i100 and i110 gear no longer special

Im going home later to do T1 and if i dont see T13 drops at the end. I riot. That's how I feel about the rank elimination of the animal gear.

I keep seeing people post saying 'Oh well, they'll still have to grind the marks out to buy the sets so at least queues will be good for a while'
But did no one actually check the pricing? It's just salt in the wound to be honest, dropping the cost of the items to just 2k marks.

I've played PVP for awhile now... and I'm gonna have to say, while the hard work being wasted sucks.. you all seriously need to calm down a bit here.

I LOVE Frontlines, Secure is wonderful, Slaughter is better, especially ESPECIALLY in 72-man. But my problem is... the rewards for low raking just kinda sucked. I wound up playing it for the fun of it, but eventually I stopped because que times longer than 15mins... are not worth the time. I've got other stuff to do that is more productive.

I still want those mounts though, and my goal was those wonderful PVP sets, but now seeing I can spend tons of Wolf marks on them.... jesus christ YES. The rank removal was great to me, you know why? Because you actually get something GOOD for SUFFERING THE QUE TIMES AND PLAYING THE MATCHES.



Wolves Den and Frontlines isn't country club.. get that in your skulls.

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I LOVE Frontlines, Secure is wonderful

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Yeah secure was great

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Slaughter is better

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I, er...excuse me?

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especially ESPECIALLY in 72-man

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I need an adult Q_Q

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Originally Posted by S-Star

I wound up playing it for the fun of it, but eventually I stopped because que times longer than 15mins... are not worth the time. I've got other stuff to do that is more productive.

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You do realize this was literally all of us initially too? But you know what we -persevered- we gave up spending our time doing other things in order to rank up.
As someone who claims to know the suffering to the long queues and taxing amount of games required to rank even a little - Then understanding we are upset by having our little bit of prestige and something to show for our efforts being taken away, really should not be hard.
If you do not understand, I honestly wouldn't really know what to say to you.
But it is in rather poor taste to express your feelings in a way that holds negativity towards the dedicated pvp crowd, when you could've simply expressed how it positively affects people at lower ranks without having a dig.

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Originally Posted by Valnyr

You do realize this was literally all of us initially too? But you know what we -persevered- we gave up spending our time doing other things in order to rank up.
As someone who claims to know the suffering to the long queues and taxing amount of games required to rank even a little - Then understanding we are upset by having our little bit of prestige and something to show for our efforts being taken away, really should not be hard.
If you do not understand, I honestly wouldn't really know what to say to you.
But it is in rather poor taste to express your feelings in a way that holds negativity towards the dedicated pvp crowd, when you could've simply expressed how it positively affects people at lower ranks without having a dig.

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So a bad system should stay bad because you had to do it?

No, I am saying that people will be upset and there is good reason for that.
This evening I spoke with a group of players who all started PVP this week for the first time - the glamours being their incentive to partake. It seems they attain a rank of around mid-twenties and have to play 50 games+ (with an approx 50% win ratio) on their way to obtaining the glamour set of gear. Also, I've been tracking my queues times over the past few days, although the Average wait time numbers seem as looming as ever 'More than 30m' the queues in fact are ranging between 8-20 mins which is no longer than you'd have to wait for a spot in DF for any dungeon as a DPS. Many of the players from the group expressed their interest to continue to try and rank up beyond 20 now that they are well on their way and their participation is certainly helping with getting games going, no doubt about it.
Though the point bought up earlier; is it a long-term fix? No. That's something still needing to be seen to.

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Originally Posted by Timat

So a bad system should stay bad because you had to do it?

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You mean the gc restriction system which caused our grind to be so long and the one thing we have requested completely ignored?

