Personally I don't think consoles like the PS3 are holding the game back as much as everyone thinks.
Sure it constrains the level design a bit, basically everything created has to be able to be trim down to fit on the PS3, but with things like textures, shader effects, shadows ... etc. those are "optional" and/or can be easily turned down.
The game has a good deal of easily fixable graphical flaws,
- Lack of mip-mapping in many areas. Granted it will increase load times but I don't see why they can't implement some sort of prioritized texture streaming. It's a big part why the game looks so "aliased".
- Water. With DX11 and tessellation on it doesn't even look half as good as GTA V's water (https://youtu.be/i63NKuhLlcg), I mean seriously.
- Parallax mapping also glitches out quite often. I understand it's a limitation of the technique but you should at least try design around those edge cases.
So are consoles holding back this game?
Printable View
-
08-13-2015, 07:29 AMBishop81
-
08-13-2015, 08:03 AMCeodore
There's some points to make about the trade offs between consoles and games. TL;DR at the bottom.
Trade off 1: There's a huge difference in peripheral choice. For instance, I play using 4 different peripherals, Razer Naga (Mouse with a number pad on the side), Razer Nostromo (Half keyboard finger pad with joystick and tons of toggles), Razer Anasi (Full keyboard with lots of macro keys), and 3 foot pedals for more toggle. Now, two of these (If not all of them due to the brands) are not compatible with the PS4, yet every PS4 controller is compatible with use on the PC. But these are all preference things that change when people develop muscle memory for one or the other. I could never play on the PS4 unless I trained myself to do it because I have developed muscle memory for my PC peripherals.
Trade Off 2: PCs function on software designed to seamlessly integrate programs with different hardware (Windows, Linux, Apple, whatever your brand of choice) and because of this, PCs come in a variety of different forms, from casual, to business, to gaming. Their ability to be customized means that their limitations are only due to what hardware is biggest and baddest at the time. However, this also means that the limitations change almost monthly, and thus designing a game based on what is the biggest and baddest is simply foolish. Now, to come to my point, and to understand it, you have to look at consoles. No matter how you slice it, this game is inherently limited by consoles. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. It creates a base line hardware ideal for what the game can run on. While this does mean that the game can never exceed these limitations (unless it drops the support for said console) it also means that as PC parts drop in price, and thus creating a PC that meets or exceeds those limitations becomes cheaper, and allows for a larger player base. So, YES, the game IS limited by consoles, however, the console in question that is limiting the game is the PS3, and considering that thoughts about dropping the PS3 from being supported is bouncing around, that limitation is likely to lift. In such a case, the game can and WILL experience a dramatic increase in its capabilities. To understand this, you have to understand the differences between the hardware of the PS3 and the PS4.
PS3: Single Core CPU 3.2 GHZ, 550 Mhz Nvidia Graphics card, and 256 MB of RAM.
PS4: 8 Core AMD CPU 1.75 GHZ each, 800 Mhz Radeon Graphics card, and 8 GB of RAM.
Quite a big difference. While the specs on the PS4 are still well below most common computers today (The videocard is about equivalent to an integrated video card) it is still far above the PS3. So if the PS3 is capable of running the game currently, should it ever be dropped from support, and should the game ever receive an update after such time, you could expect to see a radical improvement on the limitations of the game. It will take a seriously stressful game to push the limitations of a PS4, and it would probably also push those of any common computer as well. Remember, console game software is made in mind to use hardware to its fullest. Companies in fact lose money on the sales of gaming consoles, in the knowledge that the sales of the games themselves (which are just software and a disk) will cover that loss plus more. Because of this loss, they try to program these systems to make the most use of every part of the system possible. This is one of the reasons these systems get so hot and require adequate ventilation space, the parts are being pushed to their limits almost constantly. The downside of this is what we are seeing with the PS3. When they reach those limits, the game experiences crippling lag. So I fully support removing support for the PS3, because that alone would be enough of a lift on the limitations on this game to see dramatic improvements.
