3.01 Patch Notes

So, why were the two weakest dps classes nerfed?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Rushing to 60 usually means having a 60 within the 1st 2-3 days of the actual release, 2 weeks is plenty of time for one 60 even by the slowest player.. in fact a few people already have 3-4 60 jobs. so, no it is the right time frame for majority to be 60.

Even people with lives and full times jobs have 60 jobs at this point. The time frame is correct.

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You forgot the part where you have to get full 170 by spamming dungeons. The slower players are only reaching 60 now, or did so a few days ago. How you expect these players to already be full 170 is beyond me.


People with lives and full time jobs typically dont have (anywhere near to) full 170. And god forbid they also took the time to level crafting/gathering.


As such, anyone that got to 60 and put a lot of extra effort into going to 170~ or higher gets a clear advantage over those that ''took their time to enjoy the road to 60''

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

You forgot the part where you have to get full 170 by spamming dungeons. The slower players are only reaching 60 now, or did so a few days ago. How you expect these players to already be full 170 is beyond me.


People with lives and full time jobs typically dont have (anywhere near to) full 170. And god forbid they also took the time to level crafting/gathering.


As such, anyone that got to 60 and put a lot of extra effort into going to 170~ or higher gets a clear advantage over those that ''took their time to enjoy the road to 60''

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You also forgot how cheap and easy those are to get just by working dungons and doing dailies, i already know someone with an 8 hour shift and even has not been on much still has full i 170 gear with half being i180 already, that's not really an excuse.

As a slow player, I just don't expect to get into raids when they're first released. The staggering of content exists to keep people who NEED to be on the EDGE satisfied, not me.

I feel like se is pushing me out of the game.

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Originally Posted by Sakei

So, why were the two weakest dps classes nerfed?

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I'm not sure you even read the patch notes. Also, if you knew how to play these two classes, you probably wouldn't have even asked that question.

To dumb it down for you, basically you will be activating WM for Sidewinder and Barrage->Empyreal Arrow. Notice how the cooldown of WMis equal to Empyreal Arrow. Makes one think they did this on purpose.

I'm only MCH 54 so they probably have something similar.

Cant wait to test my Bard and want to see the result, if the outcome is good then I will level MCH :)

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

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What exactly is stopping those players from doing the raid later on? You can get fully geared in Law in just about a week with your daily roulettes, and maybe a little dungeon farming. I'm not sure what the alternative is to cater to those slower players is, other than changing the requirement to i145 (since i160 also requires you do expert dungeons) which would be nerfing the raid to the point of it being pointless.

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Originally Posted by Ampheni

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Idunno why you think I would play any differnt. I pop DA + defensive and all what you have said that you do. All I tried to do was share my pov over the MP bug. I'm sorry if some might not agree with how I have experienced it, but somehow I have managed even tho I am not a "pro DRK" or whatever you are trying to imply, and in the end that is what matters because it's just a game. Relax and smell the flowers. Just because you play a DRK doesn't mean you have to be all dark and gloomy. \o/

Getting 170 is easy and quick. I got ilv170 the first day I hit 60. lol.

Only the chest, pants and weapon cost above 215 tomes. You get 80 tomes from completing the new level 60 dungeons, then a 40(iirc) tome bonus if someone is new. On top of that, you can also do expert for that tome bonus. If you are in a FC, you can run dungeons with your friends who recently hit 60 to shovel in those delicious tome bonus'.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Don't get me wrong here. I have the hours to spend just waiting in front of the queue. For that matter I only heal or tank; so queues are only seconds for me anyway. But im sure many people dont have that time to sit in front of the queue literally every second. Having an auto enter function would be immensely helpful for a ton of people I reckon.

Afking for a long time can be easily countered by just asking for a confirmation to stay in the queue every (fixed amount of) x minutes.

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It's not literally every second though. There's a timer. What is it, 15-20s?
I dunno, I normally just accept.

The confirmation thing actually sounds more of a hassle to get rid of another hassle.
I mean, it already has a timer that gives reasonable room. I don't think they need to be more helpful than that.
You have some time to accept, but once you do accept you're definitely by your computer.