I'm one of the players people are insulting in this thread. I see merit in both SE's extremist action and the PvP'ers extremist hatred. I also see flaws:
-Morale needs to become relevant again, as it is -the- pvp stat. Rebalance it, do something with it... but make it relevant.
-Stepping stones. New players need a stepping stone to start hteir progress in PvP. A set that does not have requirements but is not so far behind in ilvl that makes itself be useless. A set with a relevant pvp stat + some material. I believe this one shouldn't have rank.
-All other subsequent sets should have an appropriate rank, that is not the previous maximum rank. Hell, even if you'd just put each piece available to buy after each x ranks. That would give a progression cadence into a better pvp gear with more relevant stats for PvP. This gives various stepping stones up into higher and higher armors.

Give a fishing pole and bait to a man. Don't give him the fish.

I am confused on why everyone is so angry, This is the normal progression with expansions.

Add expansion make all old content a joke to do / get so people who actually wanna still / need to do it can with ease since most people are not any more. This same argument could be thrown around in the terms of "Well I had to run X raid over and over to get X set of gear but now that you can lvl to 60 a group of 3 people can run in like morons and get what i had to work for."

if anything as it has been stated the hard core pvp community should take this as a small blessing you reel people in to do a few matches with low cost old gear so the 30-40 min Q times dont seem so bad when they only need to do a few frontlines and then hey turns out they really enjoy it and continue. Sure this wont be the case for a majority but if this change even brings in a few hundred more people on each data center to do PvP more frequently its a win for everyone.

Time to get me that caster robe with a tail. In your face pvpers! :D

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

Right... the people with prior experience with that are the ones with the 'must have prior clear title to join party or I kick you' party finders for FCOB, and yet they can still solo queue for Frontlines and not even try to learn how to succeed, and get rewards anyway. But if you're in the reverse situation- a PVP pro looking for more practical experience to clear raid content, good luck getting it without paying for it.

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Perhaps you should'nt look into pf for farmgroups of other ppl, instead open your own pf with "kill/practise"? Are you one of these guys, who wait for a farmgroup to appear, then join and go by "I got till xyz%, can I join, pls?" instead of opening/joining a killgroup?

And lol, i did about 5 killgroups just for fun since 3.0... one time I killed Bahamut with 3 friends for 4 ppl, who never were in T13 at all and never saw a guide. It was two tries, then they got their kill:
Only one add in second phase (which is burned in 4s where it spawns), 5-10s downtime minimum between every single spawn in add phase, no tank-LB necessary (or available), first Akh Morn can be tanked single or with a melee, nobody cares.

Practical experience to clear raid content at lvl60, which was designed for lvl50, lol. As a dps, T13 has about 3 mechanics (Megaflare, Earthshaker, Balls+Rage) to care about and some squishy adds. Tanks got a bit more.

I would never ever pay more than 10k gil for a t13 kill (think it was several millions in 2.x). Just get some ppl who want their glamour.
Or get some ppl who didn't kill it yet for training/kill, because T13 in 3.0 is more easy than T5 was in 2.x or maybe than Alexander 4 normal is now (in terms of insta-wipe-mechanics, damage you get and damage you have to do).

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Originally Posted by Tensu

I am confused on why everyone is so angry, This is the normal progression with expansions....

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This isn't PvE progression. It's PvP, with ranks. Where everyone starts at 1 no matter what. I don't understand how you people don't get that this hurts the PvP community. It used to be that if people wanted pretty gear, they had to grind for it, therefore keeping PvP going. Now people will get the gear in a week or two and bail. We'll be dead in the water in a month.

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Originally Posted by Ocyrith

This isn't PvE progression. It's PvP, with ranks. Where everyone starts at 1 no matter what. I don't understand how you people don't get that this hurts the PvP community. It used to be that if people wanted pretty gear, they had to grind for it, therefore keeping PvP going. Now people will get the gear in a week or two and bail. We'll be dead in the water in a month.

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Then pvp needs more of a hook to keep people interested....instead of just a forced grind.

Honestly. With the getting 40 (I would increase it to 25/25 to make it 50) esotetics for the daily I would make this change worldwide. You still need A ton of tokens to get the new gear.

I would have them require a mix of Tomestones of Law and Wolf Marks.

- Do not remove Ranks, however let them unlock PvP abilities and PvP only stats.
- Remove PvP stats from all PvP gear, let ranks have/get that.
- Remove Rank Requirement from PvP Gear.

