Dear Yoshi P: What is your vision?

Updated second post with more quotes.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I had this sneaky feeling the moment I mentioned 'armory system', that you'd magically appear and start your "they're breaking the armory system" rhetoric.

Please don't start it again in this thread.

Oh, but first, I'm fairly sure Tanaka mentioned at some point during the games development/launch that they had at least 30 classes planned for the game.
(Don't ask me to prove this point, this is information that was passed on to me from someone else and so without proof to prove it is wrong I am happy to accept that it is right)

I have never seen Yoshi say this was not still being done.

End of 'armory system' conversation.

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i don't remember the exact number either, but i do know he had plans for quite a few more classes to be in the game. i know a few of them already had guilds setup in the different cities, but they were never put in. you are right there was more to be added, but they were classes not jobs according to the original ideals. classes were you get them and you start from scratch and level them, but jobs are whatever rank you are once you get the job you get the same rank on both.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i don't remember the exact number either, but i do know he had plans for quite a few more classes to be in the game. i know a few of them already had guilds setup in the different cities, but they were never put in. you are right there was more to be added, but they were classes not jobs according to the original ideals. classes were you get them and you start from scratch and level them, but jobs are whatever rank you are once you get the job you get the same rank on both.

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Indeed, that's what I remember hearing of it too.

This would result in 30 classes -> 30 jobs.

Since the guilds for classes that aren't in the game currently haven't been removed, it is, at the moment, fair to assume that the implimentation of a great deal of extra classes is still something they plan to do.

I'd guess the only reason they chose to add-in some jobs first before adding some more extra classes is to allow players to get used to way jobs operate, and receive feedback on it to give them a better idea of what players would prefer from current/future jobs.
Also adding more classes this early before larger and more difficult content was released would only complicate things further instead of possessing the 100+ or whatever number amount of skills you can currently possess with the armory system, you'd be waving around a whooping 200/300+ skills.

Jobs help to condense those skills down to ones you'd NEED in a party instead of going "err... i THINK this one might be usefull, and I THINK this may be too, but I could be here all day going through this ridicuously enormous list of skills."

And since we would assume every class in the game would gain a job to go with it... that's a whole lot of different ways to play the game.

So armory system being undermined?

From where I'm sitting it looks more like it's being boosted more-so than the original design plan.

i wasn't the one that said it was being undermined, but to an extent i feel it is being done. my reasons are different, but i can take some or it if it turns out better for the overall game.

the thing that killed me was like conjurer becoming the main healer, best at reviving, more overall nukes, and more dot's and the thm got annihilated in the process. that and the usage of the skillful play of knowing the right basic attack to use in what situation was a nice thing if the time was taken to use properly and not just 1 spammed to now just equip all 3 and use them as fast as you can. to me those are steps back, but like i said if it comes true that later it is for the betterment of the game i can take them.

i know where user feels it is being undermined in the extent that skills that were able to be used on other classes since day 1 have been taken away and made almost unusable in some other classes is alot to take in. there were alot that liked the original system and was actually one of the few things that got good reviews on the game originally, but they had left due to lack of things to actually do.

the armory system in its original form did need alot of work to become a good system, but to me with tweaks here and there it could have been one of the things that actually had ffxiv stand out from the standard mmo.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i wasn't the one that said it was being undermined, but to an extent i feel it is being done. my reasons are different, but i can take some or it if it turns out better for the overall game.

the thing that killed me was like conjurer becoming the main healer, best at reviving, more overall nukes, and more dot's and the thm got annihilated in the process. that and the usage of the skillful play of knowing the right basic attack to use in what situation was a nice thing if the time was taken to use properly and not just 1 spammed to now just equip all 3 and use them as fast as you can. to me those are steps back, but like i said if it comes true that later it is for the betterment of the game i can take them.

i know where user feels it is being undermined in the extent that skills that were able to be used on other classes since day 1 have been taken away and made almost unusable in some other classes is alot to take in. there were alot that liked the original system and was actually one of the few things that got good reviews on the game originally, but they had left due to lack of things to actually do.

the armory system in its original form did need alot of work to become a good system, but to me with tweaks here and there it could have been one of the things that actually had ffxiv stand out from the standard mmo.

