Please do not make group quest open world areas.

What is everyone freaking out about? The mobs will still be east to run away from, Yoshi even said so. He said something like "if you get two mobs attacking you you might have to run away if you want to survive".

I like this change very much.

I like the sound of this.

I look forward to the open world danger. This games like playing with a bunch of NPCs, we need some situations that encourage community interaction.

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Originally Posted by Enthy

I look forward to the open world danger. This games like playing with a bunch of NPCs, we need some situations that encourage community interaction.

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Aren't those called raids?

I've seen this "elite mobs areas for parties" in a lot of MMORPG, I've seen both MSQ and sidequest tied to them.
There's usually no problem at launch or during the first months of the content, since well of course, that content is new...

The problem starts when time passes and content becomes obsolete, either because you only need to run it once (MSQ, once & only sidequest rewards, etc) or the rewards become outdated. What happens to the late comer then? they get stuck waiting for other late comer, or someone who wants to help them run content which won't reward them.

Few things suck more than getting stuck in a MSQ because you have to "get to X item and activate it" in an area packed with elite mobs with no way to avoid aggro in it, and no one helping because it's a dead zone/content.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

Aren't those called raids?

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Raids like World of Darkness or Crystal Tower are full of people from different servers who I will probably never see again. Which feels like playing with a bunch of NPCs at best (I say at best because there are people that feel they don't need to be courteous because "who cares? I'll never see them again") With out a quick efficient way to identify people who are on the same server as you (like maybe an icon over players on your same server) Duty Finder Raids do not strengthen inter server communities.

Playing with random people from different servers does not encourage social interaction. Even more so it is discouraged when you put a time limit on the encounter.

I'm not saying that there is 0 inter server community interaction/development, but the game sure could use more situations that encourage or even require the players to reach out and collaborate with each other. I think Open World activities that are difficult to solo or can not be solo'd will help with that.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

I've seen this "elite mobs areas for parties" in a lot of MMORPG, I've seen both MSQ and sidequest tied to them.
There's usually no problem at launch or during the first months of the content, since well of course, that content is new...

The problem starts when time passes and content becomes obsolete, either because you only need to run it once (MSQ, once & only sidequest rewards, etc) or the rewards become outdated. What happens to the late comer then? they get stuck waiting for other late comer, or someone who wants to help them run content which won't reward them.

Few things suck more than getting stuck in a MSQ because you have to "get to X item and activate it" in an area packed with elite mobs with no way to avoid aggro in it, and no one helping because it's a dead zone/content.

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The thing is, the way these areas are being described is that they will present a challenge to a solo player. Not that they will be impossible, or even very difficult. It was suggested that you "may" want to reach out for help with these areas, but in no way was it stated that a party would be required.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

pokes fun at someone being afraid of competition, wants locked encounters so he doesnt have to compete with another group for damage.

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Actually you are wrong. It means the group before has to take a risk of pulling it first and could wipe because they either didn't have enough people to do it or didn't plan it. Then since they attacked it we can plan and watch the fun.

Locked Encounters are a good design to stop "Zerging". So you can't play it like Guild Wars 2 and roll through the zone in big raids killing everything.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Straight from Live Letter:

"We have seen many comments where players felt the A Realm Reborn areas were too peaceful as the monster placement in the areas were a bit too easy; however, the monsters in Heavensward are very strong. If you encounter two or more monsters at same time, you’ll either need to fight doing your best, or be prepared to run.

If you plan on stepping in areas such as the beastmen camps, and other dangerous areas, you’ll probably want to talk with nearby players to get through them."

I'm with OP, I foresee problems here with forced grouping just to get from one place to another. Can you imagine something like atma's for the next grind, or gathering for that matter? I really dislike when traveling from A to B becomes a hassle personally. I avoid the Sylphlands as much as I can due to their heavy spam in this region alone.

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See, I STRONGLY disagree with the both of you, however I do understand where you're coming from and what you're saying. I do agree that when the currently hyped content becomes like ARR's content before it, outdated and undesired, there should be measures taken to prevent people from being gated behind barriers because no one does it anymore.