Also remove accuracy from PvP gear, make it uniquely stated and allow it to be upgraded to ilvl 195 with hunt/law.

If you did that, and removed Grand Company requirements you would get 10 times more people wanting to PvP. Rank is now NOT required for gear but MAKES you awesome because it gives you an advantage over other players in combat.

It is still a LOT of marks for that appearance gear.

Yeah I agree, weighty - I even switched my title to the rank 45 pvp-one (even though I dont like it) >.<

I maybe would have been fine with this if we got new, awesome looking sets - but nope... and even though someone can argue if the old/new sets look cool or not (hello to the person who didnt liked scholar/smn-gear - I'm a proud golden elk!) no one can argue that we got less sets this time - something that bothers me a lot! Two sets for 4 casters (or well, one set but two colors, awesome!); one for three tanks (+the dragoon-one which is more or less the same...); one for two ranged; and well, the other two melees got re-colored version of each other - good job!

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Originally Posted by Ocyrith

This isn't PvE progression. It's PvP, with ranks. Where everyone starts at 1 no matter what. I don't understand how you people don't get that this hurts the PvP community. It used to be that if people wanted pretty gear, they had to grind for it, therefore keeping PvP going. Now people will get the gear in a week or two and bail. We'll be dead in the water in a month.

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Who said just pve progression thats how it goes in games with pvp progression in expansions also. Look at wow once a new season hits not even a new expansion all the old high end conquest gear turns into bargain bin honor gear that you can grind out in a day or so. I realize people wanna be pretty unique snowflakes but that's what the new gear is for that is your new pedestal prize that you and only the other people who grinned up to rank 50 can wear.

I hate to be so blunt but that's about all I am hearing in this, People are mad that they cannot be the only ones who wear that gear anymore again look at it from the other angles also what about al the high end raiders who had to invest months of time to clear raids to get the best gear in the game and with the new lvl and ability to run it unsynced a group of people can go though and clear it with relative ease

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Originally Posted by Timat

Then pvp needs more of a hook to keep people interested....instead of just a forced grind.

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The PvP is the hook for the PvPers. The pretty gear was the hook to make PvErs grind the PvP to give our community some longevity.

This happens in every MMO that isn't dedicated PvP. WAR and DAOC had hopping PvP because they were MMOs sold on their PvP premise. Guild Wars as well (not sure about 2). But even WoW has the problem of slow queue times. Of only seeing the same set of people when you hop into a battleground. They literally just introduced a merc system to try to alleviate it.

Most people don't actually like PvP, or if they do, they decide why bother wasting my time waiting around when I can just play Dota2 or something with nearly instant pops?

SE refuses to listen to us, and have now given away our best identifiers and rewards only to replace them with lackluster ones. We went from having unique animal themed sets to things shared between roles. They're not terrible sets, I quite like everything but the ranged ones, but not everyone feels that way and they're definitely not anywhere close to what we had before. They've spit in our face with this patch.

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Originally Posted by Tensu

Who said just pve progression thats how it goes in games with pvp progression in expansions also. Look at wow once a new season hits not even a new expansion all the old high end conquest gear turns into bargain bin honor gear that you can grind out in a day or so. I realize people wanna be pretty unique snowflakes but that's what the new gear is for that is your new pedestal prize that you and only the other people who grinned up to rank 50 can wear.

I hate to be so blunt but that's about all I am hearing in this, People are mad that they cannot be the only ones who wear that gear anymore again look at it from the other angles also what about al the high end raiders who had to invest months of time to clear raids to get the best gear in the game and with the new lvl and ability to run it unsynced a group of people can go though and clear it with relative ease

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You literally ignored my entire point to focus on something you've made up that you find easier to argue.

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Originally Posted by Ocyrith

You literally ignored my entire point to focus on something you've made up that you find easier to argue.

