the game. To them, having the weapon and showing it to friends (who may have seen it a million times, but still are happy to see you have it) is fun.

This is not FFXI or World of Warcraft. The day of the hardcore no life gamer is kinda over. At least in this game. I think some people in this thread should probably accept that.

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Because being hardcore means you have no life and always complain... okay (Oh you just had to do it didn't you. You just had to say that :P). Did you actually read my entire post quoting you? This is not about high end players looking down on people, this is about prolonging the game's life by having actual content to do that doesn't get outdated every 2 months. Add a long term goal like a relic, you get people hooked, more steady money for SE, how is this hard to grasp?

Just like you enjoy the game in a way, high end gamers enjoy the game in a different way. Last I heard this is Final Fantasy, not a Hello Kitty, Barbie or any dress up and corny MMO. We are supposed to fight against freaking cool super strong meanie monsters, we are supposed to go on adventure, not stay home without having much to do. Even Hunts are long forgotten (though I have to admit it is much more fun low man than 500 people on it). You are not the only type of player that exists in the game. You actually act like you were the one looking down at high end game players and not the other way around. There really should be a balance between the two sides of the spectrum. You can't just have one and right now the spectrum is more like 80% casual 20% hardcore. There is not enough content to keep you interested at end game because the content gets oudated so fast, just look at primals. No one wants to do them anymore, parties don't fill up, what else is there to do? Nothing! Read my first post on this thread and just about any posts from other people really, please, so you can actually understand what the problem is.

Edit: Also forgot to add, Not only the content gets outdated so fast that there's no variety in what to do in end game, but there's also no variety in the actual endgame raids that they release, hence why we mention content from FFXI and how they actually expanded on what they had spicing it up and giving the new content a different approach in how to complete it. I already said this on my first post and has been said by others, just important not to forget, too.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

Err.. Seems you didn't read well my post.

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Either that or it wasn't terribly clear...

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Originally Posted by Vickii

stuff a new person has no idea about

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Again, as many people have pointed out, you've only been on XIV for a month and don't have 2 years of experience as the rest of us, which is why you think theres a difference. You haven't even experienced a single update. Give it a year when you've experienced the same things we have and then come back and give an opinion because right now, your opinion holds as much weight as a lvl 1 giving assumptions about endgame.

I'll tell you exactly from experience, that alex is basically the same as coil, just different scenery and bosses (actually coil felt bigger, even though they're both single straight paths). The 2 dungeons out now are exactly the same as the last 2 dungeons. Void ark will just be another faceroll CT. Different scenery does not mean new content. New and varied content means something that feels different from the last content.
The thing is, thats what XIV does right now, goes from 8 man raids, to 24, then 8, then 24, each update cycle. What we're asking for is more options in EACH update, so we have the option of a new 8 man AND 24 man at the same time, so theres more variety thats relevant rather than a single raid with 4 bosses that gets thrown out in 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Replaced? Unless I miss my guess, nothing was replaced, new things were added.

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Last time I'm going to say it because it really feels like you're not getting it and just blindly defending XIV. But yes, replaced. Everything pre 3.0 was replaced. Do people do coil? Do people do ex primals? Do people do any of the lvl 50 dungeons if they're not doing high lvl? Do people do CT? No. No they don't. You can even see this with other topics popping up about people trying to do pony farms and no one's joining. All of that content was replaced. If it wasn't replaced, like you're saying, then people would still be doing those, they'd still be relevant, the gear would be useful, but it's not. None of it is.

Just like the content we have now, will be replaced in 3.1, hardly anyone will touch Neverreap / Fractal or alex. Nothing new was added. You can't say new content was added when they throw out the content they just added to, you guessed it, replace what they just had in the update before. If they keep Neverreap and Fractal in expert, bump alex normal up to i200, while still adding in void ark and 2 new dungeons, then sure, "new" things were added, we'd have more variety, but that won't happen. The 2 dungeons/alex now will be trash in a few weeks/month. Judging by how CT always had lower ilvl than what was out, it'll most likely just be for glamour for your main or subpar gear for your other jobs. Look at Ravana and Bismarck ex, do you ever see pts for those anymore? I sure don't. People did it, got their stuff, never touched it again. Bismarck was obsolete on release, considering you could do a few hunts and have a better weapon than what dropped in Bismarck.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

The 2 dungeons out now are exactly the same as the last 2 dungeons.

