Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

For new players that you are posting for, all of the 2.x content will be new to them anyways. So try and see it from that viewpoint, not as repeating the same content.

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I agree with you, though.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's still an MMO, so gameplay should technically take a front seat, or at least be sitting with plot (FFXI balanced this out by letting you unlock Jobs before even starting the expansions storyline). By the way and I said this in another thread: an MMO community should never tell people to leave. The only time you ever tell someone to leave is if they have no interest in the game whatsoever and only after you try to reel them in.

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Seriously...take a chill pill. Not the first post to point out that this game may not be for some of these players that don't like how they are gating the content.

It's a freaking joke dude (or did you not catch the Hitch-hikers reference? maybe this image will jog the memory...if not, click the image for the video)

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...fZ-HqoD50soI1d

"This is not WoW" is another sort of meme reference too. Perhaps you weren't there for them.

But the simple fact remains, that this is a game in the FF franchise, designed by Japanese developers--and they have a fairly well established and consistent way of doing things. It isn't for everybody. That is why you had a sort of rivalry thing going between XI and WoW for so long---each catered to specific types of players. SE is just continuing their tradition. Some like it, some don't. Players will come, players will stay, and some will leave. That's just how it has always been, and how it will always be.

really dont know why people keep complaining about stuff locked behind main story quests.. almost every final fantasy game has always been heavy story based,, plenty of games around that dont have any story whatsoever and everything available to you right from the start just a dull boring grind fest mmo with few quests so mayb go try 1 of those since by all the complaining those types of games are obviously more suited to the Q.Qers

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Considering someone payed 40 dollars (In the US anyways) to have access to the content, there's no good reason why they shouldn't at least be allowed to step through the gates. Sure gate story quests behind progressing through the story, that actually makes sense, but not the entire region.

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Then don't pay the $40 until you know you can access the content?

I really cannot believe some of the stuff I am hearing in here. What new player would want to start the game from the beginning? Who would want to skip so much of the game?? I mean if you were that interested you should have started from the beginning. But if I was starting now I would power through and still enjoy the story and then catch up to Heavensward. I am glad they are "Gating" the expansion it will help keep RMT bastard out of our game a little better than it is now. For the crafters out there that rush to get stuff done and make 100's of millions that you will never spend and that is all you do...too damn bad for you...play the game and stop just crafting. This is not a crafting game it is a frigging awesome story Warrior of Light game that has crafting in it...get over it. LOL

Here's something interesting....they even tell you up front that you have to progress to a certain point in the story before you can access Heavensward

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* In order to enjoy the benefits of early access to Heavensward content, you need to be playing FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn and have made sufficient progress in the main scenario. As such, early access will not be available to new players who pre-order the FINAL FANTASY XIV Online all-in-one bundle and have yet to begin their adventures.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavensward/ - it's on the Product page where you see what you get and the prices and such.

So... in all honesty, these new players should pretty much expect to have to do main story before they can access the expansion content.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Here's something interesting....they even tell you up front that you have to progress to a certain point in the story before you can access Heavensward

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavensward/ - it's on the Product page where you see what you get and the prices and such.

So... in all honesty, these new players should pretty much expect to have to do main story before they can access the expansion content.

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new players would be more interested in playing through n amazing storyline n exploring a gorgeous world.. accessing ishgard is gonna be the least of thier worries since the whole game is new to them

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Originally Posted by Raist

Here's something interesting....they even tell you up front that you have to progress to a certain point in the story before you can access Heavensward

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That isnt exactly true now is it?
You dont have to progress to a certain point in the msq you have to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

new players would be more interested in playing through n amazing storyline n exploring a gorgeous world.. accessing ishgard is gonna be the least of thier worries since the whole game is new to them

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Are you sure? Most in this thread seem to think a new player is only concerned with creating a specfic class that they have no idea about. In a game where they have no experiece. They don't care about the huge experience you get with playing through the game and story. They only say "Hey, this game has a class called Machinist! I'm going to buy it!"

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

That isnt exactly true now is it?
You dont have to progress to a certain point in the msq you have to complete it.

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I think what he means is that SE has made it sufficiently clear before you even purchase the expansion that just purchasing it will not grant you access to all of the content.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

That isnt exactly true now is it?
You dont have to progress to a certain point in the msq you have to complete it.