I'll be the first to say though that anything requiring a party in the open world isn't going to mentally or physically kill you in real life, and I probably won't be the last. If anything, it creates a more dangerous, believable world, with risks and reward, and memorable experiences because each unique monster has their own ticks and personalities in the world, rather than some theme park monster that chases you for a bit on the side of the road.

Maybe I'm biased, because I'm a former 1.0 player that adored the world back then, with the exception of the zone design of the Black Shroud, but even there the monsters had such charm and uniqueness. Anyone that remembers 1.0 treants knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Also, to boot, I'm one of the most anti-social human beings you can possibly imagine, and even I'm thrilled about this evolution for the game, even though it technically has been done before in its lifespan.

Also, for the record, this is NOTHING like the Sylphlands. Sylphlands aren't dangerous at level 50, they're just INCREDIBLY annoying. There's a difference between avoiding something because it's dangerous and when something's annoying. Being under-leveled doesn't count because you could do that to yourself anywhere, defeating the purpose and point of it all.

I suspect it'll likely be similar to the camps that guard the Relic Weapon requirements. I personally found those areas pretty fun, but the moment you draw one too many you're basically screwed and are almost forced to run, which just aggros more.

Sadly, it isn't really made too much easier with multiple people, because they aren't really hard in the first place. They just have alot of HP and hit hard. The moment you're able to outlast them is the moment they're easy. Now, if mobs throw off ridiculous AOEs that need to be dodged, come grouped with healers and/or buffers, and require more than solo tank-n-spank, then i'm 100,000% for that. That's fun.

Thats my biggest gripe with the S-rank marks. They don't really have any mechanics, they just require enough people to outlast them.

I remember days when mobs would literally "charm" you and make them your pet in the open world for hours upon hours. Zones in these games are a complete joke and just a waste of time. I don't understand how people can call it a Final Fantasy game when the open world mobs in the older games were actually quite challenging. In this game the mobs level of difficulty is right outside the gates, you know the ones i'm talking about where one sword attack can kill one.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I remember days when mobs would literally "charm" you and make them your pet in the open world for hours upon hours. Zones in these games are a complete joke and just a waste of time. I don't understand how people can call it a Final Fantasy game when the open world mobs in the older games were actually quite challenging. In this game the mobs level of difficulty is right outside the gates, you know the ones i'm talking about where one sword attack can kill one.

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What are you talking about? "charmed for hours upon hours?" And unless you are fighting level 20 mobs at level 50, you won't be one shot killing anything. And while some final fantasy enemies were pretty tough, mostly those in the final few dungeons, the vast majority of final fantasy enemies are basic attack fodder. If you want a real Final Fantasy experience, MP wouldn't regen automatically and casters would have to sleep at inns or use rare ethers to be effective.

The type of logic in this thread is exactly the same thing that was being shouted in WoW before flying was removed. People cite a dangerous world as helping you make friends and have a meaningful experience. You REALLY need the game difficulty to crank up to make friends? You can't find meaning in a game unless you get slaughtered by mudcrabs? I keep thinking of all of the barren group quest zones in other games I've played, and I don't want to see that repeated here. Tediously strong trash enemies + Flying mounts = people avoiding enemies even more than they already do. That's it. Stop daydreaming about epic meaningful adventures of friendship and magic.

In reality, we're probably going to see a few new powerful enemy types and beast tribe areas that are a bit more dangerous than before because we don't HAVE to run through it a million times a day. The developers would have to be crazy to drastically change the core world content that players would experience after investing hundreds of hours with their characters.

See there you people go, wanting SE go much further with this and making the game frustrating for yourselves. When they do all of that, you then start complaining some more and want them to do this and do that. Make up your minds.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

See there you people go, wanting SE go much further with this and making the game frustrating for yourselves. When they do all of that, you then start complaining some more and want them to do this and do that. Make up your minds.

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You do realize that a gaming community has more than one person, right?

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Originally Posted by Twilite

See there you people go, wanting SE go much further with this and making the game frustrating for yourselves. When they do all of that, you then start complaining some more and want them to do this and do that. Make up your minds.

