Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Skizzle just keeps making complaint threads about there being nothing to do without even clearing Bismarck EX or Alex Normal. Probably better just to ignore him now.

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Maybe it's because his FC rank name is "TROLOLOL Master".

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

What you GOT from your investment was months of being at the top of the line; not an eternal place among the stars.

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This, right here, is why I am against house transfers to Ishgard.

Anyroad, we must needs please look forward to it.

As long as there is a way to keep upgrading the relics, then I don't mind being behind until I get caught up. I just wish HW dungeons gave lights. But if there were never any updates to the line, then that entire line of the game may as well be erased, nobody would do it. Yeah, bust your butt for ilvl 80, 90, 100, 110, 115, etc. etc. weapons, or, just buy the ilvl 115 weapon right at level 50 in Heavensward.

As it is so few probably even do the relic armour quests at level 45 and 50, for the upgrades. I remember doing mine, putting the outfit on, see how it looks, and straight into the Armoire.

Just the nature of the game. Something can't be updated? Used for glamour. Something can be updated to remain remotely close to the best? Used as your gear set. Or for glamour when you DO get something slightly better.

Every game does this. Every game can make you spend a large amount of time to gain something, just to have it outdated.

"Did someone say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?"

End the end, it is worth your time to do it sooner so you can be among the top for a while, or do it later if it can be upgraded or it can be used for glamours.

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

1) Traditionally, an expansion to an MMO means that all the stuff you had becomes effectively useless.

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Unless a FFXI move happens, where your old Relic weapons, Relic gear, and Artifact gear can be upgraded to high portions.

When your old gear goes from this:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20090217072249

to this:
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140415143420

...you'll always feel good about obtaining/keeping gear.

Jim_Berry: People from this new generation are so used to these free handouts and want new stuff constantly that it just ruins the gear you tried to earn. The idea of beeing able to upgrade old gear is what made old content valuable and replayable it also makes grinding rewarding etc. Sadly people here refuse to get it everytime we bring it up we are almost idiots who dont know anything.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Unless a FFXI move happens, where your old Relic weapons, Relic gear, and Artifact gear can be upgraded to high portions.

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Shame that stuff like this will never happen here.
We will be probably able to skip a few dialogs as a reward for having ZETA and then end up in same grind we had to do before.
I am all about game being friendly to newcomers, but this game is scrapping all achievements faster than I have ever seen in any other MMO I have played.
Imagine the new relic being a bit stronger if you had ZETA when you started the Q. There would be enormous portion of rant on forums, mostly by people who don't even raid = who don't even have to min/max.

So the only thing you will have for playing this game for 5 years compared to someone who plays it 3 months is the amount of titles.
It might be enough for someone..

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Jim_Berry: People from this new generation are so used to these free handouts and want new stuff constantly that it just ruins the gear you tried to earn. The idea of beeing able to upgrade old gear is what made old content valuable and replayable it also makes grinding rewarding etc. Sadly people here refuse to get it everytime we bring it up we are almost idiots who dont know anything.

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Ok, seriously...what part of "irrelevant items now" did you not understand ?

Or, you're naive enough so that you think items in the first year of an MMO will always be useful ?

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

^As a Paladin main who had to stick with a single miserable 123123123 combo for about 2 years I'm just sitting here laughing at how you seem to think the level cap raise was unnecessary.

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you can add new skills without rasing a level cap. take a look at dark age of camelot and other titles that never raised thier cap. they added new skills aswell. thats a very lame excuse you have for a level cap raise you got there. its just a excuse and not more.

the relic could be continued without level cap raise. of course at some point it would required a massiv nerf to let new players catch up. nothing wrong with letting new players catch up. but resetting endgame for the sake of resetting it without adding anything NEW to endgame progressen is unnecessary.

Have you not noticed he's just trolling yet?

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

you can add new skills without rasing a level cap. take a look at dark age of camelot and other titles that never raised thier cap. they added new skills aswell. thats a very lame excuse you have for a level cap raise you got there. its just a excuse and not more.

the relic could be continued without level cap raise. of course at some point it would required a massiv nerf to let new players catch up. nothing wrong with letting new players catch up. but resetting endgame for the sake of resetting it without adding anything NEW to endgame progressen is unnecessary.