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Now you are just arguing semantics, aren't you? If you want to be technical about it... they aren't finishing the story if they are just starting out now, as the MSQ is continuing into a new chapter. So they are working their way up through the end of Before the Fall in order to progress into Heavensward, and beyond into what ever they add from v3.1 going forward.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

That isnt exactly true now is it?
You dont have to progress to a certain point in the msq you have to complete it.

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Well, given that they are adding more MSQ, you do not have to complete it. It seems far from over to me...

HW areas are likely to open up free for all only after several major patches, when the HW story have progressed enough that it makes sense to open up more.
Ishgard itself will be open early, but not the surrounding areas.

The only players I see miffed about this, honestly, are those with crafter alts built to cover the whole desynth spectrum today, and the whole specialization spectrum with HW.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Well, given that they are adding more MSQ, you do not have to complete it. It seems far from over to me...

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Think that is the source of the big disconnect here. This isn't a side-story type of expansion---it is continuing the story. It just makes sense that new people would need to start at the beginning and work through it. Heavensward isn't a sort of stand-alone component--it builds off everything that came before it...so you need to do what came first before you start it.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Think that is the source of the big disconnect here. This isn't a side-story type of expansion---it is continuing the story. It just makes sense that new people would need to start at the beginning and work through it. Heavensward isn't a sort of stand-alone component--it builds off everything that came before it...so you need to do what came first before you start it.

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But!

But!

I want it now!

On a more serious note. The story feels to me like we are still barely out of the starting gates on a really epic adventure. Ijust hope the game stays alive long enough to tell the whole thing. I mean, we havent even left one continent yet. lots more to come.

Ishgard is an exclusive club. Just like some clubs won't let you in the door if you aren't known in hollywood, Ishgard won't let you in unless you've been accused of regicide. And no, moogle kings don't count.

You all just want to rub shoulders with the criminally accused, but you need to EARN that privilege.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Are you sure? Most in this thread seem to think a new player is only concerned with creating a specfic class that they have no idea about. In a game where they have no experiece. They don't care about the huge experience you get with playing through the game and story. They only say "Hey, this game has a class called Machinist! I'm going to buy it!"

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imo they are just using the "new player" excuse in hopes SE think hold on they might be on to somethin here lol if a group of new players feel that way guaranteed it will be the minority of them... i know when i buy a new game or download 1 i havent tried with friends im more excited for a new gaming experince not what class i cant play yet lol

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Originally Posted by Raist

Think that is the source of the big disconnect here. This isn't a side-story type of expansion---it is continuing the story. It just makes sense that new people would need to start at the beginning and work through it. Heavensward isn't a sort of stand-alone component--it builds off everything that came before it...so you need to do what came first before you start it.

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With that philosophy then no one should be able to raid any content or do any dungeons until they have finished all the raids and dungeons up to HW.

Yeah i've been saying this for awhile now. I have pretty much everything done in ARR, i have an alt that is almost finished with the MSQ. But even though i am fine, i really do sympathize with people that are disappointed they aren't able to play their favorite FF jobs straight away. I know why SE has done this though, and i guess not everything should be handed out but damn.

I'm ok with this, but they can't do any DoW or DoM quests. Main story Quest.. and require 99 HQ 4 star items for DoH or 3 Star HQ DoL


The main reason for the Lock out is RMTs

Time it take for RMT to get to 50 + main story quest + make gil in HW only to get banned. Will slow down RMTs

I think we're all not thinking about this in the correct way, so here is the way I see it. I don't think a content-lock would have been put in place without some serious thought put behind it, so let me explain.

Everything we've done in this game has always been finely tuned, refined & catered toward players of a specific ilvl range. Everyone seems to forget that ilvl requirements have been a thing in this game for a really long time, and no one seemed to care about that.

We've also had 5 major content updates, all raising the bar at the same level cap of 50. Obviously there is going to be a HUGE gap in someone who is i130 versus someone who is a fresh 50 in i50-60 gear. So lets take this i50-60 geared individual, lets throw them in a 2.4/2.5 dungeon or what ever and now lets see how they deal with content not fully understanding their skill-set, rotations, or even simple mechanics. They can't even do Titan HM in that gear let alone stay alive due to lack of experience with said mechanics.

Now think of HW in the same light, do you really think a fresh 50 stepping foot into Ishgard / exploring new HW content with this skill-set & gear is a good idea? Most of them would be miserable if anything. I would presume HW has been catered & balanced around Steps of Faith ilvl requirements (which is around i90).