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No one here has asked, "SE, please make open world content raid level difficulty where I am required to wipe over and over again to make it to the next aetheryte, then wipe more in an attempt to make it to the hut where the mender is to repair my gear." Instead, many players are pleased that the wolves have teeth, instead of trying to gum you to death. Many posts in this thread are in accordance with this change of open world, and many of the dissenters seem to be misinterpreting the level of difficulty that is going to be presented.

I'm actually quite content with this idea of harder monsters. I think it's also been stated somewhere that ilvl 130 should carry you to level to level 55. So all the people that have been raiding and grinding and slogging away for equips should have a heads up on others anyways.

Besides, now I should have an easier time getting my 'Raise people outside my party' Achievement.

Let the bodies hit the floor, for I have a wand and a book.

There's nothing wrong with open world areas being dangerous, that's the takeaway from the comments being mind. That it's possible that in 3.0 even at 60 open world areas will be dangerous for those at 60. So if grouping up is needed for a task, but more social if both players are seeking the same objective it's no different than teaming up during relic when players needed to kill the game mob or do the same fate.

Don't see anything wrong with killing monsters being a bit difficult. It's a good change.

No idea why people are crying, casuals I guess.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

Many posts in this thread are in accordance with this change of open world, and many of the dissenters seem to be misinterpreting the level of difficulty that is going to be presented.

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Yeah, I agree we're misinterpreting the level of difficulty. I think SE knows what they are doing, and it will be fine. But there is definitely a vibe in this thread that "punishing is better", and I've seen too much of that in other games. Games where, after 200 hours of solo playtime, the questing zones suddenly become impossible to solo and I'm forced to look for friends to help. Except, since the game doesn't create a need for group play earlier (Secret World) or has mechanics that make group play almost impossible (Elder Scrolls Online) you can't find anyone to assist you with the final few zones of the game. People either don't play that far, or the content is no longer relevant and the zones are pretty much empty.

I've still never finished the last zone of Secret World, because "you have to fight one enemy at a time, and if you pull a second one by mistake you will be in trouble". After giving up on that game because I couldn't find anyone to assist me, those aren't words that I'm delighted to hear.

However, I'll restate, I think it will be fine in FFXIV. I can't imagine devs are talking about allowing some kind of solo dungeon while simultaneously forcing parties on quest zones. Maybe there will be hard world content, but then they will deliver on the npc accompaniment they've been mentioning. Or maybe my chocobo will finally become a man and start fighting like the hero I know he is. Yoshi-p won't let FFXIV become a wasteland of tough mobs and no players like other mmos have done.

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Originally Posted by Cherry_Phox

Let the bodies hit the floor, for I have a wand and a book.

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We're on a floating continent, fighting an army of dragons, I've got a bow and arrow, none of this makes sense.

I am super excited at the concept of harder mobs, at least in the way they were framed in the live letter. Will they be a hassle to deal with and cause some frustration? Absolutely. Does this mean they're going to require a party to take down a couple of water sprites? lol, no. The way I see it is that your first time stepping into an Ishgard zone is that you'll be absolutely dwarfed by the environment, given their size compared to 2.x zones. You'll be tiny and feel vulnerable, and will die if you don't pick your fights carefully.

But the rewards for exploring will be even greater. Can you imagine how you'll feel when you completely map out a zone on foot, get your bearings and take to the skies as your reward? Unlike 2.x, you'll feel like you've actually MASTERED an overworld zone, and that exact moment is what I'm anticipating more than most other things in the expansion.

This forum never ceases to amaze me...

Yoshi! We want more fights with actual mechanics! Enough of this Tank and Spank!
*Steps of Faith*
Yoshi! People can't learn mechanics! Please nerf, we want tank and spank!

Yoshi! the open world is so boring! Give us a reason to actually explore with our friends, give us a sense of danger!
"You may need to tread carefully... You may need to group up and actually talk to people..."
Yoshi! I play games to relax and only have ten minutes to play, ain't nobody got time for grouping up in an MMO! Please nerf before it's even out, and before we even know how challenging the mobs will be! Nerf the everything!

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, no matter what they do with the games at this point, people will always complain.

This is about the biggest threat walking around Eorzea at the moment...dem toads...

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

We're on a floating continent, fighting an army of dragons, I've got a bow and arrow, none of this makes sense.