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Clearly we don't know the difference between horizontal and vertical progression. Yes. Let us reset the entire game because this guy on the forums like games from the year 2002 and piss off most of the player base. Thank god you're not part of marketing...

This isn't DaoC or XI. Different kind of game. Hate to break it to you and your naive friend here who seems to think oldschool relics need to be kept the way they are. You can go there for that sort of progression, shoo.

I loved xi and the grind, but if xiv is anything near xi I wouldn't be playing it.

I used to have 8 hours a day to play xi; I work as a lawyer now and barely have 3 a week.

Xiv may piss many people off but for all us 'casuals' it's God-sent. After all this is a game - we wanna play it for fun not treat it as a second job.

when you play a game that continually updates, old content is going to get outclassed by newer content, and the methods of obtaining the newer content isn't necessarily going to be similar to how the old content was obtained.

that's just how mmos work. items that you put a lot of work into farming or grinding or whatever for now are going to be irrelevant farther down the line. that's life.

His FC mastery title says enough, (Clear as day in Lodestone, look it up) and at this point his posts should come with the disclaimer that he is purposefully inflaming the GD with remarks, while respectful in the strictest defination of the word, are designed to ignite heated conversation between people.

Let me be clear, he has no investment in this topic whatsoever. He knows better and he's just seeing how many people he can egg on. I suggest you follow his lead when it comes to investment in and take a step back.

Relic weapons should come as no surprise to anyone at this point. It's old knowledge. Those with a completed Relic get a head-start on the next one coming around.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

His FC mastery title says enough, (Clear as day in Lodestone, look it up) and at this point his posts should come with the disclaimer that he is purposefully inflaming the GD with remarks, while respectful in the strictest defination of the word, are designed to ignite heated conversation between people.

Let me be clear, he has no investment in this topic whatsoever. He knows better and he's just seeing how many people he can egg on. I suggest you follow his lead when it comes to investment in and take a step back.

Relic weapons should come as no surprise to anyone at this point. It's old knowledge. Those with a completed Relic get a head-start on the next one coming around.

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His FC name may be incredibly stupid, but his thread does hold a few good points. No need to call everyone who disagrees with the direction the game is going a "troll" as people have been saying.

what u had was a good-bis weapen at the time. what more do you think that relic owes you?

Is it really such a painful thought that new players wont have to farm atmas for a weapen that will have i90 stats in a day when ilvl200 weapon should be the minimum expected weapon in a raid group?

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Originally Posted by Colorful

His FC name may be incredibly stupid, but his thread does hold a few good points. No need to call everyone who disagrees with the direction the game is going a "troll" as people have been saying.

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There's no valid points here. At all. It's not a matter of what is agreeing and disagreeing. It's people expressing a desire for a different sub-genre of MMO than FFXIV has chosen to be. There's no headway to be had there in discussion.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

There's no valid points here. At all. It's not a matter of what is agreeing and disagreeing. It's people expressing a desire for a different sub-genre of MMO than FFXIV has chosen to be. There's no headway to be had there in discussion.

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Well I wrote a long post in response, but that annoying daily limit killed it so I'm just going to attempt a TL;DR of it.

That carrot on the stick can coexistent with casually obtained items, such as tome gear. As I've stated before, it doesn't even have to be items that posses stats that are superior, there's nothing that holds value and will continue to hold value for a long time to come, other than Kirin. When I saw Shadowmourne, the Warglaives, Invincible, etc, I was amazed. Those items are things that hold up to their name, they made me want to go out and spend months obtaining them, unfortunately, I didn't end up getting them but they kept me going when there was not much else to do. They held some value that wasn't immediately diminished with the launch of the next expansion for those that had obtained them prior (to the point of the relic nerfs). Yes, they were useless, but why does that mean they need to be nerfed? It didn't, and that's why they weren't.

Why can't relic weapons be that thing in this game? Is that too much to ask for? Don't like working on outdated content for weeks, maybe months? Then work on the current relics that will come in 3.1. Why does everything in this game have to be nerfed? Why do they insist on diminishing the value of seeing those items? Before someone mentions epeen, yes this is a matter of epeen, so what?