So how did SE decide to get around this? Sure content-gating is a thing, but for good reason. It has been said numerous times how SE plans to get around this. For one, main-scenario quest will yield a much higher exp gain than ever before. This means newer players will be stepping into HW content above the current level cap of 50. All the main-scenario quest are now also going to yield meaningful gear rewards as well, so when those new players do finish 2.55 main-scenario quest they will be more than ready & prepared to meet the challenges of HW.

This route also prolongs the lifespan of the current content that will now be obsolete to most of us by the time HW launches. I've had a hell of an experience on this game when 2.0 relaunched, I would hope that others get to have those experiences as well. A new 50 joining the game as it is now has an IMMENSE amount of content available to them as it is now. You should value the experience of newer players, they've not seen or played through the things we have. If we allow them to bypass all of that would you really want those players running the same dungeons & potentially raiding with you?

So what about the current level 50s that are returning after having quit? Honestly I don't think it will take long for them to power through main-scenario quests. Sure some may not make it by HW launch, but I also don't understand what the rush is. No real meaningful content will be available to us until 2 weeks / 4 weeks post HW launch. Everyone is going to have plenty of time to prepare and get ready for it. If they/anyone are so concerned about being that first level 60 on a new class, guess what, this wouldn't be a problem for them then would it?

Now what about the new jobs also being locked? Well for one all the new classes start at level 30 but require access to Ishgard to unlock them, meaning a player will have to be level 50 at the minimum to even access them, that being said do you expect someone completely unfamiliar to the game to be able to pick up and play a level 30 class? I wouldn't think so, and neither should any of you.

Anyway thats my two cents.

To all those that want this to be a feature, why are you playing Final fantasy XIV? Seriously the franchise is known for it's story lines, people who are asking to cut that very thing out just seem to make absolutely no sense. So very many aspects of this game are amazing but in the end there is very few things that make it revolutionary ( save perhaps for it's amazing story line inclusion to a mmorpg ). Those those that pay monthly for this game purposely let the developers know in no uncertain terms, this is what we want, this is the setting, characters, story, graphics, environment. Wanting to skip this means your here spending money on what exactly? What keeps you in Erozea, Final Fantasy XIV, if not the way it is meant to be played?

My simple mind can only surmise, if one wants to be able skip through gated content, achieve end game status/ perks for themselves with little to no effort, then truly your not here to play FFXIV, not really.

There are many other games out there with better graphics (debatable), combat systems (debatable), story line (heh, who am I kidding WoW's attempt still makes me laugh, yeah i'm biased this one is the best imo), at this point it really seems like people are just jumping on to the band wagon so many of us have been leading for years... and upset they don't have better seats. Yeah the popularity of this game is soaring, it's obvious people are clamoring to get in to. Starting as everyone else does is not a punishment, the new jobs are not new roles that currently do not exist when you choose your first class, in fact you need those new classes to make the most of the new jobs, as they are intrinsically tied to each other via cross class skills. Using the fact that many want to play as an Astrologian, Dark Knight, or Machinist is less than a weak argument. You don't run before you walk, you don't get to be something more advanced before you learn basics, something the MSQ inherently teaches you.

It's a bit out of context but seriously just listen to the lyrics of the opening... " Look to those who walked before to leads those who walk after..."
It's just a game i know, but seriously some of these request would simply, idiotically, change this game and not in the way people who want to keep playing Final Fantasy XIV would enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Alish

Now what about the new jobs also being locked? Well for one all the new classes start at level 30, that being said do you expect someone completely unfamiliar to the game to be able to pick up and play a level 30 class? I wouldn't think so, and neither should any of you.

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A bit confused about this. Are you implying they get to start on the level 30 Job on the get go, or after they get a class to 30 and 15?
What's so wrong about giving newbies more job options to play when they hit level 30?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

A bit confused about this. Are you implying they get to start on the level 30 Job on the get go, or after they get a class to 30 and 15?

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All the new classes start at level 30 outright. But you are required to have access to HW to access them.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

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Some folks might want to play as an Au Ra through their first run through Eorzea. Alternatively they've got the extra money to buy it now, but might not in the future so they're buying it while they can.