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"Exactly the same"? Step for step? Mob for mob? Boss for boss? Mechanic for mechanic?

Really? I mean, really? Come on, you can do better than that. Obviously the 2 most recent dungeons are NOT exactly the same as the last two.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Last time I'm going to say it because it really feels like you're not getting it and just blindly defending XIV. But yes, replaced. Everything pre 3.0 was replaced. Do people do coil? Do people do ex primals? Do people do any of the lvl 50 dungeons if they're not doing high lvl? Do people do CT? No. No they don't. You can even see this with other topics popping up about people trying to do pony farms and no one's joining. All of that content was replaced. If it wasn't replaced, like you're saying, then people would still be doing those, they'd still be relevant, the gear would be useful, but it's not. None of it is. Just like the content we have now, will be replaced in 3.1, hardly anyone will touch Neverreap / Fractal or alex.

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Your outlook and cynicism is quite stark, I hope I never have the displeasure of running into you in-game. Oh, and as usual, you repeat the same empty statements.

A Better Summoner thats what Heavensward brought.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Either that or it wasn't terribly clear...

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After I took the time to type it all to you and reply after it, that's all you can come with?

just like one of your other post here: You can do better than that ^^

True character unveiled here lol

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

"Exactly the same"? Step for step? Mob for mob? Boss for boss? Mechanic for mechanic?

Really? I mean, really? Come on, you can do better than that. Obviously the 2 most recent dungeons are NOT exactly the same as the last two.



Your outlook and cynicism is quite stark, I hope I never have the displeasure of running into you in-game. Oh, and as usual, you repeat the same empty statements.

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Except.. they aren't empty statements, they're valid, legitimate concerns. People AREN'T doing old content anymore, making it essentially "replaced" with the new content. As far as I can tell, you're just ignoring everything he's saying in order to insult him.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

"Exactly the same"? Step for step? Mob for mob? Boss for boss? Mechanic for mechanic?

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Know what. I'm done. You're obviously not reading crap anyone posts. I said besides scenery and tiny mechanics. A small mechanic like "click a tube when its making an AoE" like fractal, doesn't make something new. Actually, that same exact mechanics was in Halatali hm with the shield and know what? It was essentially the same mob too. Both did the swings, the frontal and AoE. The laser from Halatali hm is pretty much the line AoE in fractal. Don't stand in front and it misses.

Don't care if I sound like a jerk for saying so, but with how you're posting, not reading anything and just trying to insult people, you're the type of player that's been a plague on mmos in the last 10 years, the reason why they've been so stale and die out in 1-3 years, rather than living and thriving for 10-16 years like the mmos from the late 90s to early 2000s that are still going.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

"Exactly the same"? Step for step? Mob for mob? Boss for boss? Mechanic for mechanic?

Really? I mean, really? Come on, you can do better than that. Obviously the 2 most recent dungeons are NOT exactly the same as the last two.

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Now you're arguing semantics~

Are they the same in execution? No

Are they the same in function? Yes


They fulfill the same role in the pyramid of content, just like the last set of cap dungeons and the ones before that. They're great for the ride the first 4-5 times but then when it becomes daily routine because of the weekly tome cap they wear pretty quickly. They also don't offer any value on their own merit in the scheme of content and gear acquisition, if not for the tomes they'd be essentially useless for gear drops except maybe vanity (good enough reason for some to be fair).

And yeah the cycle will continue with each addition of new dungeons filling the slot of the 2 dungeons you run over and over again because we love filling Rowena's coffers, just like the current revolving door design of raids and 24 man content.

and this:

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Originally Posted by aurace1095

Except.. they aren't empty statements, they're valid, legitimate concerns. People AREN'T doing old content anymore, making it essentially "replaced" with the new content. As far as I can tell, you're just ignoring everything he's saying in order to insult him.

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Completely correct, i believe there are threads of people posting complaints and pictures of like 2hr+ queue times for CT due to lack of players actually doing the content.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Last time I'm going to say it because it really feels like you're not getting it and just blindly defending XIV.

