New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Nephera

I don't think its so disruptive now but i kind of wonder if they also intend for the completion of 2.0 AND 3.0 story for when we have 4.0 classes or 5.0 etc etc.

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I doubt it, because I bet we go to another continent and have a completely new cast in 4.0 series, so the story will be separate.

err i will not be that sure, they have already say that the expansion follow one theme... if my memory is exact the next theme is sea.

Honestly, the story is kind of what sets this game apart from the rest. Not that the story is necessarily anything over the top special, but because they integrate it into the game so well by using it for unlocks. It ties you to the world rather than the usual disconnect, where yeah you're running around this fantasy world but for the most part have only faint inclination of whats actually going on. It also allows them to include your character into the story rather than just watching it unfold from a distance. It also gives you a sense of purpose. But ultimately I think it's a good thing that the new classes are locked away behind the gate. Part of the fun in FFXI was tracking down what you needed to do to unlock a new job that wasn't included in the initial ones. I wish this game had more of that to be honest, because i think it helped set those jobs in FFXI apart from others as being a special thing and you felt accomplished when you finally did unlock it.

"The storyline is essential for setting up 3.0, of course brand new players should be required to go through it. It's really quick if you skip all the story, what are you complaining about?"

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Requiring a month and a half of work for new players to get to actual relevant content or to get to play the only class they may care about doesn't strike you as bad design AT ALL?

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You have to be level 20 and clear Ifrit story to ride a chocobo.
You have to be level 30 and have the appropriate secondary class to unlock any job.
You have to complete 2.55 story to enter 3.0 content.

It's called progression.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

No other MMO has ever locked a new class behind anything. Once you bought the expansion you could go right away. Only exception being classes that didn't start at level 1, but even then that didn't require you getting to level cap, just whatever level they started at.

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World of Warcraft, when Death Knight was released, you must play through a different character to level 55. Then you get to start a new character as Death Knight at level 55. At that time the level cap was level 80, and the player had to level the Death Knight through level 55-70 content that was release in a previous expansion.

FF14, when the new jobs are released, you must play through the same character to level 30 and you get to unlock the new jobs. Then you get to play that new job on the same character. At this time, the level cap would be 60.

None of the new jobs start at level 1.

Heavensward new jobs fit your description of that every other MMO. You also don't have to get to level cap to play the new jobs. What are you complaining about?

Just and idea for those of you who are crying cause evil devs gated the content and are forcing newbies to play through the main scenario before getting access to the 3 new jobs. What little we heared from about the new jobs sounds kinda complex. For example, the machinist uses ammo, attachments, charged abilities and turrets. Meanwhile the astrologian draws cards that operate kinda like mundras, with the addes bonus of being random. Also the effect of their abilities change completely when they switch stances. Would you really trust one of these jobs to some n00b fresh out of the starting zones? Of course not. I wouldn't. As someone with a ninja main it pains me to say it but most ninjas are terrible as well. One of them did dzemael darkhold without using a single mundra. Gating them behind Vishap ensures that all machinists have at least basic common sense.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Time needed would be less an issue if the reliability of getting groups for duty wasnt as poor as it is right now. Its still quite doable, but it takes more time; and people can be put off from completeing the MSQ.

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Easy solution: make the new jobs start with level 17 and include the old dungeons into the job quests. This way the people who did the MSQ and level up the new jobs help those players who didn''t finish the MSQ.

I don't get why this is an issue. For one this only affects brand new players starting at heavensward. Anyone playing now has more then enough time and forwarning to complete story that this issue is irrelevant to any current player. Besides any new person should play through 2.0 anyway since it teaches you the game. 2.1 through 2.55 might be a drag if they don't tack on exp to the quests but its hardly a huge time sunk from that point.

I for one am against this, You shouldnt have to level one job to 50 just to get the job you actually want to play. The devs need to fix this crap, if its true. /beginrant This whole job system is just terrible, we have classes that have no freaking purpose except to make you level a class you dont want to play to 15 to unlock your job, we have to level classes to over 30 in some cases just to get one skill for the job you actually want to play. And now new players are going to have to play the game for around 2 months to unlock 3 of the jobs. This is absolutely way more complicated than it needs to be. /endrant

Imagine new players want to start playing with Heavensward and they can't do anything until they finish all the long quest line from 2.0 to 2.55.

ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Imagine new players want to start playing with Heavensward and they can't do anything until they finish all the long quest line from 2.0 to 2.55.

ridiculous.

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I agree, FFXIV:HW is a new game, the story continues but the game is new.

Logically SE wants to attract players to buy the game. The New 3 Jobs are the basic starters for the new game.

I think they'll have a starter Lv.25 to 30, but they won't have any access to FFXIV:ARR map nor content.

As I see a new adventure -from scratch- starting in Ishgard is very logical compared with the conclusion of main sscenario of 2.55.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

You have to be level 20 and clear Ifrit story to ride a chocobo.
You have to be level 30 and have the appropriate secondary class to unlock any job.
You have to complete 2.55 story to enter 3.0 content.

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1. No need of GC Chocobo, at a certain level you will obtain a land/flying mount (as per 3.0 scenario).
2. New jobs don't follow the (main class/sub-class), they are your ONLY choices as Tank, DPS, or Healer.
3. Not really, New players will start a fresh adventure in Ishgard, but they won't be able to access the ARR content.

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Originally Posted by Kuwaitum

1. No need of GC Chocobo, at a certain level you will obtain a land/flying mount (as per 3.0 scenario).
2. New jobs don't follow the (main class/sub-class), they are your ONLY choices as Tank, DPS, or Healer.
3. Not really, New players will start a fresh adventure in Ishgard, but they won't be able to access the ARR content.

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lol, what?

It's already been stated you have to clear the last mission of 2.55 to access the new expansion content/storyline. Thus, you need to have completed the ARR content. >.>

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Originally Posted by Kuwaitum

1. No need of GC Chocobo, at a certain level you will obtain a land/flying mount (as per 3.0 scenario).
2. New jobs don't follow the (main class/sub-class), they are your ONLY choices as Tank, DPS, or Healer.
3. Not really, New players will start a fresh adventure in Ishgard, but they won't be able to access the ARR content.

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1. At a certain level, in ishgard, most likely after a quest chain. Your point is?
2. I won't bother you because of the syntax error but you still have to realise that Zfz was listing the examples of gating already in the game. And all the jobs now need to be unlocked anyway by leveling 2 other classes.
3. Ehhmmmm. Where did you get this? NOt only does it go against what we know about the plot, but makes no sense whatsoever because (1. the new jobs wont start at level 1, 2. the story is direct continuation of 2.55 and not a fresh adventure, 3. Heavensward is not a standalone expansion that you can play withouth ARR content)

Heavenwards is not a new game...seriously, why do you think it's called an expansion for?
people need to understand that it means it's the continuation of the game we know, not a new game or something like this.

ps: we can argue the whole years about the jobs and area gated behind the completion of the 2.55 quest line, but seriously it's for the better, it give a goal on the long terms for the new player.

what it's amazing it's most of the people talking of the new player are already playing the game. let's see what say the soo called new playr instead to act like you know everything. it's tiring to see people simply coming here whinning for nothing.

the gating of the new class is a good thing, since they are advanced class! they will be probably ask more that the starting class for be played well.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

You have to be level 20 and clear Ifrit story to ride a chocobo.
You have to be level 30 and have the appropriate secondary class to unlock any job.
You have to complete 2.55 story to enter 3.0 content.

It's called progression.

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There are also more unlocks within story progression

you have to finish Stone Vigil storyquest to unlock beastmen quests.
You also have to finish the Ultima Weapon storyquest to unlock the lv 50 dungeons, except Wanderer Palace and Amdapor Keep. To unlock Amdapor Keep you have to finish the GC missions (clear Aurum Vale).
And you have to defeat Ifrit, Titan and Garuda storymode to get their Egis as a summoner.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Imagine new players want to start playing with Heavensward and they can't do anything until they finish all the long quest line from 2.0 to 2.55.

ridiculous.