I mean, IMHO WoW did this stuff better, as long as you had actually bought the expansion you could go to Outlands or Northrend, you couldn't do stuff there, but you could. Considering WoW is even less DoH/DoL based than FFXIV, there isn't a proper excuse. Story based or not, there's alternative things SE could do to allow DoH/DoL into Ishgard but they chose not too.

Oh and don't say "If you like WoW better the doors that way" It's condescending and doesn't properly answer the issue. WoW can do some things better just as FFXIV does a lot of things better.

To the OP: Look at it like this, I can understand your frustration....but this does 2 things that help the community as whole. First, now the in-game market is going to be strongly top base as it should be....why you ask? Because now gil sellers will have to grind a toon all the way to 50 to gain access to the new crafting materials by doing the MSQ.....is it a fix....by far no, but it surely is one heck of a roadblock that I can truly see! Second, I do not want to relive my days in WoW in where once you got to level 58 there was a influx of bad tanks in-game with players going as a Death Knight that had no clue how to tank....if you were there like I was as I know some of you were....you remember those times and it stunk!!!! Lastly, there are plenty of games out there for people with solely interested in just crafting: Minecraft, DayZ, and numerous others.....Final Fantasy is a story based game as it has been since FF1 in 1987. If you only play the game for crafting.....maybe you should look at other multiplayer games out there that its sole focus is that which may better suit you, but whatever you choose.....good luck to you.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I feel sorry for new players who have to go through the entire main quest just to get into the expansion.

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Yes, how horrible it must be for a new player to try out FFXIV, find themselves thinking "this game fun enough to subscribe to and continue playing" and then having loads of untouched content ahead of them to enjoy. Clearly the core game is trash and the only game worth playing rests beyond the borders of Ishgard. :rolleyes:

Oh no!

Story requirements in a story based franchise!

In other news, water still wet.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

With that philosophy then no one should be able to raid any content or do any dungeons until they have finished all the raids and dungeons up to HW.

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Depends on what those raids are built around. If they are standalone and specific to Ishgard lore, then not so much---those with access to Ishgard should be able to access them once they meet the Heavensward requirements. But... if it is an extension of something like the Allaghan stories (CT/ST/WoD line...stories around Cid, G'raha, Nero--remember there are loose ends there), then yes... they should run that older content first before unlocking new content along that path.

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Originally Posted by Alish

All the new classes start at level 30 outright. But you are required to have access to HW to access them.

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Has SE stated you still need X class at 30 and 15 to play as the new Jobs? or will they be the only Jobs in the game where you can just walk into a building and instantly have a level 30 tanking, healing and/or DPS Job?

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Originally Posted by Madruck

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Considering I doubt the DoH and DoL aren't asking to instantly get level 60 tanks and just be able to go to Ishgard to continue gathering. Keep in mind people, SE is also apparently planning of making the story even easier (Well, I've read one or two things about that, but I can't exactly remember if it's true) to go through, which makes the claim "It's to slow down RMTs from expansion stuff!" just as bunk. They make it easier for new players, they make it easier for gil sellers as well.

People want to play FFXIV and they want to craft in it, maybe all their friends are going through combat stuff and they've chosen to be the FC crafter for everyone, why punish them for that? If SE isn't going to accommodate for people who love primarily doing DoH/DoL things and allow them to also access new content, why bother even having it? Plus they're ways to integrate DoH/DoL into Ishgard, SE just hasn't done it, a very simple thing of "Holy smokes PC! Ishgard is suddenly coming to us begging for business and is willing to give you a work visa! All that business in Ul'dah and sudden continuation of the Dravanian assault must have caused them to seek independent DoH/DoL for labor! Go get your butt up in there and craft for them!" There, suddenly 2.55 to 3.0 related story content for DoH/DoL.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Has SE stated you still need X class at 30 and 15 to play as the new Jobs? or will they be the only Jobs in the game where you can just walk into a building and instantly have a level 30 tanking, healing and/or DPS Job?

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They will not have any job pre-requisites to access them, the only thing required is access to Ishgard. I assume there is going to be a job quest to full-fill but once that is done they will have access to play that new job that will start at level 30.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Some folks might want to play as an Au Ra through their first run through Eorzea. Alternatively they've got the extra money to buy it now, but might not in the future so they're buying it while they can.