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It has to be terribly clear in order for that person you are typing for, to read and understand the point of our posts (view mine and that person's answer to it ^^)

So I'll put that person under my troll list.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip

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Think he obviously knows that the two new dungeons aren't the exact same as the last two, his point is that every dungeon is uniformly made. There is no variety, just basically reskins. All of it comes out of a cookie cutter factory... same the holds true for raids and primals. You zone in and fight a single boss and thats it. Then your allowed to go to the next one. In this theme park of a game, there is only one end game ride. and it gets boring doing it over and over again. :X SE is sorely lacking in innovation and creativity in there game design basically.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

rude, elitist post

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On the forums for a month. I've played enough of the game to see that you're your stereotypical cry baby that wants the game developed for them and them only.

I repeat, I think you've played for too long and it's probably time for you to move on, because most people i see in game are happy for the most part and there doesn't appear to be anything you like about the game anymore. I don't wanna be mean but go look at your post history. You haven't posted anything positive... seemingly ever.

Addiction is never good sweetie, go do something you enjoy, life will be better.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

On the forums for a month. I've played enough of the game to see that you're your stereotypical cry baby that wants the game developed for them and them only.

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Actually, no, no I'm not lol not by a long shot. I've played mmos for 15 years and the suggestions me and others have given are whats kept older mmos going for 13-16 years. The stuff XIV is doing are the reasons why every mmo in the last 10 years has died in 1-3 years.

Also, don't try to pull that "on the forums for a month" crap, you specifically said in multiple other topics how you're new and just started a month ago, so nice try lol

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Originally Posted by Vickii

This is true of FF14. I joined a month ago

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...75#post3310075

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I am a new player, doing the relic quest and using my relic weapon even though someone in my FC offered to make me a white weapon which is way better.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...97#post3309897

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I'm a new player and after the initial levels were over, and i had one quest in my log and i'd done all the dungeons i had available, I was thinking 'it's been a fun trial but i doubt i'll stay much longer because there isn't that much to do'.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...43#post3309843

These were all posted in the last few days, so nice try. Like I've said before, you've yet to even experience a single update as it came out, so to you, everything is new and exciting. When to us, the people who have played since 1.0 and 2.0, we've seen that every update is the same rehash and 75% of an update is just glamour and minions. That can be part of a mmo, but shouldn't be the main part of a mmo, a good majority of us play a mmo to actually do content, not dress up and collect minions, there's games specifically for that.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

If XI had an ilvl system from the start and new content replaced what came before on each expansion release, Limbus still didn't feel like Dynamis and Salvage still didn't feel like Limbus. while they all presented similar goals the roads to those ends were very different in execution and they didn't have to turn the design of the game on it's head each time new content came out to do so.

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Was I the only one who upon hearing about Alexander's "Floors" expected something more like Nyzul Isle Investigation or even climbing the crags\Delkfutt tower? I thought we would be ascending through floors to get to the final bosses, but instead its just 30 seconds of an AOE fest, falling down a couple of broken staircases that I swear are copy pasta from Praetorium, and then a surf board. I hadn't even been thinking about recycled mechanics of bosses but yea, Coincounter and Ifrit's recycled mechanics come straight to mind. There's a couple of interesting new ones, but the whole design itself is still just... meh, and that's not even taking into account my personal opinion of the design methodology of just tossing 30+ different insta-death mechanics in rapid sequence at someone until they either mess up and die or finally memorize it.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Also, don't try to pull that "on the forums for a month" crap, you specifically said in 2 other topics how you're new and just started a month ago, so nice try lol

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Seeing as how I had a 15 day trial.. and a 30 day free subscription.. and I'm 16 days into my current subscription, it's more than a month. Did I say a month. Perhaps. It's still 'new' to me. But I've played enough content to see a lot of people enjoying it at all levels.

Like I said, go look at your post history. You only have positive things to say about XI and this game seems your desperate attempt to get some of that magic back. You clearly don't like it or enjoy it, you are rude to your fellow players, you are elitist, you belittle others experiences and those who disagree with you and most importantly, doesn't look like you're having all that much fun. Maybe you should take a break. But yeah, good luck with your life, i'm done with you.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Was I the only one who upon hearing about Alexander's "Floors" expected something more like Nyzul Isle Investigation or even climbing the crags\Delkfutt tower?

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Nah i'm right there with you, i was totally expecting (hoping for) something in the vein of Nyzul Isle, but then again there was a part of me also hoping that when hunts were first announced that they were going to be like ZNMs (minus taking selfies with mobs) and well... yeah.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Seeing as how I had a 15 day trial.. and a 30 day free subscription.. and I'm 16 days into my current subscription, it's more than a month. Did I say a month. Perhaps. It's still 'new' to me. But I've played enough content to see a lot of people enjoying it at all levels.