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

There's no valid points here. At all. It's not a matter of what is agreeing and disagreeing. It's people expressing a desire for a different sub-genre of MMO than FFXIV has chosen to be. There's no headway to be had there in discussion.

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No MMO has 100% horizontal or vertical progression. Only because someone asks for more of this or that doesn't make their opinion invalid.
Please don't act like you are the one who decides what is valid and what isn't. The discussion and feedback is here also for devs, who have the final say.

The same could be said about raiding, I think it's even more disrespectful that the Zeta weapons were better than the Dread weapons, considering it took player skill, time, effort and 7 other people with the same talent, not a boring grind that was the relic

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Well I wrote a long post in response, but that annoying daily limit killed it so I'm just going to attempt a TL;DR of it.

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You can always Edit your posts to bypass the limit. I do it all the time.

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Why can't relic weapons be that thing in this game? Is that too much to ask for?

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What thing, something to lord over someone else over? That's self explanatory. This game is designed, from the ground up, to be inclusive. Anything related to progression gets reduced down to Glamour gear once the progression tiers up, so that players who end up behind for one reason or another don't feel completely isolated away from Endgame and can feel as if they can jump in. ARR Relics now rely on dead content to achieve, so their progression and grind measures have been lessened in the same manner you would expect from any obselted endgame curve. Yet, people did not suddenly explode with a mass of Relics used and completed and glamoured everywhere. The few that value what they have will keep it, and it will mean much to them. Most others, will turn it in for the shortcut into the next relic. You're blowing the matter out of proportion.

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Don't like working on outdated content for weeks, maybe months? Then work on the current relics that will come in 3.1.

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Already going to be weeks, maybe months, because dated content is dated.

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Why does everything in this game have to be nerfed?

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Cause it gets old and they want people to not be appalled when approaching dated content.

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Why do they insist on diminishing the value of seeing those items? Before someone mentions epeen, yes this is a matter of epeen, so what?

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So, your epeen isn't as valuable as someone else's subscription. And that's the hard deciding factor here. They want players to feel included not excluded. This isn't just epeen as it is special snowflake syndrome. You want to lord over others and that sort of demeanor is directly contrary to the message this game is trying to convey.

The truth of the matter is, those kind of people are addicts, who crave recognition. They know they can keep you here by keeping the content ahead of you challenging. The carrot will always be there, ahead of you. Your achievement is ephemeral and always was, even in Horizontal endgame. This game does away with much of the lie of that while actively and transparently deciding to value the wider player base.

You want to be special, keep ahead of the curve. That's a long term goal with a strong since of achievement. There's no rest for the wicked here.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

No MMO has 100% horizontal or vertical progression. Only because someone asks for more of this or that doesn't make their opinion invalid.
Please don't act like you are the one who decides what is valid and what isn't. The discussion and feedback is here also for devs, who have the final say.

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You're free to be delusional if you wish. I have decided nothing. I'm just stating what is. After a year of constant griping and complaints, SE has elected to fully stand by the approach and promises they made at the very beginning of 2.0.

You're correct in saying there are no 100% horizontal or vertical progressions. However the horizontal components of this game have been deliberatly kept on the casual end of the game and have nothing to do with progression intentionally, and are as seen by the developers as part of its core design.

You may as well be asking for a different game at this point ,because that's what the demands amount to. Again, there are no valid points here, just people being contrarian to what's already been discussed and responded to.

Definition of Insanity applies here.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

snip

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I mean the daily post limit, guess it's saying I should be less active on this forum.

But anyway, I'm likely not going to post on this subject anymore as I've you've blown my argument out of the water, and changed the way I view it, rather than just claiming it should be nerfed because it's old content and that's that.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I mean the daily post limit, guess it's saying I should be less active on this forum.

But anyway, I'm likely not going to post on this subject anymore as I've you've blown my argument out of the water, and changed the way I view it, rather than just claiming it should be nerfed because it's old content and that's that.