If there has some be some sort of solution, the system should just bump the player back to the front of the queue if they re-queue within a minute of missing their original queue.
Only works on the first queue though.
But otherwise, I don't think anyone should be allowed to enter an instance without being preset to accept it. That's just something that should be the case for the other people that gets grouped with you.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

You also forgot how cheap and easy those are to get just by working, i already know someone with an 8 hour shift and even has not been on much still has full i 170 gear with half being i180 already, that's not really an excuse.

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Having an 8 hour shift does not mean the person cant also be playing the game 8 hours a day. Fact of the matter is that Alexander was ment to be released after 2 weeks to ''give everyone the time to enjoy leveling at their own pace''; yet their neglecting of mentioning the ilvl requirements (which are not the same as entry dungeon) seems to speak otherwise.


Soldiery isnt hard to get. But it does take some measure of time. Let me ask you, how did you gain most of your tomes? From roulettes. Roulettes that wont earn you law untill you are level 60. Getting a full set of i170 requires a fair bit of dungeon spamming, something the ''players who took their time to enjoy leveling to 60'' havent had much of.

Now I play 8 hours~ per day myself. But that doesnt mean I have to be inconsiderate of those that dont.


I'm not entirely sure why the ''full defense lets bash this! offense!'' radar went off.
The argument is simple. ''enjoy the time to level 60'' ''everyone will be able to start off on the same footing, regardless if they played a lot during the 2 weeks or not''
vs ''-1 hour patch notes: need to be full soldiery to enter alex''

How you can even sit there with a straight face and argue that this isnt a contradiction is beyond me.

servers up

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Originally Posted by Sakei

So, why were the two weakest dps classes nerfed?

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I swear some of the stuff you can read on these forums is so stupid it slowly dissolves your brain / gives you cancer.
I honestly don't know what's worse- the fact you even think this is a nerf, or the fact there are people who agree with you and have liked your post.

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Originally Posted by Brundlefly

I'm not sure you even read the patch notes. Also, if you knew how to play these two classes, you probably wouldn't have even asked that question.

To dumb it down for you, basically you will be activating WM for Sidewinder and Barrage->Empyreal Arrow. Notice how the cooldown of WMis equal to Empyreal Arrow. Makes one think they did this on purpose.

I'm only MCH 54 so they probably have something similar.

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Let me break it down for you. The classes are doing tank dps, and fill a tank slot. Now, please go back and read the patch notes. Then, if you have learned anything at all about critical thinking in your life you can join back in on the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Idunno why you think I would play any differnt. I pop DA + defensive and all what you have said that you do. All I tried to do was share my pov over the MP bug. I'm sorry if some might not agree with how I have experienced it, but somehow I have managed even tho I am not a "pro DRK" or whatever you are trying to imply, and in the end that is what matters because it's just a game. Relax and smell the flowers. Just because you play a DRK doesn't mean you have to be all dark and gloomy. \o/

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The problem isn't with you not being a "pro DRK," the problem is that your point of view is based on a sub-optimal method of play that has no value in discussing the purpose of class balance, since most balance issues are addressed around optimal levels of play. If you're not using DRK's resources to their fullest potential, of course you're not going to experience a problem with that, as you're not playing to a level where a cap on that potential is suddenly shunted on to you.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

The confirmation thing actually sounds more of a hassle to get rid of another hassle.

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Pretty much, yes. But its an argument against the ''but we would get so many AFKers then''.
The difference with this hassle is that you know when its coming, unlike the queue popup which can happen at any time.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

You have some time to accept, but once you do accept you're definitely by your computer.

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Its a fairly short timer. If im crafting something handmade I always have to decline since I wont have time to accept.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

If there has some be some sort of solution, the system should just bump the player back to the front of the queue if they re-queue within a minute of missing their original queue.