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I really hope you're not talking about low level dungeons and the lvl 50 ones lol People don't choose to do those, they do them because they want eso and only do them once a day. That's not "enjoying it at all levels"

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Like I said, go look at your post history. You only have positive things to say about XI and this game seems your desperate attempt to get some of that magic back. You clearly don't like it or enjoy it, you are rude to your fellow players, you are elitist, you belittle others experiences and those who disagree with you and most importantly, doesn't look like you're having all that much fun. Maybe you should take a break. But yeah, good luck with your life, i'm done with you.

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The reason a lot of people have positive things to say about XI and the reason we keep bringing it up, is because it was made by SE also, so it shows they can be creative and fun, rather than giving us rehash after rehash and little to no content, like XIV is doing.
And how exactly am I being rude? For giving suggestions that'd improve the game and keep it alive longer? Have I gone and straight up insulted someone and told them to "gtfo and quit"? No. The only people who have been saying for people to quit are people like you and the ones who are blindly following Yoshi. That right there is being rude to players.
It's not belittling others experiences when you're a fresh new player with barely a month of experience, trying to give a huge opinion on stuff you know nothing about. Come back in a year after you've been through a couple of updates and then we'll talk.

I'll chime in with my 2 gil here, I feel that 3.0 offered 2.0 with a new coat of paint. New enemy types, new classes, new story, and hey, flying was neat for a bit. Other than a story mode raid, all the treadmill conventions that were in place in 2.X were transplanted directly into 3.0. Hunts, an alternate currency tomestone, another type of tomestone, endgame dungeons, endgame raid, EX primals, treasure maps, it's all been used before and implemented in the same manner as before.

I'm not saying these things are evil, I trudged through them for 2 years, and they serviced the need. They are, however, old. Throwing these tired conventions at us is like hitting that chute at the end of Chutes and Ladders that sets you right back to the beginning, you look all the way back to the top of the game board, sigh, and say, "Whelp, let's do it again." There's nothing new about the climb, the only thing that changed is you're at the bottom instead of the top. Variety is the key here, and while I recognize that SE did over time implement new things to do over the course of 2.X, feeling hard up for fresh content after dropping an expansion doesn't leave me with anything near a powerful urge to continue logging in like I did before.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I repeat, I think you've played for too long and it's probably time for you to move on, because most people i see in game are happy for the most part and there doesn't appear to be anything you like about the game anymore. I don't wanna be mean but go look at your post history. You haven't posted anything positive... seemingly ever.

Addiction is never good sweetie, go do something you enjoy, life will be better.

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Here's the thing - unless an MMO is shutting down, it should never be time to "move on" from it. It's not addiction, it's built into the genre of the game. We all love this game, and want to keep playing it. The issue is that, even though an expansion just came out, we feel like there's very little to do. The game should have new and varied content that keeps you logging in to play. As far as the complaints go, Yoshi-P said himself at his GDC presentation a few years back "Running an MMORPG is like running a country... If citizens are complaining, it means they still care." If we didn't care about the game, we wouldn't be complaining about it.

http://odinwatch.com/wp-content/uplo...-complaint.jpg

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

snip.

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I'm talking about players in general. My FC enjoys the high end raids and dungeons. People enjoy levelling crafting classes. I've done things in gold saucer with level 60s. I can assure you some of them do do lower level stuff and enjoy it.

Why? Because a lot of us are nice people, make and have friends and can find fun in anything. Where as you don't seem to be looking for fun. You're looking to recapture some magic you found somewhere else. You play for tokens and gear, not for enjoyment. And you forget you're a minority.

Sorry, but it's not lots of players. Its you and a few others. Barely anyone is praising XI over XIV. Also you are not helpful, you are negative and unconstructive. They won't listen to you because it's little more than crying, you don't consider much beyond you and yours or acknowledge the good parts. Thats not constructive. And you are rude, so lets move on. I hope you can find enjoyment in the game, or another game you enjoy. Best wishes.