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Already now in 2.x you can't do everything if you don't do the storyquests. It is nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Kuwaitum

I agree, FFXIV:HW is a new game, the story continues but the game is new.

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2.0 was a new game
3.0 is an expansion to a old game, not a new game.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what it's amazing it's most of the people talking of the new player are already playing the game. let's see what say the soo called new playr instead to act like you know everything. it's tiring to see people simply coming here whinning for nothing.

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Okay, see you in three months when the New Players forum is full of new players complaining that they hit level 50 but they can't access the content they just bought the game on the basis of until they slog through six whole patches worth of old storyline content.

Slavish devotion to making new players run through all the content in strict sequence is a surefire way to make a game inaccessible to new players. Just look at WOW, the previous expansions were only level-gated but it didn't make a damn bit of difference whether you actually did all the quests or not, you could always jump straight into the new expansion as soon as you hit the required level, and with every expansion they made it quicker to level through old zones as a catch-up mechanic. And now they straight-up sell level 90 boosts so new players can skip everything and go straight into the shiny new stuff.

I like the game a lot, and I want to continue playing it for a long time, but MMOs absolutely need a steady influx of new players, and if a game develops a reputation as one that's pointless getting into because you have to catch up on years worth of old content it's going to die.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what it's amazing it's most of the people talking of the new player are already playing the game. let's see what say the soo called new playr instead to act like you know everything. it's tiring to see people simply coming here whinning for nothing.

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First off, Yoshida himself said he wanted to present Heavensward to the players as "one whole, new game". And it's what an expansion is. A continuation of the base game is an extension.

Secondly, I for one am talking for a new player, who doesn't have the game yet (he will get it in June, with the pre-ordered bundle), and as such cannot post on the forums. He did not buy ARR the past year and a half, nor FFXIV, because, go figure, it was a game he did not like. He likes to use Great Swords in MMOs, and as such he waited for a Great Sword class to make an appearance in XIV before bothering to give it a try. Go figure though, SE wants him to first play the game he did not want to buy (ARR) before he can access to a job (DRK) with which he would probably enjoy the game in its entirety (including ARR. He doesn't want to skip the MSQ, but he's upset to not do it as the class he wants, and feels he'll likely rush through it and not enjoy it all that much as whatever class he'll choose for 2.0-2.55).

There are plenty of reasons for people on this thread to express their confusion on this sudden turn of direction of SE to the playerbase service. They range from alts (I wanted to start an Au Ra alt with MAC myself to play along myself and redo 2.0 with him), from people with new player friends, to people who are just concerned about the direction of future expansions.
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Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone who calls "whiny" or "hater" whoever dares but to point at any thing in the game...

To criticize a product is a sign of care for it, not of hatred. This is why we don't "go play something else" or shut up and "quit whining". It's not whining, it's comprehensible criticism. To blindly accept everything the developers do and never stop to question their choices or ideas, and instead get defensive and angry towards those who do, is nothing short of being an ignorant fanboy/fangirl that will eat anything their Idol serves them without even looking at its contents.

The first sign of appreciation towards something is taking the time to examine it to notice pros and cons, and nothing is flawless. If SE didn't want people to "complain" on this thread they would've closed it long ago with many others. They probably appreciate the feedback and are interested in seeing the opinions even on their marketing choices with the expansion. So please, can we stop insulting the OP and other concerned people with names such as "whiny" and so on?

I actually think it's really cool that SE decided to cater to their pre-existing playerbase than create content specifically for potential players who might only be interested in what HW has to offer than the game as a whole. As a paying subscriber, I think it's reassuring that they were looking at us when they made this new content. Because we're the ones who will get most out of this expansion.