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That would be a decent solution as well. Can be tricky for the queues that are long because not many people queue for them. (certain story duties, raids)

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Originally Posted by RazeLandale

I don't like the idea of instant cast guass/wanderer's. They should be separate playstyles rather than something you micromanage toggling on and off. And in the case of mch, they've already got their share of micromanaging to do.

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As a WHM ive been stance dancing since launch ( so were SCH ) without any issue so i really dont get whats wrong with that? Not to mention that healers have a lot more stuff to micromanage aside from cleric stance dance and the entire group than BRD and MCH will lever have to.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

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SO because you're lazy with gearing, it's not possible to be geared for alex? i dont know what to tell you. i have already proven there has been plenty of time personally by seeing peopel who hardly even log on for the past 2 weeks are fully geared past i170, im not sure what your excuse is.

the only one you could "fail" this check is if you only logged on 1-2 days out of the week. and skipped most dailies.

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Originally Posted by Brundlefly

I'm not sure you even read the patch notes.

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They've nerfed the potency of Sidewinder and Empyreal Arrow, though, even if you account for the extra 10% added to Wanderer's Minuet.

Empyreal Arrow then: 240 + 20% = ~288.
Empyreal Arrow now: 220 + 30% = ~286.

OK that's not so bad, makes sense in fact, but Sidewinder got destroyed;

Sidewinder then: 350 + 20% = ~420.
Sidewinder now: 250 + 30% = ~325.

Wanderer's Minuet was perhaps fixed, Empyreal Arrow was adjusted to account for that, but Sidewinder has just out right been nerfed. I'll admit I'm no expert on Bard, but the consensus I'd seen was that Wanderer's Minuet was fairly crap to fulltime due to the cast time and loss of auto-attack, that extra 10% should be addressing that issue. Perhaps that 10% on all the other actions will make up for Sidewinder taking a 100 potency hit, though.

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Originally Posted by Sakei

Let me break it down for you. The classes are doing tank dps, and fill a tank slot. Now, please go back and read the patch notes. Then, if you have learned anything at all about critical thinking in your life you can join back in on the conversation.

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Why not actually play the job 1st, test the damage of the new adjustments, and then come back yourself. since all you saw were the negative parts of the adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

SO because you're lazy with gearing, it's not possible to be geared for alex? i dont know what to tell you. i have already proven there has been plenty of time personally by seeing peopel who hardly even log on for the past 2 weeks are fully geared past i170, im not sure what your excuse is.

the only one you could "fail" this check is if you only logged on 1-2 days out of the week. and skipped most dailies.

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Did you miss the part where I dont feel like I should be inconsiderate towards others just because I have a lot of time I can spend on this game?
Do you know why the people that hardly log on are i170? Because they rushed to 60, spammed some dungeons; then got bored and barely log on untill Alex release. I'm sure youll see them log on again a whole lot more (for a while).

Or perhaps you missed the part where being i170 is by no means impossible, just that anyone who took their time to enjoy leveling probably isnt ilvl170 right now.




Still I find it ironic that you would call me lazy. ^_^;;
I suppose you have a point there. After all I've only fully penta melded my gatherers equipment, but still slacking on the crafting equipment!

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Why not actually play the job 1st, test the damage of the new adjustments, and then come back yourself. since all yous aw ones the negative parts of the adjustments.

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In all fairness, I was only responding that way to someone that was incredibly rude. The damage adjustments here are only a 10% increase in an ability that will be switched on and off during rotations. Yes, we can try it out and see but I honestly can't see any increase here even on paper.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

As a slow player, I just don't expect to get into raids when they're first released. The staggering of content exists to keep people who NEED to be on the EDGE satisfied, not me.

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We're on the same boat, it takes me 2 weeks to level from 50 to 60 even I'm a EA player. Too busy with work.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

They've nerfed the potency of Sidewinder and Empyreal Arrow, though, even if you account for the extra 10% added to Wanderer's Minuet.

Empyreal Arrow then: 240 + 20% = ~288.
Empyreal Arrow now: 220 + 30% = ~286.