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Another way of viewing it is the view the art of war in real life. Gone are the days when a finely crafted weapon was designed to stand the test of wear and time. And most of those only existed in mythology anyways. Weapons are constantly redesigned, re-evaluated looked at scientifically and practically, to improve, to become more effective than its previous iteration.

And the Relic quest line very much embodies that. Masked under the veil of trying to recreate a Relic of Olde, your character is set on a quest to constantly redefine, improve, redesign the weapon they currently have. And when we begin the new Relic line, we are going to approach that again.

I'm going to make a speculative call here and say that the new Relic Weapon quest-line gives people with a completed Zeta a head start because they'll be working off the weapon they created as a reference point to improve upon.

But the reproduction of the older weapons? They're going to be easier to make now that the pioneering process of it is finished. Production of it will be refined, it will be capable of being mass produced. It's a side effect of the War Machine. Indelible legends becoming General Issue. That's why it's important to stay ahead.

No one here is trolling. My FC has nothing to do with it and these personal attacks are kinda corny. I enjoy grinding when its rewarding I have no desire in dedicating time into something that will be unrewarding in a videogame just because some new generation can't handle the type of progression games like EQ FFXI among others offered. The idea of feeling you earned and acheived something should be equal for all not some way of disrespect like it now that stuff gets nerfed from left to right. Every other weapon in the game can be acheived the easy way even the ones you buy with currency. Its just one lousy thing to leave untouched to make it feel rewarding and only people who are willing to spend gil and timesink it can get it and not this horrid just because you pay for a subscription its now a glamour weapon instead because of new content.
The weapon itself should have kept growing this new chapter if its gonna give a new weapon is a pure disrespect towards anyone who bothered.
If everyone else spent millions of gils and spent countless hours and tries doing a dungeon over and over again why should you get a handout? This content could have been untouched and could have been something for thoese who really desire this instead of oh didnt you know? New MMORPGS that get updated everything gets old. It does not have to be this way. So yea I still blame Yoshi P for not using some elements from FFXI. Gears from FFXI could be upgraded why is it so hard to keep a tiny portion of this alive in FFXIV?
You can buy an i200 weapon with eoterics. You can get a group and learn primals or savage or whatever for new weapons even overmelding weapons all these things are faster to obtain than a relic so why cant you just leave this one damn thing alone and let it be as it is? Everything else but the relic here can get mega nerfed with everything else that gets released why cant one damn segment of a game just have some sort of horizontal progression? Is it really too much to ask when everything else is Vertical?

"You can buy an i200 weapon with eoterics. You can get a group and learn primals or savage or whatever for new weapons even overmelding weapons all these things are faster to obtain than a relic so why cant you just leave this one damn thing alone and let it be as it is?"

It's a tedious grind dude. It takes no effort whatsoever, it's mashing your head into the keyboard until you get something, and the reason people do the relic is because they can't "just get a weapan and learn savage or whatever"

It takes way more effort to raid than it ever did to do a relic quest, and raiding got nerfed and got echo, for everyone. It's the way the game worked. Relic progression didn't even get that nerfed, if you wanna show off a senseless grind, then go do the bullshit achievements that give you titles if you want to show off, if you're talking about integrity for the game, you should consider all aspects, not just relics cause you're too bad to do anything else but bitch on the forums.

Effort should be proportional to the rewards. When the Relic Weapons were relevant, the reward you got was one of the best weapons in the game. But now? It's just glamour, so it's only fitting that the amount of effort required to get it be reduced to match what you're getting out of it.

There is literally no reason to make players go through the entire Relic questline as it was in its heyday when all they're getting out of it is a pretty shiny for dressup.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Effort should be proportional to the rewards. When the Relic Weapons were relevant, the reward you got was one of the best weapons in the game. But now? It's just glamour, so it's only fitting that the amount of effort required to get it be reduced to match what you're getting out of it.

There is literally no reason to make players go through the entire Relic questline as it was in its heyday when all they're getting out of it is a pretty shiny for dressup.