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A: how was anything I said made up? So your saying the game has not progressed to where the weekly capped tomes and stuff went to a much easier to obtain non capped currency that anyone could grind out in a day? That is exactly what you are arguing. You had to put time and effort into obtaining something that now anyone can get with no effort IE: what would take someone 2 weeks to get (old poetic capped chest piece) I can now get in a few runs of a raid that takes maybe 15 min max

B: That was about all you said in your post, What everyone starts at rank 1? What does that have to do with anything Or was your point that people will simply do a couple front lines get the 10k to buy the gear with no rank then ditch PVP? Cause guess what I am willing to bet a months sub that those people would of never done PVP to begin with so all its doing is helping your pvp q's by giving you a surge of players who are simply doing it from time to time for the glamour. Is your issue that these "Pve casuals" will ruin your pvp experience by running around playing TDM? Guess what I bet most the people who are even high ranks even do this cause its what they enjoy.

So please explain to me how making some non relevant gear not take a pvp rank is going to kill the pvp, As I have said if anything its only going to help in the long run cause 1 of 2 things are going to happen, The people are gonna play frontlines for a week or so get there gear and be done with it and your glorious pvp will go back to normal or hey who knows maybe those people will do it enjoy it then actually continue to pvp even after to get ranks and get the more relevant gear.

And to your other point, PvP Is not a hook to PvP if a game has shit PvP people will not flock to it and play it just cause it has PvP if that was the case no MMO would fail as they all have PvP, You know what good PvP games actully do thrive? The ones with PvP that is good / has hooks and other interesting things that make you wanna do it and I hate to break it to you but a hook of "Come play our Meh PvP (Cause lets not lie to ourselves the PvP in this game is not the greatest it has allot of issues) for hour and hours on end sitting in endless q's to one day be able to buy a set of gear that is worse in the frontlines you will always be in then the gear you can get in PvE!" Is a pretty shit hook you can say I am wrong all you want but the game itself proves this fact by how you yourself are even fighting how small the actual PvP community is so clearly the pvp can not be that great or else more people would do it.

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Originally Posted by Tensu

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Now you're literally just bringing up points I've already addressed in the previous post.

You said "so what pve progression is like this so pvp progression should be too". I'm telling you it isn't because ranks exist. Now that the prime reason for ranks to exist (because if you're anywhere near halfway decent, you'd know that the other things ranks offer, points for abilities, are nearly useless except for in a few very rare cases) is gone, like I've repeated sixty different times, people will PvP for all of two weeks then leave.

Also it's hilarious that you call the 110 gear non relevant when all pvp gear is irrelevant right now. Morale is useless. All it is is aesthetics. All it was was a beacon to show us that there were PvPers around. Now it's being worn by people like you who don't deserve it, and only care about justifying themselves having because they feel attacked instead of the PvP community as a whole (hey look I can make assumptions on your reasonings too).

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Originally Posted by Tensu

And to your other point, PvP Is not a hook to PvP if a game has shit PvP people will not flock to it and play it just cause it has PvP if that was the case no MMO would fail as they all have PvP, You know what good PvP games actully do thrive?

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Originally Posted by Ocyrith

This happens in every MMO that isn't dedicated PvP. WAR and DAOC had hopping PvP because they were MMOs sold on their PvP premise. Guild Wars as well (not sure about 2). But even WoW has the problem of slow queue times. Of only seeing the same set of people when you hop into a battleground. They literally just introduced a merc system to try to alleviate it.

Most people don't actually like PvP, or if they do, they decide why bother wasting my time waiting around when I can just play Dota2 or something with nearly instant pops?

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Neat.

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Originally Posted by Ocyrith

Also it's hilarious that you call the 110 gear non relevant when all pvp gear is irrelevant right now. Morale is useless. All it is is aesthetics. All it was was a beacon to show us that there were PvPers around. Now it's being worn by people like you who don't deserve it, and only care about justifying themselves having because they feel attacked instead of the PvP community as a whole (hey look I can make assumptions on your reasonings too).