OK that's not so bad, makes sense in fact, but Sidewinder got destroyed;

Sidewinder then: 350 + 20% = ~420.
Sidewinder now: 250 + 30% = ~325.

Wanderer's Minuet was perhaps fixed, Empyreal Arrow was adjusted to account for that, but Sidewinder has just out right been nerfed.

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Have you count other skills? Both of the skill that you mentioned have long CD, SE reduce Bard burst. Need to check the DPS first, we can't judge yet.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Did you miss the part where I dont feel like I should be inconsiderate towards others just because I have a lot of time I can spend on this game?
Do you know why the people that hardly log on are i170? Because they rushed to 60, spammed some dungeons; then got bored and barely log on untill Alex release. I'm sure youll see them log on again a whole lot more (for a while).

Or perhaps you missed the part where being i170 is by no means impossible, just that anyone who took their time to enjoy leveling probably isnt ilvl170 right now.




Still I find it ironic that you would call me lazy. ^_^;;
I suppose you have a point there. After all I've only fully penta melded my gatherers equipment, but still slacking on the crafting equipment!

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one of them didnt get 60 till a week later... he couldnt have been more slower, not sure how that is "rushing" but ok, what ever helps you sleep at night.

I've been playing since early access and I'm not anywhere near i170 yet. But I kind of expected this as the date for Alexander got closer. And I'm OK with this. I know it'll be waiting for me once I'm i70. And once I am, I'm glad I can jump in.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I've been playing since early access and I'm not anywhere near i170 yet. But I kind of expected this as the date for Alexander got closer. And I'm OK with this. I know it'll be waiting for me once I'm i70. And once I am, I'm glad I can jump in.

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I would not be so bothered by this had there not of been plans to get together and do Alexander with my Coil static tonight so we can do something raid-tier and blind.

Guess I should get to sleep and go kick Fractal in the face like twenty times when I wake up.

I suppose I should state my main frustration with the i170 hard requirement is that high level content has traditionally been (and continued to be) 'locked' to preformed parties and didn't have those requirements in the past. I don't think my group would've had issues with me coming along in full i160. It's the sudden jump that kinda threw me for a loop, and after levelling two classes to 60 to basically run into "but those efforts weren't enough" just kinda sucks.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Getting 170 is easy and quick. I got ilv170 the first day I hit 60. lol.

Only the chest, pants and weapon cost above 215 tomes. You get 80 tomes from completing the new level 60 dungeons, then a 40(iirc) tome bonus if someone is new. On top of that, you can also do expert for that tome bonus. If you are in a FC, you can run dungeons with your friends who recently hit 60 to shovel in those delicious tome bonus'.

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I hate inconsiderate people. Not everybody has what you have and can achieve things the same manner you have for whatever their reasons are….

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Have you count other skills? Both of the skill that you mentioned have long CD, SE reduce Bard burst. Need to check the DPS first, we can't judge yet.

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True, by no means take these as serious numbers (I literally just did it in my head right now, probably some glaring error I'm missing), but the additional DoT potency alone should more than make up for the hit Sidewinder took. Assuming they never drop thanks to Iron Jaws (which I'm not too sure on the workings off), that additional 10% should account for an additional 140 potency in tics from DoTs over 60 seconds (the recast for Sidewinder). That isn't even accounting for other skills in a Bards rotation, just the additional damage from two DoTs which (I assume) should be applied with Wanderer's Minuet and always kept up with Wanderer's Minuet. There is also 3~4 Iron Jaws in there, which should add a total of 30~40 additional, not to mention the initial applying of DoTs offering a whooping 16 more. Not going to bother factoring in Heavy Shot/etc., unless I've completely misunderstood how DoTs work (1 tic/3s?) and/or Iron Jaws, that additional potency at least makes up for Sidewinders nerf and then some, whether that is actually true (again, just worked out quickly and I'm no Bard) and anything extra can push Bard past Tank DPS, I'll leave to someone else.

Anyway, off to actually play 3.01, rather than talk about it~

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Or perhaps you missed the part where being i170 is by no means impossible, just that anyone who took their time to enjoy leveling probably isnt ilvl170 right now.