Trade off 3: While looking into the future of this game, there are some major differences between the PC and PS4. The hardware for the PS4 can not be customized like a PC can. This means that the games created for these systems are drastically different. While PC games have dramatically evolved over the years, PS4 games will never be able to evolve. Despite even the best programming minds in the world, there is still no way to squeeze more from a machine that has locked in hardware than it already being squeezed. This is obviously not an issue right now, however, it may become an issue down the road should this game have a life span like its previous MMO predecessor, or WoW. PCs will continue to change and evolve and become more powerful. Their parts will become cheaper as newer, stronger, and better parts become available, because that's the beauty of a PC, if you have the money, you can have the honey. So as PCs continue to change and evolve, the game will either have to do the same, or risk competition from games that are purely PC that are developed in the future to run on the stronger machines. 8 core processors with 8 GB ram and integrated video cards are quickly becoming obsolete. Even casual PCs you can find at Best Buy now can come with dedicated cards already in them. Should this game last long enough, this will pose a problem for the PS4. Of course, by that time, there will likely be a PS 5 or 6, so all that will be required is an upgrade. This doesn't seem like a problem, but it is, because look at the issues we now are seeing with the PS3. Trying to phase out support for a console poses the possibility of alienating a fair portion of the game's community, specifically, those that can't or won't buy the new system. Again, if you have the money, you can have the honey.
Trade off 4: I mentioned the peripherals earlier, but there is another difference between these systems that limits this game beyond the hardware or software. There is also the issue with tactics. Take for instance, WoW, where they have fights like "Operator Thogar in Blackrock Foundry" (Thank you Kroselok Qahnarrin for helping me remember the name of this fight) where you fight in a train station, and you are constantly dealing with different trains coming in and out, with vastly different mechanics, on top of the boss, plus sometimes being split up from your group. We don't see fights quite like this in FFXIV due to the limitations between PC and PS4 controllers. I have heard you can use a mouse with the PS4, but I wonder how advanced of mice you can actually use. I've also heard you can use a keyboard with the PS4 too, but I wonder if things like the macro systems for Razer function at all with it. My point here is that designing fights like those in WoW, where there are complicated mechanics beyond just point and activate, or DPS burn, or move here, is quite difficult when you are trying to design a game that takes into consideration the limitations inherent on both system controls, more specifically, the PS4's system controls. Where I can set up toggle buttons for nearly 500-600 different key functions between my 4 different peripherals, the software I use to do this is not available on the PS4 (Razer Synapse software). This is in fact one of the reasons that the TOS doesn't like third party programs so much, because of the fact that software for the PC is abundant, and creating third party macros is a capability specifically only for the PC. So, they try to limit it, but it's virtually undetectable unless a macro is made that is just blatantly obvious (like crafting bots). The difference can also be seen between WoW and FFXIV in the global cooldowns. WoW has a very quick GCD, where FFXIV has a GCD almost double that. This in part is due to the fact that controls on the PS4 require more complex button presses than those on the PC. For instance, you access 8 skills from one side of the cross hotbar. I access 12 skills from just my thumb on my mouse. You press a button to switch from one cross hotbar to another, I press one button on my Nostromo with my other thumb to toggle to another hotbar where I can now access 12 more skills. In the same amount of button presses, I have accessed 24 hotbar skills that it took for the PS4 to access 16. To switch to another hotbar, I simply press another toggle, maybe with my foot this time on my pedals, or perhaps with the joystick on my Nostromo. But, when I release these buttons, I'm automatically back to my original hotbar. From the videos I have seen on the PS4 controllers, to do this, you have to press another button. With that in mind, SE has created a longer GCD, and it often comes off as making the game feel slower. I know it took a lot of getting use to after switching from games like TERA and Guild Wars 2. It wasn't so hard for me, since I've always played tanks and they were always suppose to feel kind of slow.
Conclusion/TL;DR: The differences between console and PC are there, and while they can be made up for by talented players, one can not deny that they are there. I have played with some really good PS4 players, and I am not here to knock the PS4, because frankly, the game was made with the console players in mind, so you will never be able to tell the difference between a good console player and a good PC player. Drop PS3, and we're golden. -
08-13-2015, 09:18 AMTrebleActually the PS3 is holding it back quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
The reason we havn't seen any resolution improvements on our character models and armors and only minor lighting filters is due to the PS3.
It also limits our ability to have open play areas like in 1.0 as opposed to the zoned off borders we have atm.