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So your argument is "I dont want other people to have this useless thing that I worked for cause it looks pretty" Your made cause you like the look of the old gear over the new gear if you preferred the new gear over the old gear this whole argument would be non existent. This is the silliest thing I have heard in a MMO, You sound like a 2 year old yelling cause someone else got the cool happy meal toy and you get the barbie doll. Who is to say in a update they wont add another tier of gear that is better looking that will need rank 55, Would you be happy then? That you get to be the pretty snowflake that no one else can be? I see more people walking around with high end coil gear over pvp gear and you know why? Cause the people who hated pvp before are most likely not going to sit in the long q's even to get those 10k+ points

I have grinned ranks in pvp in other games Hell in vanilla wow I almost made it to high warlord guess what a expansion later you could buy that gear with no rank and simply needing a couple hundred honor points, Did I pout and throw a fit? No cause its how things worked there was a new set of gear that if I wanted to I could grind to get, was it as cool looking as the pigsticker? Hell no but it was something I could wear and show off what I accomplished and guess what they have that now also in the rank 45-50 gear. Its a MMO its art style will change from set to set and patch to patch you are gonna get sets of gear you like and other don't and vice versa. Again you don't see people bitching about how its bullshit that "filthy cazuls" are getting this easy lvl 50 poetic gear that they had to work for and all they have now for all the hard work they are putting in is this crummy looking esoteric gear" No you can bitch that new sets don't look as good as old and that fine its a matter of personal choice however if that's your issue make that your issue and not some other sob story Are you also going to make post if another expansion drops and they lower the EXP needed each lvl from say 1-50 to help new players catch up or remove some of the needed filler story quest to allow them to get to the more relevant content faster? Cause I mean hell back in your day you had to work for them levels and do all those boring missions where you ran aimlessly from npc A to npc B so they should also.

And before the "Oh that's not even what I am talking about!" at the base of your argument as I said it is, You are simply mad that you had to grind out hours of q's and matches to be able to wear a set of gear that people now can get with a fraction of the effort.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

Right... the people with prior experience with that are the ones with the 'must have prior clear title to join party or I kick you' party finders for FCOB, and yet they can still solo queue for Frontlines and not even try to learn how to succeed, and get rewards anyway. But if you're in the reverse situation- a PVP pro looking for more practical experience to clear raid content, good luck getting it without paying for it.

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It's stupidly faceroll now, it would take you about the same amount of time to learn and destroy t1-11 at least as it would to buy a set of i110. As one of those who spends far more time progressing in pve than playing pvp I can honestly say that this is how most raiders feel every time they release echo and you see players go in and rofl stomp content that took months of prog, I'll agree it's bs but this is the gear treadmill. I would probably be a lot more sympathetic if I thought this should mildly surprise anyone anymore.

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Originally Posted by LucentLagombi

It's stupidly faceroll now, it would take you about the same amount of time to learn and destroy t1-11 at least as it would to buy a set of i110. As one of those who spends far more time progressing in pve than playing pvp I can honestly say that this is how most raiders feel every time they release echo and you see players go in and rofl stomp content that took months of prog, I'll agree it's bs but this is the gear treadmill. I would probably be a lot more sympathetic if I thought this should mildly surprise anyone anymore.

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That's what I hear; I'll probably revisit it when I'm done with other things, it isn't a priority at the moment so I'm not worried about it. When I'm ready to revisit Coil I'll just go with a few friends who are more raid focused and do it with them. The main point of my post is that we can't make as much of a 100% correlation between coil gear vs PVP gear glamour availability now in the sense that some are trying to, because with one you can join, get the currency, and get the gear just by virtue of completing a match, and with automatic matchmaking that puts you in teams that don't require prior knowledge or clears. The other has a variety of gates involved, and maybe they're so low we can step over them vs have to struggle to climb them like so many before- I'm just saying the two are not as similar as some seem to think.

PvE'rs used to say Animal gear looked like trash and was stupid and dumb. Why? because it was gated behind content they are not comfortable with. Now that's its load-in4gears easy suddenly they runnin' around taking screenshots of themselves with it on, talkin about how cool it is now and whatnot. Interesting when its not gated so hard how things become cool to the PvE crowd. It's the classic case of bashing something they don't wanna work for then saying its cool when its handed to them for free - that really grinds my gears.