I feel that 3.0 added lots of great content, but made it all pointless at too rapid a rate. Things that have already been mentioned in this thread:

1. Leveling story, amazing, but no way to reply it (or side quests)
2. Leveling dungeons, no use to go back once leveled
3. Hunts, no use doing these once you have 180 gear
4. Bismark Ex, no use doing this except for clear (law weapon is better and easier to obtain)
5. Rav Ex, no use doing this except clear (outdone by Eso weapon)
6. Alex NM, no use doing this after a couple of weeks, eso gear is better/maxed out 190 gear
7. Massive beautiful maps, no use going here unless gather/crafting/hunts

Anyway, there is more I am sure, but they added a lot, but it was all outdated at an extremely fast rate. Leaving only a small amount of content not outdated and thus we just do the same few things over and over (2 ex dungeons and savage).

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Sorry, but it's not lots of players. Its you and a few others.

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Just going to point out, it actually is a lot of players. Look at the total amount of subs now, compared to a year or even two years ago. They've dropped massively and theres a reason for that.
Not everyone posts on the forums either. 5 mil accounts =/= 5 mil players. Going to say it again, since some people still don't get it and think theres a ton of players and the game is doing good, when it isn't. But the actual total of players is about 600k-700k (but 5 million accounts?), out of those 600k-700k, about 100k-200k are rmt. Out of whats left, theres about 100k or so that aren't actively playing and only have an active account because they bought extra subscription time. So, not counting rmt, people with 2 accounts for refer a friend and people who have extra time, there's really only about 300k or so. So yes, it is actually a lot of players who feel this way about XIV, seeing as how in 2.0, there were tons of people, by 2.1 the number dropped by 1/4th and has continued to drop each update.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

You play for tokens and gear, not for enjoyment. And you forget you're a minority.

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So playing for tokens and gear means you don't play for enjoyment? LOL Some people find enjoyment in getting those things you know. Sure sounds like you're belittling people's experiences, being rude to fellow players and all that stuff you claimed about me. Perhaps you were really talking about yourself.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

Fully agree with the Alexander part. Adding normal mode was a huge mistake.

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Yup, it took an already underwhelming story and watered it down. It had no mystery about it. It definitely lost it's appeal when you could get the entire story in about an hour on patch day. I miss how coil worked where the story was such a rewarding part of raiding.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Seeing as how I had a 15 day trial.. and a 30 day free subscription.. and I'm 16 days into my current subscription, it's more than a month. Did I say a month. Perhaps. It's still 'new' to me. But I've played enough content to see a lot of people enjoying it at all levels.

Like I said, go look at your post history. You only have positive things to say about XI and this game seems your desperate attempt to get some of that magic back. You clearly don't like it or enjoy it, you are rude to your fellow players, you are elitist, you belittle others experiences and those who disagree with you and most importantly, doesn't look like you're having all that much fun. Maybe you should take a break. But yeah, good luck with your life, i'm done with you.

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If you have only been here ~2 months, then you never even experienced the content we are talking about when it was relevant. Some of us have been here since actual launch, and I don't mean ARR launch. I mean all of it right down to buying Ps3's in anticipation of a game that never came (well, eventually it did but most of us were already settled on PC by then). Once you have played for a year or two and experienced the endgame at different stages, you might have a different opinion. I wish I could go back to being a starry-eyed two month old adventurer instead of the cynical creature the lifetime of this game has made me.

It's better than 1.0 was, in many ways worse than 2.0 was, and overall not living up to what XI was. Sometimes I feel like they just underestimate us as players, running the gamut from calling Firaga Fire II because they didn't think Americans would understand Firaga was an AOE, to dumbing down summons because they didn't believe players could handle complex and dynamic levels of play. This game feels like it was designed for very casual with very short attention span, else very hardcore with OCD tunnel vision that doesn't care about the experience and only the win\bragging rights.

There's very little in between and what IS in between, is just copy pasta. It's copy pasta from other games. It's copy pasta from earlier encounters, and there's so little of it that it's impossible NOT to notice that it's just copy pasta.

Again, all of us are here because we genuinely like aspects of this game and want to keep playing. We are FF fans. But that's all the more reason for SE to listen to our grievances, because we are the ones who kept XI running for over a decade. We are the ones who will keep this game running as well. If they don't address the grievances, eventually we'll just move on and that will be absolute tragedy for the continuing development of this game. They need subscriptions to keep designing content. If they aren't putting real effort into designing that content, the subscriptions will die out and you and those other two month old people will inherit a F2P game with a P2W cash shop and an even more overwhelming army of RMT and bots than we already have.