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It's not that so much that as it is imposing roles upon people instead of letting people build their own roles is a concept that flies in the face of the freedom which the armory system was supposed to afford people. Jobs should be implemented to HELP people define their roles, not to impose them upon players. People complain that the armory system makes homogenous players that all use the same abilities etc., but the job system which forces people into clones is what will create an even more homogenous environment. But this has gone off topic now. A bit.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

It's not that so much as imposing roles upon people instead of letting people build their own roles is a concept that flies in the face of the freedom which the armory system was supposed to afford people. Jobs should be implemented to HELP people define their roles, not to impose them upon players. People complain that the armory system makes homogenous players that all use the same abilities etc., but the job system which forces people into clones is what will create an even more homogenous environment. But this has gone off topic now. A bit.

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well i can take up for that in part. yes, the 1 to 1 that the jobs will originally create will force people into one direction, but they did say they will have multiple jobs for each class. once they get out multiple ways to take your character i hope that it does what you are talking about and helps that class become better at one thing instead of forcing you to be that one thing.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i wasn't the one that said it was being undermined,

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I know, sorry, I was aiming it as user234908s345987t098234f2349087u23456.

@Darkstar: Your input is constructive and personally I appreciate you contributing to the thread debate (b'.')b

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I know, sorry, I was aiming it as user234908s345987t098234f2349087u23456.

@Darkstar: Your input is constructive and personally I appreciate you contributing to the thread debate (b'.')b

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thanks same to you. i may not agree with what someone else has to say, but as long as they are willing to discuss reasons and not use the stop the QQ and quit the game i can discuss my opinions happily. i will say these 2 threads we are on is the first time since the forums opened that it feels people are discussing and not attacking personally(for the most part lol)

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

well i can take up for that in part. yes, the 1 to 1 that the jobs will originally create will force people into one direction, but they did say they will have multiple jobs for each class. once they get out multiple ways to take your character i hope that it does what you are talking about and helps that class become better at one thing instead of forcing you to be that one thing.

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Do you know how long it took for each class to be released in FFXI? You were lucky if you got a couple every year or so.

It's just a huge commitment when they needn't create jobs in that specific way. There are ways to implement a job system which does not conflict with the armoury system and merely builds upon it, for less effort, and less wasted time.

They are basically just doing it all wrong in a bid to appeal to people's fandom rather than create a good game.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

thanks same to you. i may not agree with what someone else has to say, but as long as they are willing to discuss reasons and not use the stop the QQ and quit the game i can discuss my opinions happily. i will say these 2 threads we are on is the first time since the forums opened that it feels people are discussing and not attacking personally(for the most part lol)

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I'd love Yoshi to come on the thread now and post links to each post within the thread that was dead on or close to what he's aiming for.

Then add a post telling us exactly what he thinks of user2340n234987o3489756o9873425b349587.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Do you know how long it took for each class to be released in FFXI? You were lucky if you got a couple every year or so.

It's just a huge commitment when they needn't create jobs in that specific way. There are ways to implement a job system which does not conflict with the armoury system and merely builds upon it, for less effort, and less wasted time.

They are basically just doing it all wrong in a bid to appeal to people's fandom rather than create a good game.

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I'll give you 1 chance and 1 chance only. Explain to us this revolutionary job system you have created in your head that would not interfere with the armory in any way shape or form, instead of just saying that it's possible.

Also as many have said in the past, if you don't believe this is a good game, why are you playing it?

And to add my own opinion ontop, given that within a year the core mechanics of the game have been gutted and re-purposed into a more globally user-friendly system, as well as the content updates we've received so far and knowledge of what is soon to come, I'd say they've made quick progress.

If you jobs come out before the end of the year, they've made exceptionally quick progress to add that many new battle jobs to the game. Once the core mechanics are then fixed and they begin working on large content updates and possibly an expansion pack, we will probably begin to see classes, jobs and many other things being added into the game at a much faster rate.