The thing that's really getting on my nerves is the villainizing of those who like the idea of things staying unique, calling it "special snow flake" and whatnot - its not about that ffs, that's just PvE'rs nerd rage lingo. Its about keeping the integrity of the game and community, and keeping the sense of accomplishment alive, but I guess that's a evil thing nowadays. Why didn't they just lower the rank requirement, make the i100 hand out free but keep the i110 stuff a small bit of rarity and uniqueness, hell even lowering to rank 30 or something, I mean just alittle bit of something to make people who equip it have a sense of accomplishment. Ah well whats done is done

I did my first time PvPing this week because I want the old PvP gear. I never PvPed before because the grind for that gear was to insane. Now I'll grind for the gear, get a few ranks, and honestly, I genuinly like the PvP so will be staying.

This will bring in new people. And since you'll have a nice many ranks once you get a full set of the PvP gear, it may keep them too since the grind to the 50's wont look so bad when you're already a good bit in.

This is a very, very good thing. People need to get off their high horse.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

PvE'rs used to say Animal gear looked like trash and was stupid and dumb. Why? because it was gated behind content they are not comfortable with. Now that's its load-in4gears easy suddenly they runnin' around taking screenshots of themselves with it on, talkin about how cool it is now and whatnot. Interesting when its not gated so hard how things become cool to the PvE crowd. It's the classic case of bashing something they don't wanna work for then saying its cool when its handed to them for free - that really grinds my gears.
The thing that's really getting on my nerves is the villainizing of those who like the idea of things staying unique, calling it "special snow flake" and whatnot - its not about that ffs, that's just PvE'rs nerd rage lingo. Its about keeping the integrity of the game and community, and keeping the sense of accomplishment alive, but I guess that's a evil thing nowadays. Why didn't they just lower the rank requirement, make the i100 hand out free but keep the i110 stuff a small bit of rarity and uniqueness, hell even lowering to rank 30 or something, I mean just alittle bit of something to make people who equip it have a sense of accomplishment. Ah well whats done is done

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There is a high likely hood that you are correct on a fraction of the players they might of had that "its not cool"high school attitude cause they could have it and used that as a shield cause they didn't wanna work to get it and now that its not to hard they are all for it, I however can say at least for my server / data center I have not seen anyone but maybe a handful of WAR walking around in the bear set of armor (And I will flat out say even owning the set I am not a huge fan of it, The massive shoulders, chest, helm, and tiny legs / boots makes me look like a upside down disproportionate pear) and maybe a pally here and there just rocking the helm.

However for the "villainizing" it is exactly that the issue is people who have / were working for the gear for all that time hate the idea that others can now get it easier and look that's fine but like I said you are gonna have to suck it up and put on your big boy pants and realize that's how things work in RL and even MMO life. Once new things are introduced old things go into the bargain bin so your once fancy armor is now bargain bin glamour and was replaced with the new rank 45-50 set. However like I have said the issue here that everyone is complaining about isnt even "Oh well these people get the armor we had to work for and once meant something" its in the core "These new armors look like crap and I dont wanna wear them but now I cant feel accomplished by simply wearing the set I like since now anyone can have it."

Question, Do you run out to game stop or send a e-mail to our lord gabben when some game you worked hours for to spend 60 of your hard earned dollars then goes on sale and someone else can then get that same thing for a fraction of the work / cost? I am gonna answer that for you with a No you don't. Do you bitch if you spend 60 bucks on a game and its amazing only to have a year later a PoS squeal release that feels rushed and is meh but still cost that full 60 bucks? Yes you do and again that's the core of the issue here you want your to show off and cherish your coke classic but you were given a big can of new coke and your once delicious thirst quenching coke classic is now the hip new thing that everyone is buying making it seem not quite as good anymore.