Think about it before telling people who are having a rational discussion about what they'd like to see changed to quit.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Just going to point out, it actually is a lot of players. Look at the total amount of subs now, compared to a year or even two years ago.

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All of those players thought FFXI was better? Because I'm pretty sure thats just you and a handful of others.

As far as people leaving, that's kinda the trend for MMO's as a whole. The generation who were really into them are getting married and having kids. The facebook generation has never picked up on them in the same way, which is why there was that boom you were talking about 15 years ago. It has nothing to do with archaic mechanics. FFXI was in the right place at the right time. This is infinitely a better game. Don't cry.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Well, that's because WoW focuses on raid content releases after the initial dungeons because those dungeons are obsolete at that point.

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That is only true from MoP onward. Prior to that they released more dungeons in latter patches (BC, WotLK and Cata)

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

just that their last xpac launched with more content and somehow managed to give players their own personal instanced CITY and this game can't even give us a mog house.

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The facebook mini-game that is Garrisons has been one of the most scrutinized and negatively criticized features of WoD as well as the expansion's overall horrible lack of content. Did it launch with more content? Not really. It launched with more dungeons.

You only get 5 Eso for running lower level dungeon Roulette. As a tank that is not good enough incentive to run, even if it is offering a 10k gil bonus. I pretty much run EX roulette once a week, and then run frontline daily. And then run Alexander normal to get my 450 per week.

People have different preferences. I have gotten most of my law tombs from doing Hunts.

Pretty sure people who are non crafters are bored out of their mind right now.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

-snip-

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eh honestly now i feel like your borderline attacking Obysuca, i don't feel he has been rude in any of his posts, i do however feel like you have. Also unless you know ever player in the game, you really can't say "it's not a lot of players". It's great that you and your friends are enjoying the game and having fun, but that doesnt mean the game can't have faults or make room for improvement and variety. You can still enjoy something and suggest things that you think should be added. And telling someone that they arent being constructive, that there post won't be consider by the devs, and should leave the game, is entirely negative and unconstructive in and of itself. But hey for all anyone knows, your probably just trolln.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

THE GOD DAMNED TRUTH!!!

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Jesus, that was so well thought out, articulate and pragmatic.. I really wish I could like this 99 times! I agree with you 110%

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I really hope you're not talking about low level dungeons and the lvl 50 ones lol People don't choose to do those, they do them because they want eso and only do them once a day. That's not "enjoying it at all levels"
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It's not belittling others experiences when you're a fresh new player with barely a month of experience, trying to give a huge opinion on stuff you know nothing about. Come back in a year after you've been through a couple of updates and then we'll talk.

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Who exactly are you trying to represent here? I am certainly not in your version of "people" since I'm still doing level 50 dungeons, low level dungeons and HW leveling dungeons quite happily without any eso reward. ;)

You seem to have this idea that you are speaking for the majority, when in fact out of the 5 million registered accounts 2.5 million bought the game after December of last year. When half the player base has been here less than a year, a new player's opinion counts just as much. Oh wait. I've only been playing 6 months so my voice can't quite reach the top of your high horse yet.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

The facebook mini-game that is Garrisons has been one of the most scrutinized and negatively criticized features of WoD as well as the expansion's overall horrible lack of content. Did it launch with more content? Not really. It launched with more dungeons.

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I'm not arguing that Garrisons were great or that compared to previous xpacs WoD was great. I'm personally in the WoTLK camp.

I was taking specifics and comparing them to this game. I postulated that Blizzard managed to make instancing work for all their players in the form of an entire city and compared that specifically to housing here, where SE says it's "too hard" to instance (even though XI did it too). I argued that they put 8 dungeons in right off the bat instead of only 2 at endgame and the rest you never see again after leveling. Don't take the comments out of context - that's disingenuous to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

when in fact out of the 5 million registered accounts 2.5 million bought the game after December of last year.

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And here we go again because people can't read >_> lol Out of those 2.5 mil, you forget a majority are rmt, people who have quit already before trial was up (I know quite a few who did this), people who got 50 and quit and the double subscriptions for the refer a friend. How many stayed? Not 2.5 million I can assure you that. Registered accounts =/= active subscribers

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Who exactly are you trying to represent here? I am certainly not in your version of "people"

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Who else is tired of people these days coming in and they see someone going "People" and they automatically assume it means them? Seriously, too many people are WAY too sensitive these days and assume everything is about them, when it's not. People can be used as a term to mean, not everyone, but a general amount of people. Did I say "Reinha doesn't do 50 dungeons"? No, I said people. That can mean any number of people. It doesn't mean every single person. So just stop it with that crap, all you're doing is making yourself look stupid with the "me me me, screw everyone else, only I matter" attitude that kids these days have.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I argued that they put 8 dungeons in right off the bat instead of only 2 at endgame and the rest you never see again after leveling. Don't take the comments out of context - that's disingenuous to the discussion.