EDIT: You cannot use examples from FFXI to dictate possibilities in FFXIV, this is not FFXI-2 nor will it ever be.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I'll give you 1 chance and 1 chance only. Explain to us this revolutionary job system you have created in your head that would not interfere with the armory in any way shape or form, instead of just saying that it's possible.

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Basically don't lock classes to jobs. That's all anyone's asking for.

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Also as many have said in the past, if you don't believe this is a good game, why are you playing it?

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I don't know why you try to make everything so personal, but FYI, surely I am more at liberty to ask YOU why YOU are playing this game since it's obviously your agenda to ruin all existing systems: Armory system, crafting system. Well it seems that way from your posts.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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And to add my own opinion ontop, given that within a year the core mechanics of the game have been gutted and re-purposed into a more globally user-friendly system,

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Again, why do all these people play a game they want gutted and mutilated? Also, a more user-friendly system is what SE hope to achieve, but unfortunately what they will get will be the self-same user-unfriendly system they had at launch (still waiting for drag n drop UI enhancements and Jump) with none of the depth the game was released with, and a bit more content.

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as well as the content updates we've received so far and knowledge of what is soon to come, I'd say they've made quick progress.

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They've made quick regress, couldn't say the same about progress. They remove too much and create too little.

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If you jobs come out before the end of the year, they've made exceptionally quick progress to add that many new battle jobs to the game.

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That's not progress if it is development in the wrong direction.

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Once the core mechanics are then fixed and they begin working on large content updates and possibly an expansion pack, we will probably begin to see classes, jobs and many other things being added into the game at a much faster rate.

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Yes, you keep believing that. And I am not disputing THE RATE OF CHANGE, I am disputing the DIRECTION OF CHANGE. They can implement stuff at lightning speed, that won't mean a thing if the changes destroy the game instead of improve it.

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EDIT: You cannot use examples from FFXI to dictate possibilities in FFXIV, this is not FFXI-2 nor will it ever be.

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Sure it was a slightly irrelevant parallel, but you'd be surprised at how much like FFXI FFXIV is now.

/quote everything

I'm am playing this game because I enjoy it, I like the world it's based in, the races involved in said world, I like chocobos and moogles, and I like online games. It is my agenda to play a game I like and adapt myself to enjoy any changes that come into it for the sole purpose of enjoying a source of entertainment.

I have corrected the wrongness.

As for disputing the direction of change, game designers sometimes have to sacrifice certain elements that a few people enjoy in order to include elements that a lot of people enjoy. In cases like this, it's better to lose a few to keep many, than to lose many and keep only a few (e.g/ if you dropped a bag of candy, would you attempt to catch the bag that has most of the candy in it, or the few pieces of candy that fell out of the bag before they hit the ground?)

Many people are posting positive responses to the direction this game is going in, they believe the game is getting better, only a few are expressing a negative opinion, saying the direction will destroy the game. You are one of those few.

Also, not user friendly UI? Have you seen the sheer degree of positive response they got yesterday when they posted information of UI changes 1.19 will contain? They've put in a lot of the things the UI probably should have had on launch day, this is what is called 'improving', one of them was the ability to change font size, one of the first people to be notified of this was a player in the forums who had trouble with the current font size due to his eyesight, this was not just a good decision by S.E, this was a meritable move that shows they care for their players. A UI doesn't need depth, it's there to be utilised as a means to interact with elements of the game, not be an element of the game itself.

There.

Now you tell me why you play this game since you hate it so much.

Once I have read your response, I will from that point on no longer read any of your posts, and hope to Mab that S.E ban the account you are currently using, at least to give the forum a brief short moment of piece before you go spending more money buying another copy of the game you hate so much, (resultantly increasing it's overall revenue, sales figures and promoting more reason to develop and impliment the changes you don't like) so as to use the ID key it comes with to make another account which will also get banned.