And look don't get me wrong, I understand you once had something that only a select few had and now its gone to the masses so its not that cool or fun to wear / glamour anymore however everyone on here makes it sound like with the expansion they went "You know what the whole rank thing was kind of bad so we are just gonna take it out and you can now simply buy all the armor sets with wolf marks and nothing else even the new and future ones oh and also if you were rank 50 or whatever uhh I mean I guess shove it cause you are not gonna get any special mounts, title or anything like that to show you were one of the few to accomplish this before it was removed" cause hey if that happens I would be behind the "This is BS express" if the whole system was gutted and you got nothing to show for it yes that would be a issue worth all the current hub bub however as I said you do have something to show off your rank / work that those who only pvp for a day / week will not have.

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Originally Posted by Tila

I did my first time PvPing this week because I want the old PvP gear. I never PvPed before because the grind for that gear was to insane. Now I'll grind for the gear, get a few ranks, and honestly, I genuinly like the PvP so will be staying.

This will bring in new people. And since you'll have a nice many ranks once you get a full set of the PvP gear, it may keep them too since the grind to the 50's wont look so bad when you're already a good bit in.

This is a very, very good thing. People need to get off their high horse.

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And this right here was the exact point of my previous point on why this is a great thing to happen to PvP, Those "I'm to cool to grind that gear out" PvE'rs are now going to give pvp a shot and hell if even one of them now goes "You know I never really was into pvp but this is kind of fun" (oh look the person I just quoted did) That is a win for you pvpers its no secret pvp is a back burner for SE it was a tossed in half assed time waster in FFXI and I will admit its better and more balanced in this but still a side project that clearly gets no where near the attention PvE does. however if things like this bring more people into the mix and you dont see a 90% pve 5% pvp and 5% mixed bag guess what SE might go "hey you know what maybe we should put a bit more into this and actually put a bit more effort into these changes these pvpers want" Cause from what i can see on these bored its a whole lot of empty promises on PvP changes the dev's talk about.

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Originally Posted by Tensu

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Was discussing it with a friend earlier, and imo, the big issue with getting people is that there are no rewards between starting and being maxed. PvP desperately needed something inbetween to get people in. The old gear not having rank is a good start. But its only that, a start. More needs to be done. Perhaps dropping the 180 gear rank requirement once the next set comes rather than, say, adding another 10 points on. It'll take, what? An average of 40-50 games per set for 110? People need more incentive past that. The achievements are to large to account for reward. Perhaps a chocobo barding? Minions? Cards? Beast Tribe devoted to PvP in some way? It doesnt really need to be anything major, just SOMETHING.

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Originally Posted by Tila

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Or more game modes, most people beyond end game pvpers (does not exist in this game prob never will). A few cookie crumbs would be nice to get people in, but more variety of activities would help a good chunk too It would bring me in as an almost full time pvper.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

Or more game modes, most people beyond end game pvpers (does not exist in this game prob never will). A few cookie crumbs would be nice to get people in, but more variety of activities would help a good chunk too It would bring me in as an almost full time pvper.

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Honestly, I dont think new game modes would do horribly much. Players in PvP centered games have been shown time and time again to be ok with limited map selection (like splatoons 3, or MOBA's one). What gets people are carrots on sticks.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Was discussing it with a friend earlier, and imo, the big issue with getting people is that there are no rewards between starting and being maxed. PvP desperately needed something inbetween to get people in. The old gear not having rank is a good start. But its only that, a start. More needs to be done. Perhaps dropping the 180 gear rank requirement once the next set comes rather than, say, adding another 10 points on. It'll take, what? An average of 40-50 games per set for 110? People need more incentive past that. The achievements are to large to account for reward. Perhaps a chocobo barding? Minions? Cards? Beast Tribe devoted to PvP in some way? It doesnt really need to be anything major, just SOMETHING.

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I talked about this in another thread also,pretty much spot on to what I said, The fact that there is a giant rank wall in front of new pvpers and even new players is going to turn more people off to the idea then on even if the pvp gear is useless in pvp people want something and currently all you get is titles for every what is it 10 or so ranks?