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There are bears in Dravania. And wild Chocobos, very dangerous. They can run faster to you than you can shoot to them ^^

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Originally Posted by NovaWulfe

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase...

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Whoa whoa whoa... watch where you are pointing those accusations. I just checked google, and there are no "Thancred the Hedgehog" drawings yet. So I say we are at least a few steps above THAT crowd. :p

On the other hand, "Lilith the Hedgehog" seems quite popular. Hmm...

What yeah sayers expect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwT4Wicuy58 (the fight with the Dodos, because Yoshida said the difficulty start with 2-3 enemies at once)
What nay sayers expect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyoMaeV9hG4 (the enemy at the end, because they seem to fear that they need a party just for killing anything)

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Originally Posted by NovaWulfe

This forum never ceases to amaze me...

Yoshi! We want more fights with actual mechanics! Enough of this Tank and Spank!
*Steps of Faith*
Yoshi! People can't learn mechanics! Please nerf, we want tank and spank!

Yoshi! the open world is so boring! Give us a reason to actually explore with our friends, give us a sense of danger!
"You may need to tread carefully... You may need to group up and actually talk to people..."
Yoshi! I play games to relax and only have ten minutes to play, ain't nobody got time for grouping up in an MMO! Please nerf before it's even out, and before we even know how challenging the mobs will be! Nerf the everything!

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, no matter what they do with the games at this point, people will always complain.

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It's almost like there's hundreds of thousands of people, all with differing opinions, choosing not to voice them on this forum until they're unhappy with something. Come, let us be boggled by this ludicrous possibility together.

I'm... sort of in-between atm. I don't mind mobs being tougher than they have been so far. It's true that getting into the beastmen strongholds to do various things (maps, hunt mobs, beast tribe quests, etc) is more of an annoyance than a danger -- even back when I wasn't wearing gear more than twice their level.

But I don't want it to go too far either, so it really becomes a must to party up to get through because mobs are both tough AND closely interspaced, so when you run you get seen by more mobs, and by the time you've lost aggro on all mobs you're back where you started.

The fact that a well-geared level 60 BLM (Yoshida's lalafell -- its hp/mp kinda says 'well-geared' to me) was saying that two level 53 chocobos were too tough to aggro makes me a little worried, but I'm hoping he was just exaggerating to avoid entering combat mode and revealing too much about the new spells. Sure, he could have picked higher-levelled mobs, but then he wouldn't have gotten to show off the enemy chocobos at the same time. Two birds (if you'll pardon the pun) with one stone.

So for now, I'm staying neutral and make up my mind on it once we get to those zones ^^

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Whoa whoa whoa... watch where you are pointing those accusations. I just checked google, and there are no "Thancred the Hedgehog" drawings yet. So I say we are at least a few steps above THAT crowd. :p

On the other hand, "Lilith the Hedgehog" seems quite popular. Hmm...

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Ugh, thanks for letting me know that's a thing. Here I was letting my childhood die in peace, and now you make me look up images of bad fanart... Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

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Originally Posted by Felis

There are bears in Dravania. And wild Chocobos, very dangerous. They can run faster to you than you can shoot to them ^^

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If I remember right the mobs were lower 50's. Should only be any manner of problem for the first few levels at best. Not like people may not be able to level up elsewhere to avoid much of the complications they may pose. Sure, depending on how and where level cap is unlocked you may have to find your way around them or otherwise manage to defeat them in the short term....but eventually they WILL become more manageable simply through the process of leveling up.

Nothing new...everyone can run into that delimma now. The difficulty of all existing content is relative to your current level. Level 45 job quest may be a real challenge at your gear level when you unlock it but may be a cakewalk if you ding 46 and slap on a few better pieces. The same will apply at level 55, 60, 65, etc. until they stop raising the caps and introducing content appropriate to that new cap.

This won't be the only time they raise the caps BTW...beginning to wonder if that has dawned on some of these naysayers. Just like how you can run around in your PJ's for most of FFXI now, you may find the same thing here one day.

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Originally Posted by NovaWulfe

This forum never ceases to amaze me...