When I read a press release from someone like Jake Song (founder of the original Lineage and director of ArcheAge), you can see his dedication to a specific design-philosophy. His view on MMORPGs is strong and well-defined. The benefit of this is that people who subscribe to the same principles then want to play his games. The same can be said for basically any director of any MMO coming out in the immediate future. I can't think of one game where I'm like "wtf is this game even trying to BE?".

Maybe it's Yoshi's inexperience, or maybe his naievity/idealism, but when I read any of his press releases (letters from the director), it just doesn't seem like the lights are on upstairs, if you know what I mean. When he first took over, he seemed like an improvement to Tanaka. But after so many months of wishy washy statements... you begin to wonder.

Is it so hard for a director of a game to say: "Here are our beliefs, this is how we intend to achieve them, these are our perceived problems with the MMO genre as a whole, and this is how we intend to tap into the market, this is our target audience."

SE's current strategy of appeasement will just result in a diluted experience for everyone. It already is. Trying to accommodate every complaint will mean a never ending process of revision, it's just going to be a perpetual battle of revising every game system; features that may not have needed fundamental revision to begin with (see battle system).

What I get from Yoshi's letters, and maybe I'm mistaken (who knows!), is that he's so fixated on this mentality of "players want everything to be changed from the ground up" when that may not necessarily be true. And anyway, being at the mercy of every player's whim is not the role of a director. A director needs a birds-eye-view of the game in order to create a cohesive game world. And many players lack that kind of scope. In this way, listening to players and bending to their will is hardly the best strategy.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

What I get from Yoshi's letters, and maybe I'm mistaken (who knows!), is that he's so fixated on this mentality of "players want everything to be changed from the ground up" when that may not necessarily be true. And anyway, being at the mercy of every player's whim is not the role of a director. A director needs a birds-eye-view of the game in order to create a cohesive game world. And many players lack that kind of scope. In this way, listening to players and bending to their will is hardly the best strategy.

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Well the majority of players did vote yes to radically changing the rules of Eorzea. Besides he has a vision, you just continue to ignore it. Read the quotes that Rhomagus posted.

Dear Square Enix,

Please allow players and forums users to utilise a 'mute' button in order to filter out certain players/forum posters that we do not wish to hear from/associate with. Though this would decrease minor parts of the social aspects of MMO's and forums, it would also cause forum threads to be more clean and direct in the direction they are going with original thread posters opening statement, and decrease the 'rage' and 'trolling' that none of the forum users wish to encounter. This way it would not even be necessary to ban people from the forums, and people could simply mute them, and the muted person could scream his posts to hell and back without ever getting a reply. This would cause this person to 1: leave the forums alone when he realised his narrow-minded view-point caused him to be a universal reason to have a mute button included and 2: possibly make him rethink about his attitude towards other people in video games and forums which may drive him to improve himself to be a more likable person, and therefore receive constructive criticism, opinions and input about what he is talking about, rather than being given the total ignorance he is giving other people with his irrelevant blatherings.

I hope a mute button, or some sort of system that could remedy the above problem, is being considered in a future forum/game update.

Thank you.

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Sonic, I've actually read those quotes but I still stand by my statements, I hate to say it.

P.S It would also be appreciated if community reps could post relevant information to point the thread 'troller' or 'rager' to where he is wrong in his ignorant view-point, much like Sonic_The_Hedgehog has in the post above me. This would perhaps may them pay more attention to what people are discussing, rather trying to argue about something they really do know nothing about.

Your happy miqo'te player,

Konachibi
xxxxx

Wow, this again?

Nah, I'm just gonna log in the game and have fun. See ya!

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Sonic, I've actually read those quotes but I still stand by my statements, I hate to say it.

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Then the problem isn't that he doesn't have a vision it's just that you don't like his vision. Oh incase you didn't know, his target is FF fans.

[Quote: Today, 12:13 PM
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Finally he informs me of something usefull, which results in me being able to in future ignore everything he says that is irelevant :D

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Then the problem isn't that he doesn't have a vision it's just that you don't like his vision. Oh incase you didn't know, his target is FF fans.