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Agree, but just want to add:

People wouldn't even be doing the grind we did in the heydays if things weren't nerfed. The dungeons, the trials, the atma farming, the alexandrite farming, the light farming, the dungeon drop for zodiac, everything about the relic quest would be exponentially more difficult in 3.0 then it was when each step was current and all of it for a glamour item.

And not to mention that ridiculous point Skizzle likes to make about all the gil people put into it. There was no massive required gil sink and the npc items were reasonably cheap. If players spent millions of gil on their materia that was on them for not wanting to spirit-bond, as well as their realm's economy! Compared to when the novus was the latest craze, the prices of IVs are a joke! Are you going to demand that the economy re-adjust itself so that players doing the nerfed relics have to dish out massive amounts of gil? Not that someone doing the relic now for glamour (because that is all its worth) would even care about the stats on the thing!

It is funny that so many say that the relic is for casuals, when at least 3/5 to 4/5 of the players I've seen with completed relics are hardcore raiders. Most casuals didn't have the time or gil to grind the relic all the way.

During 2.x, a lot of people had Zenith weapons because it was cake. Very few got to Novus, Nexus or Zenith. Of the few, I'd bet most were raiders. Relic was BiS for short periods and many raiders used it.

Edit to add: I know several casuals that QUIT THE GAME because of the relic quest: two at the Atma stage (prenerf), three at the Alexandrite stage (prenerf).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Ok, seriously...what part of "irrelevant items now" did you not understand ?

Or, you're naive enough so that you think items in the first year of an MMO will always be useful ?

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They COULD be useful, though. Going back to FFXI, the Relic weapons and Artifact gear were how many years old? You got Artifact gear at levels 52, 54, 56, 58, and 60 while the Artifact weapon was Lv 40 (Relic weapon was Lv75). The Level cap on jobs were 75 for a long time before Lv80 became the cap in 2010, with upgrade to your Relic weapon and Artifact gear being in 2013.

Jim_Berry: This is why vertical progression sucks. Artifact Armor are good for how long here? 3 hours fategrinding in northern thanalan? Good Job Yoshi P Good Job! Thats what happens when you level too fast you have handouts from left to right and try so hard to cater to one of the disloyal customer groups that will just jump to the next mmorpg for the love of money while killing the heart of the game. Lets hope Yoshi P wakes up someday. Maybe when Blizzards new MMORPG comes out or something.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

They COULD be useful, though. Going back to FFXI, the Relic weapons and Artifact gear were how many years old?

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In FFXI, Artifact was crap at 75, EXCEPT, for the only specific boost to one of your spell/ability.

So, you got it, in your inventory, use a macro to swap gear for one cast, then switch back to your far more powerful lvl 75 gear.
Weren't you able to gear swap in combat, your Artifact gear would have gathered dust for years.

And relics become useless as soon as the level cap increased. But, of course, they designed ways to improve them, so that all the time you spent wasn't for nothing.
Yet, they relained far less powerful than their Empyrean counterpart (With a few exception), even though Empyrean Weapons were far less time consuming.

What you are saying is that your time spent on getting the relics is worth more than those who had to work together to beat coil. At least that's how it reads, you don't seem to understand that relics were designed as an alternative, non-endgame like route to obtain a strong weapon that leveled up alongside you.

Another thing you neglect is what exactly were the options for weapons during 2.0. Most weapons from 2.0 either came from coil, a combination of coil+tome or extreme primals. Not everyone wanted to do primals, not everyone wanted to do coil, not everyone was able to do coil to obtain the requirement to obtain the weapon, so where did that leave people, relics.

Let's use Ninja for example, from 100-135 these were the options.