Yoshi! We want more fights with actual mechanics! Enough of this Tank and Spank!
*Steps of Faith*
Yoshi! People can't learn mechanics! Please nerf, we want tank and spank!

Yoshi! the open world is so boring! Give us a reason to actually explore with our friends, give us a sense of danger!
"You may need to tread carefully... You may need to group up and actually talk to people..."
Yoshi! I play games to relax and only have ten minutes to play, ain't nobody got time for grouping up in an MMO! Please nerf before it's even out, and before we even know how challenging the mobs will be! Nerf the everything!

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, no matter what they do with the games at this point, people will always complain.

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Another person who hasn't figured out that the community consists of more than one person.

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Originally Posted by NovaWulfe

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, no matter what they do with the games at this point, people will always complain.

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Well, you see, FFXIV 1.0 was ass, and Square Enix got the picture the first time people trashed their game. They then went into the mountains and returned with ARR, the saviour of their stocks and renewer of faith. The typical crybabies still moan, but this game has been nothing but complete success for fans, reviewers and newcomers alike.

...People have been trashing Sonic the Hedgehog for like a decade, and no matter how many times they get slayed by reviewers, they refuse to make a Sonic game that isn't trash.

I get where you were going, but comparing any franchise to Sonic the Hedgehog at this point is like comparing it to a landfill.

I'm glad they're making the open world more dangerous. I guess they feel they can get away with it now because you have flying mounts that can't be attacked in the air.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

The fact that a well-geared level 60 BLM (Yoshida's lalafell -- its hp/mp kinda says 'well-geared' to me) was saying that two level 53 chocobos were too tough to aggro makes me a little worried, but I'm hoping he was just exaggerating to avoid entering combat mode and revealing too much about the new spells

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Also consider that there will be tons of people playing in the first few weeks, so enemies might be beefier to accommodate dozens of people swarming them. As for chocobos, maybe they have crazy powerful attacks because you aren't supposed to kill them, like when an angry chocobo casts chocobuckle in FFvII or when cuccos get angry in Legend of Zelda.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Well, you see, FFXIV 1.0 was ass, and Square Enix got the picture the first time people trashed their game. They then went into the mountains and returned with ARR, the saviour of their stocks and renewer of faith. The typical crybabies still moan, but this game has been nothing but complete success for fans, reviewers and newcomers alike.

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Yes, but we only complained about enemies 10-30 levels over the level cap, not about the enemies 1-5 levels over the level cap. People who did leves at lv 47 already choosed a leve difficulty that gave them enemies around lv 52 for the good exp.
In ARR i was shocked that the only lv 50 enemies in the open world are water spirits in only 1 place, while in the strongholds the highest enemy level is only 49.
Then you want to level up your Chocobo with a lv 50 job and you wish that there are at least some lv 53 enemies somewhere to give your chocobo good exp (this was before the weekly challenge log).

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I remember days when mobs would literally "charm" you and make them your pet in the open world for hours upon hours. Zones in these games are a complete joke and just a waste of time. I don't understand how people can call it a Final Fantasy game when the open world mobs in the older games were actually quite challenging. In this game the mobs level of difficulty is right outside the gates, you know the ones i'm talking about where one sword attack can kill one.

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When has this ever really been a thing? Honestly, older FF games were no different then they are now -- by the time i'm done with the story portion of an area, i'm steamrolling everything i encounter. Seriously, people complained about FFXII but it was one of the few Final Fantasy games where running into the wrong area just got you roflstomped, and the only one thus far to eliminate the drivel of passing through lower areas and wasting time with trash that can't even damage you anymore.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Yes, but we only complained about enemies 10-30 levels over the level cap, not about the enemies 1-5 levels over the level cap.
In ARR i was shocked that the only lv 50 enemies in the open world are water spirits in only 1 place, while in the strongholds the highest enemy level is only 49.

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I'm also no fan of how there are no enemies above Lv50 in ARR. The stronghold enemies are lv49 but clearly like level 55, they are way stronger than any other open-world mob you will encounter. Enemies in dungeons clearly range from lv 51-100 based on Ilv requirements, primals and coil bosses obviously much higher, but the game just displays 50. It's probably just a redundancy thing.


The thing is, I don't really know what having super strong enemies open world will accomplish.