The PS3 also limites how many details we can have on the screen at a time, so things like character customizations such as adding say... seperate horn and face options for au'ra, just can't be done due to the PS3's ram limits. That applies not only to that small detail, but to MANY other things as well in terms of adding detail and differences to models and armors and customizability and so forth.
I mean they've done a fantastic job working within their limits, but I GUARANTEE you that if we see the PS3 dropped, then this games gonna seem like a different game.
Infact, I bet they're waiting till they drop it to add flying to the ARR areas so they don't have to zone them off anymore, so we can just fly seamlessly from place to place, and it'll feel more like heavensward flying as opposed to flying for half a second and being done with a zone. -
08-13-2015, 01:51 PMBishop81Again I don't see how the PS3 is affecting all that. It can just run with lower res textures and with the lighting filters turned off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treble
OK. Although character customizations also strain the servers as they have more data to send.Quote:
It also limits our ability to have open play areas like in 1.0 as opposed to the zoned off borders we have atm.
The PS3 also limites how many details we can have on the screen at a time, so things like character customizations such as adding say... seperate horn and face options for au'ra, just can't be done due to the PS3's ram limits. That applies not only to that small detail, but to MANY other things as well in terms of adding detail and differences to models and armors and customizability and so forth.
Don't know about seamless. For it to be seamless, they will have to stream in all the graphical data from the hard disk. Regardless if you are on the PS3, PS4 or a pimped out PC, hard disk speed is the bottleneck and is the nearly same across.Quote:
I mean they've done a fantastic job working within their limits, but I GUARANTEE you that if we see the PS3 dropped, then this games gonna seem like a different game.
Infact, I bet they're waiting till they drop it to add flying to the ARR areas so they don't have to zone them off anymore, so we can just fly seamlessly from place to place, and it'll feel more like heavensward flying as opposed to flying for half a second and being done with a zone.
Also some of the loading delay is due to the server lagging out when transferring you from one zone to another. So it's not only a client issue. -
08-13-2015, 02:46 PMsilentwindfr
how the ps3 affect it? 256 mo of ram is enough said, it affect the whole game, mmorpg are one of the most demanding in ram. the city was cut in area because of the ps3, other point, develop for the ps3 ask to make the game with another programmation code since the ps3 is a totally different one, the ps4 is really close of the PC, reducing the cost and the time needed for pass it from one platform to another.
on the long terms the limitation of the ps3 is really important and will ask more time for adapt it to that support. people defending the ps3 are.... silly and must admit that the hardware is too old for this sort of game now. they was kind enough to spend a looooot of time and money for make this version. but i think they need to stop to spend cash on this hardware sooner or later. -
08-13-2015, 02:47 PMSyraLeo
I don't know if this affects gameplay but i would like for them to add an option to skip the dialogue box for entering zones.
I don't want to keep clicking Ok to enter my FC house or to exit. Make it more seamless, like the transitioning between zones with those blue dotted lines. It wouldn't affect gameplay and i think consoles can handle that as well. -
08-13-2015, 03:04 PMGreyfrost
The only question would be are they going to rework the old contents, maps, towns by the time they dropped service for PS3, if it's only for future (after dropping ps3) content that gets modified for ultrablabla enhancements, then that's cutting it short, I think?
This might seem out of context but let's take a look at moonfire faire, my friends who're playing on PS3/4 experiences massive framelag to almost a freeze at costa del sol, now you might think, hey even people who play on PC lags there during the event when it's crowded, yes, that's true, but that's not the point.
You can upgrade your pc easily, you can't upgrade your console, there's only a buy/sell/trade-in option. I might be wrong on this. -
08-13-2015, 03:06 PMrazzgrizz3
absolutely yes they are. i hope they discontinue ps3 support with the next expansion.
-
08-13-2015, 03:10 PMColorfulIf they ever release HD textures I think it would be a given to do that, but to merge areas so there's no loading screens, or do stuff like merge Old and New Gridania I doubt it. They didn't do it with flying, sure they can throw that "flying isn't needed in smaller areas" reason around which does hold some truth to it, but it's also a way for them to save time removing all the invisible walls and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfrost
-
08-13-2015, 03:37 PMGreyfrost
On a side-note while we're talking about future improvement/dropping issue, has anyone ever mentioned the needs/implementing of multy-party queue for an alliance raid?