What bothers me is that ARR/2.0 is not automatically bundled with HW/3.0. I don't mind that new players have to start at lv1 and go through 2.0 content first, the game is not that long anyway if you don't count all the side quests and random things you could do outside of story, but it would be really confusing if a new player picks up HW thinking he could play the game with that, not realizing he needed to get ARR first. I guess it's fine if the package explicitly says it's an expansion and that it would require getting ARR.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Just look at WOW, the previous expansions were only level-gated but it didn't make a damn bit of difference whether you actually did all the quests or not, you could always jump straight into the new expansion as soon as you hit the required level

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In WoWs most popular expansion (TBC), pretty much everything was locked behind something.
Reputation, quests, more quests for raiding, etc. As well as equipment requirements. (had to farm heroics for that)

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

Since there are none of the current ones I enjoy I was going to give Machinist a go. With that I would have liked to actually have fun and feel cool doing the storyline and considering how much of the storyline that is actually just go fetch and run around wasting your time earning some exp would have been nice too. As it is I would have to go on a job that is already max to earn no exp and play on a job I don't enjoy just to be able to get to the point where I can get a job I want to try.

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Few people will be in your case, having a level 50 character for a very long time and having not advanced the main story line. A lot of content needs you to have ended the main story line (Praetorium), some trials belong to the main story line in more advanced places, some dungeons too. No Trials roulette, no expert roulette (so the best way to get poetic tomes is lost). There are many reasons to go advancing the story as it goes appearing, most people do it.

Anyway the fact that new jobs require the player to complete the main story up to 2.55 does not seem so important. A new player will have to start from level 1 in one of the classes, level up to 30, etc. It seems unlikely that at level 30 they would change classes whithout knowing the first one yet.

It could have been otherwise, be able to start from level 1 in any class (rogue included), but it will not be like that, it seems.

When the expansion arrives many people will be divided between advancing the story line and leveling their main job or jobs to 60 soon, getting better gear, learning the new actions and adapting their play to them, accessing the new raids etc., and leveling a new job, learning to use it and eventually using it in the new end-game content when they arrive to it.

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story?

Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one. Why don't people realise that this game is not WoW, WoW has never done anything like this "gating" but then WoW has never had a proper storyline. This is the first MMORPG I know that has story linking it with the expansion, the other story linking WoW with its' expansions was lore from previous games and novels.

EDIT: the reason I don't mention other MMOs is because I am not certain of them. I cannot speak of GW and I stopped playing SWTOR well before any expansion was released(there was no hint of a grand overarching storyline in that game though).

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Originally Posted by Calis

What bothers me is that ARR/2.0 is not automatically bundled with HW/3.0. I don't mind that new players have to start at lv1 and go through 2.0 content first, the game is not that long anyway if you don't count all the side quests and random things you could do outside of story, but it would be really confusing if a new player picks up HW thinking he could play the game with that, not realizing he needed to get ARR first. I guess it's fine if the package explicitly says it's an expansion and that it would require getting ARR.

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I'm sure it will be written on the backside of the box

honestly, i always assumed it would be this way anyway. Especially since this allows them to reference 2.55 events in the job quests for the new jobs. it also makes sense for why they're handled differently from the basic classes/jobstones.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story? Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one.

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FFXI did. The original "main scenario" in XI culminated with the final cutscene of Dynamis-Xarcabard, a difficult large scale raid. Each nation in FFXI had its own main scenario quest, and each expansion had a separate story. HOWEVER! The only requirement to start the expansion content (including new jobs) was purchasing the content and having a character at level 30. (You could actually enter some of the zones earlier than that by completing a quest that was intended for level 30s early.) A level 99 character who completed the expansions saved the world a different way each time.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Are people upset because this is the first MMORPG to actually have a main storyline and they don't understand why they are suppose to follow along the story?

Every other MMORPG has never had an overarching story, this is the first one. Why don't people realise that this game is not WoW, WoW has never done anything like this "gating" but then WoW has never had a proper storyline. This is the first MMORPG I know that has story linking it with the expansion, the other story linking WoW with its' expansions was lore from previous games and novels.