Yeah, they'll be harder to kill...but why? They wont have any important loot on them, otherwise they'd just be farmed to death and back.

They can't have any important currency on them, marks already do and commonly get zerged to death before some can even make it to their location.


I can see people asking for better LEVES to take down with friends, since being encounter locked allows SE to make them far more difficult and offer much better rewards. But open world enemies? Feels outdated to me.

In fact, i'm disappointed nobody has been asking for SE to utilize that content to give us more to do. Maybe offer 20 allowences to start a super-difficult levequest with 4-8 of your friends, that offer gear/materia/tomes. But nooooo, we keep crying for silly glorified trash mobs

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Originally Posted by Gyson

It's almost like there's hundreds of thousands of people, all with differing opinions, choosing not to voice them on this forum until they're unhappy with something. Come, let us be boggled by this ludicrous possibility together.

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As if it means anything, I was the one who liked this post. I fully understand this, but since everybody on the internet has the right to complain about everything, then this is me exercising my right to complain about their complaining. I fully understand that you can never please anyone, but the seemingly constant negativity is why I usually stay away from forums *see post count*, it just gets to you after a while.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Well, you see, FFXIV 1.0 was ass, and Square Enix got the picture the first time people trashed their game. They then went into the mountains and returned with ARR, the saviour of their stocks and renewer of faith. The typical crybabies still moan, but this game has been nothing but complete success for fans, reviewers and newcomers alike.

...People have been trashing Sonic the Hedgehog for like a decade, and no matter how many times they get slayed by reviewers, they refuse to make a Sonic game that isn't trash.

I get where you were going, but comparing any franchise to Sonic the Hedgehog at this point is like comparing it to a landfill.

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The point I was trying to make is that the sonic fanbase cannot decide on what makes a sonic game good. Is it just going really fast? They started making the "boost" games, like colors which lacked the awful Werehog nonsense, and people still complained. Sure, most new sonic games are trash, but what I was getting at is that the community sends mixed messages on what they want improved. Probably not the best comparison, but whatever.

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Originally Posted by NovaWulfe

This forum never ceases to amaze me...

Yoshi! We want more fights with actual mechanics! Enough of this Tank and Spank!
*Steps of Faith*
Yoshi! People can't learn mechanics! Please nerf, we want tank and spank!

Yoshi! the open world is so boring! Give us a reason to actually explore with our friends, give us a sense of danger!
"You may need to tread carefully... You may need to group up and actually talk to people..."
Yoshi! I play games to relax and only have ten minutes to play, ain't nobody got time for grouping up in an MMO! Please nerf before it's even out, and before we even know how challenging the mobs will be! Nerf the everything!

It's just like the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase, no matter what they do with the games at this point, people will always complain.

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Because it's not all the same people. Some of us don't like changes proposed by other groups and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Also consider that there will be tons of people playing in the first few weeks, so enemies might be beefier to accommodate dozens of people swarming them. As for chocobos, maybe they have crazy powerful attacks because you aren't supposed to kill them, like when an angry chocobo casts chocobuckle in FFvII or when cuccos get angry in Legend of Zelda.

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That may be true, but then the problem arises: What happens once most people move past that zone because they outlevel it? That's what the OP was worried about, that people coming too late for the release party (e.g. people starting from scratch a couple of patches from now) will face an area empty but for the monsters beefed up to withstand the initial zergfest.

Edit: Regarding the "chocobos may be extra tough because you shouldn't kill them"... Shouldn't they in that case have had the green "spiky" symbols, like with the Scarred Antelopes in South Shroud? AFAIK, that means "this mob, while not aggro, is tougher than most mobs of this area/level -- attack at your own risk".

Like I said, I'm neither OMGYAY nor WTFNOOO, but I'm mildly concerned that it might go too far.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

When has this ever really been a thing?

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The only thing I can think of is the raid boss birds in Plane of Fire from Everquest. They often would charm the high level that comes to help people out. The charmed high level proceeds to steamroll all the lowbies.

So there r dreadnaughts in open world that can rotoswipe ppl? Cool cool like it
Haha lol but then mobs would be
Too difficult for other purposes lol
Spirit bond parties assemble!