I mean, IMHO WoW did this stuff better, as long as you had actually bought the expansion you could go to Outlands or Northrend, you couldn't do stuff there, but you could. Considering WoW is even less DoH/DoL based than FFXIV, there isn't a proper excuse. Story based or not, there's alternative things SE could do to allow DoH/DoL into Ishgard but they chose not too.

Oh and don't say "If you like WoW better the doors that way" It's condescending and doesn't properly answer the issue. WoW can do some things better just as FFXIV does a lot of things better.

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Au'ra, level cap increases and new job skills/quests are not gated, the only thing that completion is required for is Ishgard and the areas beyond it and (naturally) the jobs you unlock IN Ishgard.

So... the argument about "not allowing newbies to start at level 30" can still apply to people new to healing and tanking (those who have beaten Steps of Faith). Imagine having someone who has never touched GLA and MRD as your DRK tank for Haukke Manor or Brayflox. Double whammy with a DRK and AST combo (neither of which have touched GLA/MRD or CNJ).

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

With that philosophy then no one should be able to raid any content or do any dungeons until they have finished all the raids and dungeons up to HW.

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Most of the post 2.0 dungeons are self contained side quests. So no, that philosophy doesn't apply.

And without spoiling much, the events in the Binding Coil of Bahamut are very self contained. I don't expect any connection, besides perhaps a minor throwback.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

So... the argument about "not allowing newbies to start at level 30" can still apply to people new to healing and tanking (those who have beaten Steps of Faith). Imagine having someone who has never touched GLA and MRD as your DRK tank for Haukke Manor or Brayflox. Double whammy with a DRK and AST combo (neither of which have touched GLA/MRD or CNJ).

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But those players will at-least be somewhat familiar with the content and how things are suppose to play out somewhat, so its not going to be as bad as someone who is fresh. Also having played with the same jobs in group compositions for awhile I think it should be easy for those players to understand the -basic- role that those jobs fulfill.

I will agree I think something could have been done to not content-lock the new jobs but with the approach SE has made toward this, this is the circumstance we have to deal with unfortunately.

Welp, we almost went a week without this thread again. Hasn't this been argued to death already? I mean I haven't seen an original thought or idea that wasn't already stated and debated to death in the 15 other threads about this. It's just not happening and the most poignant reason is that the dev team has spoken and the only thing that will change their mind at this point is if this gating doesn't work come release, but it will because the MSQ is being made even easier and reward more exp.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Au'ra, level cap increases and new job skills/quests are not gated, the only thing that completion is required for is Ishgard and the areas beyond it and (naturally) the jobs you unlock IN Ishgard.

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We actually have no idea if the new job quests are gated. For all we know Level 55 WHM takes place in Ishgard communing with the elements there. Good luck grinding to 60 in areas that aren't scaled or have leves for folks past 50, which considering they've stated "Going through 50-60 will take as long as 1-50" it'll be an extraordinaire event to witness someone do that. And again, Au Ra (Specifically the Raen) make a hilariously little amount of sense being in Eorzea prior to 2.2's stuff, you can argue "You're just a body of light!" all you want, but Yugiri acting like she needs to wear a mask to prevent panic when you're playing as the exact thing she is makes absolutely 0 sense.

Again, SE can interweave DoH/DoL quests and give them a reason to go to Ishgard that works well within the story of FFXIV, but they haven't and that's just silly.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

We actually have no idea if the new job quests are gated.

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We actually do. It has been explicitly stated numerous times, during the latest Live Letters, that all of the new job guilds are in Ishgard. Which are officially translated and posted on these forums. If you chose not to read them, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

We actually have no idea if the new job quests are gated. For all we know Level 55 WHM takes place in Ishgard communing with the elements there. Good luck grinding to 60 in areas that aren't scaled or have leves for folks past 50, which considering they've stated "Going through 50-60 will take as long as 1-50" it'll be an extraordinaire event to witness someone do that. And again, Au Ra (Specifically the Raen) make a hilariously little amount of sense being in Eorzea prior to 2.2's stuff, you can argue "You're just a body of light!" all you want, but Yugiri acting like she needs to wear a mask to prevent panic when you're playing as the exact thing she is makes absolutely 0 sense.

Again, SE can interweave DoH/DoL quests and give them a reason to go to Ishgard that works well within the story of FFXIV, but they haven't and that's just silly.

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IIRC the job quests are available every 2 levels. 52-54-56-58-60?