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Plenty of other MMOs have an overarching story (yes, even WOW). However they also appreciate that a significant number of players don't give a crap about the story, and would rather the NPCs just shut up and tell them how many space moose they need to kill for the next quest, and that from a purely gameplay perspective it's horrible design to force people to do excessive amounts of story quests, because when they're put up as an obstacle to content people will resent them and see them as a chore. MMO is probably the worst genre to try and make story-oriented because so many players are only interested in having a conveyor belt of shiny loot pinatas to have a whack at.

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Originally Posted by Calis

I actually think it's really cool that SE decided to cater to their pre-existing playerbase than create content specifically for potential players who might only be interested in what HW has to offer than the game as a whole. As a paying subscriber, I think it's reassuring that they were looking at us when they made this new content. Because we're the ones who will get most out of this expansion.

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You shouldn't think that it's cool. Anyone who seriously cares about this game and wants it to succeed should be in favor of decisions that ENCOURAGE new players to join, not turn them away. A successful MMO is one that brings in a consistent supply of new players, not at the EXPENSE of existing players, but in addition to supporting existing players.

An expansion should have a mixture of things that appeal to old players AND new. The new jobs are probably the biggest "shiny" the expansion has to offer, the most important attactor for new players. They do not yet know anything about the story, so adverts like "Continue the story into Ishgard with the Dragonsong War!" aren't going to mean much to them. When deciding whether or not to buy the expansion, they're going to react to things like, "Play as the new Au Ra race!" ("Dragon people? Awesome, I'm SO picking this game up!") or "Choose from three exciting new jobs!" ("Dark Knight? I'm totally going to play like I'm Batman with a greatsword, this is so cool!")

Right now, the ability to play as an Au Ra is the only attractor left to the expansion, and I'm not convinced that THAT might not end up gated as well. This is not a good plan, if SE wants to sell the expansion to new players - and if they don't want to sell the expansion to new players, what on earth is wrong with them? Do they hate making money hand over fist, or something?

As a player invested in this game that wants to see it continue to flourish, I very much disagree with the decision to gate the "shiny" bits along with the storyline bits. There are many, MANY ways that they could have made the shinies accessable (Astrologian guild based in the Observatorium is a good example) while still gating a lot of the rest of the content. "Come for the Dark Knight, stay for the story!"

I am BY NO MEANS suggesting that players should be allowed to "bypass" the main scenario and still enjoy everything that Heavensward has to offer. Heavensward continues the storyline, and it makes no sense to start a book in the middle. I get that and respect that. There's no reason, though, that getting to the middle of the book should be necessary before you can do ANYTHING AT ALL in the new expansion. New players should be encouraged to explore the new content, but for new players who bought the expansion because, hey, it'd be SO AWESOME to play the game through as a gun-slingin' machinist, the current situation is a kick in the teeth, one that may discourage them from buying the game, or cause them to unsubscribe once they understand how daunting the main scenario is.

And the main scenario IS daunting. For all the players insisting, "Oh, you can play all the way though in four days, tops," I call bull. Perhaps if you devoted every waking moment to the game, and clicked through every cutscene without reading, you might be able to pull something like that off, but most are only able to play a few hours per day, and not everyone is going to want to power through the story when they can, you know, appreciate it and enjoy it. On top of that, they might want to explore the world, try out crafting, so on and so forth. There's more to the game than main scenario - but if they want to enjoy the game as the shiny job they saw on the box, that's what they're stuck with.

Heavensward, as it stands, is decidedly newbie-unfriendly. It could have been made newbie-friendly with SO little effort, that it boggles the mind that SE has decided on the path that it has.

Heck, they could even have thrown open the gates to Ishgard with only a token effort, all while STILL protecting the lore of the game! Take as an example, Altepa Desert in Final Fantasy XI. This was a zone introduced by the Rise of the Zilart expansion. Initially, the only way to access it is through a gate in the starter town of Bastok. If you don't have the expansion, the guard at that gate tells you, "It's too dangerous to go beyond this gate." If you DO have the expansion, the guard instead says, "It's dangerous beyond this gate, but adventurers are being given special dispensation. Would you like to go through?" The same COULD have been done for Heavensward: "Outsiders are forbidden to enter Ishgard!" upon purchose of the expansion changes to, "Until recently, outsiders were forbidden from entering Ishgard, but in these dire times the decision has been made to allow adventurers to assist in the war with the dragons. You may pass, and godspeed!"