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Originally Posted by Tila

Honestly, I dont think new game modes would do horribly much. Players in PvP centered games have been shown time and time again to be ok with limited map selection (like splatoons 3, or MOBA's one). What gets people are carrots on sticks.

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What;s splatoons? And even moba's have seen success on other map modes like ARAM. 72 zergfest right now has a lot to desire in terms of gameplay. Even dota went through multiple maps before coming up with the three laned map. The pvp in moba;s are also very different from tab based mmos many other mmos have many more interesting pvp then FF14 right now. Even (god don;t hate me for this) FF11 had more interesting pvp.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

What;s splatoons? And even moba's have seen success on other map modes like ARAM. 72 zergfest right now has a lot to desire in terms of gameplay. Even dota went through multiple maps before coming up with the three laned map. The pvp in moba;s are also very different from tab based mmos many other mmos have many more interesting pvp then FF14 right now.

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Just making the point that new maps isnt going to mean much if the things surrounding it still need help. Add a new map then people will still have little reason to PvP. They need to give incentive to PvP. A new map isnt going to hold people at all. Hell, look at WoW, they add new maps and people hate playing them. LoL has added maps outside the basic 3 lane and they never do good at all. ARAM can't be judged yet, to soon.

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Originally Posted by Tila

Just making the point that new maps isnt going to mean much if the things surrounding it still need help. Add a new map then people will still have little reason to PvP. They need to give incentive to PvP. A new map isnt going to hold people at all. Hell, look at WoW, they add new maps and people hate playing them. LoL has added maps outside the basic 3 lane and they never do good at all. ARAM can't be judged yet, to soon.

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Que times are the biggest problem!!! New rewards will not make me play that godawful map, I think they need to come up with some good and tired/true maps to even want me to play them. Plenty of people like some of the new pvp maps (many had more of the they are the same thing problem about them) that wow brought out and ARAM has been out for YEARS now do we need like a decade to decide if something works or not?

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

Que times are the biggest problem new rewards will not make me play that godawful map, I think they need to come up with some good and tired/true maps to even want me to play them. Plenty of people like some of the new pvp maps (many had more of the they are the same thing problem about them) that wow brought out and ARAM has been out for YEARS now do we need like a decade to decide if something works or not?

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People wont give it a chance if the surrounding systems are bad. People wont care to try a new map if there are no good rewards. People won't try the new map if range still dominate. New map is what you do AFTER you get the other stuff up to snuff.

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Originally Posted by Tila

People wont give it a chance if the surrounding systems are bad. People wont care to try a new map if there are no good rewards. People won't try the new map if range still dominate. New map is what you do AFTER you get the other stuff up to snuff.

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Then in that case both our ideas are useless till they fix the system overall. I agree some more rewards would be nice and gear should be at more frequent integrals for pvp. I want maps that are smaller with less people in them so that melee and ranged are more equal on footing. With less people your contribution also is easier to see. 8v8/16v16 would help with que times since A. less problems with their GC restrictions B. more ques can pop with varied numbers 72 person pvp has its place, but so does 16v16 and wolfs den arena type pvp.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

Then in that case both our ideas are useless till they fix the system overall. I agree some more rewards would be nice and gear should be at more frequent integrals for pvp. I want maps that are smaller with less people in them so that melee and ranged are more equal on footing. With less people your contribution also is easier to see. 8v8/16v16 would help with que times since A. less problems with their GC restrictions B. more ques can pop with varied numbers 72 person pvp has its place, but so does 16v16 and wolfs den arena type pvp.

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The new map supports 8 v 8 v 8 and its fun as fug

Would be nice to try but our queueing system is so limited and unfriendly we can't actually choose to go into an 8v8v8... I wish we could though.

ANSWERED IN A VIDEO
I used your post to make a video with. Anyways, that's basically my opinion but put a lot blunter since Ivy's a jerk.

BURN^^^^^^ XD

Seriously though, so nice to see queues under 15 on aether, also I don't have to do my expert for tomes #fml. Ivy said it best; who gives a crap about gear. Ranks all about the skill points pour moi.