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Sonic, I've been poking this at him for 3 days. He also doesn't seem to like accepting that he's playing the wrong game for him.

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4Gamer: So basically, you don’t want to say “FFXIV = THIS!”. Instead, you change how you will respond based on how things are at that time.

Yoshida: That’s how it will be. That’s why, like I mentioned before, our big “policy” right now is just regaining the trust of our players and customers.

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That is the same as saying "I don't want to have a vision, rather I would just like to fix things and change things as time goes on to be flexible."

which is a completely rational and logical way of dealing with the situation....
except that every other MMO does have a vision and can say our game = this.

While personally I like the way he goes about things. That sadly is not what most people like.
Political parties are the perfect example of this. Do you see any centrist parties in the world that say "we don't know what we will do about this policy, we want to leave it open so it will be flexible"... no
Because if you do its political suicide
People want to know fairly direct answers as to a politicians direction and policy choices
just like People want to know direct answers about a games direction and game mechanic choices.

Pretending that people in general are ok with on-the-fence statements about anything is wishful thinking, because every outlet of society shows that people respond to direct answers and extremes rather than the "we can decide things based on the situation"

Put another way, humans are psychologically biased to prefer absolute statements (neuroscientific/psychological fact, social explanation for the human obsession with the afterlife [ex, egyptian 'book of the dead', heaven and hell in Christianity, plato's philosophy])
Yoshi P doesn't want to make absolute statements
so I'm asking for a compromise, a statement about how he would envision the perfect mmo without any commitment to doing any of it.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

That is the same as saying "I don't want to have a vision, rather I would just like to fix things and change things as time goes on to be flexible."

which is a completely rational and logical way of dealing with the situation....
except that every other MMO does have a vision and can say our game = this.

While personally I like the way he goes about things. That sadly is not what most people like.
Political parties are the perfect example of this. Do you see any centrist parties in the world that say "we don't know what we will do about this policy, we want to leave it open so it will be flexible"... no
Because if you do its political suicide
People want to know fairly direct answers as to a politicians direction and policy choices
just like People want to know direct answers about a games direction and game mechanic choices.

Pretending that people in general are ok with on-the-fence statements about anything is wishful thinking, because every outlet of society shows that people respond to direct answers and extremes rather than the "we can decide things based on the situation"

Put another way, humans are psychologically biased to prefer absolute statements (neuroscientific/psychological fact, social explanation for the human obsession with the afterlife [ex, egyptian 'book of the dead', heaven and hell in Christianity, plato's philosophy])
Yoshi P doesn't want to make absolute statements
so I'm asking for a compromise, a statement about how he would envision the perfect mmo without any commitment to doing any of it.

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It's nice to see a post on this with both proof of what has already been said and a reasonable request to go with it.

It would be nice if Yoshi replied to this.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

That is the same as saying "I don't want to have a vision, rather I would just like to fix things and change things as time goes on to be flexible."

which is a completely rational and logical way of dealing with the situation....
except that every other MMO does have a vision and can say our game = this.

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Wow, did he really say that?

It's good to be open to suggestions, but just responding to complaint after complaint is such a futile endeavour, for reasons I outlined before.

A developer needs a birds eye view. You can't just respond to complaints and then "organically" evolve into a good game for everyone. Reacting to complaints will only result in a game rife with inconsinstencies.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Wow, did he really say that?

It's good to be open to suggestions, but just responding to complaint after complaint is such a futile endeavour, for reasons I outlined before.

A developer needs a birds eye view. You can't just respond to complaints and then "organically" evolve into a good game for everyone. Reacting to complaints will only result in a game rife with inconsinstencies.

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Yes, you would know right, since you're some kind game developer/producer right?

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Yes, you would know right, since you're some kind game developer/producer right?

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This is why I'm loving these 'this post has been ignored' bits I keep seeing in the threads now.

It reminds me that I have improved my forum browsing experience by reducing the amount of '/troll' these forums possess by at least 40%

What's with everyone all at once, anyhow? Perhaps try to stay on topic instead of just insulting me. If you disagree, explain why, without trying to discredit me as an individual.