You, the Adventurer, are special, after all - many rules and customs in the game don't apply to you! There might not be much you can DO in Ishgard as a lowbie, and there'll be a paucity of quests until you get through the Main Scenario, but you'll be able to see the areas, unlock the jobs, possibly unlock a few of the new dungeons - maybe even unlock Alexander, as there's no real reason that has to be tied to the Main Scenario. This COULD have been - but no. Everything is gated behind 30+ hours of work. This may have been the decision made, but just as was the case with Death Knight in WoW, I believe the developers will come to realize that it was a mistake, and one they won't repeat in the future.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Plenty of other MMOs have an overarching story (yes, even WOW).

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Depends when you started playing, in the beginning there is no story. Maybe for Wrath of the Lich King and the latest expansions.

I'm sure this has been said ,but I skipped a lot of pages of crying,

The story doesn't take long at all. Seriously. My roommate has had the game for around a month, just under, and just hit lvl 50 today. And I've only helped her with like 2 dungeons, she's been breezing through like nothing. So there's no excuse to why someone shouldn't be able to finish story.

I have a 2nd character that I'm almost to 40 with because I want her as my war/drk character, and I started her about 2 weeks ago. I'm gonna finish the Story, again, to do it. And it's really easy

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

What facts am I ignoring? You clearly don't understand the purpose of a clarification to an original statement.

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You seem to be paying sufficient attention to the facts that matter.

Fact: Ishgard cannot be accessed without clearing Steps of Faith, which has several prerequisites.

Fact: The new jobs are accessed upon entering Ishgard

Fact: Owning Heavensward will grant immediate access to Ishgard content. No 'Heavensward Main Questline' is necessary to clear in order to proceed to Ishgard.

Therefore: 'ARR Main Questline' is a prerequisite to enter Ishgard, and 'Heavensward Main Questline' is not.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

A successful MMO is one that brings in a consistent supply of new players, not at the EXPENSE of existing players, but in addition to supporting existing players.

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This is correct, but for the wrong agenda. NEW players. Who have a rite of passage to access exclusive content. Gating is a very important function to keep population spread out and healthy.

Maybe it is a matter of interpreting whether or not access to becoming the new jobs is, like the old jobs, considered a 'job quest'. The article states that, "All of the job quests related to the new jobs will be in Ishgard as well, so the condition to access those will be the same". Now, it could be that the quests to progress the jobs and skills and such are gated behind the main story, but perhaps initially getting the job may be different than what it was in 2.0? Maybe they are changing something with job acquisition with these new jobs that don't have base classes that makes them attainable somehow without a job quest? That's the only way I could interpret what was said and somehow see the new jobs available to everyone without doing the main story.

*This reminds me of how so many people wanted NIN locked behind the main story and Yugiri plotline - we know how that ended up*

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Fact: Ishgard cannot be accessed without clearing Steps of Faith, which has several prerequisites.

Fact: The new jobs are accessed upon entering Ishgard

Fact: Owning Heavensward will grant immediate access to Ishgard content. No 'Heavensward Main Questline' is necessary to clear in order to proceed to Ishgard.

Therefore: 'ARR Main Questline' is a prerequisite to enter Ishgard, and 'Heavensward Main Questline' is not.

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Why are you trying to start an argument over things I never even said? I'm not sure if you are responding to another individual and you just got confused in your quest to score internet points, but I've never challenged any of those facts. In fact, the individual that told me I was ignoring facts, is the one doubting what you pointed out.

What do ppl not understand about the word "expansion"? Easier still... How SE does expansions... Its content appended to previous content... SE has to keep the old content relevant or else it would never be touched again.

The reality is, ppl have had well over a year to catch up/invest in the game yet they didn't for their own various reasons... That's not everyone else's problem, the game has to move forward and reward ppl who HAVE been playing for continuing to play. Its not rocket science

Do things in such a way that new players are benefited at the expense of established players: Established players complain

Do things in such a way that established players are benefited at the expense of new players: Established players complain

Really guys?