-Yoshimatsu Animus/Atma=100 ((RELIC))

-Tidal Wave Kris=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 80+)) Weapons + Mirror

-Thundersparks=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 85+)) Drop

-Weather Vajras=100 10 tokens aka 650 soldiery + 1 unidentifited allagan tome ((came from coil first then later tower))

-Yoshimatsu Novus=100 ((RELIC))

-Vajras=110 Sands of time from Coil, then tower, then hunts, tower/hunts think were at the same time

-Wootz Daggers=110 ((CRAFT))

-True Ice Dagger=110 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Drop

-Diamond Daggers=115 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Trade weapon + 5 Diamond dust which dropped from fight

-Yoshimatsu Nexus=115 ((RELIC))

-High Allagan Cleavers=115 (( Second Coil Last Boss potential Drop))

-Ironworks Magitek Daggers=120 10 tokens/ 1300 poetics + encrypted tomestone which came from coil first, then a weekly quest reward from doing all three towers

-Sasuke's Blades=125 ((RELIC))

-Augmented Ironworks Magitek Daggers=130 Weapon + Carbontwine Drop from coil, then laster added as weekly quest reward to tower and also hunts

-Sasuke's Blades Zeta=135 ((RELIC))

-Dreadwyrm Daggers=135 Final Coil Boss

See as a relic holder, you become ignorant towards how hard it was to acquire a decent weapon unless you did coil, or you did primals, by doing Relic you said to yourself, I see a path in front of me, and once i finish all these objectives I"m guaranteed my prize.

With Primal Extremes it's needing people to tackle the content, hoping your weapon drops and grinding for an unknown time til it drops. The same with coil, but for coil it's even worse, because the weapon from the coil bosses themselves were just one try a week, if you beat the boss and didn't get the weapon better luck next week but you could get a token that could be used to get a weapon that was slightly worse than what the boss could drop.

With that in mind, there was nothing wrong with the relic progression, it was good for those who didn't want to spam extremes or do coil and it served it's purpose for 2.0.

Imagine 2.0 if you didn't go for relic, and look I"ll make it easy for you, this would be the reality of it.


-Tidal Wave Kris=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 80+)) Weapons + Mirror

-Thundersparks=100 ((Primal Extreme IL 85+)) Drop

-Weather Vajras=100 10 tokens aka 650 soldiery + 1 unidentifited allagan tome ((came from coil first then later tower))

-Vajras=110 Sands of time from Coil, then tower, then hunts, tower/hunts think were at the same time

-Wootz Daggers=110 ((CRAFT))

-True Ice Dagger=110 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Drop

-Diamond Daggers=115 ((Primal Extreme IL 95+)) Trade weapon + 5 Diamond dust which dropped from fight

-High Allagan Cleavers=115 (( Second Coil Last Boss potential Drop))

-Ironworks Magitek Daggers=120 10 tokens/ 1300 poetics + encrypted tomestone which came from coil first, then a weekly quest reward from doing all three towers

-Augmented Ironworks Magitek Daggers=130 Weapon + Carbontwine Drop from coil, then laster added as weekly quest reward to tower and also hunts

-Dreadwyrm Daggers=135 Final Coil Boss

If you notice your options are, do Primals and spam hoping they drop, or doing coil and hoping you get the allagan/encrypted tome depending on which patch you were in. Relics don't sound that bad now do they?

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Originally Posted by Deviant1

I have to love all the ffxi bashing i see. There are a lot of systems that were in ffxi that are still miles ahead of ffxiv: AH, Mog housing, merit points, gear, abilities, and job distinguishing features. Not even to mention that it is what going on its 12th year or something like that?

How many games can honestly say they have that type of player retention with a multi-million subscriber count game as their competition? Even in the best of WOW times, ffxi still had customers bringing in the money, so there cant be anything good there... lol

With relics, tomestones, and now scrips the line between which is more grindy in ffxi vs ffxiv is getting blurred.

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EverQuest.

Older than FFXI by a long shot. And it's still going.

I am torn between the two options the Devs have:
1. If they make the leveling process even longer to have us working on stuff longer. What if we were just now getting to level 55?? Would people like that, or not? Not sure what I think as of right now.
2. Keep things that way they are now and because of how good most of us are at leveling and time we can put in we out gear our gear so fast that we cannot even get the whole set before we are on to the next one and her is an example of what I mean.
I am leveling Dragoon right now and am at level 56 with like 200k xp to go before I start running "The Vault" and working on new gear. Well I still have not got my weapon drop from the Aery and like 4-5 other pieces. Something is wrong with how fast we can level...but at the same time I like the quick leveling because I level EVERYTHING and if it took too long per character I would never be able to do them all.
So as far as the Relic goes I just wish that it stayed relevant and we kept working on the same one. Still waiting to see what this "head start" is they are going to give us for completing the ZETA but it probably is not going to be worth the time we put in although I really hope it is a good reward for finishing it, that would be good on them for the dedication that people had to do it.
It is not just that we wanted the weapons but wanted something else to do and level and occupy our time...that is what an MMO is all about right...do different stuff every day if we want to keep up engaged and playing more.