-
08-13-2015, 03:44 PMBishop81
/sigh
I'm probably wasting my time ... the PS3 isn't holding back things like HD textures.
We have parallax mapping and (poorly done) tessellation with DX11 even with the PS3 being still supported.
Unless missing a feature will hurt gameplay, the PS3 isn't holding an feature back. -
08-13-2015, 03:47 PMColorfulThen what is honestly? There's nothing stopping them releasing the HD textures for PC exclusively. Could it be that they want to keep PS4 and PC visually similar? If so, then consoles are holding FFXIV back a teeny bit, but they more than make up for it with the extra subs they bring in for future content...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
I do want an answer from Yoshida, or someone on the team about HD textures. Surely they didn't just up and delete all the assets after releasing the content? -
08-13-2015, 03:51 PMBishop81The PS4 has as much memory as your typical PC so it can't be that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
Why? I don't know. Maybe they want to keep load times down - for ALL platforms; PC hard drives aren't much faster than those in consoles.
And seriously, before HD textures, it would be nice if they actually have mip-mapping for a ton of textures like the floor of the Alex boss with the tanks. -
08-13-2015, 04:02 PMsirDartsActually some features are confirmed to be held back due to PS3 limitations, like for example TP bars for the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
-
08-13-2015, 04:32 PMColorfulDoesn't VRAM handle the streaming of textures? A modern high end GPU has 4 GB+ of VRAM, HD textures would take 2, maybe 3 at most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
They found a work around for 3.1 though, and that's just displaying the bar without any numbers iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
-
08-13-2015, 04:36 PMBishop81But where do those textures load from? Yupe, hard disk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
-
08-13-2015, 04:48 PMColorfulHDDs can transfer around 40MB/s+ (theoretically it could go higher, but other things play into it), that's much more than enough to move the texture to the VRAM (I don't know much about this, but I figure that's how it works). If a HDD can handle the likes of Metro Last Light at 4k (the textures in that game are amazing) why can't it take FFXIV? You might throw in the "it's a multiplayer game, it has to load every individual player" which is true, but to my knowledge it caps out and only loads more after you move away from the people you're close to. I'm not asking for mind blowing textures, just something that doesn't look like someone smeared **** and threw it into the game, or pixel art. I specifically remember a Roe in the Crystal Tower quest line that had a chest piece that looks like it's textures could have come out of Minecraft, or at least a part of it. There's also problems like this, which ruins the aesthetic of the area imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
http://i.imgur.com/0aH9rit.jpg -
08-13-2015, 05:00 PMBishop8140MiB/s is very slow if you are trying to fill 2GiB of VRAM - 51.2 secs, that is nearly a minute. Heck, even if you kept textures to 1 GiB, it would be 25.6 secs. Imagine a 25 sec+ load screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
I don't know about Metro Last Light but if you look at games like Bloodborne ... the load times are atrocious.
Adding mip-maps to every texture would increase the memory load by 33.3%, if they can't even afford that ... -
08-13-2015, 05:05 PMColorfulI'm going to have to assume Bloodborne's insane load times are tied to either the game being made horribly, or a limitation elsewhere on the PS4. You can easily use an SSD with a PS4, and yet the load times are still atrocious as you put it, barely beating out the HDD. Long longing has been an issue with consoles for ages now, on a HDD I can load up a heavily modded Skyrim with 2k textures within 10-20 seconds, can't say the same for a lot of console games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
-
08-13-2015, 06:29 PMCheraa
I think that SE will stop the PS3 Support with 4.0 and not during the HW Addon. Wouldn't make sense anyway. PS3 got HW and there for SquareEnix has to support it until it ends.
It would make sense, too for a next Expansion if SE plans to overwork the zone, to get rid of most of their loading screens with PS3 gone.
I would like to see at least that there are only Loading screens for entering a Major City and for entering the Adventure Zones of Uldah, Limsa, Grindania and Ishgard.
Would mean, if I move out of Uldah, i will get a loading screen and after it I can move freely from south, to north, to west and so on Thanalan without any Loadings. -
08-13-2015, 08:40 PMQojon
Yes, they do hold back the game. But at the same time SquareEnix had set a precedent with FFXI, which was also a multi-platform MMORPG. Also, console gaming is a very dominant force in the Japanese market, so it makes sense for SquareEnix to develop a game with both platforms in mind. It might be a different story for future MMOs as the Japanese market continues to warm up to PC gaming.