Something that a lot of people in this discussion seem to be missing is that it's not necessary to ride the progression train to end game all the time. There are a lot of players who play for fun, and enjoy running the older content. Those are the players who you actually *want* new players to meet and be helped by, because they are effectively the Eorzean welcome wagon. It's a positive thing that such players are not absolutely focused on personal progression and end-game. Such players appear to be more friendly and community minded - because they can spend the time helping others, rather than grinding gear for he latest BiS set - and will provide a positive experience for new players seeking to progress through the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Why are you trying to start an argument over things I never even said? I'm not sure if you are responding to another individual and you just got confused in your quest to score internet points, but I've never challenged any of those facts. In fact, the individual that told me I was ignoring facts, is the one doubting what you pointed out.

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Because I am not. I was bulleting the points you were making, supporting your argument. lol.

Its about the carrot on the stick... You take away the carrots and no one cares to follow anymore. SE is putting more incentive in the game to keep previous content as a requirement. Otherwise why go to old content anymore? The new content will no doubt require veteran players to backtrack and help out newer ppl in terms of progression. Take the relic quest for an example. Is it fair a lvl 50 has to do low lvl dungeons a 1000 times under lvl sync? Nope. Is it a smart business decision by SE? Yes... It keeps cohesion between your two polars of newer players and end game... Giving the newer players an expectation thus continuing sales... Marketing

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

This is correct, but for the wrong agenda. NEW players. Who have a rite of passage to access exclusive content. Gating is a very important function to keep population spread out and healthy.

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An expansion which heavily gates ALL of its content, fails to bring in new players (or turns away the ones who purchased it by accident), and is therefore poorly implemented. I never argued that there should not be gated content. I am arguing that some of the content - particularly, the flashy, attractive bits that would appeal to people who know little or nothing about the game - needs to be left ungated, or minimally gated.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Do things in such a way that new players are benefited at the expense of established players: Established players complain

Do things in such a way that established players are benefited at the expense of new players: Established players complain

Really guys?

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This might be because... the set of established players is composed of different people? And different people don't always have the same opinions? This is really surprising to you?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

An expansion which heavily gates ALL of its content, fails to bring in new players (or turns away the ones who purchased it by accident), and is therefore poorly implemented.

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I am quite confident that "ALL" is largely inaccurate.

Yes, jobs are found in Ishgard.
Yes, main scenario is found in ishgard.

Is the Au Ra race locked behind Ishgard?
Is Coerthas western Highlands locked behind Ishgard?
Is Dravania locked behind Ishgard?
Are FC/personal airships locked behind Ishgard?
Is The Sea of Clouds locked behind Ishgard?
Is The Churning Mists locked behind Ishgard?
Is Alexander locked behind Ishgard?

Just because the majority of they have shared with us is presently perceived as "gated" is a far cry from presuming that everything is.

I am 50, completely done with all the main story like may on here. What I am mostly reading is people in the same bracket saying it is fine to gate and all that, Or "it is easy to catch up stop whining." Frankly that is a pretty horrible mindset. I would like to see a new player right now (not level 50, and has not completed the Main story) tell us that they are okay with paying for an expansion that they really can not use the day they buy it. That would make zero economic sense. Nor would frankly be a smart way to grow your player base to produce new content that a person that might be interested in trying to game thanks to the press, that they can not access.

If they let someone that buys the main game and expansion be allowed to choose to play one of the new classes from day one, how will that "hurt" us? It doesn't, not in the least bit. We are not affected either way. The Same could be said for the WoW players with mist of pandaria (monk class there was open to new players day one). You can make the argument that WoW in Lich king set the bar for gated classes (death knight required you to have a level 50 toon to play it), but their devs stated later this was a bad idea and would not repeat it. When Anarchy Online pushed out two new classes (keeper and shade) they made them available with the purchase of the expansion.

But in the end it is up the company and not us to decide how they want to sell and market the expansion.