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People who take their time will take their time to decide to go to the new raid as well.
It got held off so people wouldn't feel like rushing through leveling and gearing.
There's always going to be a difference of opinion over the amount of time is needed.

If someone really wanted to be ready for the raid launch, they had plenty of time to see sights and sounds, get to 60 and get full 170.
If they want to be on the edge of raiding, that is. But if they did a lot more things like crafting and other stuff then being ready for raid launch wasn't a real priority.

I'm really surprised anyone who's really waiting for this launch wouldn't think they should at least get full 170.
It's a Coil type of raid.

The hold off was for hardcore players to not skip the story or rush through leveling. You have to compare it to Coil which was there on release.
But make no mistake, Alex's current release is still for more hardcore players.
They gave just enough time for those players to enjoy the experience, while still prioritizing being raid ready.
And there's still wiggle room since really hardcore is being over 180 ilvl.

So I don't see a huge contradiction here.
They did this so the World First and Server First guilds wouldn't feel compelled to power level with the competition right out the gate.
That's who they were talking to when they said we'd have time.

A casual player, well they might not even touch Alex until a catch up raid like Crystal Tower is released in 3.1.
That's how it was for Coil. Even with the savage vs normal difficulties, Alexander (normal) was still presented as a hardcore raid compared to something like CT.
So I don't know why people would think a 2 week hold off meant you would be able to experience all of HW before Alexander came out, or a guaranteed entry if you had limited time.
All it meant was that the race didn't start on launch.

You shouldn't care about that race if you have limited time, or you have other priorities (which is completely reasonable).
In that case, you can get to the raid on your own time. And the 2-week gating already did its job.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

I hate inconsiderate people. Not everybody has what you have and can achieve things the same manner you have for whatever their reasons are….

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Not sure how it's inconsiderate. :)

Everyone can gain access to the new dungeons and the newbie/expert bonus'. Not everyone has a FC though. Which, if you don't have one, I suggest getting one! Not just to leech tome bonus', but for the many other perks.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Not sure how it's inconsiderate. :)

Everyone can gain access to the new dungeons and the newbie/expert bonus'. Not everyone has a FC though. Which, if you don't have one, I suggest getting one! Not just to leech tome bonus', but for the many other perks.

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Im afraid it is being inconsiderate. Not everyone has the time to collect 3865~ tomes (yes, I counted them just for you) in a single day.
Not to mention unlike 2 weeks ago you arent going to get the new player bonus for every single dungeon you do either. :)


This isnt a discussion about how fast this would be to do in the future. (taking a week or two weeks to gear up to i170 isnt much time, compared to months of gameplay) But rather the stoic conclusion that taking your time in leveling in early heavensward (or perhaps more accurately, reducing your time at 60; and dungeon farming) does put you at a disadvantage with Alexanders release.

For some people there's more to the game then just raiding(but they do still enjoy raiding!), which is why SE said ''take your time to enjoy the game during these 2 weeks''.


On a sidenote:
What point is there to having an i160 dungeon set? Since you are farming those dungeons for the i170 set anyway.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

People who take their time will take their time to decide to go to the new raid as well.
It got held off so people wouldn't feel like rushing through leveling and gearing.
There's always going to be a difference of opinion over the amount of time is needed.

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It got held off so people didnt feel like they had to choose between enjoying their leveling time, and rushing to max level/gearing law to be in time for the raid.

This is not an argument between casual and hardcore as some seem to think. It's about enjoying one form of content (leveling) vs enjoying another form of content (raiding).


The hardcore argument is only being brought up since some people insist that getting to level 60 in a day, and gearing up to i170 in the same day is the norm.
(which ironically, oh so very ironically; makes me wonder just how little life some people have)

Hello, so were the brd/mch changes great or no? how important is 10% dmg compared to the lower potency on skill changes? if it is a strong dmg boost to both classes then that's a great thing.