Although, I do agree that legacy consoles should be dropped. -
08-13-2015, 08:41 PMsirDartsSadly there are also a lot of PS3 users who didn't upgrade since the new generation had like NO interesting games at launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qojon
-
08-13-2015, 08:43 PMQojonLet's hope that the FFVII remake convinces them to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirDarts
-
08-13-2015, 08:56 PMCraiger
Are PS3 holding it back? Yes, but you shouldn't say "consoles" in the question, because PS4 is equal to a weaker PC. The average PC gamer doesn't have particularly good PCs, like some seem to think...
Saying PS4 is holding back the game, is the same as saying most of the PCs being used to play FFXIV, are holding back the game...
I don't even own a PS4, and I always play MMOs on a PC, so I'm no console fanboy or anything.
As for the matter of more customization... You really think something like that can't be handled by PS4? I'm no expert, but I doubt that's any problem at all. Limiting everything like they are doing, sounds like some extreme low level of performance that they're aiming towards, and PS4 isn't even near the ceiling of what it can handle. -
08-13-2015, 08:57 PMGilraen
I love how the dead horse that is the anti-PS3 crowd are ignoring the other, rather larger, longer dead horse in the room. The average PC. Sometimes just as bad as a PS3, the average PC is one that's got a few years under it's belt, has known games that would make kids today look at you like you're old and generally remembers when Windows wasn't trying to be a tablet OS. Why do people use average PCs? Cost. It's why consoles like the PS3 exist. Why drop $1000+ on a new computer so I can play games when I can drop $300+ on a console and do much the same on a bigger screen while lounging in a nicer seat? Is the PS3 old? Yeah, I can't deny that. But it's no more a hurdle than the average PC. And before people go on about 'lazy' or 'daft', remember that most people who aren't running gaming rigs are also older than you, living in a home bought/rented and taken care of on their own dime. Dropping thousands of dollars every few years on a computer is a luxury easily ignored.
-
08-13-2015, 09:07 PMCraigerYou got it wrong I'm afraid... Like my earlier post, PS4 is comparable to a weaker PC, PS3 is comparable to a dinosaur PC...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
Your average FFXIV PC player, doesn't have a more powerful PC than a PS4 probably, but PS3 is coming up to 10 years old, and even back then it was comparable to a pretty average PC... If you don't have a more powerful PC than a PS3, then I'm sorry, you need to upgrade.
You talk about price, and how most people can't/don't want to pay more than $300+ for a console to play on... Well, $300+ on an used PC, will give you much more power than an PS3.
EDIT: $300 is close to PS4 price anyways, so I don't understand what you meant really -
08-13-2015, 10:02 PMCheraaPS3 > 500 MB Memory for Video and SystemQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
Average PC > 8 GB System Memory + 2 GB Video RAM
The Average PC should have a GPU around Geforce 400 to 600, way more Powerful than the PS3 GPU.
PS3 ist Garbage in terms of its Hardware.
The average PC can be compared to PS4. A Gamer PC already has the power of a coming PS5 in some years. -
08-13-2015, 10:05 PMNoira
Buy me a gaming rig then you can complain about consoles holding the game back all day long.
There is a reason I cannot afford a decent PC but can afford a PS4. I know its hard to wrap ones mind around that but don't hurt yourself.
No IMO PS4 isn't holding the game back, PS3 probably I hear a lot of complaints from ps3 users. -
08-13-2015, 11:09 PMSkotie
As a ps3 player myself, or at least until around rhis weekend, I have too say I feel like SE should be obligated ro continue support for ps3 at least until next xpac.
Yes I understand it's holding the game back for ps4/pc players but hey they sold the game on an older platform, what should we punish people for thier choice of platform? -
08-13-2015, 11:15 PMBishop81
Probably preaching to the choir ...
It's important when comparing PCs and consoles to not only look at the spec. The APIs they use also matters.