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Originally Posted by Airget

With Primal Extremes it's needing people to tackle the content, hoping your weapon drops and grinding for an unknown time til it drops. The same with coil, but for coil it's even worse, because the weapon from the coil bosses themselves were just one try a week, if you beat the boss and didn't get the weapon better luck next week

If you notice your options are, do Primals and spam hoping they drop, or doing coil and hoping you get the allagan/encrypted tome depending on which patch you were in. Relics don't sound that bad now do they?

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Not really, spamming ex primals was a hundred times easier and more interesting than grinding relic. Despite your long list, the only difficult things on it are the coil bosses.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

In FFXI, Artifact was crap at 75, EXCEPT, for the only specific boost to one of your spell/ability.

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The Artifact gear, when Reforged, wasn't crap.

Here is NIN Artifact legs:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20090217072050

Then, NIN Artifact legs when upgraded (Reforged):
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140211014429

And finally, NIN Artifact legs upgraded again (Reforged +1):
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140712162112

I don't know about you, but going from Artifact to Reforged +1 isn't crap, in my opinion. My argument isn't about Lv75 gear. It's about obtaining gear that was hard work to get and being able to upgrade it rather than toss it each time a new patch release. Obtaining gear via upgrades makes non-raiders like myself have a Gear Goal rather than being judged because we're not able to spam the end-game content for the other Gear.

Jim Berry thank you for helping people see it. Yoshi P announced how the relics are gonna look in the recent thread of 3.1. Its a continued repeat he pretty ruined the relics sadly. He still has the final call in this. There is no way in hell im investing more time and gil and this unrewarding disrespectful relic system.
Its only a matter of time now its showing. Look at other threads. This expansion was supposed to be how Yoshi would show us how him and his dev team are capable of and we get these lulz instead. Continue to cater to casuals only and ruin the heart of the game by all means just do it. This game has no longevity and I will continue to wait it out. I honestly feel happy if the company looses subscribers to wow because focus is on current hypetrain instead of having a longterm customer group.

To answer you below Nadirah: No one wants a new FFXI for the 403804538504 time have you been reading the thread or just intentionally ignoring it? This weapon does not have to be some shiny it could be the weapon you grow with. Everything else you can get just leave this unturned. People invested a huge amount of gil and time getting multiple relics too because they love the grind and the game and I speak for ALOT of players who really thought this was going to be the "reward" that makes you stand out from others a bit pretty much like people who do Alex Savage they stick out more than others. Why is that such a big problem to reward you instead of punishing you and disrespecting you all for the love of casuals to catch up? Catch up buying your damn esoterics weapons if you must or go do ravanna ex 10 times or overmeld your weapon. If you truly want a relic with your own prefered stats work for it. Not work for it so 6 months later Yoshi P decides he only wants to cater to lazy gamers and intentionally telling you pretty much "Oh you pay for a subscription? Here have everything everyone else took time to learn mechanics on, grind gil to get or devoted time to get because here in FFXIV its a Communism Reborn everyone gets a relic because you pay for a Subscription"

Truth or not I didnt sign up for this nonsense and many other didnt either. Only reason I'm even here speaking up is because most of the players who share my mentality gave up hope because they feel their voice wont be heard and they are ignored by Yoshi P who claims he cares about the 1.0 players who kept the game alive as the new ones and funny enough its only the new consumers he cares about. Its a damn shame seeing him milking this game as much as possible for 4-5 before the next MMORPG trend comes and he will loose subscribers. I just hope this time comes even faster.