I honestly expected there to be no df + no ilvl requirement for a while like coil & ex primals

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On a sidenote:
What point is there to having an i160 dungeon set? Since you are farming those dungeons for the i170 set anyway.

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Well, that's sort of the point - to get you interim gear.

That said I think the biggest awkwardness in going to i170 right now is that there is Only One Method At All. Crafted gear doesn't fit. Dungeon drops are insufficient. Hunts just jump that gear up further. The only exception is the Primals and that's solely for weapon slot. It's just... kinda awkward. Like, would it really have been so bad to cut Law Tomestone stuff down ten levels (and everything following similarly)? Because for being brand new gear the i160 feels just kinda... pointless. Nonfunctional. Etc.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Hello, so were the brd/mch changes great or no? how important is 10% dmg compared to the lower potency on skill changes? if it is a strong dmg boost to both classes then that's a great thing.

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To my understanding, yes. The loss of potency on those skills is evened out largely by the extra % damage (It's slightly lower in every case though), while everything else is stronger. The big one though is that you can swap into Wanderer's/Gauss instantly now, so swapping on the fly is an actual legitimate option now, whereas before the cast time meant you were almost always better off comitting to one or the other. This frees them up to optimize their play and might actually have a bigger impact than the +10% potency.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Anyone going to buy Tataru or Alsaie on mog station?

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I bought Tataru. Couldn't help myself. I've been in love with her new voice actress ever since I first played the masterpiece that is Xenoblade Chronicles. "Let's press on and on AND ON!"

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Hello, so were the brd/mch changes great or no? how important is 10% dmg compared to the lower potency on skill changes? if it is a strong dmg boost to both classes then that's a great thing.

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How many skills are in your rotation?
2 of them (those that are not spammed) got hit. One slightly, one quite a bit.
Conclusion? You will do more damage with WM on, no questions.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

only 3 achievement of map, means 3 floor.
fist, cuff and arm.

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BCob only has an achievement for four out of five turns, SCoB only has three out of four, and FCoB only has two out of four.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

It got held off so people didnt feel like they had to choose between enjoying their leveling time, and rushing to max level/gearing law to be in time for the raid.

This is not an argument between casual and hardcore as some seem to think. It's about enjoying one form of content (leveling) vs enjoying another form of content (raiding).

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You just repeated what I said. It gave enough time to do that.
You only need to be "in time for the raid" if you care about the progression race.
People who play that way had enough time to experience the leveling fully and gear up in time for that.
This is opposed to the race starting as soon as launch happened.

Like people who care about the race still have to put raiding as their priority.
This allowed people who want to be on the cutting edge to not have to skip everything while leveling.
But those type of players are still the ones with more time and dedication to raiding.


You can enjoy raiding and you're not at any "disadvantage" if you wanted more time.
You only need to be on time if you're trying to race progression. Otherwise, the raid is available whenever you're ready.
So those people can enjoy their leveling and then enjoy their raiding. What's the issue?

Holding it off so the race doesn't start at launch was a good thing. But artificially gating it for too long is bad.
There are some people who've farmed out the Ex Primals, and are just waiting for Alexander to open.
It shouldn't be held back because there are other people experiencing other things. They can experience those things and then go raid when they feel like it.

It really only got held off so that the leveling experience wasn't obsolete for people who cared about being cutting edge.
Since those are the people who have the most time and dedication to the game, 2 weeks was enough so that the story content wasn't obsolete on launch.
If someone is later than that, well they shouldn't expect to be on the cutting edge anyway.
They should just enjoy the content on their own time, instead of asking for more of an extended gate and holding back the players who are already prepared.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Im afraid it is being inconsiderate. Not everyone has the time to collect 3865~ tomes (yes, I counted them just for you) in a single day.

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Never said everyone has the time to collect them all in one day. I said they were quick and easy to farm. And it's true. Gear costs a lot less tomes than past sets. And dungeons give more tomes than ever before. Never mind the bonus'.

Still not sure how what I said was inconsiderate. I'm not trying to be "sassy" either. I legit don't get it.