PCs are stuck with very "general" APIs in order to support the multitude of hardware out there in contrast to consoles that have very low level APIs custom fitted to it's fixed set of hardware. There is a cost to the generality of PC graphic APIs, namely efficiency. Thus consoles while looking weaker on paper, in practice they perform very well. -
08-13-2015, 11:16 PMHyrist
Um. No.
Consoles aren't holding back this game because they can make console specific software to acommodate for that.
More than anything, when it comes to development, server structure, and SE's incredible levels of data backup and redundancy is what's causing development to slow. 15 second backups of item files that read like character sheets is too much. -
08-13-2015, 11:17 PMfortuona
i still play on ps3, heavensward runs better than i expected it to honestly. i understand people who want it dropped for improvements, but i have no plans of buying a ps4 or pc any time in the near future.
-
08-14-2015, 12:08 AMVinestraWarning I'm fairly certain Yoshi mentioned that by 4.0 PS3 players will be dropped. Or just not designed for.Quote:
Originally Posted by fortuona
-
08-14-2015, 12:27 AMGilraen
I played on the PS3 till about a week or two before they ended the free upgrade campaign because the PS4 FINALLY had a good game worth buying for (Bloodborne, long time From fan). Would I go back to the PS3... I've actually been considering it, the PS4 version is just a PC port complete with everything the PC version had to offer. Everything... (damnable 'physics'). Graphics has never been a selling point for me, I mean I played XI on a PS2 (and later PS3) until Adoulin and loved every moment of it. Not even kidding.
-
08-14-2015, 12:30 AMZariI see no logical reason to go back to the ps3 unless you plan to completely get rid of the ps4. It is pointless to go back to a version that doesnt run nearly as well and has plenty of problems. Not to mention the ps3 version IS being dropped, we just dont know whenQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
-
08-14-2015, 12:31 AMKosmos992kExcept that PS2 is still supported in FFXI and I've not heard anyone whining about it holding the game back too much - hell there are legions of players complaining that FFXIV needs to do what FFXI does (not I). Compared to the PS2, the PS3 is a behemoth of a system. There are a few specific areas where the way the game is implemented on PS3 put restrictions on what SE can currently do in specific areas, but clearly zone size and graphical quality are not chief among them, or else PC and PS4 players would not have the more expansive zones and much improved visuals compared to PS3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noira
I still think PS3 will no longer be supported once FFXIV 4.0 arrives, but players of FFXIV 2.X/3.X should have no reason to fear, I doubt that PS3 players will simply be locked out of their game. It's more likely that they will be restricted to the 2.X/3.X areas and content, and PC/PS4/Mac (if they ever get that working right) will move on to 4.X and beyond.
How? PS3 was never a supported platform for XI. The only way I can think of where that would work (maybe) would be to run it on one of the original phat PS3's with the PS2 chipset on the motherboard for compatibility - and those things ran hot, and burned themselves out after several years. I still have one that works, but it's retired pending a close check by a qualified engineer and a much improved thermal compound to secure the heat sink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
-
08-14-2015, 12:43 AMGilraenIt IS an original run PS3, the 60g in fact. It's YLOD'd on me once already, years ago, but these things are a rare breed today so I sent it in to Sony and they refurbished it. Not for free, of course, but so worth every penny. And if it YLOD's on me again I'll send it in again. And again. The newer PS3s would be such a downgrade it's not even worth considering. Yes, the backwards compatibility is worth that much, especially considering they ended PS2 production years ago now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
-
08-14-2015, 12:58 AMKosmos992kSony still refurbs the original BC PS3s? Do you get the system you send them back, or a replacement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
-
08-14-2015, 02:02 AMDawnSolariaThis is loads of it. By this logic PC exclusive game with much better texture and same amount of load time must be performing magic on HHD. Console is worse at performance compared to PC is no news, if SE insist on keeping one version then console is very much holding PC back. (Visually, at least. One aspect I really wish they would improve upon.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
-
08-14-2015, 02:06 AMMagisI remember everyone complaining that the game couldn't be upgraded cause it was held back by the PS2. Heck the "PS3 Limitations" is just an extension of the "PS2 Limitations" joke. Also you are comparing an MMO released near the launch of the PS2 vs an MMO released a couple of months before it's end. Heck, play FFXI on the PS2 right now, god damn does it chug (if it doesn't crash). Was playing it to see how the game fared a few months back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k