I only discredit Yoshi by explaining why his decisions and ideas will not work. You are welcome to do the same. But if all you can say is that I am not "qualified" to enter discussions or that I am a troll, then that is not adding much to the discussion. (When all is said and done)

See? I scroll to the bottom and I'm greeted by the pleasant "This person is in your ignore list"

Lodestone forums!
Now with 40% less /troll!
Try yours today!

*subject to terms and conditions

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

What's with everyone all at once, anyhow? Perhaps try to stay on topic instead of just insulting me. If you disagree, explain why, without trying to discredit me as an individual.

I only discredit Yoshi by explaining why his decisions and ideas will not work. You are welcome to do the same. But if all you can say is that I am not "qualified" to enter discussions or that I am a troll, then that is not adding much to the discussion. (When all is said and done)

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Well you have no proof of what your saying is correct other than pushing what unreleased games are doing, which can change from the final product. All you're saying is he should have a "bird's eye view", which doesn't mean anything. Also they haven't been listening to every complaint, if they have then we wouldn't be moving over to this new claiming system, you'll still have your NQ/+1,+2,+3 system and parts. So obviously they have their vision for the game. Adding what is reasonable from community is a plus. It shows that they're listening to the community and it makes the players feel like they have a part in making the game, but that doesn't mean the players will always have a say in the game.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Well you have no proof of what your saying is correct other than pushing what unreleased games are doing, which can change from the final product. All you're saying is he should have a "bird's eye view", which doesn't mean anything. Also they haven't been listening to every complaint, if they have then we wouldn't be moving over to this new claiming system, you'll still have your NQ/+1,+2,+3 system and parts. So obviously they have their vision for the game. Adding what is reasonable from community is a plus. It shows that they're listening to the community and it makes the players feel like they have a part in making the game, but that doesn't mean the players will always have a say in the game.

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So what's the vision? Is it pandering to complaints or is it not? Is it what he said in that quote from Azury or is it what you said?

That's all we want to know.

What formula does Yoshi use to decide which complaints to listen to?

This is what we want to know. This is all we are asking for.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Yes, you would know right, since you're some kind game developer/producer right?

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to be fair you can assume that since almost every game on the market has some kind of a vision behind it (even single player games) its somewhat of a necessity for success. I mean if you want to see a -really- good example of a game with a vision check out the vids for elder scrolls V skyrim. The main dev guy really explains what he wants people to feel when playing the game and how he wants his game world to be, as well as why they chose to do things a certain way.

Even the star wars TOR vids talk about their vision and what they expect out of the game.

And not mentioning your vision or what your updates intend to change, causes problems:

For example:

People thought the future of FFXIV was coblyn grinding for the longest time because no one bothered to say "we realize there is a problem and intend to fix it"

It took weeks for Yoshi-P to say that leve-linking + failing was not an intended way to SP, even though tons of people were arguing that it was SE's intention for it to be like that and saying "there is a tradeoff, if you fail leves you dont get rewards" as their justification for it being an intended part of the game.

A week after 1.18 was released i posted this thread:Asking how to Solo SP

and got responses like:

"Yoshi says that the way you leveled up before was too fast and should take months if you go solo."
"Next look and see what level your character is. Your goal is to aim for mobs around that level."
"I don't know if it's normal but with LNC @ rank 20 I can't solo mobs of rank 5 or higher above mine."
"Soloing is painfully slow right now."
"Soloing, I don't think you will be able to find the kind of exp you're looking for, but if I figure out anything I'll post it."
etc
basically a bunch of people saying solo'ing isn't really viable anymore and that Yoshi-P changed it so that people party....
So i played around, tryed a bunch of stuff, and came up with my solo guide which can often net you the same or near what a party can get in SP per hour.

point being, by not stating a vision or intentions, people completely ignored an entire aspect of the game for weeks.

And I really see that as a problem

I can see what you're getting at, playing on your own does seem kinda "eh" right now.

When I grind I tend to ask in linkshell for a party, multiple players makes it easier, and... kinda fulfills the purpose of playing a multiplayer game.