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Where and when did you argue this?

Your initial post just made mentioned that WoD launched with 8 dungeons and HW having 2, calling it "hardly worth of even being called content". Nothing about "instead of 2 at endgame and the rest never seen again after leveling".

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WoW's last xpac released with 8 dungeons at all difficulty levels. We have 2 in expert roulette and let me tell you, I have to force myself to run them to help friends because I'm so tired of the same two dungeons over and over again. I don't mind grinding content, but 2 dungeons for an xpac is hardly worthy of even being called content. Where's the expert versions of all the leveling dungeons we got that outside of leveling we haven't ever seen again?

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You make mention of "where are the expert versions of leveling dungeons?" Well see those are added later with the dungeon patches. As always. (Tam Tara, Brayflox etc etc etc)

We will have more dungeons added through patches which increases the dungeon pool as time goes on. Furthermore the older dungeons are added to roulettes and are seen again, unlike in WoW where once you out-level a dungeon you can never enter it again outside of manually going to the entrance and walking it.

None of that original quote though mentions 2 dungeons and everything else is forgotten in comparison to the 8 dungeons WoD launched with.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Not everyone posts on the forums either. 5 mil accounts =/= 5 mil players. Going to say it again, since some people still don't get it and think theres a ton of players and the game is doing good, when it isn't. But the actual total of players is about 600k-700k (but 5 million accounts?), out of those 600k-700k, about 100k-200k are rmt. Out of whats left, theres about 100k or so that aren't actively playing and only have an active account because they bought extra subscription time. So, not counting rmt, people with 2 accounts for refer a friend and people who have extra time, there's really only about 300k or so.

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Most recent census revealed that the number of active players is around 800k-900k. Active, as in learning new minions and other stuff. So I have no idea where you are pulling those numbers from. Keep shouting account =/= active player, it still doesn't prove your claim about dropping sub numbers.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

And here we go again because people can't read >_> lol Out of those 2.5 mil, you forget a majority are rmt, people who have quit already before trial was up (I know quite a few who did this), people who got 50 and quit and the double subscriptions for the refer a friend. How many stayed? Not 2.5 million I can assure you that. Registered accounts =/= active subscribers

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Also, the 5 million doesn't count trials. Only people who have bought the game. Oh and don't forget that not all of the 2.5 million previous customers from 2013 and 2014 stayed either.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Most recent census revealed that the number of active players is around 800k-900k. Active, as in learning new minions and other stuff. So I have no idea where you are pulling those numbers from. Keep shouting account =/= active player, it still doesn't prove your claim about dropping sub numbers.

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Want more proof? Look at FC numbers. Seeing as you said you've only played for 6 months, you wouldn't have noticed it, since the current numbers are normal for you. But in 2.0, most FCS had about 50 active members online at a time, by 2.1 they were down to 30, then it kept dropping lower until about 2.4 when the majority of FCs, even the big 100+ member ones, only had about 10 or less active people online at a time. HW came out and it jumped up a bit, but now most FC are back down to 10 or less. And I'm not just giving my own FC experience, this is from viewing other FC's and other people's posts about the same issue.

Same thing can be said to you, no idea where you're pulling numbers from. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e8ff1bcf34c5ae census shows nothing about 800k-900k. My numbers are from SE themselves, who last year, said the total population combined for XI, XIV and DQ are 1 mil. XI's got about 100k-200k or so, DQ most likely has about 200k-300k give or take since its Japan only. You can even see this just by playing the game. Know why SE doesn't allow you to see how many people are online on your server, like most mmos do? They don't want you to know how little people there actually are.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Also, the 5 million doesn't count trials. Only people who have bought the game. Oh and don't forget that not all of the 2.5 million previous customers from 2013 and 2014 stayed either.

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You know you get a trial from buying the game, right? A lot of people have bought it, then quit before that trial was up, resulting in a registered account.