Its not even about two years its about making this weapon enjoyable that is why its called a relic make it enjoyable fun and rewarding not a slap to the face with disrespectful nerfs so everyone can get one. Just add lights to new areas and new dungeons aswell keep the process the same with the droprates etc why should you get a silly handout when players went through the frustration and horrible droprates in dungeons that took 20-30 minutes that people did 40-50 time and even more just because you pay for a subscription? That shows how lazy and sad this new gamer generation is, you want everything that everyone else has in this game for half the effort. Its not your fault anyways its Yoshi P and the dev team calling these horrible decisions that makes this even possible for the "casuals".

Dude. You had two years of use out of it. That's longer than most MMOs give you out of an epic weapon, and in some games, they're class specific and only one of them so if you played a mage in wow looking for a legendary in Wrath, tough shit!

We can go on for days about how it all works, but in the end:

This isn't FFXI
This game is entirely vertical in progression
You *will* outgrow your shinies eventually

If these truths bother you so much, go back to FFXI. It's still going.

Outgrow my shinys vs continue making shiny expand evolve look different? So wich one of us is the lazy player who doesn't want to start from square 1 but wants to be with me on square 5 just because you pay for a subscription and I'm the selfish one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Outgrow my shinys vs continue making shiny expand evolve look different? So wich one of us is the lazy player who doesn't want to start from square 1 but wants to be with me on square 5 just because you pay for a subscription and I'm the selfish one?

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Well you are the selfish one since you want to force people to do absolutely tedious tasks for a useless weapon, even though you didn't have to do all those tedious task for a useless weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

My argument isn't about Lv75 gear.

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The problem with your argument is that is was false for YEARS even in FFXI, and people are already bitching in FFXIV only 2 months after release and even before knowing anything about the new relics.

And let me quote myself again, for all those people blindly claiming that FFXI was great because it never nerfed relic tasks:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Dynamis first version :
- Cost 1 million gils to enter each time
- Could only enter once every 72 hours
- Need a full Linkshell to clear
- Had an abysmal drop rate for ancient currency, especially major ones

Present Dynamis :
- Cost 50kgils for a key item granting permanent access
- Can enter once every day
- Mobs can be soloed at lvl 90, a party of 75 can kill them and they even give XP.
- Each mob can be "proced" with a spell/skill/weapon skill (depending on type and hour) to ensure a currency drop, even a major currency drop if you manage to obtain a white proc

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Yep...no nerf...ever

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Jim_Berry: This is why vertical progression sucks.

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Aw. That's great. Go to a horizontal game then. Bye.

You are acting like this Nerf happened two weeks after FFXI got released. All thoese nerfs came after Abyssea almost 8 years into FFXI. The drastic changes had to be taken to keep players interested in FFXI and keep people to pay so you can have this FFXIV A Communism for Casuals 2.0 Rekin heavensward Reborn.
If you cant figure that part out for yourself then thats your loss. Before that everything was a grind and rewarding. That is why alot of people say I would play FFXI pre abyssea. Here due to this horrible vertical progression and catering to casuals only we are stuck with this so your arguments are not good enough imo.

Why should everyone else not do the same struggle everyone else went through to obtain the item? Again same reply you can leave one thing as it is since everything else is a vertical progression let people enjoy a damn relic. I got 5 of them the struggle way you mean to tell me casuals cant get 1 the same path we did?

Players who still dont agree with that I find them selfish and toxic towards the community. Its these type of players who feel like they are entitled to everything you have with 0 effort because its outdated. Its Yoshi Ps fault anyways not yours or anyone else for having this insane gaming mentality thats beyond horrible. I trully hope that Blizzard just releases their damn MMORPG soon so Yoshi P and SE can get burned and go back to the drawing board and get it right.
Everyone who supports gaming mentality of lazyness and "outdated" should be outdated instead of finding stuff enjoyable and keeping something worthwhile can might aswell encourage and suggest SE that we can hire SE staff members to level our chars and do our relics since you enjoy so much handouts and lazyness whats the point right? Its gonna get outdated anyways and everyone should be able to catch up?

Asierid: I'm not going anywhere actually. I love this game and the community some things can still be saved. If you truly want handouts just continue your gameplay your own way it wont be affected anyways and leave us who want some sort enjoyment and reward alone.