I'm not saying that to knock you though, that solo guide is amazingly informative and I'm defenitely going to use it, at least for knowing what enemies I can kill and therefore, what materials I can gather with my highest battle class.

One thing that kinda confuses me though and tips me to one side is that the instruction book gives you no tips on where to go or what to do when you start the game, it just sort of puts you there and you work it out yourself. The crafting also doesn't have a trainer that gives recipes, leves give recipes but many of them you work out by yourself.
And one of the first things I read in the Lodestone forums when I joined FFXIV was "Nothing here tells you what to do, do what you want to do with this, that's the beauty of it."

This kind of lead me to believe, and I still believe, that most of the aspects to this game are found through discovery, not by having it shown to you or handed to you on a silver platter with in-depth instructions on what to do next.

That being said, those responses you posted read to me as "We don't know and we can't be bothered to find out." apart from this one: "Soloing, I don't think you will be able to find the kind of exp you're looking for, but if I figure out anything I'll post it."

You yourself went to find out and discovered methods of solo levelling on your own, S.E didn't tell you how to do it. That makes your solo guide commendable.

That's just how I kinda feel about this game though, it's nice not to be lead around on it like a dog on a leash like most other mmo's do, I go where I want when I want and do what I want.

And I believe that was one of the original aims for the game and the purpose for the armory system wasn't it, to allow that extra level of freedom?

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

So what's the vision? Is it pandering to complaints or is it not? Is it what he said in that quote from Azury or is it what you said?

That's all we want to know.

What formula does Yoshi use to decide which complaints to listen to?

This is what we want to know. This is all we are asking for.

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His vision isn't tied to fixing everyone's complaints, that's what they're doing now to bring the game up to par.

His vision is no matter your playing style (or how much time you have to play) you'll have something to do in Eorzea. That can mean having more leves, instances, open world NMs, and quests. When you log in you should have something to do, also the content you tackle should be challenging and take skill. If that's not the vision you want, then TERA is already out in Japan, so get to playing it.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

to be fair you can assume that since almost every game on the market has some kind of a vision behind it (even single player games) its somewhat of a necessity for success. I mean if you want to see a -really- good example of a game with a vision check out the vids for elder scrolls V skyrim. The main dev guy really explains what he wants people to feel when playing the game and how he wants his game world to be, as well as why they chose to do things a certain way.

Even the star wars TOR vids talk about their vision and what they expect out of the game.

And not mentioning your vision or what your updates intend to change, causes problems:

For example:

People thought the future of FFXIV was coblyn grinding for the longest time because no one bothered to say "we realize there is a problem and intend to fix it"

It took weeks for Yoshi-P to say that leve-linking + failing was not an intended way to SP, even though tons of people were arguing that it was SE's intention for it to be like that and saying "there is a tradeoff, if you fail leves you dont get rewards" as their justification for it being an intended part of the game.

A week after 1.18 was released i posted this thread:Asking how to Solo SP

and got responses like:

"Yoshi says that the way you leveled up before was too fast and should take months if you go solo."
"Next look and see what level your character is. Your goal is to aim for mobs around that level."
"I don't know if it's normal but with LNC @ rank 20 I can't solo mobs of rank 5 or higher above mine."
"Soloing is painfully slow right now."
"Soloing, I don't think you will be able to find the kind of exp you're looking for, but if I figure out anything I'll post it."
etc
basically a bunch of people saying solo'ing isn't really viable anymore and that Yoshi-P changed it so that people party....
So i played around, tryed a bunch of stuff, and came up with my solo guide which can often net you the same or near what a party can get in SP per hour.

point being, by not stating a vision or intentions, people completely ignored an entire aspect of the game for weeks.

And I really see that as a problem

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Those problems seem like a lack of communication, than a lack of vision. Also if they came out and said "hey coblyn grinding is wrong!" then everyone would know that they are gonna nerf it, thus leading to people hurrying out trying to grind as much as possible before they changed it.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

His vision isn't tied to fixing everyone's complaints, that's what they're doing now to bring the game up to par.

His vision is no matter your playing style (or how much time you have to play) you'll have something to do in Eorzea. That can mean having more leves, instances, open world NMs, and quests. When you log in you should have something to do, also the content you tackle should be challenging and take skill. If that's not the vision you want, then TERA is already out in Japan, so get to playing it.

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Will FFXIV allow me to increase my breast size by x10 and make them bounce like jelly like in Tera? No? Aww :(

*fetches pen and paper*

Dear Yoshi...

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

His vision isn't tied to fixing everyone's complaints, that's what they're doing now to bring the game up to par.

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But what formula does he use to decide what needs "fixing"? Sometimes his fixes look like breakages to me! So HOW is he "bringing the game up to par"? There is no scientific answer. To answer that question is subject, and thus to answer it, Yoshi needs to have a vision.

So filtering complaints requires a vision, otherwise how do you know which complaint to listen to?

Quote:

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His vision is no matter your playing style (or how much time you have to play) you'll have something to do in Eorzea. That can mean having more leves, instances, open world NMs, and quests. When you log in you should have something to do, also the content you tackle should be challenging and take skill. If that's not the vision you want, then TERA is already out in Japan, so get to playing it.

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If his vision is simply "moar content" then one also needs to know why he chooses one form of content over another. Every game wants infinite content, but they have to prioritise. That's why some games dedicate themselves to community-based stuff, or PvP, or PvE, and different types of each.

Yoshi basically slapped some instances together because "other games do it". So is that his vision? Imitation?

Wanting a game for everyone can result in a game for no-one. How does he expect to overcome that pretty glaring problem?

And don't you think there's a big problem if you have to paraphrase and put words in his mouth just to get his so-called vision across?

No matter how many times you regurgitate stuff Yoshi has said, you're just not answering my questions, sorry. And that's because Yoshi never answered these questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

But what formula does he use to decide what needs "fixing"? Sometimes his fixes look like breakages to me! So HOW is he "bringing the game up to par"? There is no scientific answer. To answer that question is subject, and thus to answer it, Yoshi needs to have a vision.

They want to bring up what currently released MMOs have, the "current MMO standard". They have said this.

So filtering complaints requires a vision, otherwise how do you know which complaint to listen to?

The ones that fit in with his vision.


If his vision is simply "moar content" then one also needs to know why he chooses one form of content over another. Every game wants infinite content, but they have to prioritise. That's why some games dedicate themselves to community-based stuff, or PvP, or PvE, and different types of each.

Yoshi basically slapped some instances together because "other games do it". So is that his vision? Imitation?

Wanting a game for everyone can result in a game for no-one. How does he expect to overcome that pretty glaring problem?

And don't you think there's a big problem if you have to paraphrase and put words in his mouth just to get his so-called vision across?

I didn't put words into his mouth, read his interviews, it's there.

No matter how many times you regurgitate stuff Yoshi has said, you're just not answering my questions, sorry. And that's because Yoshi never answered these questions.

I tried looking up this Jake guy's press release and couldn't find it, but I found a video of him just talking about the technology they put in the game, which isn't a vision.

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9823749hw0ehf9owiejfijwe0fioo0iew

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

9823749hw0ehf9owiejfijwe0fioo0iew

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http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/07/ch...ew-on-mmo.html
http://www.betacake.net/2011/08/arch...-songs_03.html

He actually gives a "big picture" for what the MMO should be like. Rather than just saying "we might add this thing here" and "cut this feature here" "just because".

GW2 devs are the same. If you just go to their main site, they release huge articles about their features and why they decide to implement features in that specific way and how it will make their game a success.

Yoshi's just like "yeah let's just implement this because someone complained". There's just no big picture. sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

9823749hw0ehf9owiejfijwe0fioo0iew

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Gah don't quote his ridiculously unscrupulous posts! Now I can see again the mindless kerfuffle that comes blasting out of his already warped and incomprehensible mind!

I'm In Despair!

... always wanted to find a